From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V6 #16 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Tuesday, 18 February 1997 Volume 06 : Number 016 In this issue: B-2 Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom re: B-2 Re: Skunk Works Digest V6 #15 Re: All Quiet F-117 Noise Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Re: F-117 Noise Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Skunk-works Archives MiG-37B "Ferret" Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Re: Rumoured aircraft at Groom Re: Rumoured aircraft at Groom Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Stealth on TV RE: Stealth on TV Pastel AC - was Stealth on TV See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phillip Young Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 16:28:02 -0800 Subject: B-2 Here's something that has been puzzling me. Perhaps someone can pooh-pooh or pooh-bah this but --- If the "stealthy" B-2 is supposed to be so undetectable, why am I always able to tell when one is going over? Those dudes are really loud. It would seem pretty easy to me to rig some type of audio detection device to search and destroy. We live here pretty close to Whiteman, and they go over here frequently. If you hear a loud jet, you can pretty sure look up and it will be there. One of them buzzed my son's junior high track meet last year. That was pretty impressive. ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 12:54:44 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom On Fri, 14 Feb 1997, Dean Adams wrote: > > Taken with a grain of salt, it entertains at least. > > At least... :> > > > I have recently come into contact with someone who claims to have had > > a tour of Area 51 which he refers to as a branch of Nellis. He said he > > knew a worker who got him in and gave him a tour. > > Well, at this point we know the rest is *pure* "entertainment". > It just sounds like a cobbling together of a few of the tamer current rumours, but yep... I'm always amused by these stories about tours of secret bases. "Here we have the horrible genetic hybrids between greys and humans, and over there we have the Holy Grail, and in this room we have all the evidence that shows who really shot JFK, and in this room we have the Loch Ness Monster in a converted swimming pool, and this is our flying saucer garage - the luxury model has burgundy velour upholstry, this is the secret world domination conspiracy control room - aren't the blinking lights pretty?, and in this wing we have the apartments for the retired Nazi scientists... I hope you enjoyed your tour, come again - oh, and by the way, if you mention this to anyone, you're a dead man." - --Brett ------------------------------ From: Earl Needham Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 17:02:58 -0800 Subject: re: B-2 Just a guess, but if you're close to Whiteman, perhaps they're low & slow every time you see them. Most jets are MUCH quieter when they're at speed (SUBSONIC) than when they're in the pattern. For example -- the F-111 or the F-4 with shake the fillings out of your teeth when taking off, but coming form behind you at 350+ knots, you rarely know they're coming until they're going! Earl Needham KD5XB Clovis, NM Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Pi Chi, '76 KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG From the Radio Amateurs Code: Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, Patriotic > From: Phillip Young , on 2/14/97 4:28 PM: > Here's something that has been puzzling me. Perhaps someone can > pooh-pooh or pooh-bah this but --- If the "stealthy" B-2 is supposed to > be so undetectable, why am I always able to tell when one is going over? > Those dudes are really loud. It would seem pretty easy to me to rig > some type of audio detection device to search and destroy. > > We live here pretty close to Whiteman, and they go over here frequently. > If you hear a loud jet, you can pretty sure look up and it will be > there. > > One of them buzzed my son's junior high track meet last year. That was > pretty impressive. > > > > ------------------------------ From: Packer Backer Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 21:00:12 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V6 #15 Please take me off your mailing lists. Thank you Craig Holl holl@uwplatt.edu ------------------------------ From: keenank@juno.com (Kevin R Keenan) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 01:05:29 EST Subject: Re: All Quiet > The list has been awfully quiet recently..... > > Is there that little going on, or can't anybody comment on what >is > going on? > > Greg Weigold > Columbia, SC We could tell you, but we'd have to kill you. ------------------------------ From: patrick@e-z.net Date: Fri, 14 Feb 1997 22:49:20 -0800 Subject: F-117 Noise I believe "stealthiness" is a relative term. After designing the exhaust system for the F-117 I suspect the quieter sound to be a byproduct of a more important objective, a cooler infrared signature. While in fact the noise reduction was minor and possibly insignificant. The plane is definitely not quiet. But in reality if the first sound the Iraqi's heard was a 2,000 lb. bomb literally whistling down the building's central air shaft, then this dicussion becomes somewhat academic. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 21:50:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom >Brett Davidson wrote: >It just sounds like a cobbling together of a few of the tamer current >rumours, but yep... I'm always amused by these stories about tours of >secret bases. >--Brett Yeah, I particularly liked the part about arranging a personal tour. Probably slipped on a pair of Lock-Mart coveralls and walked thru the gate. ( LOL) ;-) Wayne Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse) Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 22:03:02 -0600 Subject: Re: F-117 Noise >Partick wrote: >I believe "stealthiness" is a relative term. After designing the >exhaust system for the F-117 I suspect the quieter sound to be a >byproduct of a more important objective, a cooler infrared signature. >While in fact the noise reduction was minor and possibly insignificant. >The plane is definitely not quiet... >patrick cullumber A couple years ago, I was in the Mohave, when a B-2 flew over at a couple hundred knots. It was pretty noisy, but when it banked, you lost it in the sky. That is the real beauty of the B-2; not low profile, No Profile. Wayne Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Sun, 16 Feb 1997 17:31:05 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom On Sat, 15 Feb 1997, Wayne Busse wrote: > Yeah, I particularly liked the part about arranging a personal tour. > Probably slipped on a pair of Lock-Mart coveralls and walked thru > the gate. ( LOL) ;-) A friend of mine was once in the US Army... he said the surest way not to be pestered was to carry a clipboard and look like you're inspecting something... don't think that that would work tho' ;-) - --Brett ------------------------------ From: tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com (Tom Robison) Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 10:12:45 +0000 Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Brett writes: >"Here we have the horrible genetic hybrids between greys and humans, and >over there we have the Holy Grail, and in this room we have all the >evidence that shows who really shot JFK, and in this room we have the Loch >Ness Monster in a converted swimming pool, and this is our flying saucer >garage - the luxury model has burgundy velour upholstry, this is the >secret world domination conspiracy control room - aren't the blinking >lights pretty?, and in this wing we have the apartments for the retired >Nazi scientists... I hope you enjoyed your tour, come again - oh, and by >the way, if you mention this to anyone, you're a dead man." Isn't Amelia still there? And what happened to the cooler with all the green cheese in it? Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications (Soon to be Raytheon), Fort Wayne, IN Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of Hughes Defense Communications, Hughes Aircraft Corp, Hughes Electronics Corp, General Motors Corp, Raytheon, God, or my wife. ------------------------------ From: "Michael Quinlan" Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 08:53:57 -0700 Subject: Skunk-works Archives Does anyone know where the Skunk Works archives are currently located? They used to be at Oregon State University (orst.edu), but I can longer find them. Thanks, - -------------------------------------------------------- Michael A. Quinlan mikeq@primenet.com http://www.primenet.com/~mikeq "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any more!" - -------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: Ron and Louise Crawford Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 16:38:45 +0000 Subject: MiG-37B "Ferret" The model you are referring to is a miniature version of the 1:72 and 1:48 shell kits that appeared somewhat earlier. The same aircraft was modelled in 1:200 scale by FMS in Germany and, I believe, by Galoob Toys in the 'Micro Machines' series. As Art Hanley and others have noted the aircraft which it represented never existed. It is interesting, nonetheless, that that single line of speculation regarding what a Soviet Stealth might look like produced so many efforts to model it. The MiG-37 designation has also been associated from time to time with reported designs for single-engined, 'lightweight' fighters. Most recently the project also referred to as the I-42. That is reportedly at a standstill for lack of funding. Cheers Ron Crawford ------------------------------ From: Brett Davidson Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 13:57:05 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom On Mon, 17 Feb 1997, Tom Robison wrote: > Brett writes: > >lights pretty?, and in this wing we have the apartments for the retired > >Nazi scientists... I hope you enjoyed your tour, come again - oh, and by > >the way, if you mention this to anyone, you're a dead man." > > Isn't Amelia still there? And what happened to the cooler with all the > green cheese in it? Ah, well they've been transported into the parallel dimension where all of the missing socks from the wash go.... I didn't tell you this... - --Brett ------------------------------ From: Xelex@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 21:08:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Rumoured aircraft at Groom If your source claims that "Area 51" is a "branch of Nellis," then he is demonstrating his staggering ignorance. It sounds like he is putting you on, or trying to impress you with his "inside knowlege." The base is a remote operating location of the Air Force Flight Test Center (AFFTC) at Edwards AFB, California. The term "Area 51" has not been used since about 1978 (possibly 1979), when it became AFFTC Detachment 3. Peter W. Merlin "Just the facts, ma'am." ------------------------------ From: Wayne Busse Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 07:36:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Rumoured aircraft at Groom Xelex@aol.com wrote: > > If your source claims that "Area 51" is a "branch of Nellis," then he is > demonstrating his staggering ignorance. It sounds like he is putting you on, > or trying to impress you with his "inside knowlege." SNIP- > Peter W. Merlin > > "Just the facts, ma'am." Exactly, hence the entertainment value. And just when the list was snoozin'. - -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 8:39:45 nA Subject: Re: Rumor of 3 craft at Groom Sorry Brett: Socks are not going into a parallel dimension. What you are actually witnessing are secret early experiments in teleportation. You see, not only are socks disapppearing from the wash. When you pull your clothes out of the dryer at the laundromat, have you ever noticed how every so often you find socks that You didn't put in there? That's the arrival sequence! It can now be revealed that the Star Trek producers are taking dramatic license with their depiction of the Enterprise's transporter. In reality, Kirk, Spock and Bones climb into a giant washer/dryer to beam down to a planet. Art "Spin cycle--Energize!" Hanley These thoughts, such as they are, do not represent the thoughts of my employers, if in fact they choose to have any ------------------------------ From: Mental Jewelry Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 09:33:24 -0800 Subject: Stealth on TV Anyone catch the 1 hr tv show on stealth technology on the History Channel this weekend? They covered about 45 minutes on the F117 and then 15 on the B2. Interesting stuff. They mentioned that Lockheed had originally *not* been included in the Have Blue competition, even though they had experience in stealth on the SR71 (radar trapping), and they couldn't say anything to the Air Force because the SR71 was classified by the CIA. Finally Lockheed managed to convince the CIA to let them tell the AF, and Lockheed entered the competition. The final F117 was about twice the size of their Have Blue prototype. They showed one painted desert camoflauge colors (nice shots! they look much better matte black, though). By the time the B2 came along, computers were good enough that they could apply the stealth equations to curved surfaces, so they didn't have to use facets like on the F117. The first flying wing done years ago was 172 ft in wingspan. Oddly enough, when they were building prototypes for the AF, it was determined that for a plane to go x #miles and carry y amount of explosives, the optimum wingspan was 172ft. :) Some other stuff about the radar test facility, radar cross sections, ram absorbant materials, and composites that I don't remember offhand... - -- clew@cris.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2925 ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Tue, 18 Feb 97 12:59:08 EST Subject: RE: Stealth on TV > From:clew@cris.com RE:Subj: Stealth on TV > Anyone catch the 1 hr tv show on stealth technology on > the History Channel this weekend? They covered > about 45 minutes on the F117 and then 15 on the B2. > The final F117 was about twice the size of their Have Blue > prototype. They showed one painted desert camoflauge colors > (nice shots! they look much better matte black, though). > clew@cris.com According to Ben's book, the Camo pastel colors are better, but the Aircraft was painted black at the orders of the AF because" IIRC: "REAL MEN, DON,T FLY PASTEL AIRPLANES" \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | | | jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com | | john.szalay@worldnet.att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ From: "Bernie Rosen" Date: 18 Feb 97 11:23:54 -0800 Subject: Pastel AC - was Stealth on TV John Szalay writes: "According to Ben's book, the Camo pastel colors are better, but the Aircraft was painted black at the orders of the AF because IIRC: 'REAL MEN DON'T FLY PASTEL AIRPLANES'" I would venture the opinion that adrenalin levels (not to mention testosterone levels which implies a more sexist remark than I intend) and other attitude affecting hormones and body chemistries would vary depending on color. Somehow one does get the same sense of foreboding when seeing pilots run to their rainbow colored fighters to head off to battle. It would not surprise me if the Air Force has run studies on this. Would you fight the same from a pink F-16 as a black or silver one? For that matter, did Braniff crews feel different from other airline crews when flying their colored livery? .-----------------------------------. |^\ ____ | Bernie | | \_____' o o\___ | | (415) 506 2083 |\__=== N1BR _______ `> | WWCS Belmont CA |/ `--~~~~~===v===-v'| |___________________________________| o o ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V6 #16 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". 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