skunk-works-digest Thursday, August 21 1997 Volume 06 : Number 069 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** re: Beale AFB, CA airshow SR-17! I knew it all along! :) re: Beale AFB, CA airshow re: SR-17! I knew it all along! :) OT: Request for Photo re: Sonic booms Ft. Meade RC-130 Re: OT: Request for Photo re: Sonic booms Re: OT: Request for Photo Re: OT: Request for Photo No Wash-and-Go for Stealth... Warning Will Robinson !: OT for SW Re: No Wash-and-Go for Stealth... Re: OT: Request for Photo Re[2]: OT: Request for Photo Articles (Flight Journal 2nd best part... Re: 2nd best part... OK, No more frogs! *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 15:25:19 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: re: Beale AFB, CA airshow I can confirm that the SR-17 will be at the show, but I don't know about the Mach 3 pass the day of the show. They may do that on the arrival or depature day. Art Hanley Want an example of a False assumption? Then assume that the above Reflects my employers' views ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:39:11 -0700 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: SR-17! I knew it all along! :) >I can confirm that the SR-17 will be at the show, EGADS! Of coarse! It's not A-17, but SR-17! :) Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 19:46:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: re: Beale AFB, CA airshow Mach 3 passes are pretty boring unless you've never heard a sonic boom in your life. They have to fly at such a high altitude that the plane isn't visible. Our crews always dump a little fuel as they go overhead so that there's something to see. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > I can confirm that the SR-17 will be at the show, but I don't know about the > Mach 3 pass the day of the show. They may do that on the arrival or depature > day. > > Art Hanley > > Want an example of a > False assumption? > > Then assume that the above > Reflects my employers' views > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 16:59:01 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: re: SR-17! I knew it all along! :) Larry, You mean you don't remember the old SR-17 biplane? That's why the Mach 3 pass is unconfirmed (darn things always seemed to collapse around 250 mph). Gosh! What other plane could you possibly think I meant?! Art Hanley Who Knows what Evil Lurks in the Heart of this Message? Not my employers, they had nothing to do with this. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:30:45 -0600 From: Joy Richards Subject: OT: Request for Photo Apologies in advance for the off-topic nature of this post... but given that there are discussions about levitating frogs and tours of Edwards, I'll take the chance and ask. I work at the Amarillo, TX, VAMC and in a conversation with the Museum Curator, discovered that he's been looking for a photo of an F-18 for a young boy who is terminally ill. If there is anyone on this list with an 8x10 photo or lithograph of this bird, in any livery and a willingness to donate it, I'd very much appreciate it if you would contact me offlist for a mailing address. Thank you very much, Laurel Richards |------------------------------------------------------------------|||| |Laurel Joy Richards "Courage is the price that Life ||| |tasha@uncle.org exacts for granting peace," || | -- Amelia Earhart | |---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:41:56 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: re: Sonic booms I think a lot of people haven't heard a sonic boom. When I was a little kid they were fairly common. But I haven't heard one in years. Didn't the air force clamp down on sonic booms a few years ago? JZ >Mach 3 passes are pretty boring unless you've never heard a sonic boom in >your life. They have to fly at such a high altitude that the plane isn't >visible. Our crews always dump a little fuel as they go overhead so that >there's something to see. > >Regards, >Mary > >Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com >URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html >Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard >Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... > >On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 ahanley@usace.mil wrote: > >> I can confirm that the SR-17 will be at the show, but I don't know about >>the >> Mach 3 pass the day of the show. They may do that on the arrival or >>depature >> day. >> >> Art Hanley >> >> Want an example of a >> False assumption? >> >> Then assume that the above >> Reflects my employers' views >> ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 23:22:16 +0000 From: Jim Rotramel Subject: Ft. Meade RC-130 Chris Pocock and I got on board the C-130A at Ft. Meade about three weeks ago. The previous post about it depicting the 2 Sep 58 RC-130A shootdown of aircraft 56-0528 over Soviet Armenia (also the first ever C-130 loss, according to Chris) was correct. BTW, this was the same aircraft caught in the gunsight of a Soviet MiG-17 featured in the recent Discovery(?) special on aerial spying of the Soviet Union. For the memorial, E-Systems fixed up the exterior of C-130A 57-0453 (real tail number). When finished, it will feature the fake 'fuel tanks' and three bladed props of the original, as well. Cheers, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:03:17 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: OT: Request for Photo >If there is anyone on this list with an 8x10 photo or lithograph of this >bird, in any livery and a willingness to donate it, I'd very much >appreciate it if you would contact me offlist for a mailing address. > =============================================================== why not contact the Blue Angels public affairs office for a real nice photo of the blue angels? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 21:36:24 -0700 From: patrick Subject: re: Sonic booms At 08:41 PM 8/20/97 -0500, you wrote: >I think a lot of people haven't heard a sonic boom. When I was a little >kid they were fairly common. But I haven't heard one in years. Didn't the >air force clamp down on sonic booms a few years ago? >JZ ===================================================================== I believe sonic booms are required to be scheduled in advance. They are definitely required to be scheduled at White Sands Missile Range which is the next best thing to a "free fire zone". Of course the accidental ones create reports also! patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:44:54 From: David Subject: Re: OT: Request for Photo Laurel I have four colour 8x10s of NASA Dryden's F-18 HARV that the young boy can have. Just send me the mailing address and give him my very best. If he's into any other type of a/c, I'll see what I have in my files. Just don't blame me for the levitating frog thread..I'll take the flak for the quiet triangles :) Best D >Apologies in advance for the off-topic nature of this post... but given >that there are discussions about levitating frogs and tours of Edwards, >I'll take the chance and ask. > >I work at the Amarillo, TX, VAMC and in a conversation with the Museum >Curator, discovered that he's been looking for a photo of an F-18 for a >young boy who is terminally ill. > >If there is anyone on this list with an 8x10 photo or lithograph of this >bird, in any livery and a willingness to donate it, I'd very much >appreciate it if you would contact me offlist for a mailing address. > >Thank you very much, >Laurel Richards > >|------------------------------------------------------------------|||| >|Laurel Joy Richards "Courage is the price that Life ||| >|tasha@uncle.org exacts for granting peace," || >| -- Amelia Earhart | >|---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 05:13:54 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: OT: Request for Photo I think this is really a skunk-works item. If you can levitate a frog by altering the orbits of its atoms, you ought to be able to levitate anything. Isn't this a physics issue? If it works won't there be a black project on it? >Just don't blame me for the levitating frog thread.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 04:27:52 -0700 From: phraesius@rfhsm.ac.uk (gilbert blythe) Subject: No Wash-and-Go for Stealth... >From the Electronic Telegraph, - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= - -- THE stealth bomber, the most expensive aircraft ever made and the pride of the US Air Force, has a fatal flaw - its radar-foiling paint washes off in the rain. A report from the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, has discovered that the radar-absorbing coating on the B-2 aircraft quickly degrades and loses its "invisibility" if exposed to rain, heat or humidity. To the embarrassment of its makers Northrop Grumman, the report warns that portable custom- built air-conditioned hangars will be needed if US Air Force chooses to send the aircraft on overseas operations. The radar-invisible bat-wing bomber has been shrouded in controversy since the Pentagon disclosed that each B-2 has cost more than =A31.5 billion, or five times its weight in gold. Now, the audit office warns, that cost will be driven up further by the need for the hangars to keep the aircraft cool and dry. After each flight, the aircraft's plastic and metal composite coating needs to be repaired, and the material left to "cure" in a cool, dry environment, according to a report in today's New Scientist. To make matters worse, the GAO report says that simply leaving the aircraft outside in the heat and rain damages its coating. Northrop Grumman had developed a unique wheat starch stripper to remove the coating. But the company had calculated that the plane would need to be stripped and repainted only four times in its lifetime. The Pentagon admitted that sending the aircraft abroad could pose some operational problems, but said the report would not change its plans for the 20 B-2 bombers built so= far. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:37:09 From: David Subject: Warning Will Robinson !: OT for SW >I think this is really a skunk-works item. If you can levitate a frog by >altering the orbits of its atoms, you ought to be able to levitate >anything. Isn't this a physics issue? If it works won't there be a black >project on it? Hmm...I thought I'd replied to Laurel off list. I certainly clicked on 'author only reply.' Oh well.. We've come across this type of thread from time to time, and they usually go down like a lead balloon. Most members aren't too keen to talk about anything that isn't mainstream aviation..with the alleged Aurora and TR3a etc. as notable exceptions to that rule. My tentative request about how these silent(ish) black triangles operate (they are most certainly classified projects) has genrated a good deal of private mail, but no list discussion, which is fine for me :) My last word on the subject of levitation comes from a de-classified document from the London UK based Gravity Research Group published in the early 50s. In relation to electrogravitic a/c propulsion it says: '.....Lawrence Bell has said he is convinced that practical hardware will emerge from current programs. Grover Leoning is certain that what he referred to as an electro-magnetic contra-gravity mechanism will be developed for practical use. Convair is extensively committed to the work with several rigs. Lear Inc., autopilot and electronic engineers have a division of the company working on gravity research and so also has the Sperry division of Sperry-Rand. This list embraces most of the U.S. aircraft industry. The remainder, Curtiss-Wright, Lockheed, Boeing and ^^^^^^^^ North American have not yet declared themselves, but all these four are known to be in various stages of study with and without rigs. ' - -END QUOTE- I should be able to get away with this as it mentions Lockheed ! Now I'm confused as to whether this is going to you direct as intended or the group. It's about time to change my software. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 15:02:12 From: David Subject: Re: No Wash-and-Go for Stealth... >THE stealth bomber, the most expensive aircraft ever made and the pride of >the US Air Force, has a >fatal flaw - its radar-foiling paint washes off in the rain. A report from >the General Accounting Office, >the investigative arm of Congress, has discovered that the radar-absorbing >coating on the B-2 >aircraft quickly degrades and loses its "invisibility" if exposed to rain, >heat or humidity. > To the embarrassment of its makers Northrop Grumman, the report warns that >portable custom- >built air-conditioned hangars will be needed if US Air Force chooses to send >the aircraft on overseas operations. As it's not clear how the downgraded coating problem increases RCS, it's impossible to say if the B-2 is seriously compromised by these findings. I always had the impression that overall shape and precision of construction / fit were the main factors in achieving LO, and that coatings were the icing on the cake. I suspect that even with this problem the B-2 remains a formidable 'silver bullet' in the USAF's inventory. Imagine how much damage a few of these could inflict on an hapless enemy, even flying from their home base in MA ? I imagine that any overseas deployment would be fraught with problems anyway. The PR value of destroying a B-2 on the ground would be hard for an enemy to resist. With its range, the B-2 dosen't need to be based overseas. Sounds like a lot of fuss over very little. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 05:12:12 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: OT: Request for Photo >I think this is really a skunk-works item. If you can levitate a frog by >altering the orbits of its atoms, you ought to be able to levitate >anything. Isn't this a physics issue? If it works won't there be a black >project on it? ======================================================= I think the Skunkworks is into aircraft design, not alchemy. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 09:12:03 GMT From: "Terry Colvin" Subject: Re[2]: OT: Request for Photo Hi All, The e-mail writer's address is now replaced by the list address. Would everyone please add their name and e-mail address to the message text? Terry Terry W. Colvin < colvint@fhu.disa.mil > "No editor likes the way a story tastes unless he pees in it first." -- Mark Twain ____________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: OT: Request for Photo Author: skunk-works@netwrx1.com at smtp-fhu Date: 8/21/97 3:14 AM I think this is really a skunk-works item. If you can levitate a frog by altering the orbits of its atoms, you ought to be able to levitate anything. Isn't this a physics issue? If it works won't there be a black project on it? >Just don't blame me for the levitating frog thread.. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 11:09:47 EST From: Sam Subject: Articles (Flight Journal A publication I haven't seen mentioned here is Flight Journal. I sub'd to this pub last year at OSH, and have been favorably impressed with their production quality and factual articles. For the sum of 19.95 $US for 6 issues one can enjoy great photography and authors who were actually there. In the Oct 97 issue a story entitled "Blowing A Panther's Nose" deals with the test flying of the F9F-2 and the buildup of gun gasses that would destroy the nose of the A/C. The author is Corky Meyer. In the same issue their Gallery section is on the U-2. Their Up Close column in on Seattle's Museum of Flight, p58 photo of M/D-21 I have no interest in this publication over and above that of a satisfied reader....... Another reference I find useful (F-103, 107, 108,,, ect) Gunston, B., 1981, Fighters of the Fifties, Specialty Press Publishers & Wholesalers Inc, ISBN 0-933424-32-9 Sam ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 10:56:27 -0700 From: patrick wiggins Subject: 2nd best part... Should anyone on this list ever get a chance to visit Rachel, Nevada (as my new bride and I did on Tuesday) I strongly suggest you stop by the A'Le'Inn. Located just to the north of the "infamous Area 51", it’s a fun place, to be sure, complete with employees and residents from the local area who’ll delight in talking your ears off about the area. Much fun. BTW, during our trek westbound across the desert to get to Rachel we noticed an aircraft way off in the distance that was flying very low and very fast. Just as I was about to stop and get a better look with the binoculars there was an incredible roar, the truck rocked back and forth and dust was flying everywhere! I’m not going to mention the type of aircraft that buzzed us since one never knows if perhaps that pilot’s boss might be reading this (something about FARs). But I do hope word gets back to the pilot that we wished he'd done it again. It was great! :-) In fact, it was the second best part of the honeymoon. ;-) Cheers! Patrick - -- Patrick Wiggins, Hansen Planetarium, SLC, UT, USA email: w@apeleon.net WWW: web.state.ut.us/bbs/space snail mail: 15 S. State St., SLC, UT 84111-1590 voice: 801.531-4952 fax: 801.531-4948 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 12:20:54 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: 2nd best part... >Located just to the north of the "infamous Area 51", it’s a fun place, >to be sure, complete with employees and residents from the local area >who’ll delight in talking your ears off about the area. Much fun. > >BTW, during our trek westbound across the desert to get to Rachel we >noticed an aircraft way off in the distance that was flying very low and >very fast. ===================================================================== Aircraft? It was probably just Bob Lazar in a reverse engineered machine buzzing up the Alien Hiway to see if there was any mail at the Black Mailbox for his S-4 unit at Papoose Lake. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:22:39 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: OK, No more frogs! >>I think this is really a skunk-works item. If you can levitate a frog by >>altering the orbits of its atoms, you ought to be able to levitate >>anything. Isn't this a physics issue? If it works won't there be a black >>project on it? >======================================================= >I think the Skunkworks is into aircraft design, not alchemy. > >patrick cullumber >patrick@e-z.net OK no more frogs, I'll stick to airplanes James ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #69 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "skunk-works-digest-request@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. 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