From: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V6 #67 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@eagle.netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Thursday, August 7 1997 Volume 06 : Number 067 In this issue: CIA Studies in Intellegence on line Re: Darden testing SCIENTISTS SAY THEY MADE A FROG FLOAT IN AIR Military spaceplane -AvWeek John Boyd & OODA Interesting Article Re: Interesting Article Re: Interesting Article Re: Interesting Article/Man Made Triangles LTA Vehicles at Skunkworks? Article on Edwards tours Oshkosh flyby Re: Article on Edwards tours Re: Article on Edwards tours Re: Oshkosh flyby Re: Article on Edwards tours Re: Interesting Article/Man Made Triangles Re[2]: Article on Edwards tours Dryden Tours Noice Abatemet FORWARDED Lifting Bodies - Drawings? B-model "down" Re: Noice Abatemet FORWARDED FW: The ultimate list extraction tool! See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the skunk-works or skunk-works-digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 07:16:26 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: CIA Studies in Intellegence on line The CIA has some copies of their "Studies in Intellegence" on-line. They also list many articles that can be requested from the National Archives, sme dating back to the fifties. Some of the articles would be of interest to skunk-works readers. http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/pubs.html and http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/index.html are good starting points. Yes, you can find the CIA study of ufos also. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:12:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Darden testing Er, it's _Dryden_, not Darden. We have the honor of being named after Hugh L. Dryden, a very famous aerodynamicist and NACA Administrator. It looks like the first inert flight will be the end of August. We've had the two rehearsal flights without the fixture mounted already. We had the FRR last week and the AFSRB is later this week or early next week. There's no real program for sonic boom testing right now. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Wayne Busse wrote: > Haven't heard from Mary at Darden for a while, maybe she could update us > on LASRE testing re: live firing on Blackbird. > > Also, anything interesting with the sonic boom testing lately? > > Wayne > -- > Wayne Busse > wings@sky.net > wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 Aug 1997 13:48:42 -0700 From: "A.J. Craddock" Subject: SCIENTISTS SAY THEY MADE A FROG FLOAT IN AIR Found this reported in some smallish regional newspapers, but none of the majors. Obviously only the tip of a huge anti-gravity research iceberg. Tony Craddock Web Administrator CSETI http://www.cseti.org SCIENTISTS SAY THEY MADE A FROG FLOAT IN AIR FROM NEWS SERVICE REPORTS 04/13/97 The Record, Northern New Jersey All Editions Sunday (Copyright 1997) British and Dutch scientists say they have succeeded in floating a frog in air - using a magnetic field a million times stronger than that of the Earth. And, they say, there is no reason why larger creatures, even humans, could not perform the same gravity-defying feat. "It's perfectly feasible if you have a large enough magnetic field," said Peter Main, professor of physics at Nottingham University, one of the British scientists who collaborated with colleagues at the University of Nijmegen to create the first levitating amphibian. Their endeavors are reported briefly in the current issue of the British magazine New Scientist. To hold up the frog, the magnetic field had to be a million times stronger than that of the Earth, the scientists said. Only then was it strong enough to distort the orbits of electrons in the frog's atoms. "If the magnetic field pushes the frog away with sufficient force, you will overcome gravity and the frog will float," Main said. The trick also works on plants, grasshoppers, and fish in the same way, scientists say. "Every ordinary object, whether it be a frog, a grasshopper, or a sandwich, is magnetic, but it's very rare to see such a spectacular demonstration of this," said Main. The scientists said their frog showed no signs of distress after floating in the air inside a magnetic cylinder. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 17:20:22 +1200 (NZST) From: Kerry Ferrand Subject: Military spaceplane -AvWeek Looks like the latest USAF spaceplane effort is leaping ahead..according to the online version of the latest Aviation Week they are planning helicopter drop & landing tests of a sub-scale vehicle (much like the recent ones the Japanese ALFLEX performed in Australia) within months. The hardware side seems to be being handled by Boeing so far. Here's a quote for the "Buzzard" watchers: "As now defined, the military spaceplane will be a two-stage system that employs a "pop-up" technique for actually inserting a payload into orbit. The "pop-up" element of this architecture is a mini-spaceplane, a reusable upper stage carried to hypersonic speeds by a larger aircraft. " http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm K ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 1997 08:02:44 -0700 From: habu@why.net Subject: John Boyd & OODA Someone one the list asked about John Boyd and OODA a while back: The latest issue of LMTAS Code One magazine (July 97) has an article about Boyd and OODA, written by Harry Hillaker - a fellow Fighter Mafia member. The article covers the basic principles of OODA, how Boyd and Hillaker met, how the Fighter Mafia was formed, how the Lightweight Fighter competition came from the Fighter Mafia, and how OODA heavily influenced the design of the F-16 (LMTAS product tie-in). If anyone is interested in the article, I'll talk to Eric about scanning it in for the list... Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 13:59:28 -0500 (CDT) From: drbob@creighton.edu Subject: Interesting Article Members of the Skunk Works group may find the following to be of some interest. My colleague Gerald Haines (the NRO Historian) has recently published an article entitled "A Die Hard Issue: CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, 1947-90," in Studies in Intelligence. The unclassified article in at this URL: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unlcas/ufo.html There are several worthy topics. First is the official recognition that many of the early UFO sighting in the 1950s and 1960s were U-2s and A-12s painted silver and reflecting the sun. Second is the revelation that U.S. analysts feared that the Soviet Union might exploit the UFO paranoia by creating a flood of bogus UFO reports that would saturate the U.S. air defense network, enabling Soviet bombers and missiles to attack largely undetected and unopposed. Finally is a reference which may hint at a future goldmine. I _believe_ that this is THE source for which many of us have waited: Pedlow, Gregory W., and Donald E. Welzenbach. _The Central Intelligence Agency and Overhead Reconnaissance: The U-2 and OXCART Program, 1954-1974. Washington, D.C.: CIA History Staff, 1992. I have no idea if this has been declassified and released. Rest assured that there are a gazillion FOIA requests for this document. This may be the one that is pending British clearance, which may never be forthcoming. As many lurkers here may recall, the issue of "black" aircraft as UFOs has appeared many times in this forum, and this article appears to verify much of that speculation. DrBob ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Aug 97 16:44:17 EDT From: keller@eos.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Interesting Article DrBob wrote (in part): >Members of the Skunk Works group may find the following to be of some >interest. >My colleague Gerald Haines (the NRO Historian) has recently published an >article entitled "A Die Hard Issue: CIA's Role in the Study of UFOs, >1947-90," in Studies in Intelligence. The unclassified article in at this >URL: >http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unlcas/ufo.html [stuff deleted] Slight correction to this, although this should be fairly obvious to anyone who's spent much time fishing through unclassified government documents: http://www.odci.gov/csi/studies/97unclas/ufo.html ^ This report is indeed, interesting. It estimates that over 50% of UFO sightings in the 60's were merely U-2s. - --Paul ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Aug 1997 23:02:08 -0500 (CDT) From: drbob@creighton.edu Subject: Re: Interesting Article My thanks for clarifying the URL. If only my fingers could spell as well as my computer! DrBob ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 09:32:44 From: David Subject: Re: Interesting Article/Man Made Triangles Paul writes: >This report is indeed, interesting. It estimates that over 50% of UFO >sightings in the 60's were merely U-2s. I've no doubt that some of the reports were U-2s or A-12s and it's good to see agencies putting the record straight. Could someone explain to me why Kelly and Ben hadn't realised that the a/c would reflect light so well that they'd appear as brilliant balls of light. I'm assuming that covert missions over hostile airspace would be best executed with a minimum of attention. I can't help but wonder when the agency(ies) operating these silent, hovering triangular a/c will put the record straight and remove the 'alien' element from what are clearly man-made vehicles. As this list discusses advanced aerospace matters,how would its members create an a/c that can hover in silence except for a humming noise. Again we're not talking ETs or X-Fles, so how do they do that ? LTA vehicle with ducted fans ? This is an engineering question on which I'd appreciate comments. WHo knows we could even come up with the same answer as their designers... If this thread is considered too strange to be on charter, e-mail replies would be best..I don't want to cause waves, but it has been quiet lately. Thanks David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 02:18:42 -0700 From: patrick Subject: LTA Vehicles at Skunkworks? This may be just more hot air: In the July 25, 1997 issue of the Skunk Works Star is an article describing patents awarded to Skunk Works employees by the US Government Patent Office. There are 3 patents awards mentioned for LTA vehicles. One is for a mooring tower assembly. Another for a ballonet system. And the third is for a gas bag assembly structure. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:48:59 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Article on Edwards tours In the August issue of "Private Pilot", an article on pages 82-83, describes touring Edwards Air Force Base and NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center. For those who may consider a visit, this is a very interesting tour and quite an eye opener in many ways. The article gives very good directions from L.A. to Edwards, (watch carefully for the I-5/Rte 14 interchange) and supplies all the information needed to schedule and time your travel and tours. I visited Edwards AFB, and Dryden FRC last October, and really enjoyed the trip. It would recommend it as a "must see" if you are in the area. Before you go, get the "Private Pilot" article. Wayne - -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net http://www.sky.net/~wings ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:13:01 +0000 From: mhaberm@tenet.edu Subject: Oshkosh flyby The Blackbird flyby at Oshkosh last Saturday went as scheduled but not as planned. The NASA SR-71 made an appearance in formation with a KC-135 and T-38 and then made a solo flyby. It was to hit the tanker and come back with a supersonic pass at 50,000 ft. in honor of Yeager's flight (he was in attendance). As we watched toward the south there was a large plume of fuel from the tanker contact. A few minutes later the announcement was made that a fuel flow problem caused an abort to the flyby. On TV that evening, there was video of the Blackbird on the ground at Mitchell field in Milwaukee. Anyone have further news? Mike Habermehl ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 08:24:48 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: Article on Edwards tours Wayne Busse wrote: >I visited Edwards AFB, and Dryden FRC last October, and really enjoyed >the trip. >It would recommend it as a "must see" if you are in the area. >Before you go, get the "Private Pilot" article. I might also recommend reading the September issue of Smithsonian's Air and Space, which has a panoramic aerial photo of Edwards, with an overlaid map indicating where all the significant events in aviation history occurred. Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:15:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Article on Edwards tours Better yet, contact someone on the list who works at Dryden. She'll provide the phone numbers and other information and, if you have any difficulties, help with the reservations. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Wayne Busse wrote: > In the August issue of "Private Pilot", an article on pages > 82-83, describes touring Edwards Air Force Base and NASA's > Dryden Flight Research Center. > > For those who may consider a visit, this is a very interesting > tour and quite an eye opener in many ways. > > The article gives very good directions from L.A. to Edwards, > (watch carefully for the I-5/Rte 14 interchange) and supplies > all the information needed to schedule and time your travel and tours. > > I visited Edwards AFB, and Dryden FRC last October, and really enjoyed > the trip. > It would recommend it as a "must see" if you are in the area. > Before you go, get the "Private Pilot" article. > > Wayne > -- > Wayne Busse > wings@sky.net > http://www.sky.net/~wings > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:19:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Oshkosh flyby Yes, I do. It's a broken fuel line, easy to fix. The USAF bailed us out with a C-141 to carry all the stuff back and the crew is there right now. The current schedule has the SR-71 returning to EDW on Friday morning, with the C-141 coming by to pick up all the equipment and bring it back that afternoon. The crew will come home Friday evening. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 mhaberm@tenet.edu wrote: > The Blackbird flyby at Oshkosh last Saturday went as scheduled but not > as planned. The NASA SR-71 made an appearance in formation with a KC-135 > and T-38 and then made a solo flyby. It was to hit the tanker and come > back with a supersonic pass at 50,000 ft. in honor of Yeager's flight > (he was in attendance). As we watched toward the south there was a large > plume of fuel from the tanker contact. A few minutes later the > announcement was made that a fuel flow problem caused an abort to the > flyby. On TV that evening, there was video of the Blackbird on the > ground at Mitchell field in Milwaukee. > > Anyone have further news? > > Mike Habermehl > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:48:23 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Re: Article on Edwards tours I wasn't going to volunteer Mary, but what better source than someone who works there. Thanks Mary. Wayne >Mary Shafer wrote: > > Better yet, contact someone on the list who works at Dryden. She'll > provide the phone numbers and other information and, if you have any > difficulties, help with the reservations. - -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 97 8:53:47 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: Re: Interesting Article/Man Made Triangles David, In defense of Kelly Johnson and Ben Rich, any glinting and ocasional flash of light was probably unimportant in the scheme of things. Those would only be visible for a second and frankly wouldn't be of use to anyone. Frankly, neither of these aircraft were intended to be covert in the classic sense If your target has radar, the fact that your aircraft glints once in a while is of academic interest, they'll have seen you on radar. The Soviets usually knew whenever a U-2 flew overhead, but for a number of years they couldn't do anything about it. The A-12/SR-71 is the same. If you have a sophisticated radar net, or a good IR search capability, you'll know it's there. The thing is that between its speed, altitude and ECM, there's not much you can do about it. There was some work on trying to reduce radar return on the A-12/SR-71, but it wasn't as operationally successful as was hoped. In many cases the A-12 and SR weren't detected because the target area wasn't alerted and didn't have powerful enough radars searching the area. By the time (if) they became aware that a Blackbird was around and fired up everything to look, it was gone. Art Hanley My employers' have very definite opinions, which they'll promulgate at a moment's notice. What's written above, though has nothing to do with them. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:59:41 -0400 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Subject: Re[2]: Article on Edwards tours Gee, Did you have anyone in particular in mind, MARY! Living on the east coast all my life, I've always wanted to go to the left coast and visit places like Edwards, Dryden, the JPL labs, etc. I've driven past KSC, but haven't gotten on that tour either! Only place I've ever been that might be interesting to this list is Lakehurst NAS (now NAEC I think). Saw where the Hindenburg crashed, worked in the hangar so big it has its own weather! Did some SAR training with HS75 before they transferred out to Pennsylvania. Interesting to see a carrier deck on solid ground, complete with full arresting gear! Don't know if I'll ever make it to EDW, but hopefully you'll still be out there! I'd love to meet someone who has personally flown an SR-71. Course, by the time I get out there, I'll probably be 'transported' via Scotty's favorite toy! GW ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Article on Edwards tours Author: Mary Shafer at INTERNET Date: 8/6/97 11:15 AM Better yet, contact someone on the list who works at Dryden. She'll provide the phone numbers and other information and, if you have any difficulties, help with the reservations. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Wayne Busse wrote: > In the August issue of "Private Pilot", an article on pages > 82-83, describes touring Edwards Air Force Base and NASA's > Dryden Flight Research Center. > > For those who may consider a visit, this is a very interesting > tour and quite an eye opener in many ways. > > The article gives very good directions from L.A. to Edwards, > (watch carefully for the I-5/Rte 14 interchange) and supplies > all the information needed to schedule and time your travel and tours. > > I visited Edwards AFB, and Dryden FRC last October, and really enjoyed > the trip. > It would recommend it as a "must see" if you are in the area. > Before you go, get the "Private Pilot" article. > > Wayne > -- > Wayne Busse > wings@sky.net > http://www.sky.net/~wings > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:01:53 -0700 From: "Sid R. Phillips" Subject: Dryden Tours Dryden Flight Research Center Tours are offered free of charge Monday through Friday ... See: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/EAO/Tour/tour.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 14:45:40 -0400 (EDT) From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: Noice Abatemet FORWARDED On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:32:38 -0500 > From: Wayne Busse > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Regarding the question of how an aircraft could be soundless? > > I'm not an engineer, but if you generate the same sound > 180 degrees out of phase, it should cancel out. > > I believe there are products on the market currently in > noise reduction for safety and automotive applications. > > Why couldn't this work for aviation also? Possibly for > covert insertion of troops? > > Wayne > -- > Wayne Busse > wings@sky.net > http://www.sky.net/~wings > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 16:23:46 -0400 From: jck@scd.etn.com (Jason Koval) Subject: Lifting Bodies - Drawings? Speaking of getting info from someone on the list: I am building a collection of scale models and I wanted to do some models of the lifting body research aircraft (HL-10, M2F2, M2F3, X-24A & B) and I'm wondering if anybody knows where I can get some drawings to help me do the models and maybe a history of the flights and pilots, etc? Please contact me privately at jck@scd.etn.com if you can help. ALSO: I have been trying to find out where I can get a copy of Jay Miller's X-planes book, but so far I have been unsuccessful. Anybody have any ideas on how I can obtain one? Sources? Stores? Thanks... - ----- Begin Included Message ----- From skunk-works-owner@eagle.netwrx1.com Wed Aug 6 11:56 EDT 1997 X-Authentication-Warning: eagle.netwrx1.com: majordom set sender to owner-skunk-works@eagle.netwrx1.com using -f Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 11:15:59 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer X-Sender: shafer@ursa-major To: Wayne Busse Cc: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Article on Edwards tours Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Length: 1240 Better yet, contact someone on the list who works at Dryden. She'll provide the phone numbers and other information and, if you have any difficulties, help with the reservations. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Wayne Busse wrote: > In the August issue of "Private Pilot", an article on pages > 82-83, describes touring Edwards Air Force Base and NASA's > Dryden Flight Research Center. > > For those who may consider a visit, this is a very interesting > tour and quite an eye opener in many ways. > > The article gives very good directions from L.A. to Edwards, > (watch carefully for the I-5/Rte 14 interchange) and supplies > all the information needed to schedule and time your travel and tours. > > I visited Edwards AFB, and Dryden FRC last October, and really enjoyed > the trip. > It would recommend it as a "must see" if you are in the area. > Before you go, get the "Private Pilot" article. > > Wayne > -- > Wayne Busse > wings@sky.net > http://www.sky.net/~wings > - ----- End Included Message ----- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:05:35 -0400 From: "Szalay, John P (GEA, 022708)" Subject: B-model "down" According to a post by Mary, NASA's SR-71B, which made the fly-by's at the EAA flyin , is down at Milwaukee until friday. It broke a fuel line. She posted a short article on rec.aviation.military newsgroup. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 23:05:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: Noice Abatemet FORWARDED On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, George R. Kasica wrote: > On Wed, 6 Aug 1997 owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 06 Aug 1997 07:32:38 -0500 > > From: Wayne Busse > > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > > > Regarding the question of how an aircraft could be soundless? > > > > I'm not an engineer, but if you generate the same sound > > 180 degrees out of phase, it should cancel out. Yes, it will cancell out. In the passenger section of some Fokkers aircraft, there are microphone and speaker on the wall, so, they produce 180 degrees out of phase to eliminate noise from outside to inside. Currently, in the "white world", there is some studies at MIT labs to reduce the noise from engines. There is two ways: one is to inject air in the compressors of the engines and the other is to suck the air eliminating the boundary layers created by the compressors. Check out: http://web.mit.edu/aeroastro/www/labs/AERL/current/fan_noise/fan_noise.html May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net Nicklas' Law of Aircraft Identification: "If it's ugly, it's British; if it's weird, it's French; and if it's ugly and weird, it's Russian." Brian Nicklas ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 97 13:41:00 PDT From: WELLS Robert Subject: FW: The ultimate list extraction tool! G'day, Sorry to take up bandwidth here, but did we all get this? I assumed that the who command was not publicly available. Is this correct? 'Avahappy, Rob W. (-: P.S. Now to send this out to my other lists aswell. ---------- From: glenfinn To: Internet.Mail.Delivery Subject: The ultimate list extraction tool! 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You can get a list of all available digests by sending the one line command "index skunk-works-digest". If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica