From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V7 #50 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Thursday, August 20 1998 Volume 07 : Number 050 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: TR-3 Re: Re: A-11 at Palmdale Re: Re: A-11 at Palmdale Re: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? Since the list is a little slow :) Re: TR-3 RE: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? RE: Re: A-11 at Palmdale Re: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel A-11 v. A-12 Re: Global Hawk RE: Global Hawk - SR-71 in a fraction of time Re: Global Hawk - SR-71 in a fraction of time RE: A-11 v. A-12 Re: Since the list is a little slow :) RE: A-11 v. A-12 Re: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? Re: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel RE: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:44:09 EDT From: MELUMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: TR-3 Well - which is it??? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:13:05 EDT From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: A-11 at Palmdale To whoever you are: You're into an area that I studied with great intensity during my many weeks of work and research on Skunk Works, The Secret History. I was privileged to see most, if not all of the pertinent documents leading up to the birth of the A-12...and believe me when I tell you that the A-11 designation was no where to be seen. No matter what you heard, and no matter what anyone told you, the A-11 designation was just one of the many design study families leading up to the final one chosen. I know, because I reviewed the various A-11 studies with considerable intensity. Brian Schul's ignorance of the history of the airplane is not his fault...and not yours to pass on. Brian visited me on several occasions and was quick to admit that reference to the airplane as the A-11 was strictly a result of the original announcement made by President Johnson. Additionally, and importantly, Johnson's announcement pertained only to the YF-12A...and thus the aircraft originally referred to as the A-11 was technically the three-off interceptor derivative of the A-12...and not the A-12 itself. Finally, I can tell you that I held in my hand "Kelly" Johnson's original hand-written notes on his discussions with President Johnson pertaining to the official release of information about the A-12 and YF-12A...and it was "Kelly" who proposed the use of the never-used A-11 designator as a cover for the program. So, to come full circle, let me assure you that Peter Merlin's comments are not only totally on the mark, they are unassailably accurate. Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:14:01 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Re: A-11 at Palmdale At 06:13 PM 8/19/98 EDT, you wrote: >To whoever you are: > >You're into an area that I studied with great intensity during my many weeks >of work and research on Skunk Works, The Secret History. I was privileged to >see most, if not all of the pertinent documents leading up to the birth of the >A-12...and believe me when I tell you that the A-11 designation was no where >to be seen. No matter what you heard, and no matter what anyone told you, the >A-11 designation was just one of the many design study families leading up to >the final one chosen. I know, because I reviewed the various A-11 studies with >considerable intensity. > >Jay Miller > That is the reason I asked the question in the first place. I ran across those listings in the latest inventory posted as a FIA from DM. The A00011 designation. location and the serial #'s are snipped right of the listings... Thanks again Jay John Szalay Louisville Ky ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:23:45 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? At 08:19 AM 8/19/98, you wrote: >>patrick cullumber writes: > >>There is no TR-3A. It is a bogus invention of writers of black airplane >>fiction. And even in their writings it is totally unrelated to the F-117. > >With respect, it's hard to see how you can be so certain that this platform >is 'bogus.' > >If the TR-3A offered LO recon. and/or laser designator capabilties, I can't >imagine a commander who wouldn't welcome it with open arms. > >D > > Well Theres MacPeak or Mcpeak or whatever his name is/was. "If It don,t shoot bullets or drop bombs, I don,t want it!" (Whatever his name is/was) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 00:46:52 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Since the list is a little slow :) Why a special tank/farm for the U-2 ? - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Base fuels takes on new mission Released: 19 Aug 1998 by Senior Airman Amy Ferdig 31st FW Public Affairs AVIANO AIR BASE, Italy (AFNS) -- Delivering peace, one gallon at a time is its mission. For the 31st Supply Squadron Fuel Support Element, that mission has taken on a new twist -- refueling the U-2 Dragonlady reconnaissance plane. The unit had to find a way to store the additional fuel needed to support the mission, and the viable solution was to build a new temporary storage facility. The facility holds three fuel bladders with a maximum capacity of 50,000 gallons of fuel in each one, and according to Tech. Sgt. William Maus, who designed the new facility, "They kind of look like big water beds. "The last time we built a fuel storage facility was 1992, when the U-2 last came here," Maus said. "This new facility was designed and constructed for a temporary mission, but is a lot safer and more permanent than the last one. Although we only plan on using it for two months, we've built it to last." All parts of the storage facility can be used again, Maus said. "It can be broken down 100 percent and put in storage for future use." Fuels people built the facility with help from the 31st Civil Engineer Squadron on a sand-bed foundation, in just 10 days at a cost of about $50,000. The new facility is just another part of their mission, Maus said. "Anytime, anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel." (Courtesy of U.S. Air Forces in Europe News Service) AFNS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 18:00:34 -0700 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: TR-3 >Re; The TR-3A and whether it exists etc. > >Let's see now, there is a Tier-1, and there is a TR-1. >And there is a Tier-3, so there must be a TR-3. > >....or maybe it kinda sounds like that to an evesdropper. > >Wayne > >Wayne Busse >wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us >wings@sky.net Which is covered on my tier II and TR-3 web pages :) There was never anything to confirm that the "TR-3" might be a recce aircraft- in fact, the THAP study it supposedly emerged from was for a strike a/c. What's in a name, anyway? Dan _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ It's not how fast your computer is, it's not who makes it, it's not wether you're "wired". It's what you *do* with it, how you change the world with it, that matters. _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:27:08 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: RE: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D5F276A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is a reference from Ben Rich's book made by some high rank General. Can't remember his name, can't get to my book, sorry. - ---------- From: John Szalay[SMTP:john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 8:23 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? At 08:19 AM 8/19/98, you wrote: >>patrick cullumber writes: > >>There is no TR-3A. It is a bogus invention of writers of black airplane >>fiction. And even in their writings it is totally unrelated to the F-117. > >With respect, it's hard to see how you can be so certain that this platform >is 'bogus.' > >If the TR-3A offered LO recon. and/or laser designator capabilties, I can't >imagine a commander who wouldn't welcome it with open arms. > >D > > Well Theres MacPeak or Mcpeak or whatever his name is/was. "If It don,t shoot bullets or drop bombs, I don,t want it!" 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Hey Jay, I would sure like to have more of your input and personal = experiences with Skunk Works posted here. That's what this digest is all = about, news, insight, information, and even speculation for spice. - -Martin - ---------- From: JNiessen@aol.com[SMTP:JNiessen@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 6:13 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Re: A-11 at Palmdale To whoever you are: You're into an area that I studied with great intensity during my many = weeks of work and research on Skunk Works, The Secret History. I was = privileged to see most, if not all of the pertinent documents leading up to the birth = of the A-12... - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D1F41FE0 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IgkBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABza3Vuay13b3Jrc0BuZXR3cngxLmNvbQBTTVRQAHNrdW5rLXdvcmtzQG5ldHdyeDEu Y29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAc2t1bmstd29ya3NAbmV0d3J4 MS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAGgAAACdza3Vuay13b3Jrc0BuZXR3cngxLmNv bScAAAACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOlNLVU5LLVdPUktTQE5FVFdSWDEuQ09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADATsBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEAGQAAAFJFOiBSZTogQS0xMSBhdCBQYWxtZGFsZQAHBwEFgAMADgAAAM4HCAATABUA FwAtAAMATAEBIIADAA4AAADOBwgAEwAVABMANQADAFABAQmAAQAhAAAAQTRBMDE2NDRBOTM3RDIx MTk2QTJEMDhEMDRDMTAwMDAA2wYBA5AGALQEAAASAAAACwAjAAEAAAADACYAAAAAAAsAKQABAAAA AwA2AAAAAABAADkAgM7PLNnLvQEeAHAAAQAAABkAAABSRTogUmU6IEEtMTEgYXQgUGFsbWRhbGUA AAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAb3L2Sy/RBagpTepEdKWotCNBMEAAAAAHgAeDAEAAAAFAAAAU01UUAAA AAAeAB8MAQAAABYAAABtYXJ0aW5oQGl4Lm5ldGNvbS5jb20AAAADAAYQnZ5rtQMABxAtAgAAHgAI EAEAAABlAAAAQ0FOVEFSR1VFV0lUSFRIQVRBTkQvT1JET05URVZFTldBTlRUT0hFWUpBWSxJV09V TERTVVJFTElLRVRPSEFWRU1PUkVPRllPVVJJTlBVVEFORFBFUlNPTkFMRVhQRVJJRU5DRQAAAAAC AQkQAQAAADQDAAAwAwAAUgUAAExaRnUKgzO9/wAKAQ8CFQKoBesCgwBQAvIJAgBjaArAc2V0MjcG AAbDAoMyA8UCAHByQnER4nN0ZW0CgzN3AuQHEwKAfQqACM8J2TvxFg8yNTUCgAqBDbELYOBuZzEw MxRQCwoUUaUL8mMAQCBDAHAnBUAVCsBnClAgA/B0aCBFG9BhGzFuZC8FsWTzAiAbIWV2CfAboABw BUBwdG8gIR3xCoUKhUgAZXkgSmF5LCCGSRugCGBsZCBzCHDxG5BsaWsbkB3BEYAdMIYgBGAgQW9m IHkIYZIgC4BwdRwzIHAEkG5zAiAHQB0QeCKxCJBuBmMHkRuzU2t1bmuUIFcFsGsEIHBvE8GFIABo BJBlLiBUHBE+JyPhHBIb0AQAHLBpZ38HkAVAJsEHQAMgAaAIYHR1H4BuB9BzH4ALgACQZy5oKBEL gAIQcgDAdGmvAiAfgCJyHSNzIrBjH+CtKZMgKVEqgWkjwC4ePOwtTQrAKaBuHjwK9CBwCDE4MALR aS0xNJ40DfAM0C8jC1kxNgqg6wNgE9BjBUAtMUcKhy/76wwwMMZGA2E6Mk4wxgyCnR9ATgiQBBAJ 8EBhBvACLgWgbVtTTVRQ+jo2Dl0x7zL9BmACMDQvTTU7VwmAKEBzZB9iQWZ1G3AnMTE5H4A9sDkA OCA2OjEzIFBmTTh/Mv1Ubzq/NTtzLSRiLR/AJNFAKEB0dx5yL4A2wj6/OY51YmpnMQFA3zU7UmVG kEhjQVcvEBrQHCFQB0BtPPBs5mUtTy5TMzYvxxpFQDj9JkFvHSEFwCHBG0FIgB48+lkIYCcgQQuA HcEDkU3x7mEb9B+gE8B1JvAlURuzXwnBHCFPgQnwAJB0HzBkvwhxGRAhMB8wA4EfMHcJ4P8k4AqF IZFDEiJjFhARsArA/xFwIYADoCRZH4Al4BuQBmCfBQARwB8ABAAdwHJ5JcCtH6FhJPEFEHYDEGUn EP8gAB3ACoURsCEiE8AogSGg/m4w4CeDIZEb0BuQIrEtEX86gRyxKsAHgAIwBCBJ4GEzJvBS0XVw HbJa8mJpnwAgVXFa0wqFSQEyLl8ALwqPS+8elhUxAGIQAwAQEAAAAAADABEQAwAAAEAABzBgwEKi 2Mu9AUAACDBgwEKi2Mu9AR4APQABAAAABQAAAFJFOiAAAAAA9FI= - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D1F41FE0-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 21:31:15 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: Re: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D905D120 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Got to be able to deploy anywhere, anytime ... I quess. - ---------- From: John Szalay[SMTP:john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net] Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 1998 8:46 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Since the list is a little slow :) Why a special tank/farm for the U-2 ? - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Base fuels takes on new mission Released: 19 Aug 1998 by Senior Airman Amy Ferdig 31st FW Public Affairs AVIANO AIR BASE, Italy (AFNS) -- Delivering peace, one gallon at a time is its mission. For the 31st Supply Squadron Fuel Support Element, that mission has taken on a new twist -- refueling the U-2 Dragonlady reconnaissance plane. - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D905D120 Content-Type: application/ms-tnef Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 eJ8+IhUBAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAENgAQAAgAAAAIAAgABBJAG ADABAAABAAAADAAAAAMAADADAAAACwAPDgAAAAACAf8PAQAAAE0AAAAAAAAAgSsfpL6jEBmdbgDd AQ9UAgAAAABza3Vuay13b3Jrc0BuZXR3cngxLmNvbQBTTVRQAHNrdW5rLXdvcmtzQG5ldHdyeDEu Y29tAAAAAB4AAjABAAAABQAAAFNNVFAAAAAAHgADMAEAAAAYAAAAc2t1bmstd29ya3NAbmV0d3J4 MS5jb20AAwAVDAEAAAADAP4PBgAAAB4AATABAAAAGgAAACdza3Vuay13b3Jrc0BuZXR3cngxLmNv bScAAAACAQswAQAAAB0AAABTTVRQOlNLVU5LLVdPUktTQE5FVFdSWDEuQ09NAAAAAAMAADkAAAAA CwBAOgEAAAACAfYPAQAAAAQAAAAAAAADATsBCIAHABgAAABJUE0uTWljcm9zb2Z0IE1haWwuTm90 ZQAxCAEEgAEAOAAAAFJlOiBBbnl0aW1lLGFueXdoZXJlLCB3ZSBnaXZlIGZ1ZWwsIGdhc29saW5l IGFuZCBkaWVzZWwAvRMBBYADAA4AAADOBwgAEwAVAB8ADwADADYBASCAAwAOAAAAzgcIABMAFQAc ADAAAwBUAQEJgAEAIQAAAEFDQTAxNjQ0QTkzN0QyMTE5NkEyRDA4RDA0QzEwMDAwAOoGAQOQBgDE BAAAEgAAAAsAIwABAAAAAwAmAAAAAAALACkAAQAAAAMANgAAAAAAQAA5AIBbCDnay70BHgBwAAEA AAA4AAAAUmU6IEFueXRpbWUsYW55d2hlcmUsIHdlIGdpdmUgZnVlbCwgZ2Fzb2xpbmUgYW5kIGRp ZXNlbAACAXEAAQAAABYAAAABvcvaOQBEFqCtN6kR0pai0I0EwQAAAAAeAB4MAQAAAAUAAABTTVRQ AAAAAB4AHwwBAAAAFgAAAG1hcnRpbmhAaXgubmV0Y29tLmNvbQAAAAMABhC1iaRoAwAHED4CAAAe AAgQAQAAAGUAAABHT1RUT0JFQUJMRVRPREVQTE9ZQU5ZV0hFUkUsQU5ZVElNRUlRVUVTUy0tLS0t LS0tLS1GUk9NOkpPSE5TWkFMQVlTTVRQOkpPSE5TWkFMQVlAUE9TVE9GRklDRVdPUkxETkVUAAAA AAIBCRABAAAAJQMAACEDAACWBQAATFpGdZcnLQT/AAoBDwIVAqgF6wKDAFAC8gkCAGNoCsBzZXQy NwYABsMCgzIDxQIAcHJCcRHic3RlbQKDM3cC5AcTAoB9CoAIzwnZO/EWDzI1NQKACoENsQtg4G5n MTAzFFALChRRRQvyYwBAIEdvBUB0oG8gYmUgAaBsG3AnGzENsAtQb3kbgG55pHdoBJBlLBxydAdx jCAuHaAKhUkgcQpQBwQQHcYKi2xpMTgwwQLRaS0xNDQN8AzQcyCjC1kxNgqgA2AT0GN9BUAtIscK hyF7DDAiRkYdA2E6I84iRgyCIEpvEmgDoFN6B0BheVtAU01UUDpqJ5EuonMn40BwbxPAbw3QIGlj ZS53BbBsZFJuEcAuYQJALipRXb8jbyR9BmACMCWvJrtXCYAZKlBzZCgQHQBBdWdidRPAIDE5HQAw UDkAOCA4OjQ2IFBmTSsfJH1Uby1fJrtzIGt1bmstKgFrc1JAKlF3ciEALgWgbeMxXywudWJqIoEz fya73lMLgCnQGyAcwCAgADAh3wQAG4A7oQJAG7FzFaAH4JggOikezx/TMzYhR7MaRSJGV2gcYTVA cAWQRwcxGyAAcGsvZgrAbU89AAIQBcA7clUtEeA/Pz1MIshEH0UvRj8i/EJhtxGwQcAKUGwEIAGQ aweRrQIgICpQB+BtBAFpSUGvCoVKn0uvTK1SSKBlSEG+ZDkwMFAv0jCDCoViHGBnLRFJ8AXAQWlB kAORQYptHGBGBJBkaWcKheQzMTAhRlcxIDjQIAB+YxSwDdALcBGgHyYKhUEgVklBTk8UsElSUUgg QVNFHQBJAZBsgRxgKEFGTlMpIrFkIERIoGl2BnEZECDfQLAA0BzxAiAbcGcHQBWg/wOgKpA8IR1T BAAKhTxgBCC9SbUuJVBB5VGTOMBwC1CzT4EeYGFkA2ADoEZIkfNagxWxIEUbsAeAAjAdAP87cFfB SbUKhRGASMQDoFeS/0ljNjA7wlXBFhBIglZiQhawRHJhZwIgC2BkHGDzFhAFoG5uC3AEEABwO0H/ C1EqUFmgPb8+zyJVCoUVMQIAZlAAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERABAAAAQAAHMKA4IuHZy70BQAAIMKA4 IuHZy70BHgA9AAEAAAAFAAAAUmU6IAAAAAD3UQ== - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDCBB8.D905D120-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:25:50 -0700 From: "Paul A. Suhler" Subject: A-11 v. A-12 From Jay Miller's "Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works: The Official History," pg. 122: "Plans going forward for surfacing of the AF-12 program. I worked on the draft to be used by President Johnson and proposed the terminology 'A-11' as it was the non-anti-radar version." This appears to be a quotation from Kelly Johnson's "Archangel Log." So, "A-11" was intentionally used as disinformation. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 98 04:53:23 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Global Hawk Actually, they'll probably usually fly these across in the belly of a C-5. They probably wouldn't want to risk flying these through the weather you get mid-Atlantic and mid-Pacific. Besides, you've also got to get all their ground support and control equipment over to where you plan to use them anyway, so there's really not much point in flying them there, even if you could. Might as well air-transport them there and them send them up as targets. The range is more a measure of endurance rather than how far you can fly them in from. For example, one of the stats published sites that Global Hawk can remain aloft for 25 hours to image a given area. Of course, the SR-71 (you knew I'd do this didn't you?) would be able to multi-sensor image the same area in 33 minutes. Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:55:32 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: RE: Global Hawk - SR-71 in a fraction of time Go Art Go !!!!! > Of course, the SR-71 (you knew I'd do this didn't you?) > would be able to multi-sensor image the same area in 33 > minutes. I'm with you all the way. The Blackbird has been a "Global Hawk" for almost 30 years, in fractions of the time. Especially if they were able to fully the develop the real-time transmission from 'bird to battle ground commanders - another grave error of the Airfarce for grounding it. > -----Original Message----- > From: betnal@ns.net [SMTP:betnal@ns.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 12:53 AM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: Global Hawk > ... The range is more a measure of endurance rather than how far you can fly them > in from. For example, one of the stats published sites that Global > Hawk can > remain aloft for 25 hours to image a given area. Of course, the SR-71 > (you knew > I'd do this didn't you?) would be able to multi-sensor image the same > area in 33 > minutes. > > > > Art ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:29:23 +0100 (BST) From: s.barber@xpedite.co.uk (Steven Barber) Subject: Re: Global Hawk - SR-71 in a fraction of time I feel I'm responding to a troll but ... Our beloved Blackbird may be able to cover the ground in a fraction of the time taken by Global Hawk but surely the Hawk is designed to loiter over the target and provide continous real-time covert intelligence (sorry, that should read 'data' ), something that is impossible for the Blackbird. They might not be able to shoot an SR71 down but, by God, they know when one is up there! Steve ~ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:11:08 -0700 From: "Erik Hoel" Subject: RE: A-11 v. A-12 Paul A. Suhler wrote: > From Jay Miller's "Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works: The Official > History," pg. 122: > > "Plans going forward for surfacing of the AF-12 program. I > worked on the draft to be used by President Johnson and > proposed the terminology 'A-11' as it was the non-anti-radar version." > > This appears to be a quotation from Kelly Johnson's "Archangel Log." > > So, "A-11" was intentionally used as disinformation. Here's a silly question - where did the name "Archangel" come from? From my dictionary, the term was used by Milton to describe the chief angel in the celestial hierarchy. I guess this metaphor could apply... Erik - -- Erik Hoel mailto:ehoel@esri.com Environmental Systems Research Institute http://www.esri.com 380 New York Street 909-793-2853 (x1-1548) tel Redlands, CA 92373-8100 909-307-3067 fax ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 09:43:39 -0600 From: Brad Hitch Subject: Re: Since the list is a little slow :) John Szalay wrote: > > Why a special tank/farm for the U-2 ? > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Base fuels takes on new mission > Released: 19 Aug 1998 > by Senior Airman Amy Ferdig > 31st FW Public Affairs > > AVIANO AIR BASE, Italy (AFNS) -- Delivering peace, one gallon at a time is > its mission. For the 31st Supply Squadron Fuel Support Element, that mission > has taken on a new twist -- refueling the U-2 Dragonlady reconnaissance plane. > > The unit had to find a way to store the additional fuel needed to support > the mission, and the viable solution was to build a new temporary storage > facility. > Because the U-2 uses JPTS (Jet Propellant - Thermally Stable) which was developed in the 1950's. It is highly refined to have low freeze point, low vapor pressure to limit boil-off losses at high altitude (tanks are vented to atm.), and to have good storage stability since it originally needed to be shipped by sea to U-2 bases in Turkey and elsewhere, which takes a while. Originally the plane flew on LF-1 (charcoal Lighter Fluid 1) until a specification was written for JPTS by Capt. Charles Hudson (Mil-F-25524). See "Military Jet Fuels, 1944 - 1987" by Charles Martel, Aero Propulsion Lab, Wright-Patterson AFB Report AFWAL-TR-87-2062. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 11:54:41 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: RE: A-11 v. A-12 Ben Rich explains that on the video "SR-71 The Secret Vigil". The U-2 was the angel because it fly higher than anything at its time. The SR-71, the successor to the U-2, was called the Archangel because it flew higher, faster, than the U-2. That's all. - -Martin - --------------------------- - -Martin Hurst wk: (216) 360-4404 > -----Original Message----- > From: Erik Hoel [SMTP:ehoel@esri.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 11:11 AM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: RE: A-11 v. A-12 > > Paul A. Suhler wrote: > > > From Jay Miller's "Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works: The Official > > History," pg. 122: > > > > Here's a silly question - where did the name "Archangel" come from? > From my > dictionary, the term was used by Milton to describe the chief angel in > the > celestial hierarchy. I guess this metaphor could apply... > > Erik > -- > Erik Hoel mailto:ehoel@esri.com > Environmental Systems Research Institute http://www.esri.com > 380 New York Street 909-793-2853 (x1-1548) tel > Redlands, CA 92373-8100 909-307-3067 fax ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 18:07:35 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: Skunk Works Digest, What's Next ??? John Szalay writes >At 08:19 AM 8/19/98, I wrote: >>>patrick cullumber writes: >> >>>There is no TR-3A. It is a bogus invention of writers of black airplane >>>fiction. And even in their writings it is totally unrelated to the F-117. >> >>With respect, it's hard to see how you can be so certain that this platform >>is 'bogus.' >> >>If the TR-3A offered LO recon. and/or laser designator capabilties, I can't >>imagine a commander who wouldn't welcome it with open arms. >> >>D > Well Theres MacPeak or Mcpeak or whatever his name is/was. > >"If It don,t shoot bullets or drop bombs, I don,t want it!" > (Whatever his name is/was) He's so famous even you can't remember his name John..that more or less proves my point :) I assume he didn't have much time for the A-12, U-2 or SR-71. Hmmm...I'll have to think about that. But seriously, why do you suppose so many people are convinced that a classified LO recon. a/c is such a fanciful notion ? Taking the Skunk Works as just one example, the folks there haven't been playing cards or resting on their laurels since the F-117s were built. Sure they've been upgrading TRs and some will have been working on X-33, could some have been working on next generation a/c ? - you can bet on it :) A low cost (relative to the SR-71) LO recon. a/c sounds like a very desirable asset (MacPeak or McPeak notwithstanding). ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 20:13:02 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel At 09:31 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: >Got to be able to deploy anywhere, anytime ... >I quess. > > >Why a special tank/farm for the U-2 ? > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Base fuels takes on new mission > My point being, why does the U-2 require a separate supply, something different from the supply of anything else flying from this base? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 16:43:38 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: RE: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel Most likely can't be "like" any other fuel because of the very high altitude the U-2 gets up to, boil-point, vapor-point, etc. I'm not an expert by any means, just my opinion. - -Martin - --------------------------- - -Martin Hurst wk: (216) 360-4404 > -----Original Message----- > From: John Szalay [SMTP:john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 20, 1998 4:13 PM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: Anytime,anywhere, we give fuel, gasoline and diesel > > At 09:31 PM 8/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >Got to be able to deploy anywhere, anytime ... > >I quess. > > > > > >Why a special tank/farm for the U-2 ? > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Base fuels takes on new mission > > > > My point being, why does the U-2 require a separate supply, something > different from the supply of anything else flying from this base? ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V7 #50 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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