From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V6 #14 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 4 February 1997 Volume 06 : Number 014 In this issue: Re: "Jetsons Here We Come" Re: SkyCar Re: "Jetsons Here We Come" Blackbird Jetsons Helicopter Tip Speeds Re: Jetsons Re: SkyCar More AFNS news RE: "Jetsons Here We Come" Spyflights of the Cold War - Another View Re: jetsons ... Re: jetsons ... Re[2]: jetsons ... Re[2]: jetsons ... Original Jetson---The Aerocar See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: egunter@connecti.com Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 09:34:08 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: "Jetsons Here We Come" Please DO NOT send any more of this kind of crap that wastes my time and disc space. At 09:48 PM 2/2/97 +0800, you wrote: >----------------------------- >LOOKING INTO THE FUTURE >----------------------------- > >February 02, 1997AD > >- - - - - > > Do you hate Traffic? (Don't We All?) > > Did you ever wish you could just fly-off out of traffic at 390mph and > fly at a Maximum altitude of 30,000 Feet? > > Yes you can, and it's Now Here.. > > Well, Actually it has been here for quite a while.. > > The Moller SKYCAR (M400) Volantor Series > > I have been following it's development since 1989, ever since I > saw it in a TV Science Program and in an article in the January > 1991 issue of Popular Mechanics and subsequent articles in the > Discover Science Magazine. > > The SKYCAR was invented by Dr. Paul Moller, and the working prototype > I saw in 1989 was the Model M200X Volantor (it actually works!) > a new prototype production model (M400) is now under developement > and is being fitted with a new twin rotor engine in preperation for > a mid-1997 lift-off! > > SKYCAR Specs: > > The SKYCAR is a 4 passenger VTOL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing) > aircraft, it has 8 rotor engines and can carry 740lbs of weight at > a cruise speed of 350Mph and a top speed of 390Mph, w/ a climb rate > of 7800fpm (ft-per-min) at an operational ceiling of 30,000ft! uses > ordinary automotive gas (15 miles to a gallon) w/ a range of > 900Miles!, Can Land Anywhere, Fully Computer Controlled and > Environment Friendly. > > But what about noise? > > - It hums and has a Noise Level of 65dba at 500ft. > (about the sound of a cruising BMW) > > What if something goes wrong while in flight? > > - It will still Fly even if you loose a rotor engine (it has 8) > (usually because of birds being sucked into the engine) > > What if All 8 rotor engines goes off? > > - It is fitted w/ an Emergency Parachute. > > Controls are quite easy.. > > You have a lever on your left-side for Altitude/Rate of Climb and > a joystick on your right, move it forward and it will move forward, > that's all to it! - - is this aircraft/car cool or what? > > I hope the SkyCar pushes thru production stage.. > >- - - - - > > Check Out The Moller International WebSite: > > * URL: http://www.moller.com/~mi/skycar.htm > >- - - - - > >Well, Until Then.. > >See You All in The Future! >________________________________________________________ >MIKE MONTEALEGRE > >"The Truth is Out There, So Shall it Will Be Revealed.." > >Mailto:Mikemail@Skyinet.net > >DETF:970202-9:29p >________________________________________________________ > > "The Future is What We Do Today..." > >- - - - - > >The SKYCAR (Moller 400 Volantor) > >Attachment Converted: C:\CONNECT\skycar.jpg > ------------------------------ From: "Mike (tHe oRiGiNaL!)" Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 02:00:36 +0800 Subject: Re: SkyCar I am sorry, if my last post was a bit off-topic and wasn't that interesting to some of you.. My Post was not an advertisement or spam, I am not a representative of Moller International in anyway, I just posted it because I thought it would be of interest to this mailing list, since it was about an aircraft. I'm Sorry if anyone was inconvenienced because of that. - Mike ------------------------------ From: Earl Needham Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:01:16 -0800 Subject: Re: "Jetsons Here We Come" > From: egunter@connecti.com, on 2/2/97 10:59 AM: > Please DO NOT send any more of this kind of crap that wastes my time and > disc space. Please don't quote the entire message when you say something like this - -- "it wastes my time and disc (sic) space". ------------------------------ From: Jason Date: Sun, 02 Feb 1997 14:02:13 -0500 Subject: Blackbird To whom it may concern, I would like to be put on the mailing list about the SR-71 or skunk works in general. Thanks, Jason _____________ ___ ____ ____ ___ |_____ ____| / | / \ / \ \ \_______ / / / | | __| | _ \ \ ____ \ / / / /| | \ \ | | \ | \ \ \ \ / / / /_| | _\ \ | | \ | \ \ \ \ ___ / / / __ | | | | | |__| | \ \ \ \ \ \_/ / / / | | \ | / | | \ \ \ \ \_____/ /__/ |__| \___/ \____/ \__\ \__\ ------------------------------ From: Kevin Klapperich Date: Sun, 2 Feb 1997 23:25:51 -0500 (EST) Subject: Jetsons I appreciated the picture and news of the flying car and would look forward to anymore information anyone might like to contribute on this subject. For those individuals who don't share this interest, I encourage you to utilize the delete function to eradicate your unwanted e-mail. Perhaps this particular message will provide an excellant example for future practice. Kevin ------------------------------ From: ROTRAMELJE%AM4@mr.nawcad.navy.mil Date: Mon, 03 Feb 1997 09:07:31 -0500 (EST) Subject: Helicopter Tip Speeds Since we're on the subject, are the rotor tips on newer helicopters (AH-64 & H-60 come to mind) swept back to prevent them from going supersonic or for some other reason? Jim Rotramel ------------------------------ From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:40:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Jetsons My response to this e-mail is much the same as everone else's... I really didn't want 25K tied up in what looked more like an advertisement than anything. BUT, if it really wasn't intended as such, I too appreciated the JPEG image. In the future, anyone with info like this might be advised to run a small notice offering to send it direct to anyone who responds off-list. It really does take up alot of time and space on the server and in my Inbox, and deleting it requires reading it first, which is the main complaint from most users, I imagine. Most of us have probably followed the development of Moeller's vehicles with at least some passing interest, and seeing them hit mass production might have advantages, but I see an ATC nightmare developing, personally. Mike: Next time, how about keeping it down to 1K or less when bringing in off-topic posts. Thanks GW Greg Weigold gregweigold@pmsc.com Columbia, SC ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Pepper" Date: Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:09:23 -0600 Subject: Re: SkyCar At 02:00 AM 2/3/97 +0800, you wrote: >I am sorry, if my last post was a bit off-topic and wasn't that >interesting to some of you.. > >My Post was not an advertisement or spam, I am not a representative of >Moller International in anyway, I just posted it because I thought it >would be of interest to this mailing list, since it was about an >aircraft. > >I'm Sorry if anyone was inconvenienced because of that. > > - Mike What's the problem with this???? I read and enjoyed it!!! BTW, I saw Moller on TV the other night with his flying saucers. It was very interesting, and meshed nicely with what you (Mike ) posted. Dr. Pepper Good ALL the time Well, , , MOST of the time anyway ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 07:05:56 EST Subject: More AFNS news Another article from AFNS, and FWIW: a Predator is scheduled to be on display at the AF 50th anniv. airshow here in Louisville Ky on April 19-20. details at http://www.kyang.win.net according to PR folks, aircraft scheduled (if available) will be SR-71, U-2, B-2, F-117 plus anything that ever flew in AF colors if its still around. - -------------------------------------------------------------------- 970120. Air Force unveils Predator UAV NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. (AFNS) -- The Air Force's 11th Reconnaissance Squadron unveiled its Predator Unmanned Aerial Vehicle to the public Jan. 31, at Indian Springs Air Force Auxiliary Field. The ceremony included a launch of the UAV and a static display for the public to view. Predators are also know as the Tier II Medium Altitude Endurance UAV. Produced by General Atomics Aeronautical Systems, San Diego, the drones are 27 feet long with a wingspan of approximately 49 feet. With a loiter time of up to 40 hours and a maximum ceiling of 25,000 feet, these aerial "eyes in the sky" can operate in high-risk areas without endangering an aircrew. Additionally, the UAV's real-time imagery can be relayed to combined air operations centers or joint intelligence centers via satellites to provide commanders on the ground information to make accurate and timely decisions. The 11th RS received its first two Predator UAVs in November 1996. Each UAV costs less than $3 million dollars and the 11th RS is programmed to receive 45 of the vehicles. The 11th RS belongs to the 57th Wing at Nellis Air Force Base. (Courtesy of ACC News Service) & AFNS: ------------------------------ From: Doug Tiffany Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 06:28:06 -0600 Subject: RE: "Jetsons Here We Come" - ---------- From: Mike (tHe oRiGiNaL!)[SMTP:mikemail@skyinet.net] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 1997 8:48 AM To: skunk-works@pmihwy.com Subject: "Jetsons Here We Come" Mike writes: SKYCAR Specs: The SKYCAR is a 4 passenger VTOL (Vertical Take-Off and Landing) aircraft, it has 8 rotor engines and can carry 740lbs of weight at a cruise speed of 350Mph and a top speed of 390Mph, w/ a climb rate of 7800fpm (ft-per-min) at an operational ceiling of 30,000ft! uses ordinary automotive gas (15 miles to a gallon) w/ a range of 900Miles!, Can Land Anywhere, Fully Computer Controlled and Environment Friendly. I'm curious, is that 15 mpg at 350 mph? If so, that's pretty darn good!! DJT ------------------------------ From: CULLY@svr81trw.kee.aetc.af.mil (CULLY, George Mr) Date: 04 Feb 97 08:27:14 EST Subject: Spyflights of the Cold War - Another View For those interested in Cold War overflights, be on the lookout for an article in the forthcoming Spring issue of Military History Quarterly entitled "The Truth About Overflights: Military Reconnaissance Missions Over Russia Before the U-2." The author, R. Cargill Hall, has interviewed a number of overflight program participants, and he has done some archival research which challenges the view presented by Lashmar and others depicting LeMay as a 'Rogue General.' Hall acknowledges that the documentary evidence is still fragmentary, but what he has found is consistent with later U-2 activities: recce flights over the Soviet landmass during the 1950-1956 period were done at the direction of the President and closely monitored by his immediate advisors. Hall also has some info on RAF Canberra overflights, and his article provides the background on those photos of RB-45Cs in Brit markings that have been printed so many times w/o explanation. Good Stuff! Geo. Cully ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 10:44:18 -0800 Subject: Re: jetsons ... GREG WEIGOLD writes: >... > Most of us have probably followed the development of Moeller's > vehicles with at least some passing interest, and seeing them hit mass > production might have advantages, HERE, HERE! Volarrrrreee ... Oh .. Oh! ... > but I see an ATC nightmare > developing, personally. Not if the "economics" section of his WEB site is accurate! They're quoting the price as less than 5% the price of a V-22 Osprey! Little comfort to those of us trying to replace the Family Truckster! Larry ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Tue, 4 Feb 97 12:22:33 mA Subject: Re: jetsons ... Larry makes an interesting point. We're talking over $ 1million apiece here. The Skycar has been around for some time, and production always seems to be "just around the corner". I'd love to see it enter production, but I do think there will have be some major ATC issues to deal with. Certification is also going to be tricky. One possible sticking point is that in case of engine failure, parachutes pop out. This means that descent is essentially uncontrolled. The first time one of these comes down in a schoolyard is going to be rough. I'd also like to se some data showing the M400 (or even the M200X) flying its entire promised envelope. I've seen a number of pictures of Skycars on the ground or airborne in ground effect, but I've yet to see a photo of one just plain flying along. I sure hope it's real. Art Hanley Don't even think, not for a second, That what I said above has anything To do with my employer's position. ------------------------------ From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:53:20 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: jetsons ... I had originally read that mass production would bring the M400 down to the $150K range. Independent estimates (not Moller) estimated 100,000 plus sales in the first 5 years, at this price. If that were to happen, I can't imagine all of the ramifications. Who's going to certify operators, the FAA? Individual states? Would each vehicle undergo the rigorous testing and certification process that current airframes do? I would personally love to have something that would cut my daily 120+ mile commute to 30, but I'm afraid that VFR probably just wouldn't cut it. At $1M+, we probably won't have to worry for a few years. It would be fun though, wouldn't it?!? GW ------------------------------ From: larry@ichips.intel.com Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 14:43:54 -0800 Subject: Re[2]: jetsons ... >At $1M+, we probably won't have to worry for a few years. > >It would be fun though, wouldn't it?!? GW It sure would! I'm also hoping for the jet belt or jet pack using an airbreathing engine, someday. Maybe a PDWE would be perfect! Larry ------------------------------ From: patrick@e-z.net Date: Tue, 04 Feb 1997 15:40:05 -0800 Subject: Original Jetson---The Aerocar Let us not forget the original Aerocar designed by Molt Taylor back in the 50's. With wings and tail section that were removable for transport to and from the airstrip, the Aerocar was a fine flyer. But when Molt went to the FAA for certification they had absolute nightmares envisioning California type freeways in the skies full of Aerocars. They tied the poor guy up in so many miles of red tape that they finally broke his spirit thus ending his dream. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V6 #14 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "georgek@netwrx1.com". 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