From: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V6 #65 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Saturday, July 26 1997 Volume 06 : Number 065 In this issue: re: F-22 and JSF refueling What were you thinking? re: What were you thinking? Re: AC-130U [none] CIA re: AC-130U Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Re: AC-130U Aurora - an "insider" speaks Beale SR-71 @ Oshkosh Skunk related NASA press release. Re: Beale Re: Beale re: SR-71 @ Oshkosh Re[2]: SR-71 @ Oshkosh Re[2]: Beale Re: Beale See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 11:12:33 GMT From: "Art Hanley" Subject: re: F-22 and JSF refueling I'll have to fully digest DrBob's interesting post at home, where I've got more time. Couple o' quick things, though. I don't favor putting a probe on the F-117A. On the A/F-117X, it would have been a retractable probe fully faired into a flush housing. Doing that on the A may be too expensive and require too much cutting and internal rearranging for what you'd gain. I've seen pictures somewhere of the Israeli F-16s with bolt-on probes, and AW&ST and other pubs have referred to them. I do not know if this was ever adopted operationally. Could be something they are marketing internationally , or could be that they decided that it didn't offer enough benfit for the IAF to adpot. Glad you didn't take offense, I had another joke lined up, but I'll save it for later. Art Hanley Not even an electron of this message is associated with even a proton of my employer's views, even on the quantum level ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 1997 15:44:42 -0700 From: patrick Subject: What were you thinking? From: USAFnews Subject: 22 July 97 AFNS WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Some aircraft of the future will wear a different coat of paint -- in fact, no coat of paint. A lightweight decal-type application, Department of Defense officials said, could save billions of dollars in fuel and maintenance costs while it helps the environment. The Joint Strike Fighter Program -- an Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps initiative -- together with the 3M Corp. and Boeing Co., has developed technology to replace exterior paint on military aircraft, creating the first military "paintless aircraft." Defense officials unveiled the innovation at a press conference July 17 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md. The first "paintless aircraft," an F/A-18, is currently being flight tested at Patuxent River. "The paintless aircraft technology represents an environmental breakthrough for the military that has the potential to save the Defense Department billions of dollars," said Sherri W. Goodman, deputy undersecretary of defense for environmental security. The majority of all hazardous materials associated with aircraft comes from painting and depainting. The Joint Strike Fighter expects to save more than $3 billion for the life cycle of the fleet. "The Joint Strike Fighter initiative has afforded the Navy the opportunity to take a pro-active role in finding new ways to reduce hazardous materials disposal costs," said Robert Pirie, acting assistant secretary of the Navy, who joined Goodman at Patuxent. "And it has the added benefit of teaming the Navy and Marine Corps with the other services and industry in doing so ================================================================== It'll never fly....... 1. They will get the numbers pasted on upside down or crooked. 2. Testor's, Revell and Monogram will file a class action suit for patent infringements against Boeing , the Navy, the Air Force, the Corps, the decal company, et al. 3. They will have to contract for giant dishes to "wet" the decals before application. There goes the $3 billion in savings. 4. First time it rains the decals will slide right off the planes. 5. Biggest reason? Every kid knows decals only come in 1/72, 1/48, and 1/32 scale. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 21 Jul 97 17:07:35 GMT From: "Art Hanley" Subject: re: What were you thinking? Another big problem: What if you don't get the decal on straight and part of the paint hangs off the side of the aircraft and flops in the wind? Art Hanley "Holmes, what may we deduce about his employers' views from this message"? "Nothing, Watson, because there's no relationship between the two" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 97 01:42:57 -0700 From: Mental Jewelry Subject: Re: AC-130U On 7/21/97 9:00 AM, David Lednicer wrote: > > I thought Rockwell had the contract to create AC-130Us, not >Lockheed Ontario> Also, last I knew, Lockheed Ontario is/was not part of >the Skunk Works. All of the Skunk Works was at Burbank and is now at >Palmdale. Lockheed Ontario became part of the Skunk Works a bit over a year ago; and several projects are slowly migrating from the Ontario facility to Palmdale... - -- clew@cris.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2925 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:20:07 GMT From: abeaumont@canterbury.kent.sch.uk (Adrian Beaumont) Subject: [none] I have just subscribed to skunk-works-digest and have read the first digest to be e-mailed to me. The dicussions on the merits of probe and drogue and the boom methods of air to air refueling were most interesting. I note that the view is that the probe and drogue method is regarded as being harder for the receiver pilot than the boom method. About a year or so ago on a TV game show here in Britain contestants flew a Royal Air Force flight simulator and had to fly behind a tanker aircraft and get the refueling probe into the basket. None of them were pilots, yet most managed it.......................... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 12:44:06 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: CIA FORMER SPY LEADS CIA'S COVERT OPERATIONS WASHINGTON -- One of the CIA's legends was called out of retirement Monday as the new director, George J. Tenet, made a dramatic move to reinvigorate the nation's troubled spy agency. According to the LA Times, Tenet named 56-year-old Jack Downing -- the only person ever to serve as CIA station chief in both Moscow and Beijing -- deputy CIA director for operations. In addition to Downing's appointment, Tenet announced that Air Force Lt. Gen. John Gordon, 50, has been nominated to be deputy director of the CIA. That is the No. 2 post in the U.S. intelligence community, as well as Tenet's former job. Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:29:21 -0700 From: habu@why.net Subject: re: AC-130U On 7/21/97 9:00 AM, David Lednicer wrote: > > I thought Rockwell had the contract to create AC-130Us, not Lockheed > Ontario. Also, last I knew, Lockheed Ontario is/was not part of the > Skunk Works. All of the Skunk Works was at Burbank and is now at > Palmdale. The AC-130U is a modified C-130H. Lockheed builds the airframe (the C-130H part), Rockwell makes the gunship mods (the A & U parts). Rockwell's mod plant is (conveniently) at Palmdale. The 'U-boat' uses the same T56-A-15 turboprops as the 'H'. Per Andreas' question a while back, the box-like exhaust structures are for IR supression, not thrust vectoring. The AC-130U uses a variant of the F-15E's APG-70 radar, now called the APQ-180. (I work on the radar simulation for the AC-130U & MC-130H trainers). Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:38:11 -0700 From: habu@why.net Subject: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Lockheed has a contract to supply modded/updated surplus USN A-4s for the Argentine air force. I believe this project was started under the Ontario division but has recently (in the last, oh, six months) been transferred to the Skunk Works at Palmdale. The program is just about to enter flight test. Would anyone care to speculate why this is now a 'skunky' program? Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 09:03:21 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project At 08:38 AM 7/23/97 -0700, you wrote: >Lockheed has a contract to supply modded/updated surplus USN A-4s for >the Argentine air force. I believe this project was started under the >Ontario division but has recently (in the last, oh, six months) been >transferred to the Skunk Works at Palmdale. The program is just about >to enter flight test. Would anyone care to speculate why this is now >a 'skunky' program? IMHO......The Skunk Works you see today, and notice you see a lot of it, is designed to operate as an autonomous unit. A profit center rather than a cost center. It has staffed up to be able to work on a number of smaller programs concurrently. And all done in a manner to show the Skunk works as a profit making division. This makes the corporate people happy. And it makes sense. They have a better facility and a wider range of trained staff. These people can be shuffled in and out of a future black project more economically and transparently, as needed. And without disruption (employee relocation, security, retraining) since they are already Skunk Workers. And the new Skunk Works make a bank deposit every accounting period. I don't think its the "same" Skunk Works that Kelly Johnson ran. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --------------------------------------- And when I die I want to go cool, calm, and collected. Like my grandfather did on that last flight. And not like all those screaming passengers on his airplane. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 11:28:27 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project Lockheed transferred a large number of employees from Ontario to Palmdale last year. Perhaps it's more feasible to do the mods. in Palmdale now. Or, this could be a way to get funding for projects not budgeted. Or... maybe they don't have much to do? Wayne habu@why.net wrote: > > Lockheed has a contract to supply modded/updated surplus USN A-4s for > the Argentine air force. I believe this project was started under the > Ontario division but has recently (in the last, oh, six months) been > transferred to the Skunk Works at Palmdale. The program is just about > to enter flight test. Would anyone care to speculate why this is now > a 'skunky' program? > > Greg Fieser - -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 23 Jul 97 12:54:08 -0700 From: Mental Jewelry Subject: Re: Skunk Works A-4 Skyhawk Project On 7/23/97 8:38 AM, habu@why.net wrote: >Lockheed has a contract to supply modded/updated surplus USN A-4s for >the Argentine air force. I believe this project was started under the >Ontario division but has recently (in the last, oh, six months) been >transferred to the Skunk Works at Palmdale. The program is just about >to enter flight test. Would anyone care to speculate why this is now >a 'skunky' program? > > Greg Fieser > Yep, this project started off at Lockheed Ontario. Part of the reason for the shift is just that *everything* is moving to Palmdale before they close down Ontario. Most of the support staff for flight testing at Ontario has already been moved/replaced by Palmdale, so (AFAIK) all test flights are now flying out of Palmdale. LAS-O is beginning to look like a ghost town. - -- clew@cris.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2925 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 01:54:09 GMT From: blackbird@telis.org (Jon Price (PJ)) Subject: Re: AC-130U On Wed, 23 Jul 1997 08:29:21 -0700, you wrote: >> >> The AC-130U is a modified C-130H. Lockheed builds the airframe >> (the C-130H part), Rockwell makes the gunship mods (the A & U parts). >> Rockwell's mod plant is (conveniently) at Palmdale. >> I believe that you are all behind on your mergers. IIRC, the Rockwell plant in Palmdale where the c-130U's are produced was acquired by Boeing sometime last year. I do not know if the contract for the mods went with the sale. Jon Price (PJ) *From the Eastern Slopes of* *The Beautiful High Sierra* *Bishop, California, USA* blackbird@telis.org =20 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:04:31 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Aurora - an "insider" speaks From Glenn Campbell's source, posted to the Area 51 Mailing list. Seems fairly reliable as far as net postings go :0 ______________ Within the past week, I had a chance encounter with a former TTR worker. Through my own contacts, I know that he is genuine and has worked both at Tonopah Test Range and Edwards AFB in a middle management position. His contact with me was purely coincidental. As is common in these encounters, details spill out without my asking for them. He didn't use many words, though, and there was an element of cautiousness in his voice. I knew that whatever he said then was all I would get. 1) The "Aurora" exists and has been operational for about five years. He didn't use the name "Aurora", I did. He called it only "that other plane" and by body language indicated that we were talking about the same thing. He said it was built by Lockheed Skunkworks. He said he knows it exists, because he watched it flight tested at Edwards (apparently about five years ago). I said, "Edwards? How can you fly anything secret at Edwards?" He said, "There is so much coming and going out of there that no one notices." This implies that the plane looks and sounds similar to an ordinary aircraft on takeoff and landing. ____________ Of course, the Aurora reffered to could be any one of several Lockheed projects that have been around since the late 1970s, from the unmanned test a/c to the "pulser" Aurora (which doesn't *always*& "pulse" on takeoff or landing- suggesting a combined cycle powerplant or a VERY tempermental PDE). Dan _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." (New York Times) ---------------------------------http://www.macconnect.com/~quellish _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:04:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Beale Tidbit from the Area 51 mailing list- this activity was also observed at Beale several years ago during the last spat of "pulser" sightings in the Southwest Dan ====================================================================== SOMETHING COOKING AT BEALE? From: [withheld] Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 01:06:37 -0700 To: webmaster@ufomind.com Subject: Thought you would like to know. I find your site very interesting and informing. I live in Northern California near Beale Air Force Base. Anyway, my reason for E-Mailing you is because something is definitely going on at Beale AFB, I just don't know what. Beale is a semi-isolated base out in a rural area. Every so often, quite often lately, they keep the control tower open all night and turn the bases lights of and do not allow any aircraft to land. I learned of this because my father works in the nearby approach control and they notify approach when they do this. I know it's not as interesting as Area 51 but I thought maybe something Top Secret was going on there. Thought you'd like to know. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ I drank WHAT?? - -Socrates ---------------------------------http://www.macconnect.com/~quellish -------------http://www.macconnect.com/~quellish/3d/3d.html _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 14:11:12 EST From: Sam Subject: SR-71 @ Oshkosh Happened to notice that an SR-71 will be doing three fly-overs on Aug 2 at the EAA's fly-in at Oshkosh WI. Source NASA press release July 25 97 Too bad I can't make it there until Aug 3d....damn.....Maybe next year.... | / MI USAF 66-70 AFSC 424X1 \ /___________________ Sam (PDQ-2-VW N3143P) \_____/ | IBM Systems Programmer Chicago/ | * | O Indiana University - I | Ft. Wayne | H Purdue University at Fort Wayne L | 1794-1994 | Fort Wayne, Indiana USA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 15:41:10 EDT From: JOHN SZALAY Subject: Skunk related NASA press release. For those of you that do not receive the NASA press releases, here is the release refered to, in the prior post. - ------------------------------------------------------------------ NASA TO SHOWCASE NEW ACTIVITIES AT UPCOMING AIRCRAFT FLY-IN CONVENTION "Boomers Turn 50" is NASA's theme for this year's Experimental Aircraft Association (EAA) fly-in convention in Oshkosh, WI, July 30 - August 5 -- considered one of the world's largest and most significant aviation events. Last year, more than 800,000 people attended and over 11,000 airplanes were displayed -- including 2,478 showplanes. the growth of the Agency's general aviation, space transportation and Small Business Innovation Research programs. The NASA theme recognizes both the 50th anniversary of the U.S. Air Force and the 50th anniversary of the breaking of the "sound barrier." One of the many highlights of the event will feature NASA's SR-71 aircraft conducting three fly-overs on Saturday, August 2. Additionally, NASA will conduct four aeronautics-related news events on August 1-2. FRIDAY, AUGUST 1 NASA Aeronautics Vision: 11 a.m. EDT, NASA Forum Tent NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin will outline objectives to ensure that NASA's work in science and technology sustains U.S. leadership in civil aeronautics and space. Goldin will discuss NASA's vision to revitalize general aviation -- enabling U.S. industry to deliver 10,000 aircraft annually within 10 years and 20,000 aircraft annually within 20 years. Student Design Competition: 11:50 a.m. EDT, NASA Forum Tent NASA and the Federal Aviation Administration(FAA) will present the winners of the third annual NASA/FAA National General Aviation Design Competition. The competition allows university engineering students to participate in a major national effort to rebuild the U.S. general aviation sector. Students will learn who takes the top prize and EAA president Tom Poberezny will announce a new EAA-sponsored "design, build and fly" category for 1998. Plaques and prize money will be presented by NASA Administrator Daniel S. Goldin and Acting FAA Administrator Barry L. Valentine. A "retrofit" award will be presented by Bruce Landsberg of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association's Air Safety Foundation. Williams V-JET-II Introduction: 2 p.m. EDT, EAA West Ramp: This informal news briefing will introduce an aircraft designed to demonstrate lightweight, quiet and affordable turbofan engine technology for future light aircraft. The Williams International V-JET-II is an outgrowth of the NASA-sponsored General Aviation Propulsion program, aimed at revitalizing general aviation. By agreement, the company will perform engine development work that results in a next-generation demonstrator turbofan that will power the V-JET-II in demonstrations by the year 2000. Participants will be NASA Administrator Daniel Goldin and Williams International Chairman Dr. Sam Williams. SATURDAY, AUGUST 2 General Aviation News: Noon EDT, EAA Press Tent: The NASA & FAA General Aviation Research and Development Media Briefing will include information on: * A new FAA-led flight training curricula effort. * Technology breakthroughs in crash survivability and in quiet, efficient propeller design. * The national aviation safety initiative. * An update on the FAA's Flight 2000 "free flight" demonstration. Participants will include Dr. Robert Whitehead, NASA Associate Administrator for Aeronautics and Space Transportation Technology, and Guy Gardner, FAA Associate Administrator for Regulation and Certification. To contact NASA public affairs personnel during the Oshkosh event, media representatives should call 414-235-8273/8276 . - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:15:00 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: Beale Dan forwarded- >Every so often, quite often lately, they keep the control tower open all >night and turn the base lights off and do not allow any aircraft to >land. I learned of this because my father works in the nearby approach >control and they notify approach when they do this. They keep the control tower open all night but don't allow anyone to land? Now that you mention it, that does seem a little odd. ;-} Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 14:35:52 GMT From: "Art Hanley" Subject: Re: Beale Reply by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Date : Friday, July 25, 1997 14:35:50 Reply to : , SMTP@SPKSYS12@Servers[] Reply: Hey, they are Air