From: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Subject: Skunk Works Digest V6 #33 Reply-To: skunk-works-digest@pmihwy.com Errors-To: skunk-works-digest-owner@pmihwy.com Precedence: Skunk Works Digest Monday, 17 March 1997 Volume 06 : Number 033 In this issue: Re: Global Hawk DCO- Irish Blessing (Conversation) Re: EAGLE CLAW Test & count Test re: Test Re: Test re: Global Hawk re: Global Hawk (fwd) Re[2]: Global Hawk Re: Global Hawk re: Global Hawk John.Boyd reference needed -repost re: Global Hawk (fwd) Eagle Claw aircraft See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: wings@sky.net (Wayne Busse) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 18:26:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Global Hawk >Jim wrote: >CNN Interactive (the web site) had an article recently that said the Air >Force was taking delivery of a new unmanned reconnaissance craft called >The Global Hawk. > > Can anyone comment on the difference between the Global Hawk and The >Darkstar URC. The Global Hawk Tier II Plus will be able to carry a 2,000-pound payload, fly more than 14,000 miles, remain airborne for 42 hours and fly as high as 65,000 feet, according to Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical. The aircraft has a survivability package that employs jammers, decoys and a radar warning receiver. It will carry several towed decoys, so that if one is hit, another will be reeled out. The Global Hawk's Allison's AE 3007H has successfully demonstrated operability and performance at altitudes up to 70,000 feet during testing at the Arnold Engineering Development Center (AEDC). This is basically the same engine powering the Cessna Citation. The Tier II Plus High Altitude Endurance Unmanned Aerial Vehicle Reconnaissance System includes radar, electro-optical, and infrared sensors. The radar can operate simultaneously with either the EO or the IR sensor enabling wide-area coverage and/or the ability to focus on specific targets for situation awareness, threat assessment or bomb damage assessment. It can be operated for long periods at very high altitudes--day and night, in any weather. Imagery can be data-linked in near real time, allowing numerous communication paths. Images can be found at: http://www.hac.com/products/images/hawkeosL.JPG http://www.sky.net/~wings/tier.jpg The Tier III Darkstar UAV, with a fuselage length of 15 feet and a wingspan of 69 feet, and powered by a single turbofan engine, can operate at ranges greater than 500 nautical miles and loiter for more than eight hours at altitudes greater than 45,000 feet. DarkStar's mission will be to penetrate aggressively defended airspace. The Darkstar crashed on it's second flight, destroying one of two prototypes. Image: http://www.boeing.com/gif/darkstar.gif Hope this is of help. Look for the Air Force to highlight the F-22 and the Global Hawk at it's 50th Celebration at Nellis. Wayne Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ From: Tom Robison Date: Sun, 16 Mar 1997 21:51:50 -0500 Subject: DCO- Irish Blessing (Conversation) God Bless All Here! (A traditional greeting when one enters an Irish pub.) An Irish Blessing May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be always at your back. May the sun shine warm upon your face, the rains fall soft upon your fields and, until we meet again, May God hold you in the palm of His hand. Happy St. Patrick's Day, everybody! Tom Robison Ossian, Indiana tcrobi@mindspring.com ------------------------------ From: drbob@creighton.edu Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 06:21:29 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: EAGLE CLAW Thanks for the fine summary of the EAGLE CLAW book. Although I do not have specific serial numbers of the airplanes involved, the KC-135s which were scheduled to refuel the special mission C-130s were the refuelable KC-135As from the 305th AREFW at Grissom AFB, Indiana. They were apparently based somewhere in the region. One of the pilots told me that the KC-135s were deployed to some location where USAF had never before been nor would likely ever return. I took that to mean a flair for the dramatic, but the tankers would have needed long runways, limiting the choices. Grissom's refuelable tankers, now all R-models at McConnell, have often been associated with these special and occasionally "black" operations, perhaps more so than the Queers from Beale. Robert ------------------------------ From: JOHN SZALAY Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 11:28:05 EST Subject: Test & count This is a test message, the first message that came thru the list this morning appeared to be repeated. As of 11:40am est 32 Skunkers have resubscribed to the sknunk-works list I did not check the digest version for resubs. and just to keep the topic correct. I.m going to be present at Louisville for the 50th anniv. airshow, course I,m already here. :) Am a little disappointed that the SR is not going to make it here, but atleast I,ll get a chance to see the B-2. \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | | | jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com | | john.szalay@worldnet.att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ From: Tom Robison Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:07:21 +0000 Subject: Test Just re-subbed, received one message from John Szalay, no repeats yet. Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ From: Earl Needham Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:55:10 -0800 Subject: re: Test Well -- This morning, I've seen two messages. I got the below one twice, and I only got the other one once, but I'm still waiting for the second copy. Earl Needham KD5XB Clovis, NM Phi Mu Alpha Sinfonia, Pi Chi, '76 KD5XB@AMSAT.ORG From the Radio Amateurs Code: Considerate, Loyal, Progressive, Friendly, Balanced, Patriotic > From: Tom Robison , on 3/17/97 1:07 PM: > Just re-subbed, received one message from John Szalay, no repeats yet. > > > Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com > Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: hendefd@duc.auburn.edu (Frank D. Henderson) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:11:20 -0600 Subject: Re: Test Hmmm... Maybe it's just some addresses. This was a repeat. - --frank > Just re-subbed, received one message from John Szalay, no repeats yet. > > > Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com > Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN > > > > > > > ------------------------------ From: ahanley@usace.mil Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 8:51:40 nA Subject: re: Global Hawk Global Hawk is a large, long endurance UAV. It will fly subsonically at altitudes above 65,000 feet, has a payload of 1,800 lbs and has endurance of up to 24 hrs on station. Dark Star is a smaller, penetrating companion. It can remain on station (not as far away as G. Hawk) for up to 8 hours at altitudes about 20,000 feet lower than Global Hawk. Its payload is around 1,000 lbs. It is considered a low observable vehicle, not a true stealth platform. Both programs are well behind schedule and are probably over budget, although they both are pushing the technology to a degree. Art Hanley In compliance with the Full Employment For Lawyers Act, I must state that the Above does not represent my employer's Views, only mine ------------------------------ From: rages@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov (Kathy Rages) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 14:46:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: re: Global Hawk (fwd) 2 copies, within 1/2 second of each other. Whatever is doing it, it ain't licked yet. Kathy Rages > Global Hawk is a large, long endurance UAV. It will fly subsonically at > altitudes above 65,000 feet, has a payload of 1,800 lbs and has endurance of up > to 24 hrs on station. Dark Star is a smaller, penetrating companion. It can > remain on station (not as far away as G. Hawk) for up to 8 hours at altitudes > about 20,000 feet lower than Global Hawk. Its payload is around 1,000 lbs. It > is considered a low observable vehicle, not a true stealth platform. > > Both programs are well behind schedule and are probably over budget, although > they both are pushing the technology to a degree. > > > Art Hanley > ------------------------------ From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 17:47:27 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Global Hawk Well.... I got 2 of these! Did anybody else? GW ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: re: Global Hawk Author: ahanley@usace.mil at Internet Date: 3/17/97 8:51 AM Global Hawk is a large, long endurance UAV. It will fly subsonically at altitudes above 65,000 feet, has a payload of 1,800 lbs and has endurance of up to 24 hrs on station. Dark Star is a smaller, penetrating companion. It can remain on station (not as far away as G. Hawk) for up to 8 hours at altitudes about 20,000 feet lower than Global Hawk. Its payload is around 1,000 lbs. It is considered a low observable vehicle, not a true stealth platform. Both programs are well behind schedule and are probably over budget, although they both are pushing the technology to a degree. Art Hanley In compliance with the Full Employment For Lawyers Act, I must state that the Above does not represent my employer's Views, only mine ------------------------------ From: Steve Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 18:43:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Global Hawk yep.. I got 2 of them too.. same with my subscription confirmation.. Steve King stevek@bmts.com ------------------------------ From: Date: Mon, 17 Mar 97 16:05:50 -0800 Subject: re: Global Hawk Comments by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Date : Monday, March 17, 1997 16:06:52 Forwarded to : internet[skunk-works@pmihwy.com] Comments: Please forgive if this is a duplicae. I'm not sure whether I succesfully made the transition to the new list by the time I sent this (still no confirmation, but I just got Steve's message). -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To : smtp@SPKSYS12@Servers[skunk-works@pmihwy.com] From : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Subject : re: Global Hawk Date : Monday, March 17, 1997 at 8:51:40 am PST - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Global Hawk is a large, long endurance UAV. It will fly subsonically at altitudes above 65,000 feet, has a payload of 1,800 lbs and has endurance of up to 24 hrs on station. Dark Star is a smaller, penetrating companion. It can remain on station (not as far away as G. Hawk) for up to 8 hours at altitudes about 20,000 feet lower than Global Hawk. Its payload is around 1,000 lbs. It is considered a low observable vehicle, not a true stealth platform. Both programs are well behind schedule and are probably over budget, although they both are pushing the technology to a degree. Art Hanley In compliance with the Full Employment For Lawyers Act, I must state that the Above does not represent my employer's Views, only mine ------------------------------ From: Ron and Louise Crawford Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 19:34:42 +0000 Subject: John.Boyd reference needed -repost I posted this over the weekend. Must have gotten eaten in the shuffle. Can anyone assist me in finding references to a book or monograph on air combat and/or maneuver warfare by Col.John Boyd. Col. Boyd, as many readers will know, was the developer of the notion of the OODA Loop and the principle of operating inside of the adversary's decision and response cycle. I have found work only in the form of conference proceedings. However, I have seen passing references to book, book chapter, or monograph publication. Nothing turns upon my library searches. Many thanks. Ron Crawford ------------------------------ From: rages@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov (Kathy Rages) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 16:45:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: re: Global Hawk (fwd) 2 copies again, this time separated by about 10 minutes. Art Hanley's two messages are the only ones I have received duplicates of this afternoon, and I don't think I've received duplicates of any others sent since the Great Resubscribing this morning. Kathy Rages > > Comments by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK > Date : Monday, March 17, 1997 16:06:52 > Forwarded to : internet[skunk-works@pmihwy.com] > Comments: > Please forgive if this is a duplicae. I'm not sure whether I succesfully made > the transition to the new list by the time I sent this (still no confirmation, > but I just got Steve's message). > [rest deleted] Kathy Rages ------------------------------ From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 21:49:09 -0500 (EST) Subject: Eagle Claw aircraft Thanks to Jim Rotramel for listing most of the lost EAGLE CLAW aircraft and Robert Hopkins for the KC-135 info. Here is a list of all the aircraft I know about so far, but corrections and additional information is very welcome. - -- Andreas Supply and tanker missions for deployment to and from Wadi Kena, Egypt: ======================================================================= * up to 20 Lockheed C-141B Starlifter of the 437th MAW, MAC, based at Charleston AFB, MS, used to transport ammunition and other equipment, as well as personnel, Delta Forces and Rangers to Wadi Kena, Egypt. * up to 15 Boeing KC-135A Stratotanker, from the 305th AREFW, SAC, based at Grissom AFB, IN, and additional SAC aircraft on rotational assignment to RAF Mildenhall, to be used to refuel the C-141B, EC-130H, MC-130Es and AC-130Hs, also several (6+) based at Diego Garcia for transfers. * 1 McDonnell Douglas C-9A Nightingale flying hospital of the 55th AAS, 435th TAW, MAC, based at Rhein-Main AB, Frankfurt, Germany, deployed to carry the wounded from Wadi Kena, Egypt, to Germany. Reconnaissance mission to Desert-I on April 2, 1980: ==================================================== * 1 CIA owned/operated De Havilland Canada DHC-6 Twin-Otter. * 1 Lockheed MC-130E-C Hercules, COMBAT TALON I, Special Operations aircraft of the 7th SOS, 7575th OG, Rhein-Main AB, Frankfurt, Germany, forward deployed to Oman, from Wadi Kena, Egypt, to extract the CIA operatives if necessary. NIGHT ONE operation on April 24, 1980: ====================================== Based at Masirah Island, Oman: - ------------------------------ * 3 Lockheed MC-130E Hercules, COMBAT TALON I, Special Operations aircraft of the 18th TFW, 313th AD, 5th AF, PACAF, based at Kadena AB, Okinawa, Japan. * 1 Lockheed MC-130E Hercules, COMBAT TALON I, Special Operations aircraft of the 8th SOS 'Black Birds', 1st SOW, TAC, based at Hurlburt Field, FL, used as spare and later returned to Wadi Kena, Egypt, and supposed to be used in Night Two operations (?). * 3 Lockheed EC-130H ABCCC aircraft of the 7th ACCS, 552nd AWACW, TAC, based at Keesler AFB, MS, but flown by pilots of the 8th SOS 'Black Birds', 1st SOW, TAC, based at Hurlburt Field, FL. Used as fuel transporter and ground refueller for the RH-53Ds at Desert-I. Selected mainly because they had in-flight refueling capability. Type Call Sign Serial Pilot ------- ----------- ------- ------------------------------------ * MC-130E DRAGON-1 ..-.... Capt. Bob Meller flew 1 hour ahead, surveyed and secured the Desert-I landing site, and returned back to Oman after the EC-130Hs arrived; * MC-130E DRAGON-2 ..-.... Capt. Marty Jubelt brought Delta Force and other personnel to the landing site, and returned back to Oman after the EC-130Hs arrived; * MC-130E DRAGON-3 ..-.... Capt. Steve Flemming brought Delta Force and other personnel as well as a SATCOM radio to the landing site, and returned after the accident with helicopter crews and other personnel after REPUBLIC-5 left; * EC-130H REPUBLIC-4 62-1809 Capt. Harold "Hal" L. Lewis Jr. landed at Desert-I and later refuelled RH-53Ds #3, #4, and #8, before the #3 helicopter struck the aircraft from behind and above while trying to move out of the way, so REPUBLIC-4 could take-off; 5 of the crew were killed: Capt. Harold L. Lewis, Jr., USAF, aircraft commander, Capt. Lyn D. McIntosh, USAF, copilot, Capt. Richard "Rick" L. Bakke, USAF, navigator, Capt. Charles T. McMillan II, USAF, navigator, T.Sgt. Joel C. Mayo, USAF, flight engineer, and 2 were injured: S.Sgt. Joseph Beyers, USAF, radio operator and Lt. Jeff Harrison, USAF, safety pilot. A Delta Force soldier, Sgt. Paul Lawrence was also burned, while rescuing Beyers; * EC-130H REPUBLIC-5 ..-.... Capt. Russ Tharp landed at Desert-I and later refuelled RH-53D #1, and returned with equipment, troops, personnel and wounded to Oman after the accident (rough take-off); * EC-130H REPUBLIC-6 ..-.... Maj. Jerry Uttaro landed at Desert-I and later refuelled RH-53Ds #2 and #7, and returned with equipment, troops, personnel and wounded to Oman as the last aircraft; * MC-130E (?) ..-.... ? stayed as reserve at Masirah, and maybe returned later back to Wadi Kena, Egypt, for Night Two operations (?); Aircraft involved include the following: + EC-130H; serial: 62-1809; built as Model 382 C-130E-...-LM; c/n 3770; modified as C-130E-II ABCCC aircraft; redesignated EC-130E; modified to EC-130H with in-flight refuelling receptacle; used in operation EAGLE CLAW with call sign REPUBLIC-4; burned out at Desert-I refuelling site after collision with RH-53D; + EC-130H; serial: 62-1818; built as Model 382 C-130E-...-LM; c/n 3780; modified as C-130E-II ABCCC aircraft; redesignated EC-130E; modified to EC-130H with in-flight refuelling receptacle; + EC-130H; serial: 62-1857; built as Model 382 C-130E-...-LM; c/n 3821; modified as C-130E-II ABCCC aircraft; redesignated EC-130E; modified to EC-130H with in-flight refuelling receptacle; + MC-130E-C; serial: 64-056.; built as Model 382; C-130E-...-LM; c/n ....; modified as C-130E-I "SKYHOOK" with Fulton STAR system; redesignated MC-130E-C "RIVET CLAMP"; modified to C-130H(CT) "COMBAT TALON" with new T56-A-15 engines; redesignated MC-130E "COMBAT TALON I" and later brought to Mod 70 standard with TFR in droop nose; supposedly damaged during operation EAGLE CLAW (which could mean the hard landing of DRAGON-1); + MC-130E-S; serial: 64-0572; built as Model 382 C-130E-...-LM; c/n 4090; modified as NC-130E and later MC-130E-S "RIVET SWAP" without Fulton STAR system; was 1995 operational with 1st SOS, 353rd SOG, PACAF, Kadena AB, Okinawa, Japan; Based on board the USS Nimitz (CVN-68), sailing in the Gulf of Oman: - -------------------------------------------------------------------- * 8 Sikorsky RH-53D Sea Stallion mine-sweeping helicopters of HM-12 'Sea Dragons' and/or HM-14 'Vanguard' or 'Sea Stallion', Atlantic Fleet, based at NAS Norfolk, VA, flown by USMC pilots from several units, which were at the time assigned to CTF-70, the battle force of the 7th Fleet, Pacific Fleet, USN. * Additionally, 2 CH-53 from the Nimitz flew escort for the returning RH-53D, BLUEBEARD-5. Type Call Sign Serial Pilot ------- ----------- ------- ------------------------------------ * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-1 ...... Lt. Col. Ed Seifert landed in desert about 300 nautical miles from Desert-I after encountering 2nd sand storm, but later continued on to Desert-I; damaged by flying debris after collision, and abandoned; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-2 ...... B.J. McGuire landed in desert about 300 nautical miles from Desert-I after encountering 2nd sand storm, but later continued on to Desert-I; arrived there after flying for 2 hours with hydraulic malfunction; deemed unserviceable, and was abandoned; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-3 158761 Maj. Jim Schaefer collided with EC-130H at Desert-I refuelling site and burned out; 3 crew members died: S.Sgt. Dewey L. Johnson, USMC, Sgt. John D. Harvey, USMC, and CPL George N. Holmes, Jr., USMC, and 2 were seriously injured: Maj. Jim Schaefer, USMC, pilot and Capt. Leslie Petty, USMC, copilot; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-4 ...... Barney Oldfield damaged by flying debris after collision; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-5 ...... Rodney Davis returned to Nimitz after getting lost in 2nd sand storm, just 145 nautical miles from Desert-1; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-6 ...... Bill Hoff aborted because of BIM warning; aircraft landed safely about 145 nautical miles inside of Iran, and was abandoned; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-7 ...... L.C. Walt abandoned (apparently completely intact) at Desert-I after the collision; * RH-53D BLUEBEARD-8 ...... Capt. Jimmy Linderman stopped to pick up the crew of BLUEBEARD-6; damaged by flying debris after collision; Helicopter involved include the following: + RH-53D; serial: 158686; abandoned/destroyed; + RH-53D; serial: 158744; abandoned/destroyed; + RH-53D; serial: 158750; abandoned/destroyed; + RH-53D; serial: 158753; abandoned/destroyed; + RH-53D; serial: 158758; abandoned/destroyed; + RH-53D; serial: 158761; used in operation EAGLE CLAW with call sign BLUEBEARD-3; burned out at Desert-I refuelling site after collision with EC-130H; NIGHT TWO operation, planned for April 25, 1980: ================================================ Based at Wadi Kena, Egypt: - -------------------------- * 4 Lockheed MC-130E Hercules, COMBAT TALON I, Special Operations aircraft, of the 8th SOS 'Black Birds', 1st SOW, TAC, based at Hurlburt Field, FL, to be used to transport Rangers to the airport at Manzariyey. * 4 Lockheed AC-130H Hercules, PAVE SPECTRE II, gunships of the 16th SOS, 1st SOW, TAC, based at Hurlburt Field, FL. 3 were intended for close air support and one as a spare. * 11 to 15 Boeing KC-135A Stratotanker, from the 305th AREFW, SAC, based at Grissom AFB, IN, several of which with the Air Refuelling Receiver System installed, to be used to refuel the MC-130Es and AC-130Hs. * as well as several Lockheed C-141B Starlifter of the 437th MAW, MAC, based at Charleston AFB, MS, to transport equipment and personnel back. Based at Dahran, Saudi Arabia: - ------------------------------ * 3 Lockheed C-141B Starlifter of the 437th MAW, MAC, based at Charleston AFB, MS, to extract the Delta Forces and hostages from Manzariyey, two equipped as "hospitals" (one as spare) and one as "airliner". Instead both specially equipped medevac aircraft flown to Masirah, Oman, to evacuate the wounded to Wadi Kena, Egypt, after the aborted mission. Abbreviations: ============== AAS = Aeromedical Airlift Squadron AB = Air Base ABCCC = Airborne Battlefield Command and Control Center (or: Airborne Battlefield Command, Control, and Communications) ACCS = Airborne Command and Control Squadron AD = Air Division AF = Air Force AFB = Air Force Base AREFW = Air Refuelling Wing AWACW = Airborne Warning And Control Wing BIM = Blade Inspection Method Capt. = Captain CPL = Corporal CTF = Combined Task Force CVN = Nuclear-powered multi-purpose aircraft Carrier (Carrier, aViation, Nuclear-powered) HM = Helicopter Mine Countermeasures Squadron (also HELMINERON) Lt. = Lieutenant MAC = Military Airlift Command Maj. = Major MAW = Military Airlift Wing NAS = Naval Air Station OG = Operations Group PACAF = Pacific Air Forces RAF = Royal Air Force base SAC = Strategic Air Command SATCOM = Satellite Communications system Sgt. = Sergeant SOG = Special Operations Group SOS = Special Operations Squadron SOW = Special Operations Wing S.Sgt. = Staff Sergeant TAC = Tactical Air Command TAW = Tactical Air Wing TFR = Terrain Following Radar TFW = Tactical Fighter Wing T.Sgt. = Tech Sergeant USMC = United States Marine Corps USN = United States Navy USS = United States Ship - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ End of Skunk Works Digest V6 #33 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@pmihwy.com". 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