From: owner-skunk-works-digest@ (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V6 #51 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Monday, May 19 1997 Volume 06 : Number 051 In this issue: Re: COMMANDO SOLO Re: MiGs in the US Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #50 MMSA MiGs in US U-2s in UK Contrail sighting Re: Contrail sighting Military Hypersonics report on WWW YF-22 Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th off-topic Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th Rutan Interview C130 programs Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th Please end this thread Re: MiGs in the US See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 21:51:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: COMMANDO SOLO Larry Gentile wrote: >They showed a recently declassified program. The name of the program was >COMMANDO SOLO. It is a modified C-130 Hercules outfitted with the capability >to infiltrate any FM/AM/Military/Television/Short Wave signal. It was used >in Desert Storm to broadcast propaganda over Iraqi radio and television. and Wayne Busse responded: >The program using the EC-130E, known as "Rivet Rider is part of the >Air Force Special Operations Command has been used in Haiti and Bosnia. >The EC-130E is operated by the 193 SOG, an ANG unit in Pennsylvania. >Try these URL's: >http://www.hqafsoc.hurlburt.af.mil/193rd.html >There's a really nice photo at the above location. >More info on the program: >http://users.deltanet.com/%7Eecpsyops/ The program is of course not recently de-classified. It is as classified (or un-classified) as it was the last 15 or so years. "COMMANDO SOLO" is the mission (COMMANDO = ANG mission) of the six EC-130E(RR) 'RIVET RIDER' WWCTV (World-Wide Color-TV) aircraft. Other, similar ELINT/PSYOPS missions are code named "CORONET SOLO" and "VOLANT SOLO", also performed by EC-130(RR) and the even more secretive EC-130E(CL) 'COMFY LEVI' aircraft, which are also operated by the 193rd SOG. "SENIOR HUNTER" and "SENIOR SCOUT" modified C-130Es and C-130Hs fly similar SIGINT and transport missions for the ACC (SENIOR = ACC, SAC/TAC before that). WAPJ Vol. 23 has also some information on those aircraft and their missions. Besides being able to receive, transmit, relay, as well as jam any form of radio and video communications signals, one of the highly classified features of some of those PSYOPS aircraft is the ability to capture, modify and re- transmit any kind of (voice) communication. According to AW&ST, this enables the operator to receive and store a commando/message from (e.g.) an Iraqi GAC to an Iraqi fighter, modify the meaning of the message at will, and then re-broadcast the modified message to the intended receiver in the same voice and inflection, as the original sender, while jamming at the same time the original message. All of these technologies fall under the fabulous new Information Warfare category, I suppose. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:29:21 +0100 (BST) From: stevenb@xpedite.com (Steven Barber) Subject: Re: MiGs in the US On the subject of MiGs in non-Eastern bloc hands: I particularly like the fact that after the re-unification of Germany, the Luftwaffe tried *not* to accept the new MiGs the East Germans had ordered and the Soviets *insisted* that they take them (because they needed the hard currency). It's a funny old world. - -- Steven Barber Tel: +44 (0)1904 690000 Database Administrator Fax: +44 (0)1904 345678 Xpedite Systems Ltd Clifton Moor Business Village York, England - ----- And this posting has nothing to do with my employer... ------- ~ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 08:13:55 +0127 From: dosgood@proxima.gsfc.nasa.gov (Dean Osgood) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #50 >* ER-2 = not a real military designation; "ER" standing for "Earth > Resource" aircraft; 2 airframes built for NASA ARC, and 1 TR-1A > modified after a ground collision and on loan to NASA ARC; all > ER-2s will be re-engined with F118-GE-101 engines, but probably > will not be re-designated; This came in yesterday - ------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 13:39:47 -0400 (EDT) From: NASANews@hq.nasa.gov Subject: NASA Earth Science Research Aircraft Soars to New Heights Sender: owner-press-release@lists.hq.nasa.gov To: undisclosed-recipients:; Douglas Isbell Headquarters, Washington, DC May 13, 1997 (Phone: 202/358-1547) David Morse Ames Research Center, Mountain View, CA (Phone: 415/604-4724) RELEASE: 97-94 NASA EARTH SCIENCE RESEARCH AIRCRAFT SOARS TO NEW HEIGHTS A NASA ER-2 aircraft, complete with a full array of science instrument packages, recently conducted its first operational mission at an altitude of 70,000 feet, a key region for atmospheric research. The vehicle currently is on deployment to Alaska for missions over the North Pole in support of a project known as POLARIS, which stands for Photochemistry of Ozone Loss in the Arctic Region In Summer. NASA has two such vehicles in its ER-2 fleet based at the Agency's Ames Research Center, Mountain View, CA. The ER-2 is a civilian version of the U-2 aerial reconnaissance plane. A program to modernize the vehicles by making them lighter, more fuel efficient and more productive was completed recently. Over the next year, these improvements will increase significantly ithe size of science payloads and enhance the altitude performance of the ER-2s in support of NASA's Mission to Planet Earth enterprise. Following a recent flight, Jim Barrilleaux, an ER-2 pilot and acting chief of Ames' High Altitude Missions branch, expressed his surprise at the magnitude of difference in feel and performance of the vehicle. "It flies like a completely new aircraft," he said. "It feels really tight." Earth scientists also are excited about the enhanced capability. "It is really critical that we have access to consistent measurements at this key altitude, which is an intermediate region between aerosol particle-driven processes measured by standard aircraft-based sensors and gas-phase processes monitored by orbiting satellites," said Dr. Michael Kurylo, manager of the Upper Atmosphere Research Program at NASA Headquarters, Washington, DC. The first deployment of an upgraded ER-2 currently is being conducted over the North Pole through May 15. The present POLARIS payload utilizes two large superpods attached to the wings. This more than doubles the available volume for science instruments, while still permitting operation at enhanced altitudes of 70,000 feet and above, according to flight engineers. The POLARIS mission is seeking to understand the fundamental chemistry that dominates the naturally occuring seasonal reduction of ozone over the pole in the course of the Arctic summer. Many of the chemical reactions in which project scientists are interested in occur at altitudes in the 75,000-foot range. Now, even a fully loaded ER-2 can operate approximately 2,500 feet higher than previously possible due to lower fuel requirements and lighter aircraft weight. This increased altitude capability permits extension of in-place measurements for validating and upgrading existing models of the upper atmosphere. Additional information about POLARIS can be obtained at the website: http://cloud1.arc.nasa.gov/polaris NASA's Mission to Planet Earth program is a long-term, internationally coordinated research effort to study the Earth as a global environmental system. - ------------------------------------------------ Dean Osgood dosgood@proxima.gsfc.nasa.gov OR dlonsi@www710.gsfc.nasa.gov God: "Sum id quod sum." Descartes: "Cogito ergo sum." Popeye: "Sum id quod sum et id totum est quod sum." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:49:29 +1200 (NZST) From: Kerry Ferrand Subject: MMSA Hi, Does anyone have any details about a Skunk Works concept called MMSA (Multi Mission Support Aircraft) being offered (I assume) in the early 90s? The only reference to it I've ever come across is in a 1994 coffee table type book on 'futuristic' aircraft. It was a B-2 sized VTOL flying wing that was supposed to be capable of taking on assorted roles (transport, EW etc). Lift fans were mounted in the wings and it had 'nostril' intakes on the leading edge (the Lockheed CGI artist's impression shows it in an odd 50s-style bare metal scheme). Just wondering if the basic platform may have been based on something "black" like ATB design or the big bad UAV they are said to have flown. Of course there's the SENIOR CITIZEN angle.. Any thoughts or info? K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:10:33 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lednicer Subject: MiGs in US In the Squadron/Signal book "Red Ladies in Waiting", detailed information is given on the former East German MiG-23s and Su-22s delivered to the US after reunification. We also have pitcures of the former Egyptian Su-20s were supplied to the FRG in the mid 1980s. Hence, it can be assumed that some made it to the US too. Evidence is very strong that the Iraqi MiG-21F that defected to Israel in 1963 was eventually shipped to the US. There is a MiG-21F in the Israel Air Force museum that is claimed to be the same airframe. I have exmained it, but find no evidence that it is or isn't. Rumors also have it that the Israelis captured at least four Algerian MiG-21s in 1967 and possilbly some Egyptian Su-7s. The Israelis also have Syrian MiG-17s and a MiG-23 that defected in the 1960s and 1980s, respectively. The IAI MiG-21 upgrade demonstrator is based on a former Ethiopian MiG-21MF that they got their hands on one way or another. Possible sources for other MiGs in the US: - - Former Indonesian aircraft. When Sukarno was overthrown by Suharto in 1964, Indonesia moved quickly from the "non-aligned" to US camp. They had MiG-17s, -91s and -21s. Most ended up being scrapped, but some could have ended up in the US. - - Former Morrocan aircraft. The operated MiG-17s for a time. We do know they gave a MiG-17 to the Fighter Air Museum in Mesa, AZ in the 1970s. - - Former Egyptian aircraft. They became friends of the US in the late 1970s and owned MiGs and Sukhois of all types. - - Romanian aircraft. We know that the Communist dictator sold the US Soviet radios, radar and armored vehicles, why not aircraft? - - Cambodian aircraft. The Sihanouk government bought MiG-17s, so when the very pro-US Lon Nol took power in 1970s, some could have ended up in the US. We do know that some were in South Vietnam for a time in the early 1970s. I have a picture of one parked next to a F-4C. - - Various Polish, Cuban and North Korean defectors' aircraft. - - PR of China aircraft. They have gotten progressively more friendly to the US since 1972. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:36:22 -0500 (CDT) From: drbob@creighton.edu Subject: U-2s in UK Today I received my March issue of British Aviation Review, which has on pages 289-300 an excellent article entitled "The U-2 in the United Kingdom." Although I have not yet read the piece, it has nice photos (many from Chris Pocock's collection) and lots of serial numbers, dates, and details. I don't know how to get copies of the article other than copying the pages and sending them via snail mail, or perhaps BAR Chairman Mike Crutch might look into placing the article on the web or sending it out via e-mail, copyrights notwithstanding. His e-mail address is michael.crutch@ukonline.co.uk Try not to deluge him! He's posted to the skunkworks before. The article is worth a look. Robert "DrBob" Hopkins ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 15:11:28 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Contrail sighting Was sitting in a meeting at 2:15pm CDT, and as one is wont to do during these things, I was staring out a window on the north side of the room. At this point a very thin contrail just seemed to appear, west to east, and crossed the window view in about 3 seconds. I felt like my jaw dropped. This was so quick I wanted to jump up and run to the window, but prudence, and the desire not to seem like a nut, kept me setting there. I am always watching contrails and trying to identify the aircraft making them, and this beats anything I've ever seen. I didn't see an aircraft preceeding the trail, but it was so quick that I probably missed it. The distance covered by the contrail would be 2 1/2 hands wide, at arms length, and about 40 degrees above horizon. About half an hour later I watched an airliner cover the same distance and a few degrees lower in about 20 seconds. Would this put the speed above mach 3? Question: (Maybe Mary could answer this) Was a Blackbird doing a coast-to-coast today? Comments or info would be appreciated. Wayne - -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/`wings ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 19:04:11 -0700 From: "A.J. Craddock" Subject: Re: Contrail sighting ARV? Tony Craddock ********* At 03:11 PM 5/14/97 -0500, Wayne Busse wrote: >Was sitting in a meeting at 2:15pm CDT, and as one is wont to do >during these things, I was staring out a window on the north >side of the room. > >At this point a very thin contrail just seemed to appear, >west to east, and crossed the window view in about 3 seconds. > >I felt like my jaw dropped. This was so quick I wanted to jump up >and run to the window, but prudence, and the desire not to seem >like a nut, kept me setting there. > >I am always watching contrails and trying to identify the aircraft >making them, and this beats anything I've ever seen. >I didn't see an aircraft preceeding the trail, but it was so quick >that I probably missed it. > >The distance covered by the contrail would be 2 1/2 hands wide, at >arms length, and about 40 degrees above horizon. > >About half an hour later I watched an airliner cover the same distance >and a few degrees lower in about 20 seconds. > >Would this put the speed above mach 3? > >Question: (Maybe Mary could answer this) >Was a Blackbird doing a coast-to-coast today? > >Comments or info would be appreciated. > >Wayne > > >-- >Wayne Busse >wings@sky.net >http://www.sky.net/`wings > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:21:55 +1200 (NZST) From: Kerry Ferrand Subject: Military Hypersonics report on WWW I just happened to stumble across the 1989 National Research Council report "Hypersonic Technology for Military Application"..all 118 odd pages scanned in full (sans illustrations it seems) starting at: http://www.nap.edu/readingroom/records/0309042291.html probably old news for some.. Kerry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 07:13:52 -0700 From: "Anderson, Richard W" Subject: YF-22 My apologies. I've now had time to look at some of my photos from Nellis and the YF-22 was painted with the serial 86-022 and it also had the Nellis 'WA' tail code. Rick begin 600 winmail.dat M>)\^(C<.`0:0"``$```````!``$``0>0!@`(````Y`0```````#H``$(@`<` M&````$E032Y-:6-R;W-O9G0@36%I;"Y.;W1E`#$(`06``P`.````S0<%`!`` M!P`-`#0`!0`V`0$@@`,`#@```,T'!0`0``<`#0`T``4`-@$!"8`!`"$````P M-3%"04(R045!0T1$,#$Q.$(Q,3`P03!#.3!&-S,Q10`P!P$$@`$`!@```%E& M+3(R`#`!`0V`!``"`````0`!``$#D`8`F`0``"`````#`"8``0````(!"1`! M````#P$```L!``"(`0``3%I&=4;`NE<#``H`,?<=@A\P&0!L&Z`:5!W1'17P)U=!)QJ0"W`#(`6@K0YP+@J%"H52#>!K M(SP%%+$`)7``'@!P``$````&````648M,C(````"`7$``0```!8````!O&(# M0O;RE&92S;D1T+<)`*`D??(C``!``#D`8`OS80-BO`$#`/$_"00``!X`,4`! M````"P```%)704Y$15)33TX```,`&D``````'@`P0`$````+````4E=!3D1% M4E-/3@```P`90``````#`/T_Y`0```,`-@```````@%'``$````O````8SU5 M4SMA/2`[<#U,34-/.VP]0D]83$E'2%0M.3&QI M9VAT+FQM;7,N;&UC;RYC;VT^``L`*0``````"P`C```````#``80TV>3E0,` M!Q"#`````P`0$``````#`!$0`````!X`"!`!````90```$U905!/3$]'2453 M259%3D]72$%$5$E-151/3$]/2T%44T]-14]&35E02$]43U-&4D]-3D5,3$E3 M04Y$5$A%648M,C)705-004E.5$5$5TE42%1(15-%4DE!3#@V+3`R,D%.1$D` M`````@%_``$```!`````/$0Q0C8Y,C&QI9VAT+FQM;7,N;&UC;RYC;VT^`+,( ` end ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 09:33:45 -0700 From: patrick@e-z.net Subject: Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th A.J. Craddock wrote: > > CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer will be appearing on the Radio Show "Edge of > Reality", Saturday night (17th) 8-11pm EST to discuss CSETI's April > 9th Congressional briefings in Washington, DC regarding the UFO/ETI > coverup. This is ufology in its purest form. Ripe for debunking. But certainly not in this forum. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:25:08 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: off-topic Has anyone heard any new "leaks" or developments about the Senior Citizen or Senior Scout C-130 programs? Tom Robison ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 11:59:45 -0700 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th patrick wrote: >This is ufology in its purest form. Ripe for debunking. But certainly >not in this forum. Dr. Steven Greer hardly represents ufo research in its purest form! Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 17:48:42 -0700 From: patrick@e-z.net Subject: Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th I would like to post a public apology to Tony Craddock, a member of this list. He sent me a personal email regarding Dr. Greer's radio show. In my haste to respond to Tony, I assumed it was an email sent to the list. Therefore I apologize to Tony and all other members for bringing this matter to everyones attention. He and I have differing points of view on this subject but it was I who errored in posting my comments. Sorry Tony! patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 13:31:51 +1200 (NZST) From: Kerry Ferrand Subject: Rutan Interview There's a quite interesting interview with Burt Rutan online starting at http://www.airspacemag.com/TWD/Rutan.html in which he briefly touches on a few things he's working on including a U-2-ish high flyer for a private company and his ideas for future projects like an all composite fighter and your very baby B-2 homebuilt kit etc. (one warning - the pages start loading QTVR files without asking) K ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 19:22:27 -0700 From: Mental Jewelry Subject: C130 programs Tom Robison wrote: > > Has anyone heard any new "leaks" or developments about the Senior Citizen > or Senior Scout C-130 programs? Other than that Senior Scout is moving to Palmdale (or has moved already, can't remember which one), no. c. - -- clew@cris.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2925 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 15:44:11 -0700 (PDT) From: dadams@netcom.com Subject: Re: CSETI's Dr. Steven Greer on Radio, Saturday 17th Larry sez: > patrick wrote: > >This is ufology in its purest form. Ripe for debunking. But certainly > >not in this forum. > > Dr. Steven Greer hardly represents ufo research in its purest form! Agreed. He represents ufo research in it's wackiest and most ridiculous form! Greer represents new-age ufo cultism in its purest form. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 00:09:51 -0700 From: patrick@e-z.net Subject: Please end this thread Please end the thread discussing Dr. Greer. For one very good reason. I was sent the notification as a private e-mail. I failed to recognize this and posted this e-mail without permission of the author along with my comments. I have previously apologized to the author, A.J.Craddock for my error. As it was never his intention to post the e-mail to the list, I don't feel it is fair to Tony that we comment on it. Once again I apologize to everyone and thank you in advance for your cooperation. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 17:23:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: MiGs in the US Felipe Salles asked about US-operated MiGs, and Kerry Ferrand , Hank Lapa and David Lednicer already listed several sources for photos of FSU (Former Soviet Union)-type aircraft in the US inventory, and possible ways of how and where they might have been obtained. I would like to add some additional info from various sources, including DTESA-info from "Aggressor Aircraft", by Chuck Stewart, and OTSA-info from WAPJ (World Air Power Journal) Vol.26, Fall 1996, by Tom Ring, as well as various other sources. The USAF and its predecessors has a long history of using and evaluating captured aircraft, as have the air forces of many other countries. Especially during and after World War II, the USAAF evaluated many German, Japanese and other aircraft. Later, during the Korea War, Soviet aircraft were added to that list by the USAF. I tried to compile a list of all known aircraft, which were actually used by the US military, but never received either US military serials nor US civil registrations. Most of those aircraft were captured from adversaries, some were used by defectors, while many others were obtained differently. Some "black" aircraft, which were actually built for the US military, like the HAVE BLUE and TACIT BLUE test vehicles, flew without serials, while others were bought openly from former enemies or were loaned by allies, and received either 'temporary' serials (like the USN and USMC F-21A Lion/Kfir C.1) or were flow just with 'buzz numbers', like many MiGs. The photo of the MiG-21F-13 with US markings and the photo of the MiG-21 in front of a hangar at Groom Lake and finally the MiG-21F-13 on loan from the USAFM, which is on display at the SAC Museum or the similar MiG-21F-13, on display at the ISTM, may well be only two different aircraft. Also, the Popular Science (March 1994) photo of an Su-22M-4 could be of one of the ex-German aircraft, even though the color scheme is different. The MiG-23 with F-106-type nose, photographed at Tyndall AFB, FL, during "William Tell '94" (WAPJ Vol.21, Summer 1995), may also have been an ex-German aircraft (also repainted). All OTSA tail numbers could possibly be real, but shortened, USAF or US Army FY-serials. As usual, I would be happy for any additional info, corrections and suggestions. - -- Andreas ***************************************************************************= **** Aircraft used for evaluation in trials and secret "black" aircraft. No official serial (or even designation) used (or known). ***************************************************************************= **** Number | Other Markings : Type - c/n Remarks =============================================================================== 0002 | : Fiat G.91T/1 - 0002 ex LW 'BD+102', loan 0065 | : Fiat G.91R/3 - 0065 ex LW 'EC+105', loan 0393 | : CASA C.212 Srs 300 - 0393 used by USCG, CGAS =============================================================================== | : 'HAVE BLUE' / XST - 1001 (Article 1001) | : 'HAVE BLUE' / XST - 1002 (Article 1002) | : 'TACIT BLUE' - ...... no serial | : 'TACIT BLUE' - ...... not completed =============================================================================== ******************************************************************************* Captured, defected, or recovered aircraft, tested and evaluated by the US military during W.W.II and later. Some defected aircraft were later returned. A good source for that topic should be the book "War Prices" by Butler, which I have seen advertised, but I don't have the $50 to spare right now. * TAIU-SWPA (Technical Air Intelligence Unit - Southwest Pacific Area). "S" number, used on captured (mostly Japanese) aircraft (W.W.II). * "EB" (Evaluation Branch) number, used on some captured aircraft (W.W.II). * "FE" (Foreign Evaluation / Equipment), used on captured aircraft (W.W.II). The first USAF Me 262 (received 03/30/1945) was marked '711', (maybe W/nr '500711'), another was marked '10'. One of the Ar 234B-2 was marked '22 07' and 'E2+', while another one (or maybe the same) was later marked '202'. Two had a name written on the nose at that time, before the 'FE' serials were applied. (Some captured aircraft never received a number). * "T2" (Office of Intelligence (T2) of the Air Technical Service Command). Replaced FE- numbers on captured aircraft from September 1945. The T2 operation at Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH, somehow evolved into the Foreign Technology Division of the AFSC (Air Force Systems Command). (Most recovered aircraft never received a number). * "TC" Buzz Number (originally used for the T-11 Kansan, and later for the TF-102A Delta Dagger). Used on one MiG-15 which defected from North Korea, and which was testflown in full US markings in Korea and later at Wright- Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH. It is now displayed in its original North Korean markings at the USAFM. * "FU" Buzz Number (originally used for the F-86 Sabre). Used on one Yak-23, which was secretly tested at Wright-Patterson AFB, during the mid-1950s, and which was then apparently shipped back, where ever it came from. The c/n (construction number) of German aircraft is usually known as W/nr (Werk Nummer -- for some strange reason often misspelled as "Werke Nummer"). ******************************************************************************* Number | Other Markings : Type - c/n Remarks =============================================================================== S12 | : Mitsubishi J2M3 - 3008 S16 | : Yokosuka D4Y3 - ...... S19 | : Nakajima B6N1 - ...... S22 | : Kawasaki Ki-45-KAI - ...... =============================================================================== EB-102 | : Bf 109G-6 - ...... (Me 109G-6) =============================================================================== FE-7 | : Ho III - ...... NASM (?) FE-102 | : Me 410A-1 - 420430 (?) (Cosford, UK ?) FE-103 | : Hs 129B - ...... FE-104 | : Fw 190G-3 - ...... FE-105 | : Ju 88D-1 - ...... FE-106 | : Ju 88A-4 - ...... FE-107 | : Me 262A-1a - ...... FE-108 | : Me 262(A ?) - ...... FE-109 | : Me 262(A ?) - ...... FE-110 | : Me 262A-1a - ...... FE-111 | : Me 262A-1a - ...... FE-112 | : Ta 152H-0 - ...... FE-113 | : Fw 190 - ...... FE-114 | : Fw 190 - ...... FE-115 | : Fw 190 - ...... FE-116 | : Fw 190F-8 - ...... FE-117 | : Fw 190F-8/R1 - ...... FE-118 | : Fw 190D-9 - ...... FE-119 | : Fw 190 - ...... FE-120 | : Fw 190D-9 - ...... FE-121 | : Fw 190D-9 - ...... FE-122 | : Bf 109G-10/U4 - 611943 (Me 109G-10), PFM FE-123 | : Bf 109K-4 - ...... (Me 109K-4) FE-124 | : Bf 109K-4 - ...... (Me 109K-4) FE-125 | : Fw 190G-3 - ...... FE-201 | : Mitsubishi A6M5 - ...... FE-300 | : Macchi MC.202 - ...... FE-326 | : Kyushu J7W1 - ...... FE-400 | : Spitfire VII - ...... paper serial ? FE-489 | '1' : He 162A-2 - 120077 to 'T-2-489', PFM FE-490 | : Go 229 / Ho IX V3 - ...... to 'T2-490', NASM FE-491 | : Hawker Typhoon IB - ...... paper serial ? FE-494 | : He 162A-2 - 120017 to 'T2-494' FE-495 | '54' : Me 163B-1 - 191301 NASM FE-496 | : Bf 109G-6 - 160163 (Me 109G-6), NASM FE-498 | : Macchi MC.202 - ...... FE-499 | : Me 410A-3 - 10018 NASM FE-500 | : Me 163B-1a - 191614 (?) (Cosford, UK ?) FE-501 | : Me 163B-1a - ...... FE-502 | : Me 163B-1a - ...... FE-503 | : Me 163B-1a - ...... FE-504 | '23' : He 162A-2 - 120230 to 'T2',NASM ('120222') FE-505 | : BV 155 V3 - ...... FE-610 | : Me 262B-1a/U1 - 110639 NAS Willow Grove FE-611 | : Ju 88A - ...... FE-612 | : He 219A-7 - ...... FE-613 | : He 219A - ...... FE-614 | : He 219A - ...... FE-1010 | : Ar 234B-2 - 130312 to 'T2',NASM ('140312') FE-1011 | : Ar 234B-2 - ...... FE-1012 | : Do 335A-02 - ...... FE-1597 | : Ju 188A - ...... FE-1598 | : Ju 88D-1/Trop - ...... FE-1599 | : Ju 88A-4 - ...... FE-1600 | : He 111H-16 - ...... FE-1948 | : Ar 234 - ...... FE-2000 | : Do 17Z - ...... FE-2100 | : He 177A-7 - ...... FE-2600 | : 'Grunau sailplane' - ...... (Grunau Baby, NASM ?) FE-2700 | : Go 242B-4 - ...... FE-3400 | : Ju 290A-7 - ...... FE-4010 | : Ju 388K-1 - ...... FE-4012 | : Me 262A-1a/U3 - ...... to 'T2', PFM ('111617') FE-4600 | : Hs 129B-2 - ...... FE-4610 | : Bf 108B-1 - ...... (Me 108B-1) FE-4611 | : B=81 181 - ...... FE-4612 | : B=81 181 - ...... FE-4613 | : Fl 282 V23 - ...... FE-4614 | : Fl 282 V15 - ...... FE-4615 | : Wn 342 V4 - ...... FE-4617 | : FA 330 - ...... to 'T2-4617' FE-4618 | : FA 330A-1 - ...... =============================================================================== The following aircraft were never flown or never received a number. | : Ba 349 / BP 20 - ...... (4+ aircraft) | : BV 222C-011 - ...... | : Fi 103 / FZG-76 - ...... (2+, also unmanned) | : Lippisch DM-1 - ...... wind tunnel tests | : Me P.1011 V1 - ...... not completed =============================================================================== T2-489 | 'T-2-489', '1' : He 162A-2 - 120077 ex 'FE-489', PFM T2-490 | : Go 229 / Ho IX V3 - ...... ex 'FE-490', NASM T2-494 | : He 162A-2 - 120017 ex 'FE-494' T2-504 | '23' : He 162A-2 - 120230 ex 'FE',NASM ('120222') T2-1010 | : Ar 234B-2 - 130312 ex 'FE',NASM ('130312') T2-3000 | : Il-10 - ...... ex North Korea T2-3001 | : Il-10 - ...... ex North Korea (?) T2-3002 | : Yak-9P - ...... ex North Korea (?) T2-4012 | 'T-2-4012' : Me 262A-1a/U3 - ...... ex 'FE', PFM ('111617') T2-4617 | 'T2 4617' : FA 330 - ...... ex 'FE-4617' =============================================================================== TC-616 | 'TC-7616' : MiG-15bis 'Fagot-B'- 2015337 ex. N.Korea '2057' =============================================================================== FU-599 | '0599' : Yak-23 - ...... USAF markings =============================================================================== The following aircraft also defected or were recovered after crashing. =============================================================================== | : Mi-4 'Hare' - ...... def. from Cuba | '8170' : MiG-15 'Fagot-A' - 0615316 def. to Seoul | : MiG-15bis 'Fagot-B'- ...... def. 1953, to Bornholm | : MiG-15bis 'Fagot-B'- 1901327 def. 1956 | '1765' : MiG-15bis 'Fagot-B'- ...... def. 03/03/62 to Taiwan | : MiG-15bis 'Fagot-B'- 120147 cr. 07/21/1951, Korea | '1041' : MiG-17 'Fresco-A' - ...... def. from Syria | '232' : MiG-17 'Fresco-A' - ...... def. Cuba 10/05/69 | '1024' : MiG-17F 'Fresco-C' - ...... def. from Cambodia | '3878' : MiG-19 'Farmer-A' - ...... cap./def. from Syria | '534' to '007' : MiG-21F-13 Fishbed - ...... def. Iraq to Israel | : MiG-23 'Flogger' - ...... def. Cuba to Key West | : MiG-25P 'Foxbat-A' - ...... def. to Japan 09/06/76 =============================================================================== ******************************************************************************* Soviet and Warsaw-Pact type aircraft, used for evaluation and training by various US military organizations and units. Pentagon (Joint Operation): * OT&E (Operational Test & Evaluation) office; - DTESA (Defense Test and Evaluation Support Agency), Kirtland AFB, Albuquerque, NM. Most of the DTESA aircraft were acquired from Poland and China, via CCCP (Combat Core Certification Professionals) and Al Reddick's CIA (Classics In Aviation), both based at Stead Airport, Reno, NV. US Army: * OPTEC (Operational Test and Evaluation Command); - OTSA (OPTEC Threat Support Activity), Fort Bliss, El Paso, TX. USAF: * ACC (Air Combat Command), (was TAC = Tactical Air Command (and also SAC = Strategic Air Command)); - WTC (USAF Weapons and Tactics Center) (was TAWC = USAF Tactical Air Warfare Center); - 4477th TES (Test and Evaluation Squadron), 'Red Eagles', Nellis AFB, Las Vegas, NV, but actually based (at an Detatchmnet) at the TTR (Tonopah Test Range), near Tonopah, NV, (but disbanded now ?) - 547th Intelligence Squadron, which has a Threat Museum (ISTM), where several of the former 4477th TES and maybe some 6513th TS aircraft are on (usually not public) display. * AFMC (Air Force Materiel Command) (was AFSC = Air Force Systems Command (and also AFLC = Air Force Logistics Command)); - AFFTC (Air Force Flight Test Center); - 412th TW (Test Wing) (was 6510th TW); - 412th OG (Operations Group) (or maybe 412th TG (Test Group) ?); - 413th TS (Test Squadron), 'Red Hats', (was 6513th TS), Edwards AFB, CA, North Base, but also operating out of 'Area 51', Groom Lake. - former Foreign Technology Division, see NAIC. * AIA (Air Intelligence Agency) (was AFIC = Air Force Intelligence Command and also AISA = Air Force Intelligence Support Agency); - NAIC (National Air Intelligence Center), Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, OH; (probably a continuation of the Foreign Technology Division). The following projects have also been associated with FSU aircraft in the US: 'HAVE DOUGHNUT' (or 'HAVE DONUT'), 'HAVE DRILL', and 'HAVE RIVET'. The MiGs are in many cases Polish Lim-2/SBLim-2/Lim-3/Lim-5/Lim-5P or Chinese F-4/FT-5/F-6 aircraft. Some of the former East German NVA (Nationale Volksarmee = National Peoples Army), LSK/LV (Luftstreitkraefte/Luftverteidigung = Air Forces/Air Defense) aircraft, which were given to the USA, may have been returned. Some of those ex-NVA aircraft came from the German LW (Luftwaffe = Air Force), some from the MF (Marineflieger = Naval Aviation), and some from the HF (Heeresflieger = Army Aviation). Some transfers are unconfirmed, though. Not listed are private/civilian aircraft and direct purchases for Museums. ******************************************************************************* Number | Other Markings : Type - c/n Remarks =============================================================================== | : An-2 'Colt' - ...... DTESA | : Il-14 'Crate' - ...... DTESA 0541 | : PZL Mi-2 'Hoplite' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-15 'Fagot' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-15 'Fagot' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-15 'Fagot' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-15 'Fagot' - ...... DTESA 038 | : MiG-15UTI 'Midget' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-17 'Fresco' - ...... DTESA 303 | : MiG-17F 'Fresco-C' - ...... DTESA 905 | : MiG-17F 'Fresco-C' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-17F/PF Fresco - ...... DTESA | : MiG-17F/PF Fresco - ...... DTESA 634 | : MiG-17PF 'Fresco D'- ...... DTESA | : MiG-19 'Farmer' - ...... DTESA | : MiG-21 'Fishbed' - ...... DTESA, ex Polish AF | : MiG-21 'Fishbed' - ...... DTESA, ex Polish AF 2313 | : MiG-21F 'Fishbed' - ...... DTESA =============================================================================== 00074 | 'Red Baron' : An-2 'Colt' - ...... OTSA 16555 | : An-2 'Colt' - ...... OTSA 00218 |'Double Trouble': Ka-28 'Helix' - ...... OTSA, (Ka-32 'Helix-C') 00221 | 'Lite Action' : Mi-2 'Hoplite' - ...... OTSA 00528 | 'Dave's Deluxe': Mi-8T 'Hip-C' - ...... OTSA 12053 | : Mi-8T 'Hip-C' - ...... OTSA 13790 | 'Orca' : Mi-14PL 'Haze-A' - ...... OTSA, (ex MF ?) 01192 | : Mi-17 'Hip-H' - 226M174 OTSA, Iraqi markings 22270 | 'Patience' : Mi-24P 'Hind-F' - ...... OTSA, (ex HF ?) 32472 | 'Warlord' : Mi-25 'Hind-D' - ...... OTSA, Iraqi markings 80616 | 'Devil' : Mi-25 'Hind-D' - ...... OTSA =============================================================================== | : Mi-24 'Hind' - ...... disp. at ISTM | '84' : MiG-21F-13 Fishbed - ...... disp. at ISTM | '......' (?) : MiG-21F-13 Fishbed - ...... USAF markings | '60' / '01' : MiG-21F-13 Fishbed - ...... disp. at SAC Museum | : MiG-21UM 'Mongol-B'- ...... disp. at NAIC | : MiG-23 'Flogger' - ...... cr. 04/1984, NV (?) | : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... disp. at ISTM (ex LW) | '84' : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... disp. at Tyndall AFB | : Su-7 'Fitter' - ...... disp. at ISTM =============================================================================== | '20 15' (LW) : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... ex LW, ex NVA '338' | '20 16' (LW) : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... ex LW, ex NVA '339' | '20 28' (LW) : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... ex LW, ex NVA '551' | '20 32' (LW) : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - 0390324033 ex LW, ex NVA '567' | '20 36' (LW) : MiG-23ML Flogger-G - ...... ex LW, ex NVA '606' | '29+06' (LW) : MiG-29 'Fulcrum-A' - 2960525114 ex LW, ex NVA '661' | '25+25' (LW) : Su-22M-4 'Fitter-K'- 30914 ex LW, ex NVA '380' | '25+33' (LW) : Su-22M-4 'Fitter-K'- 31203 ex LW, ex NVA '724' =============================================================================== The following transfers are unconfirmed. '29+07' was probably '29+06'. =============================================================================== | '93+83' (HF) : Mi-8TB 'Hip-C' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '93+86' (HF) : Mi-8TB 'Hip-C' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '93+88' (HF) : Mi-8TB 'Hip-C' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '93+89' (HF) : Mi-8TB 'Hip-C' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '96+30' (HF) : Mi-24D 'Hind-D' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '96+51' (HF) : Mi-24P 'Hind-F' - ...... ex HF, ex NVA '...' | '29+07' (LW) : MiG-29 'Fulcrum-A' - 2960525115 ex LW, ex NVA '668' | '29+23' (LW) : MiG-29UB Fulcrum-B - 50903006526 ex LW, ex NVA '179' =============================================================================== The following 21 IAI Kfir C.1 were leased by the USN (12 for VF-43, 04/1985 - 03/1988) and the USMC (13 for VMFT-401, 07/1987 - 09/28/1989) and were designated F-21A Kfir (or 'Lion') in US military service. Their non-standard serials were created by prefixing the IAF three-digit number (c/n ?) with '999', to make them BuAerNo-like, even though the 12 USN F-21As received standard serials (BuNo 163298 - 163309), which were never applied on those aircraft. All USN aircraft (including '03', '05', '12', '14', '28' and '29') and 6 USMC planes (including '02', '04', '09', and '12') were camouflaged in a three-tone, blue-grey scheme, while the rest were painted either in a brown- dominated, three-tone scheme (like red '11' and red '13') or in a much lighter beige/green/brown comouflage scheme (like red '03' and red '05'). =============================================================================== 999703 | 'NAVY' '03' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '703', (163298) 999708 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '708' 999709 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '709', (163299) 999710 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '710', (163300) 999716 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '716' 999724 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '724' 999725 | 'MARINES' '11' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '725' 999726 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '726', (163301) 999727 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '727' 999728 | 'NAVY' '14' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '728', (163302) 999731 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '731' 999732 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '732', (163303) 999734 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '734' 999735 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '735', (163304) 999739 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '739', (163305) 999742 | 'NAVY' '12' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '742', (163306) 999747 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '747', (163307) 999749 | 'MARINES' '09' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '749' 999750 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '750' 999764 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '764' 999785 | 'MARINES' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '785' 999786 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '786', (163308) 999787 | 'MARINES' '13' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '787' 999791 | 'NAVY' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '791', (163309) 999794 | 'MARINES' '12' : IAI F-21A - ...... IAF '794' =============================================================================== --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 =20 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ --- --- ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #51 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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