Force, after all. Art Hanley Once again, do not make the mistake of believing that whatever I droned on about above has anything to do with I am authorized to drone on about. -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To : SMTP@SPKSYS12@Servers[] From : "Tom Robison" Subject : Re: Beale Date : Friday, July 25, 1997 at 1:15:00 pm PDT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan forwarded- >Every so often, quite often lately, they keep the control tower open all >night and turn the base lights off and do not allow any aircraft to >land. I learned of this because my father works in the nearby approach >control and they notify approach when they do this. They keep the control tower open all night but don't allow anyone to land? Now that you mention it, that does seem a little odd. ;-} Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 97 16:33:58 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: re: SR-71 @ Oshkosh The plan is that the SR-71B will make a pass, and then climb up and hit the tanker. After taking on fuel, it'll accelerate and come back over Oshkosh at about 50,000 feet and Mach 2. It'll then head back to Edwards. Art Hanley "Boris, Is opinions above those of his employer?" "Hoo-boy, Natasha; Not even Moose and Squirrel would believe that". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:22:02 -0400 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (Greg Weigold) Subject: Re[2]: SR-71 @ Oshkosh Your disclaimers getting better!! I can't wait to hear about this! Hopefully the media will be in attendance, ane those of us who can't get there, will get to see something on the national news that night. Of course, if someone out there happens to get it on video, it might make it to someone's page ...... hint hint Greg Columbia,SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: re: SR-71 @ Oshkosh Author: ahanley@usace.mil at INTERNET Date: 7/25/97 4:33 PM The plan is that the SR-71B will make a pass, and then climb up and hit the tanker. After taking on fuel, it'll accelerate and come back over Oshkosh at about 50,000 feet and Mach 2. It'll then head back to Edwards. Art Hanley "Boris, Is opinions above those of his employer?" "Hoo-boy, Natasha; Not even Moose and Squirrel would believe that". ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 22:26:04 -0400 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (Greg Weigold) Subject: Re[2]: Beale Sometimes I can't help but think that the guys who come up with the 'black' programs read these lists and sit back laughing. I'd love to hear real proof of the 'Aurora' or whatever... if only our cravings for the plane could make it real. "Show me the plane, Jerry! Show me the plane!" Greg SColumbia,SC ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Beale Author: skunk-works-owner@eagle.netwrx1.com at INTERNET Date: 7/25/97 2:35 PM Reply by : Art Hanley@IM@SPK Date : Friday, July 25, 1997 14:35:50 Reply to : , SMTP@SPKSYS12@Servers[] Reply: Hey, they are Air Force, after all. Art Hanley Once again, do not make the mistake of believing that whatever I droned on about above has anything to do with I am authorized to drone on about. -------------------------- [Original Message] ------------------------- To : SMTP@SPKSYS12@Servers[] From : "Tom Robison" Subject : Re: Beale Date : Friday, July 25, 1997 at 1:15:00 pm PDT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Dan forwarded- >Every so often, quite often lately, they keep the control tower open all >night and turn the base lights off and do not allow any aircraft to >land. I learned of this because my father works in the nearby approach >control and they notify approach when they do this. They keep the control tower open all night but don't allow anyone to land? Now that you mention it, that does seem a little odd. ;-} Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 21:00:33 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Beale Dan I would like to know what exactly is the point you are trying to make by posting these items from the Area 51 mailing list. Are you implying anything? If so, what? And what evidence are you offering? Please be specific. If you are telling us the Aurora exists then say so. If you are telling us that it has been heard taking off using different types of engines, then say so. And if you believe these points to be true then you must have evidence for your beliefs. Would you please share that evidence with the group. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #65 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to either "skunk-works-digest-owner@netwrx1.com" or, if you don't like to type a lot, "georgek@netwrx1.com". A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for e-mail request by sending a message to majordomo@netwrx1.com with no subject and a line containing "get skunk-works-digest vNN.nMMM" (where "NN" is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). You can get a list of all available digests by sending the one line command "index skunk-works-digest". If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica