skunk-works-digest Thursday, December 18 1997 Volume 06 : Number 098 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest Re[2]: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? Secret activities at Guam Re: Wings Of Fame #8 New Magazine Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Cancel subscription Problems/Japanese Stealth. FOAS/Other Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Re: FOAS/Other Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest Re: FOAS/Other Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest Re: FOAS/Other NASP a disguise for Aurora? Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:48:47 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea Gavin wrote: >Although it is possible to recover aircraft that have gone down in water, I >think that the chances of recovering an aircraft that didn't officially >exist would be pretty slim. If the recovery guys aren't told what they're >picking up from the sea bed, they are going to notice sooner or later that >its not a regular aircraft. Isn't X-33 scheduled to fly over the ocean during its test flights ? As far as the black a/c recovery teams are concerned, I don't think they'd pose a serious security risk. I don't remember reading about the Have Blue accidents at Groom until after the F-117 was announced. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 10:38:32 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? Guam is a good site for SR-71 operations for a number of destinations that for political reasons you may not want to launch out of certain coutries, but it would be more practical to simply mount them out of the regular base as opposed to a dedicated base, and far less expensive. Security would actually be better. There never were that many SR-71s operating to have a dedicated base. Art Hanley Want an example of a False assumption? Then assume that the above Reflects my employers' views ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 13:41:51 -0500 (EST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, David wrote: > Isn't X-33 scheduled to fly over the ocean during its test flights ? Nope. It is going to fly from Edwards AFB to a AFB in Montana... Don't remember where exactly. But, the Hyper-X is going to be test over the ocean and "hopefully" land in a tiny island. May the Force be with you Su Wei-Jen E-mails: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu wjs@webspan.net ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 10:45:13 GMT From: ahanley@usace.mil Subject: Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Kerry, Your memory is correct. It showed the front section of the aircraft. the one Crickmore's article in Wings of Fame is smaller, but shows the whole aircraft. Also, we have to give credit to Andreas (who always gets his magazines ahead of me!), who did point this article out first. Art Hanley If you asked my employers whether they had anything to do with the above, if it represented their views or if they even knew about it, they'd say, "No", and they'd be telling the truth. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 16:16:58 EST From: ConsLaw Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest Has anyone else had problems getting unreadable Skunkwork digests lately? #97 was sent to me as an attachment WINMAIL.DAT. - Apparently a Microsoft Mail format. Steve Hofer conslaw@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 97 14:59:26 GMT From: "Terry Colvin" Subject: Re[2]: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? SR-71s regularly flew out of U-Tapao Air Base in southern Thailand during the Vietnam fighting. Observation security was impossible due to the hillside bungalows overlooking the base. Terry W. Colvin < colvint@fhu.disa.mil > ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? Author: skunk-works@netwrx1.com at smtp-fhu Date: 12/17/97 10:38 AM Guam is a good site for SR-71 operations for a number of destinations that for political reasons you may not want to launch out of certain coutries, but it would be more practical to simply mount them out of the regular base as opposed to a dedicated base, and far less expensive. Security would actually be better. There never were that many SR-71s operating to have a dedicated base. Art Hanley Want an example of a False assumption? Then assume that the above Reflects my employers' views ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:38:17 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? Stephen O'Brien wrote: >I've been reading a report on the web that said that: >"Reports in the American aviation press during 1996 mentioned >a British-Built Stealth Demonstrator undergoing tests at the Groom >Lake facility in Nevada." >Can anyone confirm this? Actually, this is somewhat true. Aviation Week & Space Technology mentioned something like that in at least one article, but in early 1995 (not 1996): * AW&ST Vol. 142, No. 6, February 6, 1995, pages 18-21, titled "U.S. Black Programs Stress Lean Projects": Quote: Defense and industry officials confirm there are at least two U.S. and one British classified, fixed-wing aircraft prototyping program underway. Quote: "The British have designed a manned aircraft with a low RCS from the frontal aspect, but I don't think they have anything flying," the first senior U.S. defense official said. For more information see also a longer post of mine from February 8, 1995, archived in Skunk Works Digest Vol. 5, No. 200. Tom Robison joked: >According to a program on the Discovery Channel last night, Groom Lake, aka >Area 51, doesn't exist anymore! This show had quite a few errors, especially the stuff the narrator said was pretty bad. For example, he noted that during Desert Storm, B-2s and F-117s attacked the Iraqis, who didn't even know those weapons of mass destruction existed (paraphrased), which is of course totally wrong. No B-2s were used in Desert Storm, F-117s and B-2 were quite public at that time, and neither are considered 'weapons of mass destruction'. But even established 'Investigators' made some blunders, like 'The Minister of Words' (Stuart Brown, Popular Science), who said the CIA asked Lockheed to develop the U-2, while in reality Kelly Johnson went to them, after the USAF didn't invite Lockheed into the original 'Bald Eagle' program. Pete Merlin on the other hand was perfect! He, Glenn Campbell, and Tom Mahood seemed to be the only ones who didn't talk just to be in front of a camera. Agent X (Mike Farmer) didn't say anything of value, but the green night scope-like scenery was... hmm, at least scenic. :) And of course Jim Wilson (Popular Mechanics), insisted that his ridiculous 'Area 51 has been moved' story was fact -- he should have had the decency to apologize for it, rather than promote this stupid idea. And of course nobody questioned or corrected it. The overhead photography of the Groom Lake base was pretty good, though, with pictures from the early days (1950s) to the mid 1980s (and I belive even a later one). The U** stuff, of course, was just laughable. Wei-Jen Su mentioned: >Talking about the acknowledge of Area 51, I bought a book from Barnes & >Nobles called "Smart Weapos" by Hugh McDaid and David Oliver. In page 141 >there is a picture of Kelly Johnson writting on the blackboard providing >that Area-51 does exist. The picture quality looks like from a old TV film. I still haven't seen that book yet, but this scene -- Kelly Johnson talking at a 'briefing', playing with an A-12 model, and writing a schedule for the first A-12 (Article 121) with chalk on a blackboard, where he underlines 'Area 51' -- is also in about every Blackbird-related video that has aired on the Discovery Channel, and on the videos you can buy at the Blackbird Airpark, or the Skunk Works Employees Shop. David later asked: >Isn't X-33 scheduled to fly over the ocean during its test flights ? and Wei-Jen Su replied: >Nope. It is going to fly from Edwards AFB to a AFB in Montana... >Don't remember where exactly. The X-33 will start from Edwards AFB (near Haystack Butte), California, fly north over Nevada, and will either land in Utah (at Michael AAF (Army Air Field)), inside the Dugway Proving Grounds, southwest of Salt Lake City, or continue even further north, over Idaho, to land at Malmstrom AFB in Montana, east of Great Falls. Besides Las Vegas (a little bit east of the planned flight paths), there is nothing much of interest -- besides Area 51, of course -- under those flight paths. :) >But, the Hyper-X is going to be test over the ocean and >"hopefully" land in a tiny island. That will be the Western Test Range, and air-launch will be about 40 to 50 miles west of NAWCWS Pt. Mugu (Naval Air Warfare Center Weapons Station Point Mugu), off the coast of California. The B-52 carrier will launch from Edwards AFB, CA, though, and the Hyper-X and its first/second stage Pegasus booster, won't land, but will splash down, depending on the tested speed etc., about 700 nautical miles or so down the range. I don't think that they plan to recover the vehicles, but it is possible. The third X-23A, which was launched 04/18/1967 from Vandenberg on top of an Atlas SLV, was recovered, off Kwajalein. BTW, the A-12-mounted D-21s were tested at about the same location, back then, and the Range is usually used for ICBM tests, etc. out of Vandenberg AFB, CA. Just recently (early July), they used a Minuteman II for target practice for the Boeing EKV (Exoatmospheric Kill Vehicle), launched against them from the US Army KMR (Kwajalein Missile Range), at Kwajalein Atoll, on the Marshall Islands. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:40:36 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Secret activities at Guam I was always wondering, if the reported activity at Northwest Field on Guam (not North Field, which became Anderson AFB), in the late 1960s and early 1970s was maybe related to the deployment of the two Senior Bowl B-52Hs with their D-21Bs, rather than SR-71s. I have never seen any evidence that SR-71s were based on Guam, even though U-2s were deployed there for HASP flights, while D-21 test and operational flights over China could have very well originated from there. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 17:41:48 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Larry Smith wrote: >I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone post this yet. Actually, I posted a little revue of this (very good) article on November 20, which is archived in Skunk Works Digest Vol. 6, No. 90. and later: >Also has a engineering drawing of the proposed SAC B-71 Mach 3 bomber >derivative of the SR-71. to which Kerry Ferrand responded: >Hmm I think I recall that drawing appearing on the inside cover of one of >the Crickmore books..side view showing a load of SRAMs in an internal >bay..or am I imagining things? Yup, the left (forward) half of the same drawing is in both editions of Paul F. Crickmores's book: "Lockheed SR-71 - The Secret Missions Exposed" on the inside of the back cover, while the inside of the front cover shows the left (forward) half of a similar drawing depicting the R-12. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:05:51 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: New Magazine The latest Popular Science magazine, January 1998 issue, has a couple of little, but maybe interesting articles: * Cover Story: Micro Spy Planes, Inside the World's Smallest Aircraft (about the new breed of MAVs (Micro Air Vehicles), and things to come); * The Last Hero Pilot, Chuck Yeager's Final Flight (about the re-enactment of his first supersonic flight, 50 years ago -- includes a couple of 'sloppy writing' errors, though); * Boom! Mach 1 (about Thrust SSC's land speed record); * Newsfronts, Space: Crewless Craft (about the Boeing SMC (Space Maneuver Vehicle) subscale prototype's drop test); - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 00:09:35 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake?/Recovery from the sea Su Wei-Jen wrote: > Nope. It is going to fly from Edwards AFB to a AFB in Montana... >Don't remember where exactly. > But, the Hyper-X is going to be test over the ocean and >"hopefully" land in a tiny island. You're absolutely right of course ! Whatever was I thinking of... Thanks for putting me straight. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 20:08:44 -0800 From: Larry Smith Subject: Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Larry Smith wrote: >>I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone post this yet. Andreas responds: >Actually, I posted a little revue of this (very good) article on November 20, >which is archived in Skunk Works Digest Vol. 6, No. 90. Well let's see, ... Andreas posted on 20 Nov 97: >>>... and of course Project SENIOR CROWN (RB-12/RS-12/R-12/B-12/B-71/SR-71A/SR-71B/ >>>... Ah yes, you're quite correct, you did indeed post something about this article and even mentioned the B-71, my mistake. I didn't notice B-71 buried in there. Kerry Ferrand responds: >>Hmm I think I recall that drawing appearing on the inside cover of one of >>the Crickmore books..side view showing a load of SRAMs in an internal >>bay..or am I imagining things? OK, I'll check there for more information. Thanks. Art Hanley responds: >Kerry, > > Your memory is correct. It showed the front section of the aircraft. >the one Crickmore's article in Wings of Fame is smaller, but shows the whole >aircraft. Also, we have to give credit to Andreas (who always gets his >magazines ahead of me!), who did point this article out first. Credit? Hmmm. Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl responds: >Yup, the left (forward) half of the same drawing is in both editions of >Paul F. Crickmores's book: "Lockheed SR-71 - The Secret Missions Exposed" >on the inside of the back cover, while the inside of the front cover shows >the left (forward) half of a similar drawing depicting the R-12. Yes, Andreas. I heard Kerry. I'll check that Crickmore reference. I will dig deeper. I find this kind of thing interesting. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Dec 1997 22:29:15 -0800 From: John Gleisner Subject: Cancel subscription Unsubscribe ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:30:07 +0900 From: "Darryl Matthews" Subject: Problems/Japanese Stealth. This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD0BDA.957CC4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK people...well, I've started on this program that I've promised you all. One problem: I don't have a 32-bit compiler so the program would only accept 16-bit filenames...traditional style (swd_vol2.002, for example) which means renaming every skunkworks file you have (in my case that's 616+ and I've already renamed all by hand once!!). Any programmers out there who could help me...e-mail me personally so that we don't take up space on the digest... S K U N K Y S T U F F. Since I live in Tokyo I was wondering whether any of you know about Japanese stealth projects? I know about the FS-X - the joint US/Japan F-16 derivative. There is also, apparently, a completely indigeneous aircraft called the FI-X. Can anyone clue me on this? Thank you. James. PS: Please check out my homepage, and sign the guestbook! I need feedback! ____________________ James Matthews. E-mail (family): matthews@tkb.attnet.or.jp or matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp E-mail (private): james_matthews@hotmail.com Homepage: http://home.att.ne.jp/gold/tomcat21/index2.html ____________________________________ - ------=_NextPart_000_01BD0BDA.957CC4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK people...well, I've started on this = program that I've promised you all.  One problem:  I don't = have a 32-bit compiler so the program would only accept 16-bit = filenames...traditional style (swd_vol2.002, for example) which means = renaming every skunkworks file you have (in my case that's 616+ and I've = already renamed all by hand once!!).
Any programmers out there = who could help me...e-mail me personally so that we don't take up space = on the digest...

S   K   U   N =   K   Y =         S   T =   U   F   F.
Since I live in = Tokyo I was wondering whether any of you know about Japanese stealth = projects?  I know about the FS-X - the joint US/Japan F-16 = derivative.  There is also, apparently, a completely indigeneous = aircraft called the FI-X.  Can anyone clue me on this?

Thank = you.

James.
PS:   Please check out my homepage, and = sign the guestbook!  I need = feedback!
____________________

James Matthews.
E-mail = (family):    matthews@tkb.attnet.or.jp or matthews@tkb.att.ne.jp
E-mail (private):  james_matthews@hotmail.com

Homepage:  http://home.att.ne.jp/gold/tomcat21/index2.html<= font color=3D"#000000">
____________________________________

- ------=_NextPart_000_01BD0BDA.957CC4C0-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:51:52 -0500 From: Steven Barber Subject: FOAS/Other I've heard the story again suggesting that USAF personnel knew that an SR-71 replacement was flying during the Gulf War and that it may well have operated out of a UK base at some point. Based on what a USAF officer was prepared to say to RAF personnel several years ago. Which ties in with another story about an unusual aircraft which had to land at RAF Valley due to a combination of fog at other airfields and some technical problem with the a/c itself, again during the Gulf War. There's also the reports (from Turkey?) that a black manta-shaped a/c was seen accompanying at least one F117 strike on Iraq. Against that, there are the stories of field commanders wanting the sort of intelligence an SR-71 could have produced and being told it was unavailable... ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 08:02:07 -0800 From: G&G Subject: Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl observed: > Yup, the left (forward) half of the same drawing is in both editions of > Paul F. Crickmores's book: "Lockheed SR-71 - The Secret Missions Exposed" > on the inside of the back cover, while the inside of the front cover shows > the left (forward) half of a similar drawing depicting the R-12. I too find these drawings interesting. Does anyone know if these drawings are available (in a larger format?) anywhere else? Besides the R-12/B-71, has anyone seen similar drawings of the A-12/YF-12/SR-71? Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:03:28 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Wings Of Fame #8 Greg Fieser asked: >I too find these drawings interesting. Does anyone know if these drawings >are available (in a larger format?) anywhere else? I don't know if they are available in a larger format, but Paul Crickmore and Jay Miller had apparently access to some -- maybe Lockheed could sell them in their Employee's Shop, they are obviously declassified. >Besides the R-12/B-71, has anyone seen similar drawings of the >A-12/YF-12/SR-71? In Jay Miller's book "Lockheed Skunk Works -- The First 50 Years" is a very similar drawing of an SR-71A, but again, relatively small. Also, the D-21B drawing in the same book looks like it came from the same source, too. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:53:15 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Re: FOAS/Other At 11:51 AM 12/18/97 -0500, you wrote: >There's also the reports (from Turkey?) that a black manta-shaped a/c >was seen accompanying at least one F117 strike on Iraq. > At what "point" does a Mach 3 aircraft designed for high altitude flight, accompany a sub-sonic aircraft operating below 25,000 foot ? That would be quite the odd couple. patrick cullumber patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:00:16 EST From: MELUMAN Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest Trouble with the Digest? Affirmative ! WINMAIL.DAT format downloads something (very few bytes) that's unreadable with my software. # 97 was at least the second one to be sent this way. Is this another dastardly subversion by Gates? Maestro, Majordomo, whatever ! Please correct this. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 13:08:26 -0700 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: FOAS/Other >At 11:51 AM 12/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > >>There's also the reports (from Turkey?) that a black manta-shaped a/c >>was seen accompanying at least one F117 strike on Iraq. >> >At what "point" does a Mach 3 aircraft designed for high altitude flight, >accompany a sub-sonic aircraft operating below 25,000 foot ? That would be >quite the odd couple. > >patrick cullumber >patrick@e-z.net Nothing in that message said it was a supersonic aircraft- just that it was black and "manta-shaped" (whatever that means- ever seen a manta ray? just about anything described as manta-like is really stingray or skate-like). Dan ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:36:37 GMT From: georgek@netwrx1.com (George R. Kasica) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V6 #97 unreadable digest On Thu, 18 Dec 1997 14:00:16 EST, you wrote: >Trouble with the Digest? Affirmative ! > > WINMAIL.DAT format downloads something (very few bytes) that's unreadable >with my software. # 97 was at least the second one to be sent this way. Is >this another dastardly subversion by Gates? > > Maestro, Majordomo, whatever ! Please correct this. Unfortunately until I find the user/users doing it there is little that I can do, but I've got my mail reader here set to flag anything with a WINMAIL.DAT at the end....unfortunately to get the message I have to get it from the listserver just like you do, so I find out after the fact, but I CAN fix it at that point..... Sorry for any inconvenience, and for all PLEASE check your mailer setups this is a big problem for anyone who can't handle file attachments. George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 414 541 8579 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 800 816 2568 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com West Allis, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 21:39:31 -0500 From: Steven Barber Subject: Re: FOAS/Other How about at take-off or landing? 8^) I'm also not certain that an SR71 replacement would have to have the same or high performance capabilities. If it was relatively invulnerable to air defence systems, had the same range (or better), a longer loiter time & similar sensor suite (or better), wouldn't that do as a replacement just as well? Just playing Devil's advocate. patrick wrote: > At 11:51 AM 12/18/97 -0500, you wrote: > > >There's also the reports (from Turkey?) that a black manta-shaped a/c > >was seen accompanying at least one F117 strike on Iraq. > > > At what "point" does a Mach 3 aircraft designed for high altitude flight, > accompany a sub-sonic aircraft operating below 25,000 foot ? That would be > quite the odd couple. > > patrick cullumber > patrick@e-z.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 97 16:39:09 GMT From: "Terry Colvin" Subject: NASP a disguise for Aurora? The following is excerpted from http://www.ufobbs.com/txt4/3103.ufo under the subject denial and disinformation: "Janes Defense Weekly Vol 18, No 24/25, 12 December 1992. DISGUISED BY NASP Has the National Aero-Space Plane - NASP - provided a disguise for Aurora? At a conference in Orlando last month [November 1992] Heinz Pfeffer, head of the European Space Agency's directorate for space transportation systems, told JDW: "NASP is a cover for Aurora. There's no other reason that the industry would put $900 million into NASP. "Aurora has achieved its goals and NASP can be allowed to fizzle out." NASP's future is in doubt because Congress has not approved funds for developing a prototype." Is this old news that is OBE (overcome by events)? Terry San Pedro Kid ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 20:54:33 -0500 From: Frank Markus Subject: Re: RE: HALO/FOAS at Groom Lake? At 04:36 PM 12/17/97, you wrote: >Machrahanish is probably the base you're thinking of. There's another base: >West Freugh in Scotland that seems to be on the 'Most Likely To': list. Where are these these two bases? In travelling around Britain, my impression has been that RAF bases are generally named after the nearest community -- no matter how tiny. So I decided to try looking up Machrahanish and West Freugh (also just plain Freugh) in the index of my copy of the (1994) Ordanace Survey Motoring Atlas ("Great Britain at 3 Miles to 1 Inch.") No joy for either. However, I see that there is a Macrihanish Airport on the A83 just before reaching Campbelltown. [Note that the spelling is identical but for and extra 'h' in the 'mac' and a single changed vowel.] During a vacation this past September, I made a circuit of the Kintyre peninsula. I must have passed this airport (or its access road) but I don't recall an RAF base (or signs for one) in that area. From previous postings to this list, I seem to recall that Machrahanish is distinguished by an exceptionally long runway. I'm not sure that there is enough flat ground on the Kintyre peninsula to permit that -- but, of course, I hardly know the place well. All of which leads me back to my original question, where are these two bases? ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V6 #98 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "skunk-works-digest-request@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner