skunk-works-digest Thursday, October 23 1997 Volume 06 : Number 083 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: My SR-7 1 venting message Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... SR-71 Demise Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... Re: Hypersonics Re: Hypersonics - McDD Global Reach design study and Hyper-X RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... Brassey's Air Power books Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... Skunk Works Web Ring HALO *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 97 05:45:37 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: My SR-7 1 venting message Just in case there's anyone out there who may read the wrong thing into my previous message, Nothing in there should be taken as any criticism of Chuck Yeager, a great American and to me one of the three finest pilots living in the US today (the other two being Bob Hoover and CDR [ret.] Robert Stumpf) Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 07:04:14 GMT From: abeaumont@canterbury.kent.sch.uk (Adrian Beaumont) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 David wrote:- >It seems we..or certainly I have overlooked the fact that Hal Needham broke >the sound barrier with his rocket powered car, aptly named 'Budweiser >Rocket' in December 1972 at EAFB, but failed to make the second run. > >So it looks like the Americans beat us Brits to it in the air and on >land. At least the UK has the first official supersonic world land speed >record. Good work > Is it not true that on that occasion the speed of the Budweiser Rocket was measured with a radar system that was aimed by means of an operator following a picture on a TV screen, and even worse, the system was neither accurate nor was it calibrated or tested? (Source: Guiness Book of Records). The claim of an accuracy in measurement of 1 part in 750,000 is ludicrous. Under such circumstances an accuracy of 1 part in 10 or maybe 20 is all that any scientist would be willing to pin his/her academic reputation on. Surely if the driver really believed that the car could do it, he would have attempted a run with the proper approved accurate measuring equipment! Or did he know what most of us suspect........ Adrian Beaumont Canterbury UK ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 11:40:22 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 Adrian Beaumont writes: >David wrote:- > >>It seems we..or certainly I have overlooked the fact that Hal Needham broke >>the sound barrier with his rocket powered car, aptly named 'Budweiser >>Rocket' in December 1972 at EAFB, but failed to make the second run. >Is it not true that on that occasion the speed of the Budweiser Rocket was >measured with a radar system that was aimed by means of an operator >following a picture on a TV screen, and even worse, the system was neither >accurate nor was it calibrated or tested? (Source: Guiness Book of >Records). The claim of an accuracy in measurement of 1 part in 750,000 is >ludicrous. Under such circumstances an accuracy of 1 part in 10 or maybe >20 is all that any scientist would be willing to pin his/her academic >reputation on. Surely if the driver really believed that the car could do >it, he would have attempted a run with the proper approved accurate >measuring equipment! Or did he know what most of us suspect........ Thanks for the detailed background. Here's a snip from the letter that made me think that the car had exceeded Mach 1: ....SNIP ...Having been involved in supersonic research since the days of the XS -1 rocket plane, which I flew on the first supersonic flight on October 14, 1947, there is no doubt in my mind that the rocket car exceeded the speed of sound on its run on December 17, 1979. (Signature of Charles E. Yeager) Charles E. Yeager Brigadeer General USAF, Retired ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Corey Lawson Subject: RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... >Date: Wed, 15 Oct 97 14:46:48 EDT >From: "Jay Waller" >Subject: Re: funding cuts >Anyone know if Bill Gates is a high speed nut? Maybe now that his >house is being finished he'll want another personal project. >Jay No, his only proclivity to speed seems to be on acquiring Bellevue speeding tickets in his Lexus, getting them waived by the courts, and getting the cop who wrote the ticket fired. OK, the last part is speculation on my part, but a Bellevue cop WAS fired after writing The Bill a significant ticket, and buzzing him for not having his proof of insurance, I think, 3 or 4 years ago. If you wanted, you could probably call the Journal-American there to get the details. The usual details of the cop getting fired because he had all sorts of problems, acted improperly, etc. Larry Ellison (Oracle's big head), however... He's got an Italian figher-trainer jet... If someone could convince him that he could get the DoD to put Oracle DBs and their Java (he could get Sun's big head onboard, too!) netPCs to replace all the colors of computers, OSs and DBMSs in all the military hardware, I'm sure he'd foot the bill for a prototype or two... - --------------- Corey Lawson clawson@ucsd.edu - --------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 10:40:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "David W. Thompson - Employee Communications" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #82 Adrian wrote:- > Is it not true that on that occasion the speed of the Budweiser Rocket was > measured with a radar system that was aimed by means of an operator > following a picture on a TV screen, and even worse, the system was neither > accurate nor was it calibrated or tested? (Source: Guiness Book of > Records). The claim of an accuracy in measurement of 1 part in 750,000 is > ludicrous. Under such circumstances an accuracy of 1 part in 10 or maybe > 20 is all that any scientist would be willing to pin his/her academic > reputation on. Surely if the driver really believed that the car could do > it, he would have attempted a run with the proper approved accurate > measuring equipment! Or did he know what most of us suspect........ > > Adrian Beaumont > Canterbury UK Actually, if memory serves me right, the reason the Budweiser Rocket was not able to officially get the record was because "the rules" did not allow rocket-powered cars at that time... Dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 12:04:59 -0700 From: patrick Subject: RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... Why do we all trash Bill Gates? He is the embodiment of the American dream. He came from nowhere and amassed a fortune. He bought a small operating system for a few pennies and convinced IBM they couldn't live without it. I suspect he is a target because he made so much, so fast. But nothing in the fine print puts a limit there. He just did it more efficiently than anyone dreamed of. There are three kinds of people in this world. Those that make things happen, those that stand back and watch things happen and finally those that ask "What happened?" patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 18:59:34 +0000 From: Jim Rotramel Subject: SR-71 Demise Don't forget, the Air Force has NEVER made a mistake. Originally retiring the SR prior to the Gulf War wasn't a mistake. Congress reviving the program was merely an aberration that had to be fought because not all the i's were dotted and t's crossed properly (poor Congress, they can't even govern properly without help from the Air Force). Finally, an opportunity to end this madness presented itself in the form of the line item veto. Now we can all feel better about ourselves, the cosmos has been restored to its natural balance, and the infallibility of United States Air Force leadership has been reaffirmed. God bless the United States Air Force!! In the final analysis, it's just as well Bill line-itemed the SR. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that the Air Force would have ever swallowed its pride and actually USED the SR, even if it costs lives not to. Never forget, the leadership of the Air Force is NEVER, EVER wrong. If you don't believe me, just ask them. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 09:32:18 -0700 From: Speed Racer 71 Subject: Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... > Anyone know if Bill Gates is a high speed nut? Maybe now that his > house is being finished he'll want another personal project. I thought I remembered HRH Bill Gates as one of the few people who brought (non-US-certified) Porsche 959s (?) into the country, then got 'busted' for driving it on public roads... Not that it's any claim to fame (it's not) but Gates married a local girl (local to the DFW area, that is) a couple of years ago. Her father has worked with my father at the same company for the past, oh, 30 years... Don't know if this tells you anything but the guy didn't suddenly up and retire when his daughter married the richest man in the world... Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 14:45:59 -0700 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hypersonics Brett Davidson replies: >AvWeek has a cover story on developing hypersonic technology - mainly for >use in missiles. It can be accessed at their site at http://www.awgnet.com/ Thanks Brett for the heads up! I love the following: In the interview of Chuck Yeager: AW&ST: But the bottom line is, you don't have to go faster? Yeager: Right. We can go fast enough now. In the same issue, the statements of Scott Crossfield: "In the 19th century there was a school of thought that we should close the patent office because it was unnecessary--there wasn't anything left to invent. The latter-day version of that philosophy is that we have no requirement or value in more speed for aerodynamic aircraft. Utter nonsense!" You tell-em Scotty! Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 15:07:35 -0700 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: Hypersonics - McDD Global Reach design study and Hyper-X I'm surprised nobody commented on the following in the same AW&ST issue: >The Hyper-X lifting body shape is a 6% scale version of the Langley concept for a >200-ft.-long "Global Reach" Mach 10 cruise aircraft. Did you all understand that? > It would fly to a 8,500-naut. >mi. radius from the U.S. in 90 min. Global Reach started at the Wright Laboratory >in the early 1990s, but the service has since become more interested in hypersonic >missiles, and Langley took up the study in January 1995, after the demise of NASP. >The Boeing Phantom Works (then McDonnell Douglas) and Pratt and Whitney won small >contracts in August 1995. > >The concept has two engine types--a hydrocarbon (JP-7 - really! - and it used >mid-air refuelling as well for the JP-7) turbo-ramjet for takeoff to Mach 4.5, >switching to a hydrogen ramjet/scramjet to accelerate to and cruise at Mach 10. >"Global Reach tends to require a robust thermal protection system >due to the long heat soak," said George F. Orton, the weapons system concept >development and hypersonics program manager at the Phantom Works. > >The aircraft would have a takeoff weight of about 500,000 lb. It would be aerially >refueled with hydrocarbon fuel after the mission, and return subsonically. The study >is still underway at a low level. The above is confirmation of something I posted here some time ago about this study. I have some interesting line drawings of this vehicle from one of the study writeups. And there's supposed to be a pretty neat subscale mockup of the manned vehicle at McDD. Who has a scanner? Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 20:02:11 +0000 From: "Ryan Kirk" Subject: RE: Bill Gates & High speeds... > Why do we all trash Bill Gates? I can think of a few reasons. A) His OS sucks: I'm no mac-lover by any definition, but all Bill does is copy the OS Apple had out three years ago. Except Bill's version is all buggy. B) He then proceeds to shove this OS down our throats. C) He makes money for being this kind of jerk. (so yes, you were partly right.) True, Bill Gates makes things happen. But his words are remarkably similar to Chuck Yeager's: he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. IBM's OS/2 was much better than Windows when it came out: except for the fact that it required 8MB to run, which was insane back then. So while in the meantime that IBM was back at the drawing board, Bill came out with an OS that only used 4MB -- and people could go for that. But ever since then, things have been downhill. Downhill in a sense: Although Windows has much more capability now than it did 8 years ago, it is nowhere close to its potential, whereas 8 years ago, it was pushing the envelope. So relatively speaking, the position is worse. All we have to do is look at what they're doing with the B operating system. Quite off topic, sorry... --Ryan Kirk ryan_skunk@geocities.com - -------------------------------- Since I am not employed I can say whatever I want and not worry about these stupid clauses. - -------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 23:37:48 -0400 (EDT) From: MELUMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... AMEN ! - except for the crack about Chuck Yeager. . . meluman ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 05:42:15 -0500 (CDT) From: jaz5@ix.netcom.com Subject: Brassey's Air Power books I found several different volumnes from Brassey's Airpower series at a used book store tonight and wondered if they are still published. The copyright date was 1989. One of the books (Strategic Defensive Air Operations) discusses radar cross section, stealth design, RAM materials etc. and is quite interesting, although I suppose a bit dated. These books seem to cover all aspects of design, operation etc. JZ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:47:31 +0000 From: "Ryan Kirk" Subject: Re: Bill Gates & High speeds... > AMEN ! - except for the crack about Chuck Yeager. . . > > meluman That wasn't a crack. That's really what he said. Ryan ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 16:47:31 +0000 From: "Ryan Kirk" Subject: Skunk Works Web Ring Attention: to any web sites that discuss the Skunk Works: There is now a web ring called the Skunk Works Web Ring. It has only four sites right now so any additions would be appreciated. The home page for it: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/3993/swring_home.html Anything about the F-80, F-104, T-33, or C-130 would especially be welcome since these are some of the less popular aircraft. However anything -- that has good content -- about the SR, 117, U-2, F-22, Aurora, or X-33 is also great. -- Ryan Kirk ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 09:46:00 +0000 From: 11506@aquinas.ac.uk Subject: HALO I'm new to this list, so forgive me if you've heard this before: In Britain this year, there has been much speculation about sightings of a new triangular aircraft. It's small, and so cannot be Aurora or a similar project. It is a Silver - coloured triangle, and apparntly is called HALO (High Altitude Low Observability). Reports say it is being built and tested by British Aerospace from their plant at Warton, Lancashire. More information on HALO can be found at my website : http://www.Geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5106 Stephen O'Brien, Manchester, England ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #83 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "skunk-works-digest-request@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. 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