From: owner-skunk-works-digest@ (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V6 #52 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@ Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Thursday, May 22 1997 Volume 06 : Number 052 In this issue: Defections Re: MiGs in the US ER-2 Defections X-36 Re: ER-2 Re: MiGs in the US and Defections Re: ER-2 Nellis YF-22A Re: Nellis YF-22A See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:30:33 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lednicer Subject: Defections Some time ago, a Canadian fellow (whose name escapes me) and I put together a list of know defections. Since Andreas has gotten involved, I thought I would throw this list up for discussion. I apologize for the length of the lines. Captures/Defections of Sino/Soviet Aircraft Date Aircraft From Notes Jun-51 Mig-15 N. Korea Recovered from sea by Royal Navy. To USA. 17-May-49 La-11 Landed in Sweden from navigational Error. 21-Sep-53 MiG-15bis N. Korea Flown to Kimpo S. Korea by Lt. Ro Kun Suk. Test flown by USAF as T2-3000. Now in USAF museum. Il-10 N. Korea Captured by USA. Yak-9D N. Korea Captured by USA. Test flown as T2-3002 by USAF. Mil-4 Cuba Defection to USA in 1960s. Now in US Army museum at Fort Rucker. Il-14 Captured in Aden by RAF after mistaken landing. Yak-18 N. Korea Captured by USA. Now in NASM. 05-Mar-53 MiG-15bis Poland Defection to Borholm Island Denmark. Aircraft returned March 22nd. Mar-64 Yak-11U Force landed in Cyprus during ferry flight to Egypt. Flown in UK as G-AYAK. An-2 Rumania Defection to Austria. An-2 Cuba Defection to USA. An-14 Guinea Captured by Portugese Guinea An-2 N. Korea Defection to S. Korea. Now on display. 12-Aug-68 Mig-17F Syria 2 aircraft landed at Betzet Israel in error. Yak-18A E. Germany Defection to Bornholm Island, Denmark 19-Jan-61 Yak-11 Egypt Defection to Israel. 1979 Su-20 Egypt Given to PR of China. 1979 MiG-23 Egypt Given to PR of China. MiG-23 Egypt Several given to USA. La-7UTI USSR Defection to Turkey 05-Oct-69 MiG-17 Cuba Defection to USA by Lt. Eduardo Jimenez. Aircraft returned. 1965 MiG-17 Syria To Israel. Flight tested by IDF/AF. 06-Sep-76 MiG-25 USSR Defection to Hakodate Japan by Lt. Victor Belenko. Aircraft returned. 05-Jun-67 MiG-21 Algeria 3 aircraft landed at El Arish after airfield was overrun by Israel. 16-Aug-66 MiG-21 Iraq Defection to Israel. Aircraft flown in USA. Now on display at IDF/AF museum. 1965 MiG-17 Syria 6 landed by mistake in Israel. To USA. 12-Jan-60 MiG-15 PR of China Exploded on force landing at Ilan, Taiwan. 15-Sep-61 An-2 PR of China Flown to S. Korea. 03-Mar-62 MiG-15bis PR of China Defection to Taoyuan AB Taiwan by Lt. Liu Cheng-Sze. Now on display at Pintung AB. 11-Nov-66 Il-28 PR of China Crashed at Taoyuan AB Taiwan. 07-Jul-77 F-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Defection to Taiwan. Su-7 Egypt Captured by Israel. 18-Jul-80 MiG-23 Libya Crashed in mountains near Castelsilano, Italy. 11-Feb-81 MiG-23 Libya Defection to Maleme AB, Crete Greece. Aircraft returned February 14. 01-Aug-68 MiG-17 Syria 9 aircraft to Iraq. 01-Aug-68 MiG-21 Syria 3 aircraft to Iraq. 1976 MiG-23 Syria To Iraq. 26-Apr-81 Mi-8 Afghanistan To Quetta Airport, Pakistan. 03-May-81 Let Z-37 Czechoslovakia To Austria. 1967 MiG-17 Egypt Captured in damaged condition by Israel at Bir Gif Gafa AB. 31-Oct-56 MiG-15 Egypt Captured in damaged condition by Israel after being shot down. Displayed at Hatzor AB. 1965 MiG-17 Syria 7 aircraft forced to land in Israel. 3 aircraft and 5 pilots returned. 01-Apr-82 An-2 Poland Defected to Austria. Jun-82 Yak-12 Poland Defected to Austria. 08-Jul-81 MiG-17 Mozambique Defected to South Africa. Aircraft returned in November. 19-Oct-82 An-2 Poland Defected to Sweden. Aircraft returned. 16-Oct-82 F-6 (MiG-19) PR of China To S. Korea. Pilot Wu June-Chien to Taiwan. 08-Feb-83 Mi-2 Poland Defected to Sweden. Aircraft returned. 25-Feb-83 MiG-19 N. Korea Defected to S. Korea. 07-Aug-83 F-7 PR of China Defected to S. Korea. 14-Nov-83 J-5 (MiG-17) PR of China Defected to Taiwan. 