skunk-works-digest Wednesday, November 19 1997 Volume 06 : Number 089 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** [Fwd: MILINET: Navy Protects U-2 Flights] Re: Penkovsky Papers LMAS tunnel Penkovsky Abandoned Blackbird David's piece on the Myrabo/Mead White Sands Hypersonic Saucer Tests Re: F-22A Trivia F-117 book Re: Penkovsky STOL Transport Re: LMAS tunnel Re: Penkovsky News item NYT Article Re: NYT Article Re: NYT Article U-2 Flights Re: NYT Article Re: F-117 book (and more...) This appeared in my mailbox *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:22:51 -0500 From: James Stevenson Subject: [Fwd: MILINET: Navy Protects U-2 Flights] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------DAF785A3E21D85B888CCB358 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please disregard the last forwarded message regarding the U-2. Here is the article I intended to send regarding the survivability of the U-2. Jim Stevenson - --------------DAF785A3E21D85B888CCB358 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Received: from mrin42.mx.aol.com(198.81.19.152) by mailgate31-hme2 via smap (KC5.24) id Q_10.1.1.24/Q_15639_1_3469afe4; Wed Nov 12 05:32:20 1997 Received: (from root@localhost) by mrin42.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/AOL-2.0.0) id IAA16771; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:30:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:30:29 -0500 (EST) From: MAJUSMCRET@aol.com Message-ID: <971112083028_-1107219861@mrin42.mail.aol.com> Subject: MILINET: Navy Protects U-2 Flights Published in Washington, D.C.. . . . . . . . . . . . . 5am -- Novmeber 12, 1997 . . . . . . . . . . . . .www.washtimes.com Naval commanders protecting U-2 warn Saddam not to attack - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ By Sabet el-Masri AGENCE FRANCE PRESSE - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ABOARD THE USS NIMITZ The U.S. Navy in the Persian Gulf is on high alert and has massive firepower ready to ward off any Iraqi attempt to shoot down U-2 reconnaissance flights, U.S. naval commanders warned yesterday. . . . . Rear Adm. John D. Nathman told reporters aboard the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Nimitz that its planes provided cover for the U.S. spy plane to fly a mission over Iraq on Monday despite Iraqi threats to shoot down the U-2. . . . . "We supported the U-2 flight yesterday. We are in a high stage of readiness. We have no intention to put in danger our U-2," said Adm. Nathman, commander of the carrier group. . . . . He said Iraq was notified ahead of the flight, which followed a weeklong suspension during a U.N. diplomatic mission to Baghdad. "Our determination is to protect those flights, and we do have the capabilities," he said. . . . . "We have a message to [Iraqi President] Saddam Hussein that we have a tremendous combat capability," the admiral warned. . . . . The commander of U.S. forces in the Gulf, Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, arrived in Kuwait yesterday for meetings with U.S. allies about the situation. . . . . Capt. Isaac E. Richardson, commanding officer of the Nimitz, which was about 100 miles south of Iraq, said no U-2 mission was scheduled for yesterday. On Monday, the U-2 was backed by F-18 Hornets and F-14 Tomcats as well as Hawkeye radar planes. . . . . The officers stressed their normal mission was to patrol a "no-fly" zone over southern Iraq and keep out Iraqi aircraft. But "we will protect the U-2 and, if necessary, we will take military retaliation," Capt. Richardson said. . . . . The Nimitz captain warned that "if the U-2 is shot down, the chance of confrontation will be very high." . . . . Adm. Nathman said the showdown since Baghdad imposed a ban on U.S. weapons inspectors working for the United Nations on Oct. 29 was "not between the U.S. and Iraq, but between the U.N. and Iraq." . . . . "Iraq is the one who is breaking its mandate and not abiding by the U.N. resolution," he said, referring to the disarmament terms for a cease-fire in the 1991 Gulf war over Kuwait. . . . . The Nimitz, which carries about 77 aircraft, including 14 F-14 fighters and 36 F/A-18Cs, is leading a 17-ship battle group inside the Gulf. Seven of the ships are capable of firing Tomahawk cruise missiles. . . . . The Pentagon said about 200 U.S. warplanes are based in the region, most of them in Saudi Arabia. Of the 18,500 U.S. military personnel in the area, about 12,500 are sailors and Marines. . . . . The Nimitz returned to the Gulf on Oct. 12, a few days ahead of schedule, following Iranian cross-border air raids into Iraq and Iraqi violations of the southern exclusion zone. Copyright (C) 1997 News World Communications, Inc. - --------------DAF785A3E21D85B888CCB358-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:21:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Joseph F. Donoghue" Subject: Re: Penkovsky Papers There is a book published in recent years called _The Spy Who Saved the World_, It is based on the actual transcripts of Penkovsky's interrogations in London and elsewhere during his trips outside the USSR. The newer book verifies what was published in _The Penkovsky Papers_ in the mid sixties regarding Powers' shootdown. (Many missiles fired and a Soviet fighter was downed as well as the U-2). Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:36:24 -0800 (PST) From: David Lednicer Subject: LMAS tunnel >Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > >> The wind tunnel tests were conducted at the Lockheed Martin >> Aeronautical Systems (LMAS) high speed wind tunnel facility in Grand >> Prairie, Texas. > > I've been to this wind tunnel, and it is indeed "high speed" - not Mach > 1, not Mach 2, not Mach 3, but *much* higher (you'll understand if I > don't say more...) I don't see this as a test for anything related to > U-2s... > > Greg Fieser I too have been to the old Vought tunnel complex. There are two wind tunnels there. One is a subsonic tunnel - I have seen data from a test of a UH-1 fuselage in this tunnel. The other tunnel has different test sections that allow testing in several speed ranges, all well above M=1. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:40:57 -0800 (PST) From: David Lednicer Subject: Penkovsky No, "The Penkovsky Papers" were not CIA disinformation. They were very real and have been borne out by recent revelations from the former USSR. As no Westerner has ever been able to closely examine the remains of Power's airplane, we don't know exactly what caused it to go down. Kelly Johnson, after examining all the pictures of the wreckage theorized that the horizontal tail on one side came off from blast damage, causing the aircraft to nose over. The rear fuselage then broke and the wings eventually came off. Powers decided to not use his seat and bailed out manually. He forgot to disconnect either his oxygen hose or radio cord and struggled with it to quite a low altitude, before it snapped. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 12:54:19 -0800 From: "Anderson, Richard W" Subject: Abandoned Blackbird On Nov 5, 1997 Paul Suhler wrote: > The student canopy from the Goose seems to have been removed and > placed on article 131, which is now a gate guard at the Skunk Works. > The legend on the canopy says "Kelly Johnson," which isn't quite > appropriate, since he only flew in the Goose. I'd heard over a year > earlier that 131 was also missing spikes, so maybe those also came off > of the Goose. I just wanted to note that when I photographed the aircraft on October 15th, the Goose still had both canopies in place as well as the engine spikes. The top half of the plane was covered in the white protective coating which was torn over both canopies (like they'd been opened) but they were both there. Both of the vertical tails were missing though. And, at least in my pictures, the bird by the gate (06937) doesn't have Kelly's name on it. Rick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 14:51:18 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: David's piece on the Myrabo/Mead White Sands Hypersonic Saucer Tests Our own David Windle wrote an interesting piece last Sunday on the Leik Myrabo and Frankin Mead AFRL sponsored tests of a laser boosted lightcraft at White Sands Missile Range. David is much too modest to honk his own horn so I'm doing it for him (I hope he doesn't mind). Check out the London Sunday Times 'Innovation' section for 09th November 1997. You can get an online copy for your personal use at: http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/Sunday-Times/frontpage.html You'll have to answer a few questions but its free. It's an interesting piece. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 15:29:35 -0800 From: larry@ichips.intel.com Subject: Re: F-22A Trivia I wrote: >>Did you guys see those great shots of the F-22A in the 11/97 Air Force >>magazine? >>I love that cockpit shot with Paul Metz. Someone pointed out to me that Paul Metz was the chief test pilot for Northrop and flew the YF-23 during the ATF flyoff. Now he's the chief test pilot on F-22! Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Nov 1997 21:43:38 -0500 (EST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: F-117 book Hello. Could someone give me review of the book "How To Fly and Fight In the F-117 Nighthawk" published by Jane's (125796D)? I saw it in Zenith Books catalog and wonder if it is worth it to spend $18.00. May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net "No. I am not dead because I refuse to believe that the afterlife is run by you (Q). The universe is not so badly designed." Capt. Jean-Luc Picard (ST TNG) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 05:19:37 -0500 From: Frank Markus Subject: Re: Penkovsky The contents of the Penksovsky Papers book was real enough. However, I believe that the book itself was not written by Penkovsky but, rather, by the CIA. I cannot judge what (if anything) they added or deleted from it that was not factually based on the information that they had received from General Penkovsky. At 08:40 AM 11/12/97 -0800, you wrote: > > No, "The Penkovsky Papers" were not CIA disinformation. They were >very real and have been borne out by recent revelations from the former >USSR. > > As no Westerner has ever been able to closely examine the remains >of Power's airplane, we don't know exactly what caused it to go down. >Kelly Johnson, after examining all the pictures of the wreckage theorized >that the horizontal tail on one side came off from blast damage, causing >the aircraft to nose over. The rear fuselage then broke and the wings >eventually came off. Powers decided to not use his seat and bailed out >manually. He forgot to disconnect either his oxygen hose or radio cord >and struggled with it to quite a low altitude, before it snapped. > >------------------------------------------------------------------- >David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" >Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com >2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (206) 643-9090 >Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (206) 746-1299 > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 12:31:28 +0000 From: 11506@aquinas.ac.uk Subject: STOL Transport Hello to all, Over the Summer I saw a CNN report on a STOL transporter developed in the '70's (I think). The idea was to land this transport on a small field in the Middle East and rescue western hostages. Rockets were used to reduce the stopping and Take-Off distances. Can anyone tell me more about this? Are there any pictures available? Stephen O'Brien, Manchester, England http//:www.Geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5106 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 08:35:51 -0800 From: Speed Racer 71 Subject: Re: LMAS tunnel David Lednicer wrote: > > > I've been to this wind tunnel, and it is indeed "high speed" - not Mach > > 1, not Mach 2, not Mach 3, but *much* higher (you'll understand if I > > don't say more...) I don't see this as a test for anything related to > > U-2s... > > I too have been to the old Vought tunnel complex. There are two > wind tunnels there. One is a subsonic tunnel - I have seen data from a > test of a UH-1 fuselage in this tunnel. The other tunnel has different > test sections that allow testing in several speed ranges, all well above > M=1. > The subsonic tunnel was shut down long ago (don't remember exactly when, but it may have been 15+ years ago). The high speed tunnel work is mostly contracted by others as it's (high speed) capabilities are unique to LMAS. I seem to remember that the former General Dynamics group did a large amount of their NASP testing in the LMAS high-speed tunnel... My point was that if any "recent" testing was done at this facility, it was not in the speed range of a U-2 or any other subsonic aircraft. Which leads us to, dare I say, a hypersonic vehicle in need of such a facility...... ( I won't say Aur*ra :) ) Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 17:15:14 +0100 From: Samuel Sporrenstrand Subject: Re: Penkovsky According to the book 'Deception: The invicible war between the KGB and the CIA', Anotolij Golitsyn (ex-soviet spy) told Mr. Edward Epstein (the author who has spent his life writing books about CIA/KGB activities during the Cold War with help from extreemly good sources) the Penkovsy papers where put together by CIA after some pressure from the Justice Dept. (Robert Kennedy) to make it look like a diary made by Oleg Penkovsky. If you are interrested and haven't read the book, DO SO! (I'm on my third lap!) Best regards // Samuel Sporrenstrand - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \ / *URL: www.aircraft.base.org _\_/_ *E-Mail: alltech@swipnet.se *----/_(.)_\----* *Contact: Samuel Sporrenstrand - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 14:42:03 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: News item GLOBAL HAWK COMPLETES SOME LOW-SPEED TAXI TESTS -- The Global Hawk high-altitude endurance unmanned aerial vehicle completed a series of critical taxi tests at Edwards AFB, Calif., on Saturday, moving it closer to first flight. The Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical UAV, which is about the size of a U-2 aircraft, completed three separate taxi runs, each in excess of 7,000 feet, a TRA spokesman said Tuesday. The tests at Edwards' Rogers Dry Lake, conducted with the UAV in the fully autonomous mode, were designed to demonstrate guidance and control capability at low speeds, engine and brake responsiveness during taxi, and operation of the environmental control, fuel, hydraulic and electrical systems. The first test demonstrated starts and stops at a speed of six knots; three starts and stops were accomplished in 7,000 feet. In the second test, the vehicle maneuvered a serpentine and straight course at six knots, ending with a 45-degree right turn after 7,500 feet. The third test repeated the serpentine and straight course at 12 knots and concluded, after 7,000 feet, in a 90-degree right turn. Reports on the tests say the vehicle performed "perfectly," according to the TRA spokesman. Medium speed runs will be next, with the vehicle rolling at 35 to 50 knots. High speed tests will be conducted at 65 and 95 knots. No testing will take place at speeds above 95 knots to avoid inadvertent takeoff. Global Hawk is designed to take off at 125 knots. The Pentagon is seeking as many as 50 Global Hawks during the next decade. Teledyne Ryan is Global Hawk's prime contractor. (Aerospace Daily) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Nov 1997 21:11:55 -0600 (CST) From: drbob@creighton.edu Subject: NYT Article In Thursday's (13 November) New York Times there was an article on the Iraqis complaining about the U.S. U-2 overflights of Iraq. I was stunned to read the following (paraphrased): According to one Iraqi official, not only are the American flying U-2 spyplanes over Iraq, they are flying TR-1 spyplanes over Iraq. To the unwashed masses, this certainly gives the impression that there are all kinds of U.S. Yankee Air Pirates violating Iraqi airspace. Lessee, when did the USAF do away with the TR-1 designation? What is a TR-1 anyway? Hmmmmm. Who's winning the propaganda war? Does Bill Clinton know the difference? Madeline Albright? Anyone in charge? Robert S. "DrBob" Hopkins, III ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 06:08:37 -0500 From: John Stone Subject: Re: NYT Article Dr. Bob and all, >In Thursday's (13 November) New York Times there was an article on the >Iraqis complaining about the U.S. U-2 overflights of Iraq. I was stunned >to read the following (paraphrased): > >According to one Iraqi official, not only are the American flying U-2 >spyplanes over Iraq, they are flying TR-1 spyplanes over Iraq. > >To the unwashed masses, this certainly gives the impression that there are >all kinds of U.S. Yankee Air Pirates violating Iraqi airspace. Lessee, >when did the USAF do away with the TR-1 designation? What is a TR-1 >anyway? Hmmmmm. Who's winning the propaganda war? Does Bill Clinton know >the difference? Madeline Albright? Anyone in charge? There outwardly is is no difference between a TR-1 and a U-2R, the differences are internal wiring, all TR were shipped to be flown out of RAF Alconbury....TR(Tactical Recon). One of the things done during the "S" mods were(was) that sensor wiring was being standardized, so that all U-2s can carry all sensors. Besides all the dets, at least to my info are now flying the "S" version of the U-2, so Saddam next will be saying that they are being overflown by 3 different "spy planes"! The name change was made around Oct 1991. And no problably neither Bill nor Madeline know the difference. And last but not least, probably no one is in charge! Best, John John Stone jstone@thepoint.net U-2 and SR-71 Web page: http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 08:31:06 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: Re: NYT Article John wrote > >And last but not least, probably no one is in charge! I thought Alexander Haig was in charge! Tom Tom Robison, tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Airborne Communications Systems Hughes Defense Communications, 1010 Production Rd. Fort Wayne, IN 46808 Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone, and do not reflect the views or opinions of Hughes Defense Communications, Hughes Aircraft Corp., Hughes Electronics Corp., General Motors Corp., Raytheon Corp., God, or my wife. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 11:34:49 -0800 From: patrick Subject: U-2 Flights A friend was recently listening to PINION flying over Northern California. The pilot was heard requesting a flight level change from 96,000 to 24,000 feet. PINION is the call sign used by U2 training flights originating from Beale. It sounds like they are following the advice of what they told us back in the sixties, "When the bomb goes off, make sure you are higher than the bomb." patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 15:54:08 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com (GREG WEIGOLD) Subject: Re: NYT Article I saw this large mouse looking creature waving to the crowds in front of the White House today... he had on white gloves and red shorts! Who WAS that?!? ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: NYT Article Author: drbob@creighton.edu at INTERNET Date: 11/13/97 9:11 PM In Thursday's (13 November) New York Times there was an article on the Iraqis complaining about the U.S. U-2 overflights of Iraq. I was stunned to read the following (paraphrased): According to one Iraqi official, not only are the American flying U-2 spyplanes over Iraq, they are flying TR-1 spyplanes over Iraq. To the unwashed masses, this certainly gives the impression that there are all kinds of U.S. Yankee Air Pirates violating Iraqi airspace. Lessee, when did the USAF do away with the TR-1 designation? What is a TR-1 anyway? Hmmmmm. Who's winning the propaganda war? Does Bill Clinton know the difference? Madeline Albright? Anyone in charge? Robert S. "DrBob" Hopkins, III ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 09:28:46 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: F-117 book (and more...) Wei-Jen Su asked: >Could someone give me review of the book "How To Fly and Fight In the F-117 >Nighthawk" published by Jane's (125796D)? I saw it in Zenith Books catalog >and wonder if it is worth it to spend $18.00. I just got a card from them (Zenith) saying that its now 60 days since my order from 9/22/97, and that they still don't have it available. On the other hand, the 'Christmas' edition of Zenith's catalog includes quite a few nice, new books, including one, that I picked up on Friday at Schulers Bookstore, called: "Area 51: The Dreamland Chronicles", subtitled "The Legend of Americas Most Secret Military Base", by David Darlington, published 1997 by Henry Holt and Company, Inc., ISBN: 0-8050-4777-8, Zenith #126436E. If you expect anything revealing about Area 51, Black Project aircraft, and things like that, you will be bitterly disappointed by this book. Its only references to the history of Area 51 come from Ben Rich's autobiography (with Leo Janos) "Skunk Works", and Curtis Peebles' book "Dark Eagles: A History of Top Secret U.S. Aircraft Programs", with some additional data from Peter Merlin and his publications. Frequently, when actual aircraft and real historical events relating to Groom Lake are discussed (basically in only one of 13 chapters -- counting prologue and epilogue as chapters), several errors and typos show the complete ignorance of the writer regarding aerospace and related topics. Actually, at the beginning, I hated the book, and thought the stiff $25 was quite a waste of money. If you are looking for a real (serious, and very revealing) history of the Groom Lake base, Area 51, or AFFTC Det 3, you probably have to wait until Pete Merlin publishes his. :) But now, after reading this book completely, I do like it! If you are looking for a book about "the Phenomenon Area 51", then this is a must read. One chapter is devoted to some background information on the origins of the base, U-2s, A-12s, SR-71s and F-117s, the Lockheed Skunk Works, etc., while the rest of the book chronicles the very recent public (and often Internet) history of Area 51, and many related persons. The main protagonists are: * the 'Interceptors': Glenn Campbell (PsychoSpy), Mike Farmer (Agent X), Tom and Jeri Mahood, Stuart 'Stu' Brown (The Minister of Words), etc.; * the 'Elders': James 'Jim' Goodall and John Andrews; * the UFO fringe: Bob Lazar (Bufon), Gene Huff (Gufon), Bill Uhouse (Jarod), John Lear, Chuck 'Chuckie' Clark, Ambassador Merlyn Merlin II, etc.; * the Conspiracy fringe: Anthony Hilder, Pat and Joe Travis, etc. * and to a lesser extent the real players: Ben Rich, Kelly Johnson, Tony LeVier, and Bill Park; The book is based on three major pillars: * PsychoSpy's publications, basically various "Groom Lake Dessert Rats", most of them available online; * Newsgroup postings to alt.conspiracy.area51 (many also available on various web sites); * Personal interviews and trip reports of the author; Even though the lengthy quoting and paraphrasing from the first two categories comprise a major portion of the book -- none of which was news to me -- the third category more than compensated for that. I do have to admit, though, that the subject is very fascinating to me, if only for the simple reason that I know most of the protagonists personally or by reputation. Since arriving in the USA 5 years ago, I was very interested in the topic, visited many of those places, met several of the people, and heard and read about the others. Even though not all anecdotes that I am aware of are mentioned in the book, it is a fun read that outlines the characters involved and many of their motivations. Recommended, even though only for a selected group of readers. Other recent publications worthy of mentioning are: * World Air Power Journal Volume 30, Autumn/Fall 1997, even though nothing very skunky is in it this time; * Air International Vol.53, No.5, November 1997: F-22 first flight, UCAV artist's impression, SR-71A with LASRE, and a nice big cover photo of LMSW's X-35 propulsion test wind tunnel model; * AirForces Monthly No.116, November 1997: smaller photo of same X-35 model, photo of captured Iraqi Mi-24 Hind at the Aggressor Threat Museum at Nellis AFB, NV, photo article of F-117A crash in Maryland; * And of course various Aviation Week & Space Technology and Flight International magazines, too numerous to list here, and probably already mentioned here on a much more timely basis before; - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:47:20 -0500 From: Dean Osgood Subject: This appeared in my mailbox >X-Sender: craddock@west.net >Date: Sun, 16 Nov 1997 16:20:56 -0800 >To: webmaster@cseti.org >From: "A.J. Craddock" >Subject: Large triangular UFO seen over Santa Barbara Channel, Ca. >Mime-Version: 1.0 > >At approximately 10:05 pm on Friday 14th November, Dr. Ted Loder and Tony >Craddock were checking out new nightscopes from Tony's house overlooking >the Santa Barbara Channel. Ted was using an ITT Night Mariner (Model G3) >and Tony a Litton NightMate (Model Nav3) each with a light magnification of >30,000 to 50,000x. > >They both happened to be looking through the nightscopes at Jupiter, which >was about ten degrees above the horizon and over the island of San Miguel. >Simultaneously they both saw a set of lights near Jupiter in the shape of a >large triangle silently flying eastward down the Santa Barbara Channel. >They followed it for about six seconds until it disappeared behind some >trees. Both realized that the visible lights were on the outside edges of a >large craft which was not itself visible in the night scopes. > >A few seconds after the initial recognition, both saw the craft tilt >slightly on its side so that its triangular shape could be more clearly >seen. Its shape was delineated by five to eight lights along its edges >clearly visible through the nightscopes. Ted Loder counted five or six >lights in the shape of a triangle seen partly on its side, while Tony >Craddock saw an additional one or two lights in the center towards the >rear, making it appear chevron or boomerang shaped. Tony had the clearer >nightscope which may explain why he was able to see the extra lights. Both >had the impression that it was not lights independently flying in formation >but a solid craft. The length of the craft appeared to be longer than the >sword on Orion's belt and shorter than Orion's belt itself. > >The craft was not visible with the naked eye and was not seen by the two >other people who were present without nightscopes. > >It was later estimated that the craft traveled through a visible arc of 75 >degrees in about 6 seconds. It was estimated that the craft was at a >distance of 5-10 miles, which would have meant it was traveling at >approximately 4000-8000 mph. > >Both Ted Loder and Tony Craddock are members of CSETI (Center for the Study >of Extraterrestrial Intelligence), and attended CSETI's Congressional >Briefing on UFO/ET in Washington DC on April 9th of this year. Dr. Loder >is a Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of New Hampshire. Tony >Craddock is President of an international petroleum consulting company and >co-ordinates Santa Barbara's CSETI Working Group. ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #89 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "skunk-works-digest-request@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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