skunk-works-digest Tuesday, August 19 1997 Volume 06 : Number 067b In this issue Re: FW: The ultimate list extraction tool! Re: Dryden Tours Re: Dryden Tours Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #67 [none] Air n Space The Semantics of Levitating Frogs Mail from NCSA X Mosaic 2.7b5 Re: Mail from NCSA X Mosaic 2.7b5 Onizuka Air Base Tours Space Tour? Re: Space Tour? Re: Space Tour? Re[2]: Space Tour? Re: Space Tour? Re: Space Tour? Recent articles and some designations Articles RE: Space tour RE: Space tour sr71 Plane History [none] Re: Plane History Re: Plane History ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 11:45:55 -0400 (EDT) From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: Re: FW: The ultimate list extraction tool! WELLS Robert wrote: >Sorry to take up bandwidth here, but did we all get this? I assumed that the >who command was not publicly available. >Is this correct? Rob: You are correct.....who, which, info, etc....all commands will only work for those ON the list. This includes skuk-works-digest as well. IF you start to receive alot of these types of messages please let me know and I cantry to get back to the sender to stop them, not much chance, but I can try. George R. Kasica Listowner ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 13:26:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Dryden Tours However, the AFFTC tour is only offered on Friday mornings, so the optimal method is to come on Friday and stop at the museum on your way in, go on the AFFTC tour at 1000, and then come over to Dryden to eat lunch, visit our little museum and gift shop, and go on the 1315 tour. Also note that there are no tours on Federal holidays. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 6 Aug 1997, Sid R. Phillips wrote: >Dryden Flight Research Center Tours are offered >free of charge Monday through Friday ... >See: http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/EAO/Tour/tour.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 11:14:11 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Dryden Tours >However, the AFFTC tour is only offered on Friday mornings, so the optimal >method is to come on Friday and stop at the museum on your way in, go on >the AFFTC tour at 1000, and then come over to Dryden to eat lunch, visit >our little museum and gift shop, and go on the 1315 tour. >Also note that there are no tours on Federal holidays. How come all the good theme amusement parks are always in California? Jump in the car kids, we're all going to "Drydenland". Yes, we'll get T-shirts and no we're not there yet. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 14:31:02 -0700 From: Lee Watters Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #67 Hi... All four major TV news nets carried this - pretty interesting footage. That was one airsick frog. >Found this reported in some smallish regional newspapers, but none of the >majors. Obviously only the tip of a huge anti-gravity research iceberg. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 22:50:52 -0500 From: christopher peterson Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:58:28 -0400 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Air n Space The new Air & Sapce has a great article on some Edwards history- a sort of X-1 photo album, as well as an Edwards "treasure map" compiled by none other than the (in)famous Peter Merlin- a frequent skunk-works contributor. Worth the $ :) Dan _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ DOS Computers manufactured by companies such as IBM, Compaq, Tandy, and millions of others are by far the most popular, with about 70 million machines in use wordwide. Macintosh fans, on the other hand, may note that cockroaches are far more numerous than humans, and that numbers alone do not denote a higher life form." (New York Times) ---------------------------------http://www.macconnect.com/~quellish _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Aug 1997 14:43:39 +1200 From: Brett Davidson Subject: The Semantics of Levitating Frogs A minor bit of pedantry here. The recently reported levitation of frogs by magnetic means has been described as antigravity. It is simply the use of magnetic repulsion at such a level as - under controlled and contained conditions - to suspend the amphibian. Magnetic levitation has been demonstrated for as long as people have had magnets to play with, and while this represents an interesting application of technique, it does not represent a fundamental breakthrough, as has been implied. If that's an antigravity machine, then so are rockets, helicopters, aeroplanes and balloons. --Brett ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 97 12:51:23 PDT From: John Rector Subject: Mail from NCSA X Mosaic 2.7b5 I haven't worked for the Skunk Works since 1968 and now I'm interested in catching up on the latest. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 16:32:22 -0400 From: GREG WEIGOLD Subject: Re: Mail from NCSA X Mosaic 2.7b5 You came to the right place! If the people on this list can't get you up-to-date, no one can! Except me.... I just sit back and read, fascinated! Welcome. Greg Columbia,SC gregweigold@pmsc.com John Rector wrote: >I haven't worked for the Skunk Works since 1968 and now I'm >interested in catching up on the latest. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 02:44:37 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: Onizuka Air Base Tours Here's another California facility that has tours. Onizuka Air Force Base (The Blue Cube) has tours for groups. You can join in an existing group tour. Call Sgt. Ken Goss at 408-752-4062, to find out the schedule. This is part of Air Force Space Command. A typical tour will get a slide show, a visit to two control rooms (We saw one of the shuttle crew on tv tonight) and a visit to the room where they track the satelites. Los of memorabilia of the space program is on display. They don't let you see anything secret, but there are interesting stickers on the equipment and it is a working and often secret facility. They make sure anything classified is put away for the tours. Tours are weekdays and evening. No weekend tours. Childrena re welcome but ther may be an age cutoff. The tour takes about 1.5 hours. Groups up to 100. Location is Lockheed way off of Mathilda, in Sunnyvale, CA. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 04:13:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Space Tour? Hey guys... I just found a famous guy (Rock & Roll start) whom claimed that he bought a ticket to fly to space for the year 2012 with the amount of $200,000. It is possible? As I know, Skunk Works is working on the X-33 and later to develop the Venture Star and I heard of some space tour relative with this space shuttles... May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net --------- "I've done . . . questionable things. Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for." Roy Batty (Blade Runner) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:33:17 -0400 From: Ron and Louise Crawford Subject: Re: Space Tour? I thought this was a cutting-edge group. Timothy Leary, Gene Roddenberry, and other space enthusiasts got tickets AND a flight for a lot less than that this year. Ron ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 07:33:27 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Re: Space Tour? If people were reserving flights to space, Ticketmaster would find a way to corner that market. Although, I heard someone was selling real estate on Mars after the Pathfinder landing. Wayne Wei-Jen Su wrote: >Hey guys... I just found a famous guy (Rock & Roll start) whom >claimed that he bought a ticket to fly to space for the year 2012 with the >amount of $200,000. >It is possible? As I know, Skunk Works is working on the X-33 and >later to develop the Venture Star and I heard of some space tour relative >with this space shuttles... -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:48:21 -0400 From: GREG WEIGOLD Subject: Re[2]: Space Tour? ....well there was one little catch..... they had to DIE FIRST!! Greg Columbia,SC Ron and Louise Crawford wrote: >I thought this was a cutting-edge group. Timothy Leary, Gene >Roddenberry, and other space enthusiasts got tickets AND a flight for a >lot less than that this year. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 10:40:17 -0500 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Re: Space Tour? If you don't have to worry about life-support or the return flight, this technology could get cheaper. Literally a UAV. Wayne >Ron and Louise Crawford wrote: >I thought this was a cutting-edge group. Timothy Leary, Gene >Roddenberry, and other space enthusiasts got tickets AND a flight for a -- Wayne Busse wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:18:17 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Space Tour? Ron Crawford wrote: >I thought this was a cutting-edge group. Timothy Leary, Gene >Roddenberry, and other space enthusiasts got tickets AND a flight for a >lot less than that this year. Actually, they got a freebie. Celestis Inc, based in Houston, TX, gave those 23 celebrities a free flight for promotional purposes. The next flight, scheduled for September on an OSC Taurus, will cost each of the passengers $4,800 -- and of course their life. Another catch is, that only 7 grams (0.25 oz) of your cremated ashes will be launched, and that the flight will be limited to 1.5 to 10 years, before those few remaining molecules of you will burn-up in the upper atmosphere on re-entry. I would consider that a nice gag for people who want to waste their money (after they can't spend it otherwise anyway anymore). On the other hand, if a Senator, a Prince and even a journalist can afford to be passengers, there shouldn't be any reason why anyone with the necessary amount of change (or backing) should be able to afford a 'commercial' flight. If they will actually get into orbit, and when, is another question, though. -- Andreas --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:19:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Recent articles and some designations Recent magazine articles, selected totally subjective by me, relating in one way or another to the Skunk Works or topics which have been mentioned here, at one time or another: * Wings of Fame (WoF), Vol.7 -- the historic counterpart to World Air Power Journal (WAPJ). Articles sorted by Skunk Works relevance/interest: - Sukhoi T-4, the Soviet counterpart to the XB-70 Valkyrie (Larry will be interested in this one). - McDonnell XF-85 Goblin - 509th Bomb Group, focusing on WWII nuclear missions - Martin Mariner, Mars and Marlin, variant briefing - English Electric Lightning - Israel Air Force 1950-1959 - Eastern Front Schlachtflieger * AirForces Monthly (AFM), No.113, August 1997: - celebrating the 25th anniversary of the F-15 Eagle with 3 articles, one of which, 'Eagle on test', is about NASA and USAF test aircraft, like: F-15A HIDEC (NASA 835), F-15B (NASA 836) and F-15B ACTIVE (NASA 837), and some of the programs those aircraft were used for, like: HIDEC (Highly Integrated Digital Electronic Control), ADECS (Advanced Digital Engine Control System), SRFCS (Self-Repairing Flight Control System), PSC (Performance Seeking Control), PCA (Propulsion Controlled Aircraft), and ACTIVE (Advanced Control Technology for Integrated Vehicles) * Air International (AI) Vol.53, No.1 (July 1997) and No.2 (August 1997): - 2 part article about current UAVs, mentioning the new designations of the "Tier" UAVs: - RQ-1A GA-ASI Predator (Tier 2) - RQ-2A ??? (I would have guessed Global Hawk -- might be Tier 1, though) - RQ-3A LMSW DarkStar (Tier 3-) - RQ-4A TRA Global Hawk (Tier 2+) That introduces another (new) 'Basic Mission symbol' to the joint Model Designation System for military aerospace vehicles, after the 'L' for 'Laser' was introduced with the YAL-1A. The 'Q' for 'Unmanned Aircraft' or 'UAVs' existed in the USAF designation system from 1948 to 1962 as 'Aerial Target', covering designs like the Q-2 Firebee (redesignated to BQM-34 in 1962), Q-5 (to AQM-60) and Q-12 (to AQM-37), as well as the former PQ-8 and PQ-14, which were in 1948 redesignated Q-8 and Q-14 respectively, but were not longer in service in 1962. The 'Q' symbol existed, and still exists, as 'Modified Mission symbol' for 'Drone' in the current system, but is only applicable to modified, originally manned aircraft, like the QF-4G or QF-86F, even though the QH-50 was never intended to be manned. Previous guided, unmanned vehicles were usually designated in the xxM-n 'Missile' series, and the introduction of the 'Q-n' series, seems to me mainly 'politically' motivated. - in the August issue is also an article about real existing Boscombe Down research aircraft :) - and one about the V-22 Osprey * Aviation Week & Space Technology (AW&ST), several issues: - Vol.146, No.26, June 23, 1997: + BAe Joins Lockheed Martin In Joint Strike Fighter Bid + Thrust-Vectoring Nozzle Work Underway at ITP + HISAR Flexible Recon System - Vol.146, No.27, June 30, 1997: + NASA, Industry Hit Snags on X-33 + Follow-on B-2 Flight Testing Planned - Vol.147, No.1, July 07, 1997: + JSF Manufacturing Combed for 25% Cut + F-22 Nose Affixed To 757 for Flight Test - Vol.147, No.2, July 14, 1997: + series of 6 articles about Cruise Missile Defense - Vol.147, No.4, July 28, 1997: + Lockheed Martin Reconstructs TAS Unit as 'Fighter Enterprise' - Vol.147, No.5, August 3, 1997: + USAF Set to Fly 'Mini-Spaceplane' -- which might have more in common with the operations described in PM's 'New Area 51' article than the X-33, as the author is claiming + Blended Wing-Body Model Begins Flights + NASA's first X-38 captive flight + great series of 6 RC-135S 'Cobra Ball' articles * Flight International (FI), several issues: - Vol.151, No.4579, 25 June - 1 July 1997: + F-22 first flight delayed by engine FOD + BAe joins Lockheed Martin's JSF team + DASA leads push for European fighter demonstrator + EJ200 thrust-vector nozzle nears test + Lockheed Martin first to finish JSF design review + COBRA program cures F-22 and JSF composites together + Lockheed Martin readies VISTA/F-16 for thrust vectoring + The big picture -- article about Hughes HISAR sensor suit - Vol.152, No.4581, 2 - 8 July 1997: + Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman to fly JSF avionics + F-22 757 testbed arrives at Seattle + USN considers future UCAV... + ... as Northrop Grumman reveals stealth design - Vol.152, No.4582, 9 - 15 July 1997: + Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman agree to join forces + NASA finalises X-33 engine - Vol.152, No.4583, 16 - 22 July 1997: + NASA/MDC complete initial X-36 testing - Vol.152, No.4584, 23 - 29 July 1997: + Tupolev prepares Tu-144LL for next round of flight testing + Germany begins hypersonic attack missile program + NASA/MDC X-36 prepared for high-agility flight tests - Vol.152, No.4585, 30 July - 5 August 1997: + Protest delays NASA Bantam contracts + Paintless-aircraft testing gathers pace + Special Observer -- NASA's SOFIA Boeing 747SP -- Andreas --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/ --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 1997 16:58:11 -0400 From: Jason Koval Subject: Articles What a nice summary of articles and sources! Thanks alot! Is Volume 7 of WoF out yet? I haven't gotten mine yet (you MUST have connections)! JASON KOVAL jck@scd.etn.com Response to post by : >Recent magazine articles, selected totally subjective by me, relating in >one way or another to the Skunk Works or topics which have been mentioned >here, at one time or another: >* Wings of Fame (WoF), Vol.7 -- the historic counterpart to World Air Power > Journal (WAPJ). Articles sorted by Skunk Works relevance/interest: etc. etc. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Aug 97 22:47:22 EDT From: JOHN SZALAY Subject: RE: Space tour >If people were reserving flights to space, Ticketmaster >would find a way to corner that market. >Although, I heard someone was selling real estate on Mars >after the Pathfinder landing. >Wayne >>Wei-Jen Su wrote: >>Hey guys... I just found a famous guy (Rock & Roll start) whom >>claimed that he bought a ticket to fly to space for the year 2012 with the >>amount of $200,000. >>It is possible? As I know, Skunk Works is working on the X-33 and >>later to develop the Venture Star and I heard of some space tour relative >>with this space shuttles... Yep and I guess you are too young to remember that Pan-Am took reservations for future moon flights during the Apollo flight series. And we all know where Pan-Am is to-day and what happened to the moon flights AND during the same time there was a company selling land on the moon, even if it was only inch square sections. And who was it several years ago that tried to book a flight with the Russians up to Mir and back ? IIRC it was John Denver right ? And as far as TBTG and the acid head, TLE's are available to track their passage over the southern parts of the US. And true to form, they are flying against the rest (retrograde orbit). East to West. :) CELESTIS 1 24780U 97018B 97217.24057289 .00001379 00000-0 37400-4 0 347 2 24780 150.9757 88.2754 0019702 338.5079 21.4708 14.99623914 15898 John Szalay jpszalay@tacl.dnet.ge.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 08:47:41 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: RE: Space tour John wrote: >And who was it several years ago that tried to book a flight with the >Russians up to Mir and back ? IIRC it was John Denver right ? Well, John Denver has never been "right", but you are correct. He campaigned with NASA for several years to get on a shuttle flight, but they "couldn't work him into the schedule". So he approached the Russians, but I've not heard lately if they're still talking to him. Since we're this far off topic, I have a question: What is the record for the number of humans in space at one time? Just last week there were 11 up there, 3 on Mir, 2 Russians on their way to Mir, and six aboard the shuttle. Is this near a record? Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 20:44:02 +0800 From: robert payne Subject: sr71 I am trying to locate the sr71 info page that used to be at "Primenet" all i am getting is a "page unavailable or does not exist" message. any help would be much appreciated. thanks robert payne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:33:22 -0400 From: Mark Pepin Subject: Plane History Hi All Our community just received a new addition to our local museum. It is a C-130 (A-Model?) Tail Code: 60528 The Museum is the "National Cryptologic Museum" located in Ft. Meade, MD next to the National Security Agency. It flew into Tipton Air Field which has been closed for about two years and about to be turned over to the community. The wings were removed and it was towed to the museum approximately 2 miles away. It was stated that this was the type of plane used by NSA in the 60's for communication interceptions. While this was not the actual plane used it is supposed to be the same model. It is a beautiful aircraft. (Shiny aluminum with a red tail.) I'm trying to get a picture of it. If anyone would like it for their site let me know & I'll e-mail it once I get it scanned. Is there someone out there that might be able to give us a history of this particular plane? Thanks, Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 13:07:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald H Portch Subject: [none] I apologize for that. The new email program and I haven't been properly introduced, obviously. It sent that to my entire address list instead of just a couple I had tried to select. I am now going to stand in the corner. Don ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 12:27:40 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: Plane History >Our community just received a new addition to our local museum. >It is a C-130 (A-Model?) Tail Code: 60528 >Is there someone out there that might be able to give us a history of >this particular plane? ===== C-130A, Lockheed Model 182-1A, Constructors number 3136, USAF Serial Number 56-0528; delivered to USAF October 1957; converted to C-130A-II, was assigned to the 7406 CSS; was shot down by Soviet fighters 50 km north of Yerevan, Armenia 2 Sept 1958. Source: Lockheed Hercules Production List, 15th Edition, by Lars Olausson. I suggest someone for some reason painted a bogus tail number on your aircraft. Look in the cockpit for the Lockheed Construction Number, it should be on an overhead panel above the flight engineer's seat. If the C/N really is 3136, then this book I have is wrong, but I doubt that very much. Tom Robison tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Hughes Defense Communications, Fort Wayne, IN ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 14:16:00 -0400 (EDT) From: "Joseph F. Donoghue" Subject: Re: Plane History Yes, the tail number is bogus. The aircraft is presented in the markings worn by the original RC-130 when it was shot down over Soviet Armenia on Sep 2, 1958 with the loss of the entire crew of 6 USAFE and 11 USAF Security Service Communications Intelligence crew members. The aircraft at Ft Meade is a memorial to this cold war crew. Dedication is scheduled for Sep 2, 1997. More info and a photo of the original(?) aircraft can be found on the 55th Strat Recon Wing's site at this specific page: http://www.ns.net/~dgrif/55_m9705.html#05200817 or look around at http://www.ns.net/~dgrif/55srw.html in case I typoed the long address. Joe Donoghue USAFSS 1959-1962 ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #67b *********************************