27-May-83 J-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Crash during attempt to defect. 1955 MiG-15bis USSR Forced landed in W. Germany from navigational error. 13-Jul-85 Mi-24 USSR 2 aircraft defected to Pakistan. Aircraft to USA. 24-Aug-85 Il-28 PR of China Crashed on landing in Taiwan. Mi-8 Syria Captured by Israel. 20-Feb-85 F-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Defected to S. Korea. 25-Jul-84 An-2 Poland Defected to Everod Airfield, Kristianstad Sweden. Aircraft returned. 23-Mar-83 An-2 Poland Defected to Everod Airfield, Kristianstad Sweden. Aircraft returned. Mar-86 J-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Defected to S. Korea. 23-Oct-86 MiG-21 Afghanistan Defected to Pakistan 04-Mar-87 Mi-2 Czechoslovakia Defected to W. Germany. 20-Oct-86 F-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Defected to S. Korea. Mar-87 Mi-25 Libya Captured by Chad at Quadi-Duom. To France, USA. 14-Aug-89 MiG-17F Hungary Crash landed during defection, near Udine, Italy 22-Sep-84 An-26 Afghanistan Defected to Miranshah, Pakistan. Aircraft put into Pakistani service. Oct-73 Mi-8 Egypt Captured by Israel in flying condition. May-89 MiG-29 USSR Defection to Turkey. Aircraft returned. 14-Dec-88 MiG-21 Angola Landed in Namibia. Flown to South Africa. 08-Dec-88 MiG-21MF Afghanistan Flown to Miram Shah AB, Pakistan. 26-Apr-89 Mi-25 Sudan Flown to Aswan Airport, Egypt. 11-Oct-89 MiG-23MLD Syria Defection to Meggidio, Israel. Aircraft flown by IDF/AF. 20-Nov-83 Su-7 Afghanistan Crashed on landing during defection to Dal Bandin AB, Pakistan. 25-Mar-84 MiG-17 Afghanistan Crashed on landing during defection to Mushcab AB, Pakistan. 16-Jul-84 Mi-25 Afghanistan Defection to Miran Shah Pakistan. Aircraft in Pakistani service. 03-Oct-87 Mi-4 Afghanistan 2 defections to Chihal Pakistan. Aircraft returned. 08-Aug-88 MiG-21 Afghanistan Defection to Parachinar Pakistan. 03-Jul-89 Mi-24 Afghanistan Defection to Kica AB Pakistan. Aircraft in Pakistani service. 1987 Mi-24 USSR Landed in Pakistan. 06-Jul-89 Su-22 Afghanistan Defection to Peshawar Pakistan. 29-Oct-89 MiG-21bis Afghanistan Defection to Peshawar Pakistan. 1989 F-6 (MiG-19) PR of China Defected to Fujan Province, Taiwan. Su-7 Afghanistan Defection to Pakistan. 20-Mar-91 MiG-23 Cuba Defection to USA. 26-May-91 L-39 Ethiopia To Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 26-May-91 An-12 Ethiopia 2 to Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 26-May-91 Mi-8 Ethiopia 7 to Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 26-May-91 MiG-23BN Ethiopia 3 to Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 26-May-91 Mi-24 Ethiopia 3 to Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 26-May-91 Mi-35 Ethiopia 3 to Dijibouti. Returned August 8. 07-Nov-91 Mi-14 Germany 2 Given to USA. To USN. 08-Jul-92 MiG-23 Libya Defection to Maleme AB, Crete Greece. Aircraft returned February 14. 15-Sep-61 Y-5 PR of China Defected to Taiwan. Now in museum. 1985 Su-20 Egypt Given to W. Germany. MiG-23 Germany 5 given to USA. Su-22 Germany 2 given to USA. MiG-29 Germany Supplied to USA. Feb-91 MiG-25 Iraq Captured by USA in heavily damaged condition. Feb-91 Su-25 Iraq 2 captured in damaged condition by USA. 1993 MiG-21 Ethiopa Known to be in Israel. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 23:13:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: MiGs in the US I am not sure, but, what about Ka-50?? In the book "The Osprey Encyclopedia of Russian Aircraft 1875-1995" by Bill Gunston say the following in pag. 144: "Order for small evaluation batch (of Ka-50) by US Special Force reported 93". Please, correct me if I am wronge. I read something like this also in AvLeek. May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 14:30:02 -0700 From: patrick@e-z.net Subject: ER-2 USAFnews wrote:> & > 970614. NASA research aircraft soars to new heights > > HOUSTON (AFNS) -- A NASA ER-2 aircraft, complete with a full array of > science instrument packages, recently conducted its first operational > mission at an altitude of 70,000 feet, a key region for atmospheric > research. > > The vehicle currently is on deployment to Alaska for missions over the > North Pole in support of a project known as POLARIS, short for > Photochemistry of Ozone Loss in the Arctic Region In Summer. NASA has > two such aircraft in its ER-2 fleet based at the Agency's Ames Research > Center, Mountain View, Calif. The ER-2 is a civilian version of the Air > Force's U-2 aerial reconnaissance plane. > > A program to modernize the aircraft by making them lighter, more fuel > efficient and more productive was completed recently. Over the next > year, these improvements will significantly increase the size of science > payloads and enhance the altitude performance of the ER-2s in support of > NASA's Mission to Planet Earth enterprise. > > Earth scientists also are excited about the enhanced capability. "It is > really critical that we have access to consistent measurements at this > key altitude, which is an intermediate region between aerosol > particle-driven processes measured by standard aircraft-based sensors > and gas-phase processes monitored by orbiting satellites," said Dr. > Michael Kurylo, manager of the Upper Atmosphere Research Program at NASA > Headquarters, Washington, DC. > > The POLARIS mission is seeking to understand the fundamental chemistry > that dominates the naturally occurring seasonal reduction of ozone over > the pole in the course of the Arctic summer. Many of the chemical > reactions in which project scientists are interested in occur at > altitudes in the 75,000-foot range. > > Now, even a fully loaded ER-2 can operate approximately 2,500 feet > higher than previously possible due to lower fuel requirements and > lighter aircraft weight. This increased altitude capability permits > extension of in-place measurements for validating and upgrading existing > models of the upper atmosphere. (Courtesy of NASA News Service) ====================================================================== patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 17:39:06 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lednicer Subject: Defections > An excellent posting, but now I'm curious, is there a similar list of > aircraft that the other side got from us, by various means? I'm sure > there were not many defections. The only aircraft I am aware of that defected are: - - A F-86 flown to PR of China by a R of China pilot - - A F-5E flown to PR of China by a R of China pilot They also had the opportunity to look at: - - Various F-5As, F-5Es, A-37s, C-123s, C-130s, UH-1s, CH-47s, etc. captured when R of Vietnam fell. It is established that one RVN F-5E ended up in Poland and one RVN F-5E and one A-37 in Czechoslovakia. - - Whatever might have been left behind when Cambodia fell. - - Iranian F-14s, F-4Ds, F-4Es, F-5Es, P-3Fs, etc. after the Shah fell. - - Libyan F-5As and Mirage IIIs and Vs. - - Ethiopian F-5As and F-5Es. - - Iraqi Hawker Hunters, Super Etendards and Mirage F1s. - - Yugoslavian F-84s and F-86s. - - A couple of Fiat G-91s left behind in Angola and Mozambique when the Portugese withdrew. - - Indianian Hunters, Gnats and Canberras. - - The two Vertol 44s and two Sikorsky S-58s sold to the USSR in 1958. - - Let's not forget the RR Nenes and Derwents sold to the USSR in 1946! - - The famous GE CF6 that dissapeared from Kabul when the USSR invaded Afghanistan in 1979. - - Aerospatiale Pumas and Alouttes from the Romanian assembly line. - - AIM-9 Sidewinders recovered by PR of China and stolen from FR of Germany. - - Wreckage from aircraft shot down over PR of Vietnam, PR of Korea, Egypt, Syria, Angola, Iraq, Lebanon (an A-6 and an A-7 in 1982), PR of China and the USSR itself. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 97 13:54:02 EDT From: JOHN SZALAY Subject: X-36 OK I know its not a product of LMSW, but since its SO slow around the list lately. heres the latest release on the X-36. - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- RELEASE: 97-106 REMOTELY-PILOTED TAILLESS AIRCRAFT COMPLETES FIRST FLIGHT A NASA/McDonnell Douglas remotely piloted, tailless aircraft successfully completed its first flight on May 17 at NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA. The lack of vertical tails greatly enhances the stealthy characteristics of the airplane, and holds promise for greater agility than is currently available in existing military fighter aircraft. Called the X-36, the subscale research aircraft lifted off from Rogers Dry Lake at 7:08 a.m., PDT. The aircraft flew for five minutes and reached an altitude of approximately 4,900 feet. An additional 24 test flights of the X-36 are scheduled at Dryden during the next six months. show what the fighter aircraft of the future will look like," said Rod Bailey, X-36 program manager. When we saw this airplane lift off, we saw the shape of airplanes to come." NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA, leads the X- 36 program, and has technical responsiblity for continued development of some of the critical technologies needed for future tailless, stealthy fighter aircraft. There are two 28-percent-scale X-36s, which are remotely piloted jets built by the McDonnell Douglas Corporation's Phantom Works division in St. Louis, MO, and are designed to fly without the traditional vertical and horizontal tails found on most aircraft. Each aircraft measures 18 feet long, 3 feet high, has a 10-foot wing span, and weighs 1,250 pounds. Each aircraft is powered by a Williams Research F112 turbofan engine that provides 700 pounds of thrust. The X-36 aircraft are remotely controlled by a pilot in a ground station cockpit, complete with a heads-up display. The pilot-in-the-loop approach eliminates the need for expensive and complex autonomous flight control systems. The design reduces weight and drag of the aircraft and explores new flight control technologies. The aircraft use split ailerons to provide yaw control, as well as raising and lowering in a normal fashion to provide roll control. The X-36 also incorporates a thrust vectoring system. "The flight control system functioned flawlessly and we look forward to subsequent flights to demonstrate the full range of manuverability of the aircraft," said Mark Sumich, X-36 project manager. "We knew within five to ten seconds into the flight that we had a good flying airplane," said Gary Jennings, McDonnell Douglas X-36 program manager. "Flying in a simulator is one thing, but until you actually fly the airplane, you don't really know how it will handle. Today we found out that it handled extremely well." NASA Ames and McDonnell Douglas developed the technologies required for a tailless fighter beginning in 1989. In 1993, McDonnell Douglas proposed the remotely piloted aircraft technology demonstration to validate the technologies in a real flight environment. In 1994, McDonnell Douglas began fabrication of the two aircraft in their rapid prototyping facility in St. Louis. The project was jointly funded under a roughly 50/50 cost- sharing arrangement between NASA and McDonnell Douglas. The combined program cost for the development, fabrication, and flight testing of the two prototype aircraft is approximately $20 million. "The first flight went very well; it was just textbook perfect," said Larry Walker, X-36 Project pilot. "It was a nice takeoff and the handling was great. I knew instantly that it was a nice flying airplane. I see no obstacles in the future for this type of technology." -end- Photos are available from NASA Ames Research Center's Public Affairs' homepage at URL: http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/dx and also are available from the NASA Dryden Photo Archive on the World Wide Web at URL: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/PhotoServer/photoserver.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 13:40:19 -0400 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Subject: Re: ER-2 Is this what they're really doing up there???? Sorry, couldn't resist! Greg Weigold ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ USAFnews wrote:> & > 970614. NASA research aircraft soars to new heights > > HOUSTON (AFNS) -- A NASA ER-2 aircraft, complete with a full array of <> (Courtesy of NASA News Service) ====================================================================== patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 22:59:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: MiGs in the US and Defections I included in my list some German 'umlaute', which apparently didn't make it correctly through the 7-bit ASCII mailer. The aircraft type for FE-4611 and FE-4612 should read Bue 181 (Bu"), short for Buecker (Bu"cker), while LSK stands for Luftstreitkraefte (kra"fte). I guess I neglected to point out, that the ISTM (Intelligence Squadron's Threat Museum) is also located at Nellis AFB, Las Vegas, NV. Additional information and corrections, like c/n, usage, current location, or more aircraft entries, are very welcome! Regarding David's (great!) list of defected/captured aircraft, I like to add that the (2) former Egyptian Su-20 'Fitter-C', which were used by WTD-61 (Wehrtechnische Dienststelle 61), at Manching, Bavaria, Germany, received LW serials 98+61 and 98+62, respectively. Also, shouldn't the Iraqi aircraft, flown to Iran in Jan/Feb 1991, be added to the lists, both, the Russian MiGs and Suchois, as well as the French Mirages? To the aircraft 'transfers' from west to east, I would like to add the T-33A in Albania, and of course all the U-2s and other aircraft, shot down over the FSU and the PRC, the B-29s, and Lend Lease aircraft, as well as many German aircraft, which were kept or captured after the end of W.W.II by the Soviets. Regarding the alleged sale of Ka-50 'Hokum' attack helicopters to the US Special Operation Forces, mentioned by Wei-Jen Su : According to World Air Power Journal (WAPJ) Vol.19, Winter 1994, (which every Skunk Works fan should have, because of the pretty good F-117A article), none of the 8 aircraft, supposed to be acquired through Group Vector, the (then) worldwide Ka-50 marketing company, were ever delivered. The reason was apparently that Kamov didn't have any Ka-50, besides the prototypes, and had just lied about their availability. The second rumored customer, Greece, didn't get any either. - -- Andreas PS: The digest version of my list looked even worse, with all those characters changed to "=HexCode". Sorry for that -- I don't know why that happened! - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 23:04:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: ER-2 I wrote: >* ER-2 = not a real military designation; "ER" standing for "Earth > Resource" aircraft; 2 airframes built for NASA ARC, and 1 TR-1A > modified after a ground collision and on loan to NASA ARC; all > ER-2s will be re-engined with F118-GE-101 engines, but probably > will not be re-designated; The last statement is actually wrong. Looking through my Lockheed Star magazines, I found a small article in Vol.6, No.11, from November 22, 1996, on page 4, which included a photo of ER-2S "NASA 706" in its new livery. The article states that the first ER-2S (Article 063, USAF serial '80-1063', NASA '706') was delivered back to Ames on November 8, 1996, and that a 2nd NASA ER-2S was to be completed in March 1997. The aircraft were definitely re-designated. No word about the 3rd ER-2, though. I don't know if the second ER-2S would be the former TR-1A (Article 069, USAF '80-1069', NASA '708') or the second original ER-2 (Article 097, USAF '80-1097', NASA '709'), which was in July 1995 modified to carry the NASA 'Starlink' satellite link in a dorsal pod, which is very similar to the USAF 'Senior Span' satellite link pod. Maybe the Starlink aircraft will be modified later? Sorry for the misinformation regarding the designation change. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:09:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Nellis YF-22A Richard W. Anderson wrote: >I've now had time to look at some of my photos from Nellis and the YF-22 was >painted with the serial 86-022 and it also had the Nellis 'WA' tail code. The new AirForces Monthly (AFM), No. 111, June 1997, has a photo of the aircraft on display at Nellis AFB, sporting not only the black-and-yellow checkered tail band, 'WA' tail code, and USAF FY-serial '86-022' on its tail fins, but also a Pratt&Whitney (PW) logo on the port air-intake. The corresponding text reads: "Other aircraft worthy of note include Lockheed-Martin's YF-22A '86-0022' which arrived from the plant at Marietta;" The USAF FY-serial '86-0022' belongs of course to another Lockheed aircraft from Marietta -- a C-5B, c/n 500-0108 -- the 108th C-5 and 27th C-5B built. I don't know if this was really the first prototype, which actually had the General Electric (GE) engines installed, and which was used by Lockheed Martin in Marietta, GA, for Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) work, and which apparently didn't receive an official USAF serial, or if it was actually the second prototype, which had PW engines, and which was used as a pole model for RCS (Radar Cross Section) tests, after it crashed at Edwards AFB, while carrying (the wrong?) USAF serial '87-0701' on its tail (instead of the correct serial '87-0700'). The usage of wrong or 'garbled' serials on USAF aircraft is nothing new, even though it's seldom nowadays. The latest examples are the re-activated USAF SR-71As, like Article 2022, USAF serial '64-17971', which originally carried the tail number '17971' as non-standard tail marking. It now sports the ACC (Air Combat Command)-style (but wrong!) tail number 'BB 17-971', instead of the correct 'BB 64-971'. When the current tail number style was introduced during the Vietnam war, several aircraft wore such 'garbled' tail markings. For example, F-4C-19-MC, USAF FY-serial '63-7544' originally had '37544' on its tail, according to the old system, and was repainted as 'FP 37-544', instead of 'FP 63-544', because the painter didn't have a clue that the two small digits were supposed to represent the Fiscal Year part of the serial, while the three bigger digits were supposed to be the last three digits of the serial. It is of course clear that this F-4C Phantom II was not a W.W.II veteran, nor was any SR-71A ordered in 1917. :) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 May 1997 00:03:26 -0500 From: Albert H Dobyns Subject: Re: Nellis YF-22A Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > > snipped a bunch > The latest examples are the re-activated USAF > SR-71As, like Article 2022, USAF serial '64-17971', which originally carried > the tail number '17971' as non-standard tail marking. It now sports the ACC > (Air Combat Command)-style (but wrong!) tail number 'BB 17-971', instead of > the correct 'BB 64-971'. SR-71 numbering system has always been something of a puzzle to me. Just about every book and magazine I have lists AF serial numbers for the Blackbirds as 64-179xx and the tail numbers were always 179xx. But the first digit, 1, used to be the last digit of the fiscal year the plane was ordered (or maybe a different word is more accurate). BUT I have copies of various SR-71 maintenance summaries and planes are always identified as 6179xx. There is no '4' between the '6' and '1'!! I do have a copy of an old magazine that lists the SR-71 numbers the same way. But somewhere along the way the numbering scheme was changed to 64-179xx yet I haven't found anything in writing that explains this. It seems to me to be an inconsistency that should be possible to settle on one numbering system. But I guess by now it's a little late to be worrying about it now. Puzzled Al > > > It is of course clear that this F-4C Phantom II was not a W.W.II veteran, > nor was any SR-71A ordered in 1917. :) > > -- Andreas > > --- --- > Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org > 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu > Flint, MI 48502-1239 > Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ > --- --- ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #52 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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