From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V7 #70 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Sunday, October 18 1998 Volume 07 : Number 070 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Who found Groom Re: Aerodynamics Question Re: Who found Groom Re: Aerodynamics Question Re: Aerodynamics Question Re: Re: Who found Groom F-117 "sustainment" cost Re: TLC High Power Lasers TV Show Re: F-117 "sustainment" cost RE: F-117 "sustainment" costs SR 71 Cancellation and Congressperson Re: Aerodynamics Question Re: Aerodynamics Question Blackbird t-shirts? New? analysis of black aircraft projects Re: New? analysis of black aircraft projects Test message [Fwd: [MilCom] New TV Program on U2 Aircraft] Photos of first refueling of an F-22 Raptor Stealth verification kit Apologies... SR-71 update Bye Bye Birdie ||:\( *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:24:02 EDT From: Xelex@aol.com Subject: Re: Who found Groom On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 18:46:49 -0600, Brent Clark >forwarded a message from Chris Pocock, according >to which Groom Lake was "discovered" by Col. Ozzie Ritland, >Richard Bissell, Tony LeVier and Kelly Johnson. J. Pharabod writes: >But it's not the story told by LeVier himself. >LeVier said that those who "discovered" Groom >Lake were Tony LeVier himself and Dorsey >Kammerer. >Who is right? Pocock, and Curtis Peebles in Dark Eagles, both give the historically accurate version that Ritland was the one who first recommended Groom Lake. Ritland's version of the story is taken from a 1974 U. S. Air Force interview of Ritland himself, but it is also supported by Kelly Johnson's personal log. Johnson was originally opposed to using Groom Lake because it would double the construction costs. Pete ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:16:32 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: Aerodynamics Question Tony Craddock wrote@ >Anyone know if this is actually true? > >Replies privately, I guess. > >Thanks > >Tony Craddock > >************ > >Next fall when you see geese heading south for >the winter flying along in a "V" formation, you might be interested in >knowing what science has discovered about why they fly that way. >It has been learned that when a lead bird flaps its wings, it creates an >uplift for >the bird immediately following. By flying in a "V" formation, the whole >flock adds at least 71% greater flying range than if each bird flew on >its own. Solar powered, robotic aircraft flying in close formation like geese were under development by Prof. Jason Speyer of UCLA a while back under the Solar Powered Formation Flight (SPFF) project I'm not certain of its current status. The idea was to use them as long endurance, atmospheric comm. sats. The UAVs were built in conjunction with Rockwell International and NASA. I seem to remember a first flight took place @ DFRC no less ! Prof. Speyer told me something to this effect: When geese fly in formation, each bird takes advantage of the upwash coming from the bird in front to reduce its workload....they actually perform much like a single larger wing. So the strongest birds take turns to fly in pole position, because they don't get the benefit of the upwash. That's without checking my notes, but it's in the ballpark. Hope this helps Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 10:46:42 +0200 (METDST) From: pharabod@in2p3.fr Subject: Re: Who found Groom > Pocock, and Curtis Peebles in Dark Eagles, > both give the historically accurate version > that Ritland was the one who first recommended > Groom Lake. Ritland's version of the story is > taken from a 1974 U.S. Air Force interview of > Ritland himself, but it is also supported by > Kelly Johnson's personal log. > Pete (Tue, 6 Oct 1998 22:24:02 EDT) Thanks for the info. So it's likely that Ritland recommended Groom Lake. But is it sure that the first flight to Groom Lake (pilot Tony LeVier) included people as important as Kelly Johnson and Richard Bissell, who probably had no much time? And why is there no mention of Dorsey Kammerer, who surely was the right man to decide if the place was OK, since he was in charge of the transport of the Skunk Works material? The fact that Tony LeVier said Dorsey Kammerer was in the plane adds credibility to his version. J. Pharabod ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 09:36:15 -0600 From: Brad Hitch Subject: Re: Aerodynamics Question A.J. Craddock wrote: > > Anyone know if this is actually true? > > Replies privately, I guess. > > Thanks > > Tony Craddock > > ************ > > Next fall when you see geese heading south for > the winter flying along in a "V" formation, you might be interested in > knowing what science has discovered about why they fly that way. > It has been learned that when a lead bird flaps its wings, it creates an > uplift for > the bird immediately following. By flying in a "V" formation, the whole > flock adds at least 71% greater flying range than if each bird flew on > its own. Yes, its true. Wingtip vortices create an updraft for the bird immediately behind and to the side. This vortex is caused by higher pressure air on the underside of the wing escaping around the end of the wing toward the low pressure region on top. So, do you know why one side of the "V" is longer than the other? Answer: There's more birds on that side. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 12:17:55 EDT From: MELUMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Aerodynamics Question In a message dated 98-10-07 11:42:16 EDT, Brad Hitch answers Tony, who wrote: <<< This vortex is caused by higher > This is not correct. Ornithologists have long suspected that geese have superior depth perception in the LEFT eye. Check it out - the Right arm of the "V" is usually the longer arm. meluman ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 14:22:04 EDT From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Who found Groom Hey guys, Thanks for including me in the loop on this. I haven't pulled my old copies of Kelly's logs out of the files to check, but if my memory is even partially intact, I can assure you of several things...no matter what Ritland says: Kelly and Dick were with Tony when he made the flight...and Tony is almost certainly the one who first discovered Groom. I interviewed Tony many years ago (1983) for over an hour and we went over the Groom Lake discovery question in great detail. Tony remember many fine bits of trivia about the event...including the fact that he had difficulty landing the Bonanza (if I remember correctly) because of all the crap on the dry lakebed in the way of tin cans and leftover hardware from WWII training events. Tony also gave me a detailed account of why he recommended Groom and how he convinced Kelly to take a look at it. I have a strong recollection that Kelly's logs back Tony's claims...contrary to what Ritland says. Again, I'll pull these as soon as I have time to dig them out. All the best, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 17:25:21 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: F-117 "sustainment" cost >From a recent posting on the Defense Link site: Lockheed Martin Corp., Palmdale, Calif., is being awarded a $2,054,514,067 cost-plus-incentive-fee contract to provide for FY 1999-2006 sustainment support for the F-117 aircraft. This effort includes logistics support, sustainment engineering, material management, technical data, and depot repair. There was one firm solicited and one proposal received. Expected contract completion date is Sept. 30, 2006. Solicitation issue date was Oct. 30, 1997. Negotiation completion date was Sept. 16, 1998. Sacramento Air Logistics Center, McClellan AFB, Calif., is the contracting activity (F33657-98-D-0117). ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 23:49:00 -0400 From: jeffhclark@juno.com Subject: Re: TLC High Power Lasers TV Show On Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:30:41 -0700 Larry Smith writes: > >Did anybody else see the TLC show on last night about High >Power Lasers? I missed it, but I searched through the Discovery channel web page, and the laser show will be shown again on October 11 at 5:00 pm. Sounds pretty neat. ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 00:47:02 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: F-117 "sustainment" cost At 05:25 PM 10/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >>From a recent posting on the Defense Link site: > >Lockheed Martin Corp., Palmdale, Calif., is being awarded a $2,054,514,067 >cost-plus-incentive-fee contract to provide for FY 1999-2006 sustainment >support for the F-117 aircraft. This effort includes logistics support, >sustainment engineering, material management, technical data, and depot >repair. There was one firm solicited and one proposal received. Expected >contract completion date is Sept. 30, 2006. Solicitation issue date was Oct. >30, 1997. Negotiation completion date was Sept. 16, 1998. Sacramento Air >Logistics Center, McClellan AFB, Calif., is the contracting activity >(F33657-98-D-0117). > =========-=========-=========-=========-========== This goes back to the base realignment and closure effort. There were two Air Logistics Centers that were closed. Guess who got the other contract for 4 engined airplanes.......Boeing. Lockheed was really the only choice as they were providing much support to the ALC at McClellan where all the major overhaul work is done on F-117's. They still provide technicians at Holloman to support maintenance and constant upgrades to the aircraft. Actually up until recently, Lockheed had contracts to maintain all the F-4's flown by the German Air Force at HO, the T-38's piloted by Chinese Nationalists in their training squadron and all the T-38's assigned to Holloman and flown by 117 pilots. The only thing they didn't work on were the Blackhawk helo's in the Air Rescue Squadron there. (did I mention they maintained and flew the QF-106's too?) I think they are in it for the money. patrick cullumber ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Oct 1998 14:11:13 -0700 From: patrick Subject: RE: F-117 "sustainment" costs Maybe the award to LADC for F-117 support makes sense after reading this: WASHINGTON (AFPN) -- The Air Force announced Oct. 9 it has awarded the Sacramento Air Logistics Center depot competition workload at McClellan Air Force Base, Calif., to Ogden Air Logistics Center, Hill AFB, Utah. This award is valued at $1,579.8 million and saves taxpayers $638 million over the nine years of contract performance. Ogden ALC will perform the hydraulics, electrical accessories, instruments/electronics, backshops and A-10 workloads at Hill. Boeing will perform the KC-135 workload at the Boeing Aerospace Support Center at former Kelly AFB, Texas, maintenance facilities. The General Accounting Office had recently recommended that the Air Force cancel the Sacramento ALC depot maintenance solicitation, unbundle the workload, and re-solicit the requirements. It is rare for the Department of Defense not to implement GAO's recommendations in a bid protest decision, say officials. However, in this case, after a deliberate review of the GAO recommendations, consideration of the risk to Air Force readiness, and taking into account the savings generated in response to the solicitation, the Air Force has determined that it must proceed with contract award to Ogden ALC. The decision to proceed with award to the Ogden ALC was based primarily on readiness concerns. Implementation of the GAO recommendations would require a delay in award of at least one year and then impose multiple transitions of the Sacramento ALC workload which would severely harm Air Force readiness, according to officials. The Air Force determined that this would create significant turmoil and inefficiencies, which would cause the risk to readiness to rise unacceptably at a time when the KC-135 fleet is already below approved wartime standards. Similarly, commodities are crucial to the Air Force's ability to execute the national military strategy, and a stable and responsive repair source for these commodities is a critical readiness issue. The risk associated with unbundling the commodity workload from the KC-135 workload is unacceptable. Additionally, the award allows for timely conversion of McClellan AFB facilities for reuse, puts to rest the uncertainty of future closure plans for Air Force employees, and allows the Air Force to meet the prescribed McClellan AFB closure date. This award also permits the reuse of the former Kelly AFB maintenance facilities and enhances the overall productivity of Ogden ALC. (Courtesy of Air Force Materiel Command News Service) patrick cullumber ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 98 02:44:34 -0000 From: User Subject: SR 71 Cancellation and Congressperson When I read the posting here asking us to write our congressperson on the SR-71 cancellation, I sent email to my reps. Taucher from this area sent me a nice letter and a copy of a letter from the air force saying why the program was cancelled (or something like that). Today I got an email from Congresswoman Barbera Boxer saying my email would be read by her within five days (apparently in digest form-they get 800 emails a day) Interesting difference in responses. jaz ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:21:07 -0700 From: G&G Subject: Re: Aerodynamics Question Brad Hitch wrote: > > So, do you know why one side of the "V" is longer than the other? > > Answer: There's more birds on that side. Depends on which hemisphere - Coriolis, you know... ;) Greg ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 21:44:43 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Aerodynamics Question At 07:21 PM 10/12/98 -0700, you wrote: >Brad Hitch wrote: >> >> So, do you know why one side of the "V" is longer than the other? >> >> Answer: There's more birds on that side. > > > Depends on which hemisphere - Coriolis, you know... ;) > > > Greg > > Wouldn't the Coriolis Effect cause them to fly in circles then? patrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:31:41 -0500 From: Todd McDaniel Subject: Blackbird t-shirts? Hi. I've been trying to find out if Blackbird is still around. They made (make?) really cool t-shirts, I especially treasure the YF-23 shirt I bought from them. There is a website http://www.blackbird-t-shirts.com/, but the phone number isn't any good. Has anyone else dealt with them recently? - -Todd McDaniel @-------------------------------------------------------------------@ | Todd McDaniel tmcdanie@metrowerks.com | | Documentation Alchemist http://www.metrowerks.com | | Metrowerks, Inc. | @-------------------------------------------------------------------@ "He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion" -- Unknown "...and a couple Triple Pelvic Osteotomy's if she needs them" --Me ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 12:56:53 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: New? analysis of black aircraft projects At http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/mahon/index.html there's a paper discussing various black aircraft projects since the mid-1980s. I'm not informed enough about such things to have a meaningful opinion about what the author says, and was wondering if anyone here could critique the analysis. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 18:13:50 -0700 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: New? analysis of black aircraft projects >At http://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/mahon/index.html there's a paper discussing >various black aircraft projects since the mid-1980s. I'm not informed >enough about such things to have a meaningful opinion about what the author >says, and was wondering if anyone here could critique the analysis. Interesting, but oddly familiar. See also http://members.macconnect.com/~quellish/dawn.spml And Terry's postings on the list regarding patent searches- interesting stuff! Dan ______________________________________________________________ "Sometimes what Apple is doing may have an electrifying effect on the rest of us. It's nothing we couldn't have done, but Apple went ahead and did it." - -Andy Grove, CEO of Intel, speaking about his new iMac. ______________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 19:49:14 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Test message Test. Test..... I'm here to ask/As you'll soon see --/Did you grope/Miss Lewinsky?/Did you grope her/In your house?/Did you grope/Beneath her blouse? I did not do that/Here nor there--/I did not do that/Anywhere! /I did not do that/Near or far --/I did not do that/Starr-You-Are. Did you smile?/Did you flirt?/Did you peek/Beneath her skirt? /And did you tell/the girl to lie/When called upon/To testify? I do not like you/Starr-You-Are --/I think that you/Have gone too far. /I will not answer/Any more -- Perhaps I will go/Start a war! /The public's easy/To distract -- When bombs are/Falling on Iraq! Test out. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 16:45:09 -0600 From: Brent Clark Subject: [Fwd: [MilCom] New TV Program on U2 Aircraft] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------5CC236DF92A86BC1F477B7F5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit - --------------5CC236DF92A86BC1F477B7F5 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: Received: from ns3.qth.net (www.qth.net [207.204.29.187]) by ixmail4.ix.netcom.com (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7/(NETCOM v1.01)) with ESMTP id SAA03436; ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:59:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ns3.qth.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) id VAA16995 for milcom-outgoing; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:42:21 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: ns3.qth.net: majordom set sender to owner-milcom@qth.net using -f Received: from THE-SPA.COM (the-spa.com [204.97.227.2]) by ns3.qth.net (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id VAA16982 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:42:19 -0400 Received: from kennethw ([208.9.195.36]) by THE-SPA.COM with SMTP (IPAD 2.08) id 6885100 ; Fri, 16 Oct 1998 21:47:42 EST Message-Id: <3.0.5.32.19981016173237.007d2380@mail.the-spa.com> X-Sender: ken.windyka@mail.the-spa.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 17:32:37 -0400 To: milcom@qth.net From: ken windyka Subject: [MilCom] New TV Program on U2 Aircraft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-milcom@qth.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ken windyka ABC's TV News/Documentary Series "Behind Closed Doors", Tuesdays evenings 2200 hrs eastern time, plans to air a program about the U2 with a civilian reporter on next week's program (10/20/98).... A film snip shows a civilian female reporter flying in a two seat U2 at 60K & the aircraft has to declare an IFE. Should be interesting show. Ken - --- Submissions milcom@qth.net - --------------5CC236DF92A86BC1F477B7F5-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Oct 1998 18:37:20 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Photos of first refueling of an F-22 Raptor Photos of first refueling of an F-22 Raptor: http://www.af.mil/news/Aug1998/n19980804_981146.html ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 08:52:22 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Stealth verification kit This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDFA74.9F0E3260 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Interesting that this talks about the stealthiness of "various Air Force = platforms." - -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - ----------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 19:17:37 PDT Subject: Common Low Observable Verification System (CLOVerS)- Summary: Aircraft Components and Accessories [EXCERPT] =20 Common Low Observable Verification System (CLOVerS)- Presolicitation Notice/Procurement =20 OFFICE ASC/SMD, Attn: Contracting, 2145 Monahan Way, Bldg. 28, Ste 300, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433-7017 . SOLNBR: SOL ASC/SMDK-98-01 CONTACT: POC T. Kristina Hansman, Contract Negotiator, (937) 255-6145, ext 3647/Leonard G. Seeker, Contracting Officer, ext 3598 DESC: This CBD announcement constitutes a Notice of Contract Action (NOCA) before issuance of a solicitation. =20 A sources sought synopsis was published in the CBD 13 May 98. It is anticipated that solicitation number F33657-98-R-0026 will be issued for Engineering and Manufacturing Development (EMD) and an option for Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) (4 units) of a Common Low Observable Verification System (CLOVerS). =20 CLOVerS is expected to be a common, easily deployable, user-friendly Low Observable (LO) verification measurement system, to include diagnostic capability, suitable for the flight line environment at the Main Operating Base (MOB) and Forward Operating Location (FOL). =20 CLOVerS' primary function is to assess Radar Cross Section (RCS) integrity to support and maintain stealth capabilities for various Air Force platforms. =20 The resultant contract may be amended to incorporate usage on additional Air Force platforms and Navy and Army platforms if requirements are identified. =20 CLOVerS will be a tool for the maintainer to use to accomplish this task, ideally in an unclassified environment. =20 NOTE: CLOVerS is not just a radar system or similar type measuring device. =20 The requirements for CLOVerS are contained in a Draft Operational Requirements Document (ORD) developed by the Air Combat Command (ACC). =20 The main draft requirements information can be reviewed on Aeronautical Systems Center's Pre-Award Information Exchange System (PIXS) via the Internet at "http://www.pixs.wpafb.af.mil/." Instructions for using the system can be found in the "User's Guide" on the PIXS Home Page. Recommend use of a 28.8 kilobyte baud rate modem, or higher. - ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDFA74.9F0E3260 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Interesting that this talks about = the=20 stealthiness of "various Air Force platforms."
 
----------------------------------------------------------------= - --------------------------------------------------
 
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 19:17:37 = PDT
Subject:=20 Common Low Observable Verification System (CLOVerS)-
Summary: = Aircraft=20 Components and Accessories
[EXCERPT]
 
Common Low Observable = Verification=20 System (CLOVerS)-
Presolicitation = Notice/Procurement
 
OFFICE=20 ASC/SMD, Attn: Contracting, 2145 Monahan Way, Bldg. 28, Ste
300,=20 Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433-7017 . SOLNBR: SOL
ASC/SMDK-98-01 = CONTACT: POC=20 T. Kristina Hansman, Contract
Negotiator, (937) 255-6145, ext = 3647/Leonard G.=20 Seeker,
Contracting Officer, ext 3598 DESC: This CBD=20 announcement
constitutes a Notice of Contract Action (NOCA) before = issuance=20 of
a solicitation.
 
A sources sought synopsis was = published in=20 the CBD 13 May 98. It
is anticipated that solicitation number=20 F33657-98-R-0026 will be
issued for Engineering and Manufacturing = Development=20 (EMD) and an
option for Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) (4 units) = of=20 a
Common Low Observable Verification System = (CLOVerS).
 
CLOVerS=20 is expected to be a common, easily deployable,
user-friendly Low = Observable=20 (LO) verification measurement system,
to include diagnostic = capability,=20 suitable for the flight line
environment at the Main Operating Base = (MOB) and=20 Forward Operating
Location (FOL).
 
CLOVerS' primary = function is=20 to assess Radar Cross Section (RCS)
integrity to support and maintain = stealth=20 capabilities for various
Air Force platforms.
 
The = resultant=20 contract may be amended to incorporate usage on
additional Air Force=20 platforms and Navy and Army platforms if
requirements are=20 identified.
 
CLOVerS will be a tool for the maintainer to = use to=20 accomplish
this task, ideally in an unclassified=20 environment.
 
NOTE: CLOVerS is not just a radar system or = similar=20 type
measuring device.
 
The requirements for CLOVerS are=20 contained in a Draft Operational
Requirements Document (ORD) = developed by the=20 Air Combat Command
(ACC).
 
The main draft requirements=20 information can be reviewed on
Aeronautical Systems Center's = Pre-Award=20 Information Exchange
System (PIXS) via the Internet at "http://www.pixs.wpafb.af.mil/."
Instructions=20 for using the system can be found in the "User's
Guide" on = the PIXS=20 Home Page. Recommend use of a 28.8 kilobyte
baud rate modem, or=20 higher.
- ------=_NextPart_000_003F_01BDFA74.9F0E3260-- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 14:30:21 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Apologies... for all the MIME stuff in my previous message. I *try* to remember not to do that, but sometimes a synapse misfires. :-( ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 98 21:11:41 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: SR-71 update The Defense supplemental has been worked out. One of the functions of this supplemental was expected to partly fund the troops the Administration is reportedly planning to station in the former Yugoslavia as soon as the UN demands it (the rest of the cost will apparntly have to be absorbed by the regular budget). There were also some attempts to partially address readiness issues as well as certain items that fell through the cracks in the regular process. The word going in was that any items in the supplemental that the Administration didn't want would be bitterly fought and the whole supplemental would be held up unless there were big compensations elsewhere. The FY99 funds for the SR were in the original submission, but the Administration strongly opposes the program and the negotiators didn't want to fall on their swords for it, so it got dropped. All that remains now is the official closedown order and disposition of the aircraft. Ego and bureaucracy once again triumph over the country's and our forces' needs. A little supplemental note (I'm not making this up): Although $39 million for the SR-71 was considered too much to spend, apparently there is a $50 million item in the budget---for Viagra. Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Oct 1998 20:57:10 -0400 From: Martin Hurst Subject: Bye Bye Birdie ||:\( - ------ =_NextPart_000_01BDFADA.A0925100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It was great while you were flying, perhaps you will fly again ...!?!?!? Hey Art, wasn't the same, >it, so it got dropped. All that remains now is the official closedown = order and=20 >disposition of the aircraft. =20 "closedown order" given to the Blackbird back in 1990, BUT there were = actually 4 birds kept in "operational storage". Who would have had this = done, and who could have had this storage done without the Air Farce = knowing this back then and not "disposition" of the aricraft back in = 1990? Is it not possible that this could be done again? - - Martin p.s. Art wrote: Sunday, October 18, 1998 5:11 PM >Ego and bureaucracy once again triumph over the country's and our = forces'=20 >needs. A little supplemental note (I'm not making this up): Although = $39 million=20 >for the SR-71 was considered too much to spend, apparently there is a = $50 million=20 >item in the budget---for Viagra. =20 I'm just curious, Art. I don't know you except for your valuable input = to this list. But how do you seem to be so close and knowing of the actual goings on = into the decisions made in the govt. and the mil? 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