From: owner-skunk-works-digest@ (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V6 #38 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Saturday, March 22 1997 Volume 06 : Number 038 In this issue: Mach 25 Re: Arizona "UFO" NEW LIST ADDRESS AND SOFTWARE test Re: UFO & Mary Re: Arizona "UFO" Re: UFO & Mary Re: Arizona "UFO" Re: modest proposal Re[2]: Arizona "UFO" Re: Arizona "UFO" (fwd) Re[2]: modest proposal Re: Arizona "UFO" Re: Hypersonic Aircraft rolls into Nellis (hypothetically) Re: Hypersonic Vehicle Rools Into Nellis (hypothetically) Re: Arizona "UFO" Re: Arizona "XXX" See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 15:24:49 -0500 (EST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Mach 25 I got some rumors of a military Mach 25 aircraft (maybe spacecraft) that it is based in Area 51. Maybe a unmanned one. The shape looks circular or ecliptic. Any match to currents "known Black Programs"??? May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 13:28:22 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" >I don't know why Mary's fuse blew, I don't understand why she blew either. > and I won't engage in a flame war here, >but I want to point out that I sent the original post because it talked about >a big, slow moving, triangle flying around in the US. Although I don't believe that such things are black projects, I think a fair number on this list actually do. I find no problem therefore that they are fair territory for intelligent, scholarly, discussion. Not junk from the UFO tabloids. >If one would adhere to the charter of this list as rigidly as implied by >Mary's and several following posts, then the majority of subjects posted here >is off-charter. I am not sure why posting general information about Air Force >One is so much more on-charter than what I posted -- but nobody complained >about that. Exactly! When I joined this list years ago, skunk works was never interpretted solely as Skunk Works. I really don't understand how that all started. One must realize that many aerospace firms have "skunk works" organizations. >Unless I get a lot of letters from list subscribers, asking me to limit my >posts to 100% on charter -- posts regarding LMSW aircraft and nothing else -- >I will continue to post about topics that seem interesting and somewhat >related, like unidentified, black, triangular aircraft, including the "TR-3A >Black Manta", "Aurora", "Senior Citizen", "Silent Vulcan", and "A-17", the >Boscombe Down incident, "Credible Sport" and "Eagle Claw" aircraft, and other >black projects, like "Tacit Blue", etc. In my opinion, they're part of the mix. But, let's not rehash old junk. Let's do quality aerospace oriented research. Perhaps the list name should be changed to black-aircraft or somesuch. > If you are interested in aliens at Area 51, there >are other mailing lists more appropriate than this one for that subject. Oh really! Believe me Mary and others, you're not the only ones who are frustrated here, but I'm frustrated for the opposite reasons! If there were an adequate number of aerospace engineers and real aerospace enthusiasts (these people would be aerospace enthusiasts FIRST) who were interested in UFOs (whatever they are) as aerospace phenomenon, I would make a bigger issue of this as being actually very applicable to this list!!!! Don't worry, you can all breathe again, I won't, only because the number of people interested in what I'm talking about in the whole world can probably be counted on one hand. The truth is Steven, I have found NO LIST, where UFO's are treated and really researched as aerospace phenomenon. But may I say, that because of the recent list reorg. I didn't see all the posts until someone sent me a digest. Upon seeing the digest, I was impressed that people were conducting themselves fairly well regarding these lights. So I don't see the point of Mary's outburst. I find this subject interesting and quite applicable, but I'll yield to traditional approaches. > If >there are sightings of a phenomena like lights moving around over the >countryside, it's probably not appropriate here until there's some indication >that it's not a mirage or Army flares but may be caused by some aircraft or >rocket. >Or let's put it another way: I think that information on the triangle sighted >over Belgium and the F16s being sent to track the radar trace is a valid >topic. I don't think a bunch of lights seen in the sky is *until* the more >obvious possibilities have been ruled out. These are some good suggestions Steven, but, reading Mary and the others who share her animosity, I don't think they would agree with you. John Szalay writes: > ... >While I am also for free speech, I also believe that self-displine , if not >used, needs to be enforced, in the case of a mailing list, that means moderated I agree with most of your statement, namely the self-discipline part. In other words, we are a group of people with varied interests. We all don't agree with each other on certain topics. Perhaps we can have the discipline to treat each other civilly! In other words, a gentler nudge that one is growing impatient, and the kindness of others to then take it offline, is preferred. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 16:47:30 -0500 (EST) From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: NEW LIST ADDRESS AND SOFTWARE Hello: Well, in an attempt to solve the duplicate problem here, I've moved the list and digest to the following addresses: skunk-works@netwrx1.com skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com All users, commands, messages and digests were maintained in the move. There is a forward setup between the old addresses to the new ones, so there will not be a problem with sending mail until you start to use the new address. By doing this move the list is now located on my own server (so I have direct instant root access) and also is running the latest version of majordomo list software 1.94.1. Hopefully this will allow us to solve the duplicates problem very quickly. If you have any questions or problems please contact me. George R. Kasica President Netwrx Consulting Inc. P.O. Box 27242 West Allis WI 53227-9998 (414)541-8579 VOICE --- (800)816-2568 FAX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: test This is a test. Please ignore George R. Kasica President Netwrx Consulting Inc. P.O. Box 27242 West Allis WI 53227-9998 (414)541-8579 VOICE --- (800)816-2568 FAX ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:17:38 -0800 (PST) From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Subject: Re: UFO & Mary > Sorry Tom, I also have to agree with Mary on this one, UFO's devotees have > their own message bases, and mailing lists. At last count , I found at least > 5 lists for them. Actually there are closer to ten times that many. > I too joined this list to read about the Skunk-works and their products. > While I am also for free speech, I also believe that self-displine , if not > used, needs to be enforced, in the case of a mailing list, that means moderated > I don,t like moderated lists, but if it means Keeping valuable resources such > as Mary, then I will be glad to volunteer as a moderator for the list. The big problem with having "UFO" talk is that it then becomes much too easy for the list to be bombarded by the far-out-wacko-nutcase material that is often the norm for that genere. We've already seen that happen here in the past. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 14:26:10 -0800 (PST) From: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" > As long as an Unidentified Flying Object remains unidentified and as = > long as LMSW is in the business of making airplanes which try very hard = > to be unidentifiable, then we should try to give odd, and possibly = > silly, sightings at least the briefest benefit of the doubt. Fine, but discussing "silly sightings" is NOT the purpose of this list. > I don't see = > that lights in the sky are any less valid a discussion topic than black = > triangles or donut-on-a-rope contrails.=20 Lights in the sky are not a valid discussion topic *here* unless there is some serious reason to suspect they are related to a black project. > In fact, it seems to me, that the black triangle and silent vulcan = > reports, which were once commonly dismissed as UFO nonsense, are now = > receiving more serious consideration on this list Not really, since there has been nothing to elevate them to a more "serious" level. It remains nothing more than the level of totally unsubstantiated UFO urban myth. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 97 15:00:38 nA From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: Re: UFO & Mary I'm going to weigh in decisively on both sides of the fence: I'm absolutely in Mary's camp regarding the UFO posts that are vague messages about unknown lights or conspiracies, etc. However, I also agree with Andreas that this list is particularly valuable for discussion of "skunk works" and stealthy types of subjects, and should not just be "The Lockheed Show". For example, suppose at the Nellis airshow next month, what if a black triangular shaped aircraft lands and it's announced that it just flew from Kadena, Japan in 90 minutes. If it parks at the Boeing display does that mean it would be off-limits here? Art "Waffles" Hanley Sorry, Tom, but this Really doesn't have Anything to do with The position of my Employers, whoever they May be ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 17:59:50 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 larry@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > If you are interested in aliens at Area 51, there > >are other mailing lists more appropriate than this one for that subject. > > Oh really! > > Believe me Mary and others, you're not the only ones who are frustrated here, > but I'm frustrated for the opposite reasons! If there were an adequate number of > aerospace engineers and real aerospace enthusiasts (these people would be aerospace > enthusiasts FIRST) who were interested in UFOs (whatever they are) as aerospace > phenomenon, I would make a bigger issue of this as being actually very applicable > to this list!!!! Don't worry, you can all breathe again, I won't, only because > the number of people interested in what I'm talking about in the whole world can > probably be counted on one hand. > > The truth is Steven, I have found NO LIST, where UFO's are treated and > really researched as aerospace phenomenon. Well, then, start one yourself. Don't hijack this list, which is a perfectly good list for discussing, primarily, the products of LMSW and, secondarily, other _real_ black programs. I see no reason why I, who am absolutely uninterested in UFOlogy, should become a captive audience for those who are, just because I'm on a mailing list dedicated to the discussion of "known" black vehicles. This mailing list started out as a place to discuss the SR-71, U-2, and F-117. As other Skunk Works products came to light, they were added to the list of acceptable targets, just as were other black aircraft from various manufacturers. The emphasis has always been on vehicles that are known to exist. If you're not willing to do the work to set up your own list discussing research into UFOs as aeronautics phenomena, then you don't deserve to have one as far as I'm concerned. And you really don't have the right to steal this one. If there are as many aerospace engineers and enthusiasts as you hope, then they will gladly join your list. But you're not going to get the support you're looking for by trying to enslave the readers of skunk-works to further your own agenda. > I agree with most of your statement, namely the self-discipline part. In other > words, we are a group of people with varied interests. We all don't agree with > each other on certain topics. Perhaps we can have the discipline to treat each > other civilly! In other words, a gentler nudge that one is growing impatient, > and the kindness of others to then take it offline, is preferred. So I can drag any topic I want onto this list, as long as I do it civilly? Radical feminism? The superiority of Harley-Davidson motorcycles? Lists of the histories of all 5000+ F-4 Phantom IIs? GIFs of my collies? British military strategy from 1800 to 1830? Somehow, I don't think that's what was meant by self-discipline. Rather, the self-discipline that was called for by the poster whose words I inadvertently lost is, I think, the discipline to adhere to the topic, the charter, of this mailing list, the discipline to refrain from wandering too far afield from black aircraft no matter how important other topics are to you personally. Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:08:42 -0500 From: "James J. Bjaloncik" Subject: Re: modest proposal JOHN SZALAY wrote: > > > > > Would everybody agree that the contents of the Federation of American > > Scientists/John Pike's web page: > > > > http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery > > > > fit with the specific areas which the skunk-works mailing list is > > designed to address ? > > > > J. Pharabod > > > > Yes, With RESERVATIIONS. > >I am also in agreement, but John, I'd like an explanantion regarding your comment "with RESERVATIONS". By the way, I just resubscribed to the digest last night (took myself off due to the previous request in order that George could solve our multiple copies problem (which from here looks like it's still occuring, at least in my e-mail anyway) and have missed out on the Tom and Mary et.al. battle. Although I've read a few exchanges, I'd still like a further explanation as to what I missed. Cordially, Jim Bjaloncik jjbjal@gwis.com "Nothing in Moderation" E. Kovacs > John Szalay > jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com > john.szalay@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:15:01 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Subject: Re[2]: Arizona "UFO" I really think that we ought to just drop this thread and hope that apologizes to Mary are made OFF-LINE where appropriate. Let's try to self-discipline ourselves away from the "lights in the sky" postings, unless there's some reason to believe they may be from a 'black' aerospace project, ie: '...the mysterious lights were followed by multiple sonic booms that were reportedly heard from Seattle to Edwards AFB... ' or something like that. In other words, something more substantial than atmospheric inversions, swamp gas, and reflected street lights. I think we all know what is supposed to be on this list, let's just try to keep it that way. Can we just go on now? Thanks GW Greg Weigold Supr. Tech Support/DBA Policy Management Systems Corp. Columbia, SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" Author: dadams@netcom.com (Dean Adams) at INTERNET Date: 3/21/97 2:26 PM > As long as an Unidentified Flying Object remains unidentified and as = > long as LMSW is in the business of making airplanes which try very hard = > to be unidentifiable, then we should try to give odd, and possibly = > silly, sightings at least the briefest benefit of the doubt. Fine, but discussing "silly sightings" is NOT the purpose of this list. > I don't see = > that lights in the sky are any less valid a discussion topic than black = > triangles or donut-on-a-rope contrails.=20 Lights in the sky are not a valid discussion topic *here* unless there is some serious reason to suspect they are related to a black project. > In fact, it seems to me, that the black triangle and silent vulcan = > reports, which were once commonly dismissed as UFO nonsense, are now = > receiving more serious consideration on this list Not really, since there has been nothing to elevate them to a more "serious" level. It remains nothing more than the level of totally unsubstantiated UFO urban myth. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:24:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" (fwd) I'm resending this because I used the old pmihwy address rather than the new netwrx1 address for the mailing list. It may end up as a duplicate. If so, my apologies. Mary On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 larry@ichips.intel.com wrote: > > If you are interested in aliens at Area 51, there > >are other mailing lists more appropriate than this one for that subject. > > Oh really! > > Believe me Mary and others, you're not the only ones who are frustrated here, > but I'm frustrated for the opposite reasons! If there were an adequate number of > aerospace engineers and real aerospace enthusiasts (these people would be aerospace > enthusiasts FIRST) who were interested in UFOs (whatever they are) as aerospace > phenomenon, I would make a bigger issue of this as being actually very applicable > to this list!!!! Don't worry, you can all breathe again, I won't, only because > the number of people interested in what I'm talking about in the whole world can > probably be counted on one hand. > > The truth is Steven, I have found NO LIST, where UFO's are treated and > really researched as aerospace phenomenon. Well, then, start one yourself. Don't hijack this list, which is a perfectly good list for discussing, primarily, the products of LMSW and, secondarily, other _real_ black programs. I see no reason why I, who am absolutely uninterested in UFOlogy, should become a captive audience for those who are, just because I'm on a mailing list dedicated to the discussion of "known" black vehicles. This mailing list started out as a place to discuss the SR-71, U-2, and F-117. As other Skunk Works products came to light, they were added to the list of acceptable targets, just as were other black aircraft from various manufacturers. The emphasis has always been on vehicles that are known to exist. If you're not willing to do the work to set up your own list discussing research into UFOs as aeronautical phenomena, then you don't deserve to have one as far as I'm concerned. And you really don't have the right to steal this one. If there are as many aerospace engineers and enthusiasts as you hope, then they will gladly join your list. But you're not going to get the support you're looking for by trying to enslave the readers of skunk-works to further your own agenda. > I agree with most of your statement, namely the self-discipline part. In other > words, we are a group of people with varied interests. We all don't agree with > each other on certain topics. Perhaps we can have the discipline to treat each > other civilly! In other words, a gentler nudge that one is growing impatient, > and the kindness of others to then take it offline, is preferred. So I can drag any topic I want onto this list, as long as I do it civilly? Radical feminism? The superiority of Harley-Davidson motorcycles? Lists of the histories of all 5000+ F-4 Phantom IIs? GIFs of my collies? British military strategy from 1800 to 1830? Somehow, I don't think that's what was meant by self-discipline. Rather, the self-discipline that was called for by the poster whose words I inadvertently lost is, I think, the discipline to adhere to the topic, the charter, of this mailing list, the discipline to refrain from wandering too far afield from black aircraft no matter how important other topics are to you personally. Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:25:45 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Subject: Re[2]: modest proposal Probably better left alone, so we can get past this! Somebody can bring you up to date off-line I hope. Thanks GW Greg Weigold Policy Management Systems Corp. Columbia, SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: modest proposal Author: "James J. Bjaloncik" at INTERNET Date: 3/21/97 6:08 PM JOHN SZALAY wrote: > > > > > Would everybody agree that the contents of the Federation of American > > Scientists/John Pike's web page: > > > > http://www.fas.org/irp/mystery > > > > fit with the specific areas which the skunk-works mailing list is > > designed to address ? > > > > J. Pharabod > > > > Yes, With RESERVATIIONS. > >I am also in agreement, but John, I'd like an explanantion regarding your comment "with RESERVATIONS". By the way, I just resubscribed to the digest last night (took myself off due to the previous request in order that George could solve our multiple copies problem (which from here looks like it's still occuring, at least in my e-mail anyway) and have missed out on the Tom and Mary et.al. battle. Although I've read a few exchanges, I'd still like a further explanation as to what I missed. Cordially, Jim Bjaloncik jjbjal@gwis.com "Nothing in Moderation" E. Kovacs > John Szalay > jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com > john.szalay@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:16:28 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" Mary responds: > Don't hijack this list, >I see no reason why I, ... should >become a captive audience ... > you don't deserve to >have one as far as I'm concerned. > And you really don't have the right to >steal this one. > But you're not going to get the support >you're looking for by trying to enslave the readers of skunk-works to >further your own agenda. >So I can drag any topic I want onto this list, as long as I do it civilly? >Radical feminism? The superiority of Harley-Davidson motorcycles? Lists >of the histories of all 5000+ F-4 Phantom IIs? GIFs of my collies? >British military strategy from 1800 to 1830? >Somehow, I don't think that's what was meant by self-discipline. Rather, ... > I think, the discipline to adhere to the topic, the >charter, of this mailing list, > the discipline to refrain from wandering >too far afield from black aircraft no matter how important other topics >are to you personally. Mary, I don't have to put up with this! You're obviously not even interested in discussing this intelligently! Don't waste my time! Also, this isn't your list! Or perhaps it is and I didn't realize it! If it is your list I will immediately resign. Until then, I will continue to do what I have done and post what I feel matches my understanding of this mail list. So go crawl back under your rock! Larry "Towards The Unknown" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 18:39:26 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hypersonic Aircraft rolls into Nellis (hypothetically) >However, I also agree with Andreas that this list is particularly valuable >for discussion of "skunk works" and stealthy types of subjects, and should >not just tbe "The Lockheed Show". For example, suppose at the Nellis >airshow next month, what if a black triangular shaped aircraft lands and >it's announced that it just flew from Kadena, Japan in 90 minutes. If it >parks at the Boeing display does that mean it would be off-limits here? That would be REALLY cool! In fact, what would be really, really cool is if Boeing (or the birds manufacturer) then claimed the X-prize! Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 19:05:49 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hypersonic Vehicle Rools Into Nellis (hypothetically) >> For example, suppose at the Nellis >>airshow next month, what if a black triangular shaped aircraft lands and >>it's announced that it just flew from Kadena, Japan in 90 minutes. If it >>parks at the Boeing display does that mean it would be off-limits here? >That would be REALLY cool! > >In fact, what would be really, really cool is if Boeing (or the birds >manufacturer) then claimed the X-prize! Of course they couldn't claim the prize for a government funded project. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997 22:43:27 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Arizona "UFO" Mary Shafer wrote: >So I can drag any topic I want onto this list, as long as I do it civilly? >Radical feminism? The superiority of Harley-Davidson motorcycles? Lists >of the histories of all 5000+ F-4 Phantom IIs? GIFs of my collies? >British military strategy from 1800 to 1830? I don't know about GIFs of your collies, but a list of the histories of all 5000+ F-4 Phantom IIs would be most appreciated! Or should I...? :) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:43:41 From: David Subject: Re: Arizona "XXX" Andreas writes: >I don't know why Mary's fuse blew, and I won't engage in a flame war here, >but I want to point out that I sent the original post because it talked about >a big, slow moving, triangle flying around in the US. Agreed .Interesting that the list charter allows for discussion of the Aurora and TR3a alleged black projects that don't have thousands of eye witness sightings all over the world that these slow moving triangles have. As far as Dean's comments about urban myth...well...these are aircraft Dean not spaceships. Talk to people who've seen them. > >If one would adhere to the charter of this list as rigidly as implied by >Mary's and several following posts, then the majority of subjects posted here >is off-charter. I am not sure why posting general information about Air Force >One is so much more on-charter than what I posted -- but nobody complained >about that. I'd like to hear the reason for those off topic posts too. > >Unless I get a lot of letters from list subscribers, asking me to limit my >posts to 100% on charter -- posts regarding LMSW aircraft and nothing else -- >I will continue to post about topics that seem interesting and somewhat >related, like unidentified, black, triangular aircraft, including the "TR-3A >Black Manta", "Aurora", "Senior Citizen", "Silent Vulcan", and "A-17", the >Boscombe Down incident, "Credible Sport" and "Eagle Claw" aircraft, and other >black projects, like "Tacit Blue", etc. I'd like to thank you Andreas for the quality of your postings, not just on black projects but across the board. This list has some first rate members, most of whom don't work for NASA or include their job description in their sig file. I found that post to MS offensive and here on S-W we're not used to that kind of junk, nor should we get used to it. But I have to say that I also find the tone of some posts from MS leave much to be desired, though it seems whatever she says is fine. I found the upper case rant childish even though I agreed with much of it. I don't want to discuss vague lights in the sky or aliens here, but I have an instinctive dislike of ultimata and autocratic attitudes. David ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #38 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@netwrx1.com" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "georgek@netwrx1.com". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for e-mail request by sending a message to majordomo@netwrx1.com with no subject and a line containing "get skunk-works-digest vNN.nMMM" (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). You can get a list of all available digests by sending the one line command "index skunk-works-digest". If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica