From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V6 #9 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Thursday, 23 January 1997 Volume 06 : Number 009 In this issue: A-12 Image Where is everyone? Re: Where is everyone? Re[2]: Where is everyone? SR-71 in UK rumour Re: SR-71 in UK rumour Palmdale KC-135 Q's Low Visibility Paint Re: Palmdale Re: KC-135Q's re: KC-135 Q's skunk-works unsubscribe Re: Low Visibility Paint Hi altitude con-trails "Black" Books Re: "Black" Books 2025/Hypersonic Attack Platform government reveals sensitive radio information See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 22:02:10 -0600 Subject: A-12 Image Re: the M-12/D-21, I didn't recognize it as a "12" 'cause the wing configuration looked more like the '71 to me. Here's a real pretty image of A-12, #6932, which was lost over the South China Sea, with CIA Pilot Jack Weeks on June 5, 1968. No trace was ever found of either the '12 or it's pilot. http://www.lmsw.external.lmco.com/lmsw/images/A12.GIF Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ From: blackbird@TELIS.ORG (Jon Price (PJ)) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 20:26:20 GMT Subject: Where is everyone? No posts for three days? Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. Jon Price (PJ) *From the Eastern Slopes of* *The Beautiful High Sierra* *Bishop, California, USA* ------------------------------ From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:46:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Where is everyone? I was wondering the same thing?? Where the heck is everyone??!!?? Greg Weigold Columbia, SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Where is everyone? Author: blackbird@TELIS.ORG (Jon Price (PJ)) at Internet Date: 1/20/97 8:26 PM No posts for three days? Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. Jon Price (PJ) *From the Eastern Slopes of* *The Beautiful High Sierra* *Bishop, California, USA* ------------------------------ From: "Terry Colvin" Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 16:19:21 GMT Subject: Re[2]: Where is everyone? We are here on the northeastern slope of the Huachuca Mountains in SE Arizona. Terry Terry W. Colvin < colvint@fhu.disa.mil > "No editor ever likes the way a story tastes unless he pees in it first." - Mark Twain ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Where is everyone? Author: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) at smtp-fhu Date: 20/01/97 14:16 I was wondering the same thing?? Where the heck is everyone??!!?? Greg Weigold Columbia, SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Where is everyone? Author: blackbird@TELIS.ORG (Jon Price (PJ)) at Internet Date: 1/20/97 8:26 PM No posts for three days? Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. Jon Price (PJ) *From the Eastern Slopes of* *The Beautiful High Sierra* *Bishop, California, USA* ------------------------------ From: John Burtenshaw Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 09:46:54 -0100 Subject: SR-71 in UK rumour Hi All Rumours from the aircraft spotting community that a SR-71 is due into Mildenhall sometime this week. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this? Cheers John ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 14:21:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: SR-71 in UK rumour This is neither confirmation or denial, but I heard a while back that the Det was going to do this. It's not Dryden, I can assure you. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 21 Jan 1997, John Burtenshaw wrote: > Hi All > > Rumours from the aircraft spotting community that a SR-71 is due into > Mildenhall sometime this week. Can anyone on the list confirm or deny this? > > > Cheers > > > John > > ------------------------------ From: David Linthwaite Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 20:22:33 -0000 Subject: Palmdale Whilst on holiday in California recently happened upon Palmdale Airport. Being a relative new-comer I know that Lockheed, Northrop and Boeing-Rockwell have facilities there but other than that I am a little vague. The facilities certainly didn't give anything away apart from a brace of SR-71, an A-12 and a U-2. Can somebody fill me in on what actually happens here, what aircraft would associated with Palmdale, and if this is the site of the Skunk Works then have Lockheed left Burbank. I scanned the Ben Rich book but alas Palmdale doesn't get a mention. Hey, did I am mention that I am a faithful NATO ally and not a KGB scout ? Unclassified info only of course p.s. anymore info on the Blackbird/Mildenhall rumour ? I live about 30 minutes south of the base... ------------------------------ From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:19:46 -0600 Subject: KC-135 Q's Looking for anything on the present status of the KC-135 Q tankers that formerly served the SR-71 fleet out of Beale. Thought I read a budget item that they were reconfigured. Is this the KC-135 R? What is the difference between the KC-135 Q and the KC-135 R? Would appreciate any info available. Wayne Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ From: "Tom Burnett" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:08:58 +1000 Subject: Low Visibility Paint Is any information available concerning a type of paint purportedly tested by the Air Force, possibly (or probably) in conjunction with the SW that reflects exceedingly low levels of visible light? I do not refer to the $1,200/gallon stuff that returns low RF or to camouflage paint schemes, but to a product that is supposed to render objects very difficult to see in the visible spectrum. This might include the IR spectrum, but that is not the basis of the inquiry. Tom Burnett tcburnett@kuentos.guam.net ------------------------------ From: tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com (Tom Robison) Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:18:23 +0000 Subject: Re: Palmdale David Linthwaite wrote >Can somebody fill me in on what actually happens here, what aircraft would >associated with Palmdale, and if this is the site of the Skunk Works then >have Lockheed left Burbank? Well, David, we could tell ya, but then we'd have to kill ya. Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications (Soon to be Raytheon), Fort Wayne, IN Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of Hughes Defense Communications, Hughes Aircraft Corp, Hughes Electronics Corp, General Motors Corp, Raytheon, God, or my wife. ------------------------------ From: John Stone Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 08:10:20 -0500 Subject: Re: KC-135Q's Wayne Busse wrote: >Looking for anything on the present status of the KC-135 Q tankers >that formerly served the SR-71 fleet out of Beale. > >Thought I read a budget item that they were reconfigured. >Is this the KC-135 R? >What is the difference between the KC-135 Q and the KC-135 R? They have been modified to "T" spec, which is basically the same as an "R", they been re-engined with the same CFM-56 engines that the "R"s have. They are based out of Kansas, with an Air National Guard unit, and an active Air Force unit at Fairchild AFB, WA. BTW theunit in Washington does the refuleing for Det 2 at Edwards AFB. Hope this helps, John | / ^ \ ___|___ -(.)==<.>==(.)- --------o---((.))---o-------- SR-71 Blackbird U-2 Dragon Lady John Stone jstone@thepoint.net U-2 and SR-71 Web Page:http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ From: "Earl Needham, KD5XB, in Clovis, NM" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:16:53 -0800 Subject: re: KC-135 Q's All of us on this list know what the KC-135Q is/was, but as for the KC-135R, that airplane is BASICALLY a KC-135A with new turbofan engines. I'm sure there are other differences, please don't flame me for not putting them here, as I don't have the details. Earl > From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse), on 1/21/97 11:19 PM: > Looking for anything on the present status of the KC-135 Q tankers > that formerly served the SR-71 fleet out of Beale. > > Thought I read a budget item that they were reconfigured. > Is this the KC-135 R? > What is the difference between the KC-135 Q and the KC-135 R? > > Would appreciate any info available. ------------------------------ From: "John P.McElwain" Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 13:03:02 -0500 Subject: skunk-works unsubscribe ------------------------------ From: Brad Hitch Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 21:38:32 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Low Visibility Paint On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Tom Burnett wrote: > Is any information available concerning a type of paint purportedly tested > by the Air Force, possibly (or probably) in conjunction with the SW that > reflects exceedingly low levels of visible light? I do not refer to the > $1,200/gallon stuff that returns low RF or to camouflage paint schemes, but > to a product that is supposed to render objects very difficult to see in > the visible spectrum. This might include the IR spectrum, but that is not > the basis of the inquiry. > > Tom Burnett > tcburnett@kuentos.guam.net > Black paint reflects less than 1% of all incident visible light, re-emitting infrared across a wide range of frequencies. The highest intensity wavelength emitted depends upon its temperature and closely corresponds to the theoretical "blackbody". Just absorbing visible light doesn't make something "low observable". Hot black exhaust surfaces would make a Sidewinder growl like crazy. You need a nice polished low emissivity metal surface, like gold plating, to keep infrared emissions low with hot surfaces. Of course the glint would be a giveaway then. The F-117 uses massive cooling of the exhaust surfaces to keep infrared emissions down and also hides the hot engine parts by blocking the line of sight with cool surfaces. You can still get reflections of the engine parts off of these cool surfaces, however. Hiding and cooling are part and parcel of classic low observable design. Paint it black and only fly on moonless nights, when its black outside. ------------------------------ From: tonydinkel@clubnet.net (Tony Dinkel) Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:33:41 -0800 Subject: Hi altitude con-trails >No posts for three days? Hope everyone is enjoying the weekend. Well, I was on assignment out of town. But I have a question that is not exactly skunky but I don't know where else to put it. I have observed many minute man launches from Vandenberg AFB in the past and have always enjoyed the "twilight effect". I have noticed that above a certain altitude, the SRB trail does not just simply blow away. It gets tangled and twisted but pretty much stays continuous. Then, as the earth turns under it, it appears to move East. The recent launch from VAFB that made the news had a twilight effect that was visible from Las Vegas at the same time I was driving under it in Gorman, CA. What altitude does this occur at? Are my assumptions correct? Any experts out there on con-trail dynamics? thanks, td ------------------------------ From: "Gentile, Larry" Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:42:43 -0800 Subject: "Black" Books Hi everyone, I am a relative newcomer to the skunk works list, but have been interested in all facets of military aviation for as long as I can remember. After reading "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich, I became most interested in the "black" world. My question to the list is what other books do you know of that cover "black" projects. I am currently reading "Deep Black" by William Burroughs which deals exclusively with satellite reconnaisance. Thanks in advance for your knowledge, Larry Gentile lgentile@filenet.com FileNet Corporation Costa Mesa, Ca. ------------------------------ From: "A.J. Craddock" Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:24:06 -0800 Subject: Re: "Black" Books Try "Blank Check", Pullitzer Prize winning author Andrew Weiner's seminal book about the Pentagon's black budget. Tony Craddock *********** At 03:42 PM 1/23/97 -0800, Gentile, Larry wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I am a relative newcomer to the skunk works list, but have been >interested in all facets of military aviation for as long as I can >remember. After reading "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich, I became most >interested in the "black" world. My question to the list is what other >books do you know of that cover "black" projects. I am currently >reading "Deep Black" by William Burroughs which deals exclusively with >satellite reconnaisance. > >Thanks in advance for your knowledge, > >Larry Gentile >lgentile@filenet.com >FileNet Corporation >Costa Mesa, Ca. > > ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 16:47:01 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: 2025/Hypersonic Attack Platform The USAF 2025 study is entirely online as HTML and Adobe. Of particular interest to this list is the paper, "A Hypersonic Attack Platform: The S3 Concept." Dare I say the boost stage reminds me of the XB-70 clone that people have apparently been seeing? Anyway, there are a number of fascinating papers, including some futurological scenarios that provide a context for all of this. It's at http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/ Enjoy --Brett ------------------------------ From: PaulMcG@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:44:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: government reveals sensitive radio information If you've ever wanted to know how the U.S. government uses the radio frequencies allocated to it, something they don't normally tell people, take a look at this Web page: http://www.ntia.doc.gov/osmhome/nebbia.html which explains how the U.S. government uses the RF spectrum from 137 MHz to 10 GHz. This Web page was put up by the Office of Spectrum Management, which assigns frequencies to various users. There are some very interesting revelations. For example, this Web page shows 420-450 MHz being used for new radars to detect low-observable ("Stealth") aircraft. I had been aware of programs like the one code-named MOUNTAIN TOP that is run by ARPA (the Defense Department's Advanced Research Projects Agency) out at White Sands Missile Range, but I had not previously seen the frequency range listed for these top of special radars. Paul McGinnis / PaulMcG@aol.com http://www.frogi.org/secrecy.html [military secrecy site] http://members.aol.com/paulmcg/ [home page] ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V6 #9 ******************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". 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