From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #752 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Friday, 13 December 1996 Volume 05 : Number 752 In this issue: Request for Timed Digests Picture of the skunk Computer Models Re: Picture of the skunk Re[2]: Picture of the skunk USCG C-130s -- Corrections Skunk Works Digest 750a See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: georgek@pmihwy.com (George R. Kasica) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 17:53:50 GMT Subject: Request for Timed Digests Hello: First, sorry for the small digest. We were testing out the ability to create a digest on-demand or by schedule as requested by several users. Here's the GOOD NEWS: YES, we can do it. YES, its realty easy to do. NOW FOR THE BAD NEWS: Normally the list will generate an archive when the volume here is at 30,000 bytes (yes, I implemented a slightly smaller size it used to be 40K, for Mac users who need a little smaller file for easy reading). By going with a TIMED digest for say every other day or something, we run the risk of what you just got...a very small digest since one may just have been created a few hours earlier based on the size limit. OR We can set the size limit REALLY HUGE (say 500MB) and just go with the every 2 day or 1 day or whatever schedule and it may or may not be 30K bytes...could be bigger could be smaller there's no way to tell. I guess if you're looking for MY opinion from a technical side: BEST OPTION: Stay with it as is at 30K bytes auto generated. SECOND OPTION: The REALLY BIG option, and run it once a day to keep the size smaller hopefully. LAST OPTION: Leave it at 30K and run it on a schedule...I think that will cause all sizes of digests to be created and also alot more mail traffic for them to be mailed out. There it is, those are the choices. Send me DIRECT e-mail and let me know what you think. I'd like list input on this one so we can try to form a consensus. Lets say I'll tally votes from now (about 1200 CST Friday 13 Dec 1996) until next Friday 20 Dec 1996 @ 1200 CST) Whichever option gets the most votes gets to be implemented. And EVERYONE please remember, If it doesn't seem to work out after we do it, we can ALWAYS just change it again, its not cut in stone. Thanks for your time, George R. Kasica skunk-works-owner@pmihwy.com georgek@pmihwy.com or georgek@netwrx1.com ------------------------------ From: Daniel Adam Singer Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:29:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Picture of the skunk In Ben Rich's book about his days at the Skunk Works, he mentioned that the day after Kelly died, Lockheed ran a full page ad in the LA Times showing the "Skunk Works skunk with a single tear rolling down his cheek." According to the book, the ad should have been placed on December 23, 1990. I checked the library and found that edition of the paper but was unable to find the ad. Does anybody know where this picture can be found? Thanks, Dan Singer University of Michigan Aerospace Engineering Department ------------------------------ From: Daniel Adam Singer Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:36:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Computer Models I know that quite a few of you are looking for accurate dxf models of various airplanes. I think that somone already mentioned this, but Viewport DataLabs has quite a few different 3D Studio and dxf models. I am not sure how good they are but I thought that I would pass along their URL. http://avalon1.viewpoint.com/cgi-bin/nav.pl?key=o&site=vp Hope this helps, Dan Singer ------------------------------ From: blackbird@telis.org (Jon Price (PJ)) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:59:17 GMT Subject: Re: Picture of the skunk On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:29:31 -0500 (EST), you wrote: I am looking at the page. Los Angeles Times, Thursday, December 27, 1990, page A22. Full page with a very sad little skunk with a tear in his eye, and the words "So Long Kelly" Clarence L. (Kelly) Johnson 1910-1990 (Lockheed Logo) Brought a tear to my eye when I saw it. If you are unable to find a copy of it, e-mail me and I would be happy to copy it and get it to you via snail mail. Happy Holidays! >> In Ben Rich's book about his days at the Skunk Works, he=20 >>mentioned that the day after Kelly died, Lockheed ran a full page ad in= =20 >>the LA Times showing the "Skunk Works skunk with a single tear rolling=20 >>down his cheek." >> According to the book, the ad should have been placed on December=20 >>23, 1990. I checked the library and found that edition of the paper = but=20 >>was unable to find the ad. Does anybody know where this picture can be= =20 >>found? =20 >> >> >>Thanks, >>Dan Singer >> >>University of Michigan >>Aerospace Engineering Department >> - -- ************************************************** Jon Price If only Naval Aviators flew SR-71's, I'd be happy. Just imagine. "O.K. 3 wire Blackbird"! A PROUD member of the Tailhook Association. I am NOT known for being politically correct. *************************************************** ------------------------------ From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:19:50 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Picture of the skunk Can anybody think of a way that we could get that into some type of image file that could be e-mailed? That would sure be a great image to have for the collection. Greg Weigold Chapin, SC gregweigold@pmsc.com ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Picture of the skunk Author: blackbird@telis.org (Jon Price (PJ)) at Internet Date: 12/13/96 9:59 PM On Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:29:31 -0500 (EST), you wrote: I am looking at the page. Los Angeles Times, Thursday, December 27, 1990, page A22. Full page with a very sad little skunk with a tear in his eye, and the words "So Long Kelly" Clarence L. (Kelly) Johnson 1910-1990 (Lockheed Logo) Brought a tear to my eye when I saw it. If you are unable to find a copy of it, e-mail me and I would be happy to copy it and get it to you via snail mail. Happy Holidays! >> In Ben Rich's book about his days at the Skunk Works, he >>mentioned that the day after Kelly died, Lockheed ran a full page ad in >>the LA Times showing the "Skunk Works skunk with a single tear rolling >>down his cheek." >> According to the book, the ad should have been placed on December >>23, 1990. I checked the library and found that edition of the paper but >>was unable to find the ad. Does anybody know where this picture can be >>found? >> >> >>Thanks, >>Dan Singer >> >>University of Michigan >>Aerospace Engineering Department >> - -- ************************************************** Jon Price If only Naval Aviators flew SR-71's, I'd be happy. Just imagine. "O.K. 3 wire Blackbird"! A PROUD member of the Tailhook Association. I am NOT known for being politically correct. *************************************************** ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:41:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: USCG C-130s -- Corrections Thanks to Tom Robison and everyone else, who sent me updates and corrections on the USCG C-130 list. The c/n and FY-serials of the HC-130Hs with USCG serials '1600' - '1603' got mixed up (reversed), because I trusted the list in Rene J. Francillon's "Lockheed Aircraft since 1918" book over the list in John M. Andrade's "U.S. Military Designations and Serials since 1909" book. Here are the corrected lists again (sorted by c/n): =================================================== Sequen. USCG and USAF Lockheed USAF USCG No. Designation(s) Model c/n FY-Serial Serial 1 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3529 58-5396 1339 * 2 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3533 58-5397 1340 * 3 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3542 58-6973 1341 * 4 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3548 58-6974 1342 * 5 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3594 60-0311 1344 * 6 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3595 60-0312 1345 * 7 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3638 61-2081 1346 * 8 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3641 61-2082 1347 * 9 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3650 61-2083 1348 * 10 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282B-2B 3745 62-3753 1349 * 11 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282B-2B 3763 62-3754 1350 * 12 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282B-2B 3773 62-3755 1351 * 1 EC-130E- -LM, HC-130E 382-4B 4158 66-4299 1414 * 1 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4255 67-7183 1452 *1 2 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4260 67-7184 1453 2 3 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4265 67-7185 1454 *3 4 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4501 72-1300 1500 5 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4507 72-1301 1501 6 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4513 72-1302 1502 7 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4528 73-0844 1503 8 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4529 73-0845 1504 9 HC-130H- -LM 382C-70D 4757 77-0317 1600 *4 10 HC-130H- -LM 382C-70D 4760 77-0318 1601 11 HC-130H- -LM 382C-70D 4762 77-0319 1602 12 HC-130H- -LM 382C-70D 4764 77-0320 1603 13 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-70D 4931 ..-.... 1790 14 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-22E 4947 ..-.... 1700 15 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-37E 4958 ..-.... 1701 16 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-37E 4966 ..-.... 1702 17 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-37E 4967 ..-.... 1703 18 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-37E 4969 ..-.... 1704 19 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-50E 4993 ..-.... 1705 20 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-50E 4996 ..-.... 1706 21 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-50E 4999 ..-.... 1707 22 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-50E 5002 ..-.... 1708 23 HC-130H-7-LM 382C-50E 5005 ..-.... 1709 24 HC-130H- -LM 382C-76E 5023 ..-.... 1716 25 HC-130H- -LM 382C-57E 5028 ..-.... 1710 26 HC-130H- -LM 382C-61E 5031 ..-.... 1711 27 HC-130H- -LM 382C-61E 5033 ..-.... 1712 28 HC-130H- -LM 382C-61E 5034 ..-.... 1713 29 HC-130H- -LM 382C-57E 5035 ..-.... 1714 30 HC-130H- -LM 382C-64E 5037 ..-.... 1715 31 HC-130H- -LM 382C-79E 5104 ..-.... 1717 32 HC-130H- -LM 382C-79E 5106 ..-.... 1718 33 HC-130H- -LM 382C-79E 5107 ..-.... 1719 34 HC-130H- -LM 382C-84E 5120 ..-.... 1720 35 HC-130H-360-LM, EC-130V, NC-130H 382C-84E 5121 87-0157 1721 5 Notes: ====== The '*' at the end of a line means, that the aircraft is now out of service. All the HC-130B, the HC-130E, and two of the HC-130H have been scrapped or await scrapping at the AMARC, Davis-Monthan AFB, AZ. 1) HC-130H, USCG '1452' -- this is the aircraft that was attacked by Peruvian Su-22's on April 24, 1992. The aircraft was repaired, but is now retired and stored at the AMARC. 2) HC-130H, USCG '1453' -- this is the 1000th Production Hercules, and is still active. Lockkeed Martin may have an option to buy it back when the USCG is done with it. 3) HC-130H, USCG '1454' -- this aircraft has been scrapped at the AMARC as of November 1995. 4) HC-130H, USCG '1600' -- this aircraft crashed at Attu, the Aleutian Islands, on July 30, 1982. It is the only one lost due to an accident. 5) The ex EV-130V has been redesignated NC-130H, and is apparently now painted grey over all, but still without markings. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ From: "George R. Kasica" Date: Fri, 13 Dec 1996 18:55:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: Skunk Works Digest 750a Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 12 December 1996 Volume 05 : Number 750a In this issue: CG C-130 Re: Appology Re: EG&G - who owns it? Just a few more things.. Re: CG C-130 Re: skunk-works-digest V5 #742 Re: CG C-130 [none] [none] Re: Interesting week doing research ... C-130 and P-3 AWACS Re: Appology (unsubscribe attempts) Re: It was Land, not Edgerton Digest size suggestion Signing Ceremony to Initiate Development of Revolutionary Aircraft Engines Re: Gray F-117 Re: skunk-works-digest V5 #742 unsubscibe skunk-works Re: Gray F-117 EC-130V and other USCG/USCS C-130/E-2/P-3 tests Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #736 Re: Gray F-117 Questions/Problems/the Infamous Mr. Witting Re: Appology (unsubscribe attempts) Re: tests See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Anderson, Rick" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 15:00:00 -0800 Subject: CG C-130 Greg Fieser wrote: >Yes, there are P-3/AWACS out there, but I don't know who did the mods. >However, I have seen photos of the C-130/AWACS combo in USCG livery. At the recent Edwards AFB open house they had a C-130 with the radome on top. And although it appeared to be more or less painted in the Coast Guard's red and white scheme, it carried no name and/or number markings. I'd be interested in knowing who really operates it. This is Rick Anderson and thats a personal opinion. - ------------------------------ From: "Frank Markus" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:45:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Appology I am not certain. Sorry, - ---------- >From: TomHun8054@aol.com >Frank - >Can you tell me how I might remove myself from the mailing list? I will be >losing this email address soon. >Many Thanks, Tom - ------------------------------ From: Wayne Busse Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:33:57 -0600 Subject: Re: EG&G - who owns it? Frank Markus wrote: >I just tried to find a stock symbol for EG&G using the searcher on the >quote.com web page. No joy. Does anyone know what the symbol is and the >exchange on which EG&G is listed? Frankly, it sounds like a very >interesting company that is doing interesting work in growing areas. Hi Frank EG&G is listed on the NYSE, as EGG, and closed Monday @ 19 7/8. Wayne http://www.sky.net/~wings - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:39:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Just a few more things.. After most of this is cleared up, now, I believe only 3 other problems are left to resolve, (you may ignore my suggestions for solutions, because I don't know anything about majordomo programs, though): * remove the "Reply to: skunk-works@pmihwy.com" from the posts, which are sent out by the list (and by the digest), which might stop those annoying ping-pong effects when mails are returned (for whatever reason); * check your program (or maybe the list?) for double entries -- it seems that several posts are sent out two or three times (at least I have received identical copies of several posts, which are also in the digests); * the Digests are somehow out of sync.: - two different digests with the number 5-736 were sent out, the one from pmihwy.com containing only test messages, while the one from orst.edu had all the Skunk Works posts; - the other pmihwy-digests (from 5-737 through 5-748) are containing also only test messages and copies of re-sent posts; - the pmihwy-digest 5-749 contains a couple of genuine Skunk Works posts; - the pmihwy-digest 5-750 was the first completely correct digest with index and everything -- BRAVO!; - I also currently have 12 posts from the orst.edu-list, which should either be sent as orst.edu-digest 5-737 (or will not be sent as digest at all), I presume; Call me a typical German or blame it on my sign (Virgo) or whatever -- I just like it when things are cleaned up and 'ordentlich'. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- - ------------------------------ From: "Randal L. Marbury" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:54:42 -0600 Subject: Re: CG C-130 Anderson, Rick wrote: >Greg Fieser wrote: >>Yes, there are P-3/AWACS out there, but I don't know who did the mods. >>However, I have seen photos of the C-130/AWACS combo in USCG livery. >At the recent Edwards AFB open house they had a C-130 with the radome on >top. And although it appeared to be more or less painted in the Coast >Guard's red and white scheme, it carried no name and/or number markings. >I'd be interested in knowing who really operates it. >This is Rick Anderson and thats a personal opinion. It may have been bailed back to Lock-Mart since they are (rumor has it) pushing to capitalize on the "AWACS" capabilities in a new issue for foreign sales, probably based on the "J" model. Hopefully the avionics will be updated as well, since the "V" model was a cross-deck of some (very effective for the intended mission, but...) out-dated, off-the-shelf--*not* AWACS, BTW--equipment. - -- Randal Marbury AeroSpace Technical Research Associates Watauga, TX, USA http://ASTRA.home.ml.org ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ + "No good deed ever goes unpunished." + + -Unknown + ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ - ------------------------------ From: "Earl Needham, KD5XB, in Clovis, NM" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 17:06:49 -0800 Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V5 #742 George, thanks for your work. If it makes any difference, I'm a bit irritated at the chatter, too. Your work and efforts don't deserve to be griped at this way. Earl Needham Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Pi Chi '76 - ------------------------------ From: FSalles@trip.com.br (Felipe Salles) Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:38:59 -0700 Subject: Re: CG C-130 Randal L. Marbury wrote: >Anderson, Rick wrote: >>Greg Fieser wrote: >>>Yes, there are P-3/AWACS out there, but I don't know who did the mods. >>>However, I have seen photos of the C-130/AWACS combo in USCG livery. >>At the recent Edwards AFB open house they had a C-130 with the radome on >>top. And although it appeared to be more or less painted in the Coast >>Guard's red and white scheme, it carried no name and/or number markings. If memory serves me: Indonesia currently uses modified Boeing 737-200's for maritime patrol duties. This is a very unique plane painted in their national colors (CG red and white!) their requirements were so specific that years ago Boeing even considered a *four* engined 737 version just for them! These 737's should be getting old by now. >>I'd be interested in knowing who really operates it. Lock-Mart sounds plausible... Felipe Salles - ------------------------------ From: "Edward Brosz" Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:55:15 -0500 Subject: [none] unsubscibe skunk-works - ------------------------------ From: jrittman@postoffice.newnham.utas.edu.au (Jason) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:43:00 +1100 Subject: [none] unsubscibe skunk-works - ------------------------------ From: Dan Zinngrabe Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:15:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Interesting week doing research ... >>... finally managed to track down a few Journal of >>Propulsion and Power articles dealing with the Pulse Detonation Wave Engine >>concept (by Eidelman, Et. al.). >Be sure Dan that you check out the brand new AIAA book I posted info about >last week: "Developments in High-Speed-Vehicle Propulsion Systems". >There are two PDE papers in there that either talk about alternative PDE >configurations compared to Eidelman, Et. al., or extend the work of >Eidelman, Et. al. >For example, there is a paper out of Rocketdyne that extends the CFD >work that Eidelman, Et. al at SAIC did. Basically the Rocketdyne dudes >think that with a good CFD tool to study whether PDE's can actually >be built to perform as theoretically possible, that airbreathing mode >Isp could be around 3000 and rocket mode would be sqrt(lambda) (lambda >is ratio of specific heats) better than an existing rocket Isp. With >a high temp lambda of 1.1 to 1.2 this translates into a 5-10% improvement >over existing rocket Isp, which is a rocket mode Isp of around 500 !!!! >A single cycle engine with rocket mode Isp of 500, and airbreathing mode Isp >of 3000, that is lighter and simpler than existing rockets, would OWN >space!!!! >Again, this is a research paper and not a real chunk of iron, but it's >interesting. >Larry I actually looked for it, as well as the "S3 concept" paper mentioned earlier in the list. Several other titles in the new AIAA catalog were at UMCP, but not "Developments in High-Speed-Vehicle Propulsion Systems" (several of the detonation/explosion/combustion series were there- alas, no papers on PDEs in any of them, just fairly boring discussions of deflagration, etc.). Is that 500 ISP vacuum? Hydrogen/O2 I'd assume from what you said..... Ever see a Lockheed thermal management study for hypersonic aircraft done for the Navy? They explored a "designer" fuel (the name of which I can't recall- MCH?) which under heat and/or catalytic reation breaks down into hydrogen and toluene- which would be a PERFECT PDE fuel- hydrogen for obvious reasons, and toluene for increased detonation velocity and thus high frequencies and a cooler running engine for a given thrust. Very interesting. I'm going to try and order "Developments in High-Speed-Vehicle Propulsion Systems" as well as abunch of AIAA papers on Boeing's TSTO "Beta" and "Beta II" studies and PDEs. I've got a rather long list of stuff, so I'm trying to figure out if getting it through NASA or AIAA is cheaper. Dan Z - ------------------------------ From: Dan Zinngrabe Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:07:00 -0500 Subject: C-130 and P-3 AWACS Customs operated several Lockheed-modified P-3s with radomes for drug interdiction at a number of locations, but in the early '90s they were retired because they became too expensive to operate :( Since then I've worked with a few Customs people who've told me they were a sorely missed asset. USCG used AWACS C-130s for drug interdiction as well as remote sensing, etc. I beleive these too have been retired, though I know at least one is flying test work in CA. Both of these aircraft types are being marketed by LockMart for various AWACS programs now on the table as alternatives to E-3, etc. aircraft for use by other countries such as Australia (I think). Dan Z - ------------------------------ From: Joe Vincent Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:18:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Appology (unsubscribe attempts) Maudib wrote: >TomHun8054@aol.com wrote: >>Frank - >>Can you tell me how I might remove myself from the mailing list? I will be >>losing this email address soon. >>Many Thanks, Tom >Send a message to skunk-works@pmihwy.com. Do put a subject and in the >body of the message type: >unsubscibe skunk-works It seems like when the list was at orst.edu all subscribe/unsubscribe commands were sent to majordomo@mail.orst.edu. not skunk-works. Try majordomo@pmihwy.com as the address element. Sending it to skunk-works@pmihwy.com only POSTS a message to the list. - -- Joe Vincent YGBSM! (jvincent@netten.net) - ------------------------------ From: Joe Vincent Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:05:51 +0000 Subject: Re: It was Land, not Edgerton patrick wrote: >I posted several days ago that I thought Dr. Edgerton of EG & G was SNIP >But I can tell you what color an F-117 is. >patrick cullumber Which F-117 is that? The black ones, the gray ones, or the three color camouflage one? - -- Joe Vincent YGBSM! (jvincent@netten.net) - ------------------------------ From: ConsLaw@aol.com Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 00:24:03 -0500 Subject: Digest size suggestion While there are administrative changes going on with the list & digest, I'd like to make a suggestion. If the size of the Digest can be set, I would suggest that the size be just under 32k. I say this for the selfish reason that I receive the digest as a .txt file which automatically gets opened up by simpletext on my Mac. Simpletext can't open files larger than 32k, so I can't open the document by doubleclicking on the document icon, I have to launch my word processor then hunt down the file then open it. In other words, the computer is smart enough to choose which application to open the file, but not smart enough to know that it is too large for simpletext. I tried deleting all copies of simpletext from my system so my word processor would be the default for opening the document, only to find that every time I installed new software, it either added a new copy of Simpletext, or it was a pain in the neck to open the readme file. Another problem with larger digest files is a lag time when the news is slow. This would only marginally be improved by a slight decrease in file size. Does anyone second my suggestion? Steve Hofer Conslaw@aol.com - ------------------------------ From: phraesius@rfhsm.ac.uk (gilbert blythe) Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:07:00 -0800 Subject: Signing Ceremony to Initiate Development of Revolutionary Aircraft Engines >From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov >Dwayne Brown >Headquarters, Washington, DC December 10, 1996 >(Phone: 202/358-1726) >Sender: owner-press-release >Precedence: bulk >Lori Rachul >Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, OH >(Phone: 216/433-8806) >NOTE TO EDITORS: N96-80 >SIGNING CEREMONY TO INITIATE DEVELOPMENT >OF REVOLUTIONARY AIRCRAFT ENGINES >The development of revolutionary aircraft engines and >the huge potential for the U.S. general aviation industry >will be the focus of a signing ceremony and media >availability next week. NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin >will welcome Members of Congress, government officials and >aviation industry executives to the ceremony at 2 p.m. EST, >Monday Dec. 16, in the NASA Headquarters auditorium, 300 E >Street SW, Washington, DC. >Two companies, Williams International, Walled Lake, MI, >and Teledyne Continental Motors, Mobile, AL, have been >selected as part of NASA's General Aviation Propulsion (GAP) >program to develop technologies and manufacturing processes >for revolutionary, low-cost, environmentally-compliant >general aviation propulsion systems and test them on advanced >aircraft. >GAP works in concert with the NASA/FAA/Industry Advanced >General Aviation Transport Experiments (AGATE) Consortium >which is developing advanced cockpit and airframe >technologies. Both AGATE and GAP will promote U.S. economic >growth by supporting the revitalization of the general >aviation industry in the global market place. >U.S. general aviation serves 17,800 airports, provides >the only air transportation for millions of people to many >communities throughout the U.S. and the world and provides >hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs. >The ceremony will be shown live on NASA television, >Spacenet 2, 69 degrees West longitude, transponder 5 Channel >9, frequency 3880 MHz, horizontal polarization. Two-way >question and answer capability for media will be provided by >participating NASA centers. >-end- - ------------------------------ From: patrick Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:34:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Gray F-117 Joe Vincent wrote: >Which F-117 is that? The black ones, the gray ones, or the three color >camouflage one? Joe-- Would you believe I saw a Gray F-117 with black stars and bars in June of this year? patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net - ------------------------------ From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 01:16:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V5 #742 >>Please call and voice your displeasure. Try all of the numbers >>starting with the last, and work your way to the top. >What displeasure exactly? Hey, some people just react badly to having their mailbox flooded with dupe loop messages... especially from an unknown source. >... If you don't like the way the list >is run, you're welcome to leave and start your own. IF? Does *anyone* like being inundated with bounce messages?? :> - ------------------------------ From: Christian Kiel Date: Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:47:36 +0000 Subject: unsubscibe skunk-works unsubscibe skunk-works - ------------------------------ From: Wei-Jen Su Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 04:43:07 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Gray F-117 On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, patrick