skunk-works-digest Wednesday, January 7 1998 Volume 07 : Number 001 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Area 51 Airplane? Re: Airplane? Interesting photo Re: Interesting photo Re: Interesting photo Re: Interesting photo Re: Interesting Photo Re: Interesting Photo Re: Discovery Channel On recent AF News...... Project 'Moby Dick' - Sources, Please A&E Special E-mail problems *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:10:43 EST From: Xelex Subject: Re: Area 51 Darryl Matthews writes: "Why does the AF deny it (Area 51) exists?" I don't mind beating a dead horse, since there are frequently new readers to this list, so here goes... The U.S. Air Force admits the existence of the "operating location near Groom Lake, Nevada." This was entered into the public record when President Clinton signed Presidential Determination 95-45 on 29 September 1995. The site location, Groom Dry Lake, was originally reccomended by Col. O. J. "Ozzie" Ritland." The facility was built in 1955, with funding from the Central Intelligence Agency. It was initially named Paradise Ranch by Clarence "Kelly" Johnson of Lockheed. In 1956, it was officially named Watertown in honor of CIA director Allan Dulles' home town in New York. In 1958, the base was added to the Atomic Energy Commision's Nevada Test Site, and designated Area 51. This designation was lost in 1977, when ownership of the facility was transferred to the Air Force. It became Detachment 3 of the Air Force Flight Test Center, and is usually referred to simply as DET 3. Peter W. Merlin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Dec 97 12:44:58 GMT From: "Terry Colvin" Subject: Airplane? Please courtesy copy me on your suggested modern aircraft photo sites when you reply to Patrick. Terry colvint@fhu.disa.mil ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ Subject: Airplane? Author: pkfrye@ix.netcom.com at smtp-fhu Date: 12/31/97 11:50 AM Hi Terry, Would you know of a web site that shows pictures of modern aircraft? I saw two planes yesterday fly over my house that I did not recognize. I'm thinking that they may have been the new YF-22 (is that the designation). I am not up on the latest, but I do like watching jets and do have an interest in them and sort of know what is around and I don't think these guys fit anything. Thanks and I hope your holidays are great. Peace and regards, Pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Jan 1998 23:38:39 +0100 From: Samuel Sporrenstrand Subject: Re: Airplane? Terry Colvin wrote: > > Please courtesy copy me on your suggested modern aircraft photo sites > when you reply to Patrick. > > Terry > colvint@fhu.disa.mil > > ______________________________ Forward Header __________________________________ > Subject: Airplane? > Author: pkfrye@ix.netcom.com at smtp-fhu > Date: 12/31/97 11:50 AM > > Hi Terry, > > Would you know of a web site that shows pictures of modern aircraft? I > saw two planes yesterday fly over my house that I did not recognize. > I'm thinking that they may have been the new YF-22 (is that the > designation). I am not up on the latest, but I do like watching jets > and do have an interest in them and sort of know what is around and I > don't think these guys fit anything. Thanks and I hope your holidays > are great. > > Peace and regards, Pat I didn't really understand the *forward* part there, so I'll just write the address to whoever wants it. http://www.degeer.norrkoping.se/~samues5h/ 'If it by any chance doesn't work today, it'll work tomorrow' - Samuel S; 1998 Best regards // Samuel Sporrenstrand - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - \ / *URL: www.aircraft.base.org _\_/_ *E-Mail: alltech@swipnet.se *----/_(.)_\----* *Contact: Samuel Sporrenstrand - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 03:25:10 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Interesting photo The Air Force Web site has recently posted an rather interesting photo of a U-2 on what they called a training mission. What I found rather interesting was two pods, I had not seen before. One under the left wing super-pod and another mounted on the dorsal area above the wing, extended up on a pylon. The right super-pod has a large numbers of elint antenna on the underside http://www.af.mil/photos/Dec1997/1125u2.html anyone seen this arrangement before ? John Szalay john.szalay@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:19:29 +1300 (NZDT) From: Kerry Ferrand Subject: Re: Interesting photo On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, John Szalay wrote: > > The Air Force Web site has recently posted an rather interesting > photo of a U-2 on what they called a training mission. What I found > rather interesting was two pods, I had not seen before. > One under the left wing super-pod and another mounted on the dorsal area > above the wing, extended up on a pylon. I've seen the dorsal pod in photos dating back to the 80s, I understand it was testing a real time satellite data link capability..although I guess anything requiring satellites could be stuffed in the same fairing these days. K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 07:59:06 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Interesting photo John Szalay wrote: >The Air Force Web site has recently posted an rather interesting >photo of a U-2 on what they called a training mission. What I found >rather interesting was two pods, I had not seen before. >One under the left wing super-pod and another mounted on the dorsal area >above the wing, extended up on a pylon. >The right super-pod has a large numbers of elint antenna on the underside >http://www.af.mil/photos/Dec1997/1125u2.html >anyone seen this arrangement before ? Yes, this arrangement seems to be a typical SIGINT (SIGnals INTelligence) configuration, called Senior Glass, with the addition of a satellite data link, known as Senior Span. This configuration is apparently often used for flights over Bosnia from OL-FR (Operating Location FRance), out of Istres AB, in southern France. The port and starboard super-pods contain Senior Ruby (ELINT = ELectronic INTelligence) and Senior Spear (COMINT = COMmunications INTelligence) systems, and several of the Senior Spear antennas are also visible below the fuselage. The front section of both super-pods houses the flat Senior Ruby antennas, while the back of the super-pods, the lower fuselage, and the 'canoe' (the pod) below the port super-pod, carry Senior Spear equipment. The combined Senior Ruby and Senior Spear sensor fit is also known as Senior Glass. The fairing that is mounted on top of the pylon located on the back of the aircraft, contains a satellite data link system, which is known as Senior Span (when used with Senior Glass/Spear/Ruby) or Senior Spur (when used with the ASARS-2 = Advanced Synthetic Aperture Radar System 2). The pylon itself contains CDL (Common Data Link) hardware and the small 'bump' on the side of the pylon is actually an air-scoop for equipment cooling purposes. SYERS pictures (Senior Year Electro-optical Relay System, a CCD-type camera, CCD = Charge-Coupled Device) can also be data linked, and sometimes a mix of Senior Glass and ASARS is carried, but I am not sure if the data link would be able to handle both -- I would assume ASARS (and its MTI = Moving Target Indicator capability) would have higher priority, though. NASA has a similar system for their ER-2s, called STARLink (which was actually the prototype Senior Spur system). Another data link, that can be carried by U-2s, the IDL (I... (?) Data Link), or L51/L52 system (designated AN/UPQ-3A), would be located in a triangular looking fairing under the tail, but is only LOS (Line-Of-Sight) capable. The new SR-71 data link fairing under the nose (behind the front wheels) looks very similar. The small pod or fairing protruding from the trailing edge of the left (port) wing is a GPS (Global Positioning System) receiver with its associated antennas. The pod is a little bigger and more square, but otherwise quite similar to the System 20 IRCM (InfraRed Counter Measure) pod/fairing on the trailing edge of the right (starboard) wing. The GPS is in use with U-2s since at least a couple of years now. Both, System 20 and GPS, are only fitted for operational missions, and the pods/fairings are usually empty on training flights. The nose is probably empty, but could carry SYERS, while the Q-Bay might contain a Sensor or Mission Recorder. The wing tips contain the System 27-1 RWRs (Radar Warning Receivers), and the E-Bay contains probably a System 29 EWS (Electronic Warfare System), or defensive jammer, with its associated antennas located at the air intakes, just in front of the intake air spill duct grills. The most recent and very comprehensive source for U-2 information is Chris Pocock's lead article in WAPJ (World Air Power Journal) Volume 28, Spring 1997, which contains several good photos and drawings of U-2s in exactly the same configuration, as well as schematics of many sensors and a whole bunch of other information. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais..org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 08:11:55 -0500 From: John Stone Subject: Re: Interesting photo John Szalay wrote: > The Air Force Web site has recently posted an rather interesting >photo of a U-2 on what they called a training mission. What I found >rather interesting was two pods, I had not seen before. >One under the left wing super-pod and another mounted on the dorsal area >above the wing, extended up on a pylon. >The right super-pod has a large numbers of elint antenna on the underside > > http://www.af.mil/photos/Dec1997/1125u2.html > > > anyone seen this arrangement before ? The dorsal "pod" is the "real time" data link sat antenna. I'm checking to see what the left superpod has attached to the underside. Though it looks like the pod itself is a ASARS unit. Which I thought was carried in the nose! Nice picture though, John, Thanks for the headsup on it! Best, John John Stone jstone@thepoint.net U-2 and SR-71 Web page: http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 13:39:27 -0000 From: Gavin Payne Subject: Re: Interesting Photo Hi When the U2 was operating out of RAF Fairford (Central/South England), I did see one with the dorsal pod. I knew from talking with U2 crew at the air show there a few weeks earlier that they were using synthetic radar mapping to look for mass graves, they just couldn't tell me where they were looking for them. They used the phrase "Well there isn't anything interesting much over the UK right now, maybe we fly to somewhere where there is" :) The pilot who told me that died a few days later, Captain David "Hawker" Hawkins. I still have a newspaper report on the accident if anyone is interested. The report said that it was believed that his mission was a surveillance mission on Serb positions prior to a Nato attack. Regards, Gavin Payne - ------------ Gavin Payne G.Payne@cleancrunch.demon.co.uk - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 4 Jan 1998 16:27:53 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Interesting Photo Thanks to all for the quick response, I figured on the Elint/Sig angle, because of the antenna, but was unsure of what features were used. John ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Discovery Channel I think the D-21 radioactivity is located in the hot section, as the material used there is "hot" in more than one way. I believe that this was accidental, in the sense that they were looking for a material that could withstand the temperatures and pressures required and it just happened to be slightly radioactive. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end.... On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Xelex wrote: > "Area 51: The Real Story" on Discovery Channel may not have been great, but it > was better than any previous effort. At least it was not a saucerfest. When > they interviewed me, I was afraid that I would be sandwiched in between a > handful of UFO enthusiasts, a lone cry of reason in the wilderness. I was > happy that they devoted the first half of the program entirely to aircraft. > UFOs were given refreshingly brief, and light, treatment with plenty of > rebuttal. > > Regrettably they failed to use the best material I gave them, mainly that the > Groom Lake facility is currently operated by the Air Force Flight Test Center, > and that recent programs have leaned heavily towards electronic warfare, > classified avionics, "black" weapons programs, and low observables. Sorry, no > saucers. > > It was unforgivable to let Jim Wilson (of Popular Mechanics) say that the > facility closed up shop and moved to Utah. There should have been some > rebuttal. Wilson's story has been discredited by numerous people recently > visiting the Groom Lake Road area, and by one individual who visited the so- > called "new Area 51" and found it to be an abandoned rocket site. And I don't > mean that he just looked at it from a distance! > > On another topic: > Does anyone know why the D-21 drones are radioactive? I took readings of up > to 0.4 mR/Hr. on the upper surface of the aft section of a D-21B. That is > about ten times the natural background radiation. Since the reading remains > strong only within a few inches of the surface, it appears to be emitting > alpha particles. > > Peter W. Merlin > THE X-HUNTERS > Aerospace Archeology Team > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:48:49 -0500 From: John Stone Subject: On recent AF News...... Saw this in the latest AF News, thought everyone might be interested! 980008. 'Dangerous Skies' portrays life in Air Force WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Airmen on duty in the United States and around the world are the stars in "Dangerous Skies: Inside the U.S. Air Force." The two-hour special presentation debuts at 8 p.m. EST, Jan. 11, on the Arts and Entertainment Network. Filmed from February through June 1997, the program looks at the Air Force from the inside, trying to get a sense of what it feels like to be in Air Force squadrons, especially when airmen are separated from families. A&E also interviewed family members. Bill Kurtis hosts the program with close-up looks at two fighter squadrons: the Lightning Lancers, an F-16 combat squadron in Saudi Arabia, as it flies patrols over Southern Iraq, and the White Knights, an A-10 combat squadron, as it practices war games inside the United States. "Dangerous Skies" also lives with the pilots of a stealth fighter squadron in New Mexico and a helicopter rescue squadron who are prepared to rescue downed pilots deep inside enemy territory. Viewers can see the pilots at home, during training and on combat missions. Cameras follow an F-16 Fighting Falcon to the border with Iraq and show an A-10 Thunderbolt in a dogfight high above the Mojave Desert. The guides on this two-hour airborne adventure are 16 flyers and fighters who share their views, feelings and fears as they patrol dangerous skies around the world. The program will be repeated Jan. 17 and 24 at 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. EST both days. Sorry for the non-skunky content. Best, John John Stone jstone@thepoint.net U-2 and SR-71 Web page: http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 07:03:29 +1100 (EST) From: legion@mira.net Subject: Project 'Moby Dick' - Sources, Please Greetings All; (Due to some problems with my ISP, this may be a re-post. Apologies if this the case.) Some time ago someone kindly posted a great deal of information to the list about Project 'Moby Dick', the CIA/Navy developed balloon spy camera platform. Due to the sudden and catastrophic failure of my Zip drive -- just two weeks out of warranty! -- I've lost all of those messages. If the original poster could please contact me or let me know which of the Skunk-works' digests contains the details of the Moby Dick/Skyhook articles, I'd greatly appreciate it. Happy New Year to all listmembers. Many thanks, John "Please Don't Call Me Ishmael." - -- PROJECT 1947 | E-Mail: http://www.iufog.org/project1947/ | legion@mira.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Jan 1998 07:46:18 -0500 From: Tom Robison Subject: A&E Special 'Dangerous Skies' portrays life in Air Force WASHINGTON (AFNS) -- Airmen on duty in the United States and around the world are the stars in "Dangerous Skies: Inside the U.S. Air Force." The two-hour special presentation debuts at 8 p.m. EST, Jan. 11, on the Arts and Entertainment Network. Filmed from February through June 1997, the program looks at the Air Force from the inside, trying to get a sense of what it feels like to be in Air Force squadrons, especially when airmen are separated from families. A&E also interviewed family members. Bill Kurtis hosts the program with close-up looks at two fighter squadrons: the Lightning Lancers, an F-16 combat squadron in Saudi Arabia, as it flies patrols over Southern Iraq, and the White Knights, an A-10 combat squadron, as it practices war games inside the United States. "Dangerous Skies" also lives with the pilots of a stealth fighter squadron in New Mexico and a helicopter rescue squadron who are prepared to rescue downed pilots deep inside enemy territory. Viewers can see the pilots at home, during training and on combat missions. Cameras follow an F-16 Fighting Falcon to the border with Iraq and show an A-10 Thunderbolt in a dogfight high above the Mojave Desert. The guides on this two-hour airborne adventure are 16 flyers and fighters who share their views, feelings and fears as they patrol dangerous skies around the world. The program will be repeated Jan. 17 and 24 at 9 p.m. and 1 a.m. EST both days. Tom Robison, tcrobi@most.fw.hac.com Airborne Communications Systems, Raytheon Systems Co., 1010 Production Rd. Fort Wayne, IN 46808 (219) 429-5589 Any opinions expressed herein are mine alone, and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my current employer. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 13:33:49 +0000 From: "Stephen O'Brien" <11506@aquinas.ac.uk> Subject: E-mail problems In the above messages from me, DON'T reply to 11419@aquinas.ac.uk : I've been having a problem with my E-mail. Sorry about that. Stephen O'Brien, Manchester, England ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V7 #1 ******************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "skunk-works-digest-request@netwrx1.com". 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