From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V6 #25 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 8 March 1997 Volume 06 : Number 025 In this issue: RE: RUMINT Re: RUMINT RE: RUMINT Stealthy List?? RE: Stealthy list Re: Skunk Works Digest V6 #24 stealth ships Re: stealth ships C-130 "Teheran Express" Must be something in the water... Model Kits of "Black Projects" re: C-130 "Teheran Express" re: C-130 "Teheran Express" AF is soliciting contracts for hypersonic prop. Glomar Explorer See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 08:08:47 EST Subject: RE: RUMINT > From:"drbob@creighton.edu" > Subj: RUMINT > > Loathe though I may be to rely upon rumor, I couldn't resist passing this > According to a second-hand discussion with (an) employee(s) of _Air Force > Magazine_, the Air Force will reveal "one or two" black projects in April > at the Air Force's 50th Anniversary celebration at Nellis AFB. That's it, > no other information. > > Lessee, more TACIT BLUE or the TR-3........... > > Dr Bob The East Coast version of the Nellis 50th Anniv. show is going to be here at Louisville, one of the items to be displayed will be the Predator UAV I suspect that the "other" item will be the LoFLYTE Waverider test article, much the same as they showed it at Oshkosh last year. (IMHO) On another subject there is an article in Machine Design magazine showing a British shipbuilding company design for a "Stealth" warship, called the SEA WRAITH STEALTH CORVETTE, for ASW, Naval gunfire, & Command/control duties. designed by Vosper Thornycroft LTD. THe ship is 440ft long crew size "about" 105. Ship has the flat facited sides along the F-117 style lines. To minimize radar reflections, the ship has shaped asymmetrically placed towers made of composite, with all antennas enclosed, one towers height can be varied to help "confuse" image recognition software programs. To prevent infared detection & disguse hot spots due to solar heating and exhaust emissions, a sprinkler systems can envelop the ship in a cooling mist, which is supposed to help hide the ship from the human eye as well. (distort shapes ?) Looking at the picture and reading the discription, it makes for a nice design if it ever gets built. Takes the SEA SHADOW design one futher. VERY different looking ship. one gun, with helicopter aft. (Machine Design, Feb 20 1997, page 35) BTW: there is a picture & article on LoFLYTE test article in the same issue on page 48 John Szalay jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com ------------------------------ From: Mary Shafer Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:12:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: RUMINT Maybe the variable-stability NT-33A simulator is going to fly by pretending to be them. First pass--NT-33 as F-15, second pass--NT-33 as F-16, third pass--NT-33 as first black project, and so on. This will be the NT-33's last appearance before its delivery to the AF Museum at Wright-Patterson. Our Chief Test Pilot and I are each supposed to fly in it when it's here at EDW for the TPS, just before it goes to Nellis, if I can find the money, finishing off my rate-limiting experiment. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 4 Mar 1997 drbob@creighton.edu wrote: > Loathe though I may be to rely upon rumor, I couldn't resist passing this > on to other members of the SkunkWorks discussion group. True or not, it > may provide some well-needed grist for our stealthy mill. > > According to a second-hand discussion with (an) employee(s) of _Air Force > Magazine_, the Air Force will reveal "one or two" black projects in April > at the Air Force's 50th Anniversary celebration at Nellis AFB. That's it, > no other information. > > Lessee, more TACIT BLUE or the TR-3........... > > Dr Bob > > ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 16:47:06 nA Subject: RE: RUMINT Ya know, There's already a vessel in service that defeats radar, uses water to minimize IR emissions and is deceptively hard to acquire and track optically (which is the downfall of most stealth ship designs). It's called a "submarine". Art Hanley To those that wouldst query, "Dost thou speaketh for thine employer?", I say thee, "Nay"! ------------------------------ From: blackbird@telis.org (Jon Price (PJ)) Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 07:01:54 GMT Subject: Stealthy List?? It would appear that this list has achieved pure stealth!! =20 Jon Price (PJ) *From the Eastern Slopes of* *The Beautiful High Sierra* *Bishop, California, USA* ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Thu, 6 Mar 97 07:21:39 EST Subject: RE: Stealthy list > From:"blackbird@telis.org" "Jon Price PJJ" > Subj: Stealthy List?? > > It would appear that this list has achieved pure stealth!! Well, what with the "shrinking defense budget", thats to be expected after all this is a perfectly safe world we live in now, the bear is now disarmed, there are NO security threats to peace and safety. NOW that you have had your laugh for the day. As a follow-up to my post of yesterday about the British stealth Corvette it has been pointed out to me that a picture and article is also available for viewing at Janes WWW site at; http://www.thomson.com/janes/jpict.html theres also an other feature covering a Swedish stealth corvette design at the same site..... \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | | | jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com | | john.szalay@worldnet.att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ From: ConsLaw@aol.com Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:53:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest V6 #24 In a message dated 3/5/1997 03:55:14 AM, you wrote: >From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl >Date: Mon, 3 Mar 1997 19:01:12 -0500 (EST) >Subject: New CREDIBLE SPORT info > >CNN Headline News showed (probably as a filler) a several minute long segment >about a Jane's Defense Weekly article about the YMC-130H CREDIBLE SPORT >project, including lots of (very impressive) black and white film footage >of test flights. I lost about a half years worth of email, which included >some additional information (like the serials of the 3 YMC-130H CREDIBLE >SPORT aircraft), otherwise I would post them here. > >The footage included a (non-fatal) crash landing of one of the aircraft, and >several "very short" take-off and landings. The aircraft bristled with >rockets, including 4 (apparently around the landing gear) facing straight >down, several "retractable" rockets facing forward and several facing aft, as >well as some stabilizing rockets at the tail and other places. > >At least the forward facing rockets could retract into pods (or coffin-like >covers) and the landing and starts were impressively fiery and also short >distance. The commentator made it sound like the project was continued after >the mission was cancelled, which makes me think that "SENIOR CITIZEN" could >be a follow-on project for the same purpose. > >I'd love to get a copy of the film! > >- -- Andreas I agree with you that Senior Citizen is probably a C-130 derivative. Paul McGinnis's sketch of the delta winged concept notwithstanding. - - Steve Hofer aka conslaw By the way: The web site for Smithsonian Air & Space has a digitized movie of the C-130 landing on the carrier Forrestal. I haven't checked it out yet. ------------------------------ From: stevenb@xpedite.com (Steven Barber) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 16:24:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: stealth ships I can remember reading about a stealthy corvette (ship,not car!) design about 20 years ago (shudder). That particular one called for an unconventionally broad hull, facetted design, misting system (which many ships have fitted to get rid of nuclear fallout, or did have at one time), collapsable masts/radomes and even pop-up weapons systems. Didn't come to anything, though. Probably in AW&ST or Jane's Defence Review. Disclaimer: No, this has nothing to do with my employers...-- ~ ------------------------------ From: freeman@netcom.com (Jay Reynolds Freeman) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 09:20:14 -0800 Subject: Re: stealth ships Forgetting for the moment that the "stealth corvette" was a ship, this posting puts me in mind of a "stealth car" -- not a Corvette, alas -- which an acquaintance of mine once ECO'd up for use on the New Jersey Turnpike -- notorious for radar traps. He had an early SAAB Sonnet, a front-engine, front-drive sports car with a fiberglass body and with lots of other use of plastic in construction. On inspection, he guesstimated that the main contribution to its radar cross-section, when viewed front on, was a cooling fan for the engine. The aftermarket provided a plastic replacement fan, which -- he asserted -- got the cross-section low enough that he could acquire the hostile threat (see the patrol car parked by the side of the road) and take evasive action (hit the brakes) before lock-on... -- Jay Freeman ------------------------------ From: patrick@e-z.net Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 09:45:36 -0800 Subject: C-130 "Teheran Express" I saw a short video on the weekend national news of a very interesting piece of history. It seems the "government" had someone (now who could that be?) convert a C-130 for a one time flight into Teheran, Iran. The purpose would have been to have made another attemp to rescue the Americans still held hostage in Iran after the aborted helicopter fiasco in the desert. The C-130 was stock looking except for four pods located externally 10 feet behind the cockpit and radially to the centerline at approximately the 30 and 60 degrees from vertical on both sides of the aircraft. The 5 second video showed the aircraft making its first landing. Several seconds before the pilot attempted to flair the aircraft for landing, the pods opened up facing forward and exposed two rocket motors per pod. The motors opened to approximately 30 degrees off the center axis and upon ignition, shot flames at least as far forward as the cockpit. Unfortunately this reverse thrust was so powerful at the height employed, the plane immediately dropped 20 or 30 feet very hard onto the runway. As I recall the right wing spar snapped between engines 3 and 4 causing the wing's tip to hit the the ground and tear the wing loose at the break. The plane skidded to a halt while rotating 90 degrees to starboard and facing the camera position. As the rocket motors were just completing their burn, larges quantities of escaping fuel were ignited in several areas on the planes starboard side. With all 8 rockets firing, it was quite a spectacular sight to see. I don't believe anyone was injured. ------------------------------ From: habu@why.net Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:48:33 -0800 Subject: Must be something in the water... Last night at our monthly meeting (Aero Club of Texas) I had the good fortune to be seated across from Harry Hillaker, the 'father' of the F-16. Hillaker, now 77, was recalling his days as an aeronautical engineering student at the University of Michigan (Class of 1940). He remembered one (ex)student (Class of 1932) who was doing some "post- graduate" work in the wind tunnel on a twin-boomed fighter design known as Model 22. Harry was so impressed with the Model 22 that he tried to enlist in the military as a fighter pilot. He was told he could not enlist because his status as a college student waived his eligibility. Harry said he could fix that by quitting college. The recruiter told him if he did that he would be immediately drafted and would most likely end up in the infantry instead of flight school. Harry decided to stay in school. The Model 22 went on to become the P-38 Lightning. The graduate student was Kelly Johnson. You know the rest of the story. Greg Fieser ------------------------------ From: Hank_Lapa@signalcorp.com (Hank Lapa) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 12:33:25 -0500 Subject: Model Kits of "Black Projects" An interesting article in the January Scale Aircraft Modelling magazine (fron the UK). Not much detail, but a broad survey of conjectural US aircraft "projects." For a bit of fun, have a look. Regards, Hank ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Fri, 7 Mar 97 10:51:01 nA Subject: re: C-130 "Teheran Express" ..and people wonder why we need the V-22. Art Hanley My employer has absolutely nothing to do with any of this and is no doubt glad of that fact ------------------------------ From: Side Show Marc Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 13:43:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: re: C-130 "Teheran Express" Every time I see a picture of "Credible Sport" I thank God for the Estes Model Rocketry Corporation. Right now I'm hard at work on my own personal project called "Credible Chevy Nova." ___________ Marc Studer ___________________________________________ "Life is a fair approximation of reality." - Jacques Portman "Two plus two equals Duh." - Jacques Portman ______________________________________ mstuder@spu.edu ___________ On Fri, 7 Mar 1997 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > ..and people wonder why we need the V-22. > > Art Hanley > > My employer has absolutely > nothing to do with any of this > and is no doubt glad of that fact > ------------------------------ From: Dan Zinngrabe Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 22:33:57 -0500 Subject: AF is soliciting contracts for hypersonic prop. from the USAF 1997 SBIRS listings (found at http://iridium.nttc.edu/solicitations/sbirs/dod971/af971.txt ) : AF97-180 TITLE: High Mach, Advanced Air-Breathing, Storable-Fueled Engine Technology Category: Exploratory Development OBJECTIVE: Develop key technologies for advanced cycle engines operating from Mach 0 to 8. DESCRIPTION: Engines of interest in the Mach 0 to 8 flight regime include combined cycle systems (such as turboramjets (TurboRJ) and air-turborockets (ATR)), pulse detonation engines (PDE) and other advanced concepts. The turbomachinery aspects of cycles such as the TurboRJs and ATR, while flexible, efficient and of great importance in the Mach 0 to 4 range, are not of interest under this topic. Technologies pertinent to the simplicity, low weight, low cost, and high specific impulse of the ramjet in the Mach 3 to 6 flight range and the scramjet from Mach 6 to 8 are of great interest. The PDE, another cycle of interest, combines the simplicity and efficiency of detonation wave combustion with the capability of air breathing at flight speeds of Mach 0 to 4 and ramjet or rocket operation above Mach 4. Technologies of interest directly involve the air, fuel, and/or combustion flow path, and use noncryogenic fuel. These include total engine concepts, the air intake systems; exit nozzles; solutions to reduce drag and total pressure losses; innovative fuel ignition, piloting and flameholding methods; solutions to reduce the length, weight, and/or cost of the inlet, combustor and nozzle and components; ramburner structures and materials, endothermic fuel reactor/engine issues; ramburner cooling techniques. Proof-of-concept testing is preferred, but analytical investigations will be considered at the Phase I level. PHASE I: Identify novel concepts and quantify their payoff when integrated into the selected high Mach propulsion system, and to conduct small-scale experiments to demonstrate concept feasibility. If a strictly analytical approach is proposed, sufficient analysis must be performed to demonstrate a high degree of concept feasibility and a plan for experimental direction in Phase II must be shown. PHASE II: Large scale development and testing which would include identification of appropriate facilities, and pertinent capabilities. POTENTIAL COMMERCIAL MARKET: High Mach, advanced airbreathing, storable-fueled engines have potential application to a multitude of vehicles which require efficient acceleration and cruise capabilities. Military application might include long- range, high speed aircraft for reconnaissance and strike missions, stand-off missiles, and drones. Commercial applications might include high-speed civil transport or passenger aircraft. Dual use applications include military/commercial space launch vehicles which require an airbreathing propulsion system for the initial atmospheric boost phase. The PEGASUS launch vehicle and similar systems could benefit from the use of airbreathing boost propulsion. REFERENCES: 1. Hay, I.W., Peschke, W.T., and Guile, R.N., "Hydrocarbon-Fueled Scramjet Combustor Investigation," AiAA-90-2337. 2. Roble, N.R., Petters, D.P., and Fisherkeller, K.J., "Further Exploration of an Airbreathing Pegasus Engine," AIAA 93-1832. ------------------------------ From: patrick@e-z.net Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:48:31 -0800 Subject: Glomar Explorer Feeling the need for redemption after posting the Credible Sport post long after the others (I had been inadvertently dropped from the mail list and not seen the other stories) I submit this to all you Cold War technocrats: The Glomar Explorer is currently in a shipyard in Portland Oregon for overhaul and conversion. It has been here several times over the years. For you young'ins, this is the ship with a center diving well that the CIA contracted with Hughes to go after sunken vessels. Specifically Russian vessels. They did this once in the Western Pacific where they plucked 4 nuclear missles from the wreckage of a Russian submarine laying in many thousands of feet of water. The ship is being refitted for use as a "deep drilling vessel". Isn't this the same story originally used when it was first built? Does any one have the current location of the Skunkworks stealth ship? It used to be tied up in south San Francisco Bay. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V6 #25 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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