wrote: >Would you believe I saw a Gray F-117 with black stars and bars in June >of this year? You mean the logo of Lockheed Martin??? May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net - ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:18:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: EC-130V and other USCG/USCS C-130/E-2/P-3 The following is based on an earlier post from me (October 25, 1995), with some additional info, and also information from a post by Peter W. Merlin , which was posted at the same date. USCG (United States Coast Guard) C-130 Hercules list: ===================================================== Beginning in 1958, 12 Hercules were procured by the USAF (United States Air Force) on behalf of the USCG, which were destined for the long-range SAR (Search And Rescue) role. They were initially designated R8V-1G (an old-style USN (United States Navy) designation), but were soon redesignated as SC-130B. They temporarily received the designation HC-130G (G for Guard), but were ultimately redesignated on September 18, 1962, as HC-130B (in the new joint system), based on their similarity to C-130Bs. They operated up to the early 1980s, principally from CGAS (Coast Guard Air Station) Barbers Point, HI, and CGAS Elizabeth City, NC, in their assigned role. The 12 aircraft were: Sequen. USCG and USAF Lockheed USAF USCG No. Designation(s) Model c/n FY-Serial Serial 1 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3529 58-5396 1339 * 2 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3533 58-5397 1340 * 3 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3542 58-6973 1341 * 4 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3548 58-6974 1342 * 5 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3594 60-0311 1344 * 6 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3595 60-0312 1345 * 7 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3638 61-2081 1346 * 8 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3641 61-2082 1347 * 9 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3650 61-2083 1348 * 10 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3745 62-3753 1349 * 11 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3763 62-3754 1350 * 12 R8V-1G, SC-130B, HC-130G, HC-130B 282-2B 3773 62-3755 1351 * One EC-130E, equipped for the calibration of LORAN (LOng-RAnge Navigation) A and LORAN C navigation aids, was ordered by the USAF in the mid-1960s, and then transfered to the USCG in the summer of 1966. The aircraft was later redesignated as HC-130E, and has since been retired: Sequen. USCG and USAF Lockheed USAF USCG No. Designation(s) Model c/n FY-Serial Serial 1 EC-130E- -LM, HC-130E 382-4B 4158 66-4299 1414 * Starting in the late 1960s, 35 HC-130H were procured by the USAF for the USCG in several batches, and most remain still in service. They are usually stationed at CGAS Barbers Point, HI, CGAS Borinquen, PR, CGAS Clearwater, FL, CGAS Elizabeth City, NC, CGAS Kodiak, AK, and CGAS Sacramento, CA, from where they are basically used for long-range SAR. The USCG HC-130Hs are similar to the USAF HC-130H version, but do not employ the Fulton-STAR system. The 11 HC-130H-7 differ from the other 23 HC-130H, by being powered by 4 Allison T56-A-7B engines, instead of the usual, down-rated T56-A-15 or T56-A-16 ones. >From 1988 to 1994, all remaining HC-130H were modified at CGAS Elizabeth City, NC, so that they can be equipped with FLIR (Forward Looking InfraRed) pods and TI (Texas Instruments) AN/APS-137 ISAR (Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar) SLAR (Side Looking Airborne Radar) pods, which are used for anti-drug/ anti-smuggling operations. The 35 aircraft are (sorted by c/n): Sequen. USAF and USCG Lockheed USAF USCG No. Designation(s) Model c/n FY-Serial Serial 1 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4255 67-7183 1452 * 2 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4260 67-7184 1453 * 3 HC-130H- -LM 382-12B 4265 67-7185 1454 * 4 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4501 72-1300 1500 5 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4507 72-1301 1501 6 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4513 72-1302 1502 7 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4528 73-0844 1503 8 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4529 73-0845 1504 9 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4757 77-0320 1603 10 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4760 77-0319 1602 11 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4762 77-0318 1601 12 HC-130H- -LM 382C-27D 4764 77-0317 1600 * 13 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4931 - 1790 14 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4947 - 1700 15 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4958 - 1701 16 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4966 - 1702 17 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4967 - 1703 18 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4969 - 1704 19 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4993 - 1705 20 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4996 - 1706 21 HC-130H-7-LM 382 4999 - 1707 22 HC-130H-7-LM 382 5002 - 1708 23 HC-130H-7-LM 382 5005 - 1709 24 HC-130H- -LM 382 5028 - 1710 25 HC-130H- -LM 382 5031 - 1711 26 HC-130H- -LM 382 5033 - 1712 27 HC-130H- -LM 382 5034 - 1713 28 HC-130H- -LM 382 5035 - 1714 29 HC-130H- -LM 382 5037 - 1715 30 HC-130H- -LM 382 5023 - 1716 31 HC-130H- -LM 382 5... - 1717 32 HC-130H- -LM 382 5... - 1718 33 HC-130H- -LM 382 5... - 1719 34 HC-130H- -LM 382 5... - 1720 35 HC-130H-360-LM, EC-130V 382 5121 87-0157 1721 ** I have to admit that I still haven't ordered the Hercules Production List from Lars Olausson, which probably has all the missing Block numbers, Model numbers, c/n, and USAF FY-Serials listed. The '*' at the end of a line means, that the aircraft is now out of service. Only one of those, HC-130H '1600', which crashed at Attu, the Aleutian Islands, on July 30, 1982, seems to have been lost due to an accident, at least as far as I know. The '**' depict the single HC-130H, which was modified by Lockheed Martin Fort Worth (then General Dynamics, Fort Worth), as the sole EC-130V 'AEW' (Airborne Early Warning) version, equipped with an AN/APS-125, taken from an earlier E-2C. E-2Cs were modified from AN/APS-125 to AN/APS-138 (and some to AN/APS-139), and later to the even newer AN/APS-145. The EC-130V conversion program was handled by the USAF's AFLC's (Air Force Logistics Command's) BIG SAFARI Program Office, and Det. 4 of the 2762nd LSS (Logistics Support (?) Squadron), provided the flight test crew. [As an aside, Det. 1 of the 2762nd LS (Logistics Squadron) was based at Air Force Plant 42/Lockheed (Martin) Plant 10, Palmdale, CA, and was responsible for U-2, SR-71, and F-117 logistics. The unit was redesignated the 645th MS (Materiel Squadron), based at Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH, and reports to the ASC (Aeronautical Systems Center, also at Wright-Patterson AFB), which belongs to the AFMC (Air Force Materiel Command). Det. 4, which was based for the last 30 years at the Lockheed Aircraft Services facility in Ontario, CA, has also been moved to Palmdale this year, together with the BIG SAFARI Program Office, responsible for various special purpose C-130 conversions.] The EC-130V made its first flight in the new configuration on July 31, 1991 and was delivered to CGAS Clearwater, FL. Due to budget cuts, the USCG test program was terminated in April 1993, and in October of 1993, the aircraft was delivered to the 6545th (Radar) Test Group, 6514th TS (Test Squadron), based at Hill AFB, UT, now redesignated 545th TG (Test Group), 514th TS. The aircraft is usually kept at Edwards AFB, North Base, home of the 413th TS "Red Hats", 412th OG (Operations Group), 412th TW (Test Wing), (which was previously designated the 6513th TS, of the 6510th TW), and is flown by pilots from the 418th TS (which flies and tests all the AC-130/MC-130), while the 413th TS "Red Hats" conducts the equipment tests. The aircraft still wears USCG colors (white and red) but no USCG logos or markings, and it also doesn't show either the USCG serial on the nose nor the original USAF serial or any other tail number on the airframe at all. Pallets of sophisticated electronics suites are loaded into the cargo bay behind the E-2C antenna control station, and missions apparently included equipment for "a data link between the EC-130V and combat aircraft," maybe testing the Link 16/JTIDS (Joint Tactical Information Distribution System) or something similar. Besides the AWACS-type (Airborne Warning And Control System) dish, the EC-130V has a number of interesting antenna "bumps and bulges" on the nose and tail, as well as several ram air scoops, perhaps for cooling electronic systems, and/or providing power from a ram air turbine generator. Before the EC-130V was available, the USCG leased 9 Grumman E-2C Hawkeye from the USN, which were later all (but one) returned to the USN. They were flown by Coast Guard Air Wing One, and based at St. Augustine, FL. The following aircraft were involved and received USCG serials: Sequen. USN Grumman USN USCG Remarks, No. Designation Model c/n BuAerNo Serial Disposition 1 E-2C G-123 ? 160698 3501 crashed (when ?) 2 E-2C G-123 ? 159497 3502 returned to USN 3 E-2C G-123 ? 159112 3503 returned to USN 4 E-2C G-123 ? 160011 3504 returned to USN 5 E-2C G-123 ? 159502 3505 returned to USN 6 E-2C G-123 ? 161342 3506 returned to USN 7 E-2C G-123 ? 158641 3507 returned to USN 8 E-2C G-123 ? 160415 3508 returned to USN 9 E-2C G-123 ? 160419 3509 returned to USN Lockheed also modified four P-3B Orions to P-3B AEW with AN/APS-138 radars, the same as used in later E-2C, for the USCS (United States Customs Service). The aircraft were originally advertised as P-3 AEW&C (AEW & Control), and later as P-3 Sentinel, while in USCS service they are called P-3B 'Domes' to distinguish them from P-3A 'Slicks', also used by the USCS. The modifications included Hazletine TPX-54 IFF (Identification/Interrogation Friend or Foe), AN/AYK-14 computer with Honeywell 1601M array processor, dual Sanders Miligraphics touch-sensitive color display screens, providing digital data, dual ARC-182 VHF/UHF (Very/Ultra High Frequency) communications radio, dual ARC-207 HF and dual Wulfsberg VHF/UHF FM radios, and were made by the... Lockheed Skunk Works (now we are on topic again!) Two of the aircraft were ex-RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) airframes, while the other two were ex-USN airframes. The following aircraft were modified (sorted by c/n): Sequen. USN Lockheed USN RAAF FAA No. Designation Model c/n BuAerNo Serial Registration(s) 1 P-3B-65-LO 185 5162 152722 ---- N147CS 2 P-3B-95-LO 185 5256 154575 ---- N148CS 3 P-3B-105-LO 185 5286 154605 A9-605 N146CS 4 P-3B-100-LO 185 5409 155299 A9-299 N91LC, N145CS The first modified P-3B, c/n 5409, (No. 4), was used as a prototype with the registration 'N91LC', and was originally equipped with an empty AN/APA-171 radom for aerodynamic tests, making its first flight (without radar) on June 14, 1984, and with radar (AN/APS-125) on April 8, 1988. It was delivered to the USCS at NAS (Navy Air Station) Corpus Christi, TX, and re-registered 'N145CS' and named 'Blue Eagle'. It was later retrofitted with AN/APS-138 radar. The second modified P-3B, c/n 5286, (No. 3), was registered 'N146CS' and received the name 'Blue Eagle II'. It was delivered to the USCS in June 1989 with an AN/APS-138 radar. The third P-3B, c/n 5162, (No. 1), was registered 'N147CS', and was delivered to the USCS on June 26, 1992, with an AN/APS-138 radar. The fourth and last P-3B, c/n 5256, (No. 2), was registered 'N148CS', and was delivered to the USCS on May 26, 1993, also with an AN/APS-138 radar. All P-3B 'Domes' are now out of service, similar to the EC-130V, also only due to budget constraints. The remaining P-3As in USCS service are 'Slicks' (sorted by c/n): Sequen. USN Lockheed USN FAA No. Designation Model c/n BuAerNo Registration 1 P-3A-25-LO 185 5040 150514 N18314 2 P-3A-45-LO 185 5103 151390 N15390 3 P-3A-45-LO 185 5108 151395 N16295 4 P-3A-55-LO 185 5140 152170 N16370 Got carried away again... - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- - ------------------------------ From: adrian mann Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:46:58 +0000 Subject: tests essage-Id: I don't mind how many test messages I get. It's hardly a chore to bin'em and if it means the list has a home thats a price I can pay! BTW, I am willing to become the ubiquitous "witting" if it means I get loads of unsolicited highly sensitive compartmentalised information mail. =A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7= =A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7= =A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7=A7 "Smoke dope, cheat on your wife, dodge the draft, become President - - it's the new American way." Adrian Mann, Birmingham, England - ------------------------------ From: "Carl A. Slenk x2579" Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 07:12:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V5 #736 >From: patrick >Subject: Re: EG&G - who owns it? >Edgerton . . . >I believe he developed the photo optics for the U-2. That would be Edwin Land ( ie Polaroid ) who developed the cameras for the skyhook ballons. The camera were subsequently used in the original U-2's. - ------------------------------ From: patrick Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 06:50:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Gray F-117 Wei-Jen Su wrote: >On Tue, 10 Dec 1996, patrick wrote: >>Would you believe I saw a Gray F-117 with black stars and bars in June >>of this year? >You mean the logo of Lockheed Martin??? Su Wei-Jen-- Interesting question in light of the "stars and bars" logo of Lockheed Corp. But in this case the term "stars and bars" is a term I use in referring to US insignia painted on the wings or fuselage of our airplanes to indicate ownership by the United States. And in the aircraft I saw the "tail flash" (nomenclature or lettering indicating the airbase the plane is assigned to) and serial number were also painted a flat black. So to recap what I saw, it was a dark Gray F-117, with all the normally white markings, redone in non-refective black. - ------------------------------ From: georgek@pmihwy.com (George R. Kasica) Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:37:44 GMT Subject: Questions/Problems/the Infamous Mr. Witting On Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:46:58 +0000, you wrote: >I don't mind how many test messages I get. It's hardly a chore to bin'em >and if it means the list has a home thats a price I can pay! BTW, I am >willing to become the ubiquitous "witting" if it means I get loads of >unsolicited highly sensitive compartmentalised information mail. The infamous 'witting' has become a victim of the bit bucket. As are hopefully mist of the glitches and bugs. We're still swatting a few here relating to digests, but nothing major that I'm aware of. One question for all: A request was made to reduce the size of digests to jst below 32K rather than the 40K they are at now. Does anyone have a problem with this or want a different size. I'd like to get a size we can all live with and just change it once rather than bounce the size around. Let me know, ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 414 290 6745 Network Manager +1 414 290 6753 FAX Infinity Healthcare Mequon, WI USA georgek@pmihwy.com - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: 2.6.2 mQCNAzDHH2gAAAEEAL9FWaYjjxtHJqFbq/3MAY5o2IUao+XCImBx/Ny+v5T/DVdM lQFo6BV0neJ9/RO1VYaM8Xm003x7HLXB2LqWwqfdxvxlUv4crKDL5iwTEdzbAD2w ZJ4bIjgUNAmK75RnNTaRoqswgEcRRu0XD6H/t7VgoYZKDcU+p5YN47tzGRtpAAUR tBJnZW9yZ2VrQHBtaWh3eS5jb20= =jdUe - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- - ------------------------------ From: Maudib Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:44:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Appology (unsubscribe attempts) Joe Vincent wrote: >Maudib wrote: >>TomHun8054@aol.com wrote: >>>Frank - >>>Can you tell me how I might remove myself from the mailing list? I will be >>>losing this email address soon. >>Send a message to skunk-works@pmihwy.com. Do put a subject and in the >>body of the message type: >>unsubscibe skunk-works >It seems like when the list was at orst.edu all subscribe/unsubscribe >commands were sent to majordomo@mail.orst.edu. not skunk-works. Try >majordomo@pmihwy.com as the address element. Sending it to >skunk- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #752 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "georgek@netwrx1.com". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for e-mail request by sending a message to majordomo@pmihwy.com with no subject and a line containing "get skunk-works-digest vNN.nMMM" (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). You can get a list of all available digests by sending the one line command "index skunk-works-digest". If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R, Kasica