From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V7 #88 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Tuesday, December 15 1998 Volume 07 : Number 088 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message The F-22's gun Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 JASSM [none] Test Re: Area 51 re:A4B Re: Area 51 Re: Re: Area 51 Re: Test Re: Area 51 Re: A4B Re: Area 51 Re: [Foxhunt] Test RE: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 Something SR-71 shaped in Star Wars "The Phantom Menace" preview *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 13 Dec 98 21:05:47 -0500 From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id WAA00565 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 22:44:09 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id RAA04500; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 17:20:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma004489; Sun, 13 Dec 98 17:20:09 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id PAA25274; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:30:20 -0700 (MST) Received: from tomcat.sac.verio.net (tomcat.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.15]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id PAA25266; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 15:30:18 -0700 (MST) From: betnal@ns.net Received: from pm06-20.sac.verio.net (pm06-20.sac.verio.net [209.162.64.227]) by tomcat.sac.verio.net (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with SMTP id OAA15529 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 1998 14:30:24 -0800 (PST) To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: SW corporate restructuring? Date: Sun, 13 Dec 98 22:30:56 GMT Message-ID: References: <006001be2620$f3b9c680$efc294cd@dzn.dzn.com> <19981212.151437.4791.0.KC7VDG@juno.com> X-Mailer: Quarterdeck Message Center [2.00] Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com On 12/12/98 3:16PM, in message <19981212.151437.4791.0.KC7VDG@juno.com>, K. Rudolph wrote: > Where'd you get this info? Skunk-Works is more commonly known as USAF > Plant #42, 90 miles NORTH of Burbank. > > Kurt > > For the overwhelming majority of its life, the Skunk Works was at Burbank, it didn't move until after the F-117s production was finished. It's probably just an oversight on the part of the writer. The Skunk Works is now at the same airfield as Plant #42, but Plant #42 and the Skunk Works are not one and the same. Art - --simple boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 98 07:13:06 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: The F-22's gun A while back I believe I said that the F-22 may get a new gun. Guess I was wrong. Right now it looks like the F-22 will be armed with a version of the good ol' M61 that we've been using since the mid '50s. Art ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:22:32 GMT From: abeaumont@canterbury.kent.sch.uk (Adrian Beaumont) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 >------------------------------ > >Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:15:35 EST >From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) >Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #86 > >What has been printed i nthis country for years is that the US Navy had >RADAR system designed in 1917, by an Amateur Radio man. They wanted a >"death ray', but he said forget it, it can't be done, so here's RADAR. I >believe his actual words were "I'll tell yuo how fast it is going and how >far the aeroplane is". > >Kurt > Thanks, but it didn't actually happen though there was a proposal in 1917 - neither did the 1922 proposal, and that came from a fellow called Marconi............. The first measurement of radio wave reflection was in the mid twenties and that was detecting measuring the ionised layers in the upper atmosphere. It all followed an original paper on the subject by James Clerk Maxwell in the mid 1860s and later papers by Heinrich Hertz. The matter of a "death ray" is certainly with merit - the original request in this country in about 1933/34 was to see if such a ray could be produced with the aim of disabling if not actually killing an enemy pilot. Calculations by Robert Watson Watt showed that the power required was impossibly large, but that reflections might be useful. The large wavelength was partly chosen because it would maximise reflections from the wingspan of a typical bomber of the era ie it would act as a half wave dipole. I do note your comment about a different story being printed for years in the USA - all this was subject to a strict level of secrecy under the thirty year rule in the UK, so that none of it was revealed till 1976. Some people still think that ENIAC was the first computer, as COLOSSUS remained a secret for so many years because of its WW2 code breaking use! The question of secrecy is a good one - we did actually get two Ju88 night fighters carrying Lichtenstein radar delivered to us. The first arrived in 1943 at Aberdeen in the north of Scotland. Some say that it was expected, others that it arrived guarded by a squadron of Spitfires....... The aircraft is preserved to this day at an RAF base at St Athan. The second arrived a little later, and was almost brand new. The story was that the pilot accidentlally flew a reciprocal compass course and ended up in the UK. Just how easy is it for an experienced night fighter pilot to make that kind of mistake? The official version to this day is that the first was a defection, the second an accident. The question of stealth technology is also good - does anyone know just when the ideas were first discussed at the Skunk Works? Did aircraft development simply stick for some years at trying to be faster/higher than the other guy's missiles or bullets? Given that radar had had such a massive impact on WW2, why didn't aircraft designers try to make "invisible" aircraft sooner? Adrian Beaumont G7FWF PS Thank you Patrick! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 10:03:12 +0100 (MET) From: pharabod@in2p3.fr Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 > The question of stealth technology is also > good - does anyone know just when the ideas > were first discussed at the skunk-works? Did > aircraft development simply stick for some > years at trying to be faster/higher than > the other guy's missiles or bullets? Given > that radar had had such a massive impact on > WW2, why didn't aircraft designers try to > make "invisible" aircraft sooner? > Adrian Beaumont (Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:22:32 GMT) It seems that one of the first attempts, in the USA, was made by Alfred C. Loedding, civilian engineer at T-3 Engineering at Wright Field. He was an expert in low aspect ratio aircraft, a fluent speaker of German, and discussed that with 3rd Reich engineers coming from Germany via the "Paperclip" operation. In 1948, he designed a kind of flat ovoid (looking like a "saucer" if I may use this infamous word) with two vertical stabilizers on the rear. The engine was a jet engine with two air inlets, one on the left side of the ovoid, the other symetrically on the right side. It seems that a model has been tested in the Wright Field wind tunnel. However, the Air Force did not go further. J. Pharabod ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 12:13:55 EST From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 I see tha tI as with most of us are victoms of American dis-information! I read of an aircraft designated A4b in 1943 flew at 4200 MPH, there was a picture and all in a book about the histroy of aircraft. Have you heard of this? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:22:32 GMT abeaumont@canterbury.kent.sch.uk (Adrian Beaumont) writes: > >>------------------------------ >> >>Date: Fri, 11 Dec 1998 11:15:35 EST >>From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) >>Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #86 >> >>What has been printed i nthis country for years is that the US Navy >had >>RADAR system designed in 1917, by an Amateur Radio man. They wanted >a >>"death ray', but he said forget it, it can't be done, so here's >RADAR. I >>believe his actual words were "I'll tell yuo how fast it is going and >how >>far the aeroplane is". >> >>Kurt >> > >Thanks, but it didn't actually happen though there was a proposal in >1917 - >neither did the 1922 proposal, and that came from a fellow called >Marconi............. The first measurement of radio wave reflection >was in >the mid twenties and that was detecting measuring the ionised layers >in the >upper atmosphere. It all followed an original paper on the subject >by >James Clerk Maxwell in the mid 1860s and later papers by Heinrich >Hertz. >The matter of a "death ray" is certainly with merit - the original >request >in this country in about 1933/34 was to see if such a ray could be >produced >with the aim of disabling if not actually killing an enemy pilot. >Calculations by Robert Watson Watt showed that the power required was >impossibly large, but that reflections might be useful. The large >wavelength was partly chosen because it would maximise reflections >from the >wingspan of a typical bomber of the era ie it would act as a half wave >dipole. > >I do note your comment about a different story being printed for years >in >the USA - all this was subject to a strict level of secrecy under the >thirty >year rule in the UK, so that none of it was revealed till 1976. Some >people still think that ENIAC was the first computer, as COLOSSUS >remained a >secret for so many years because of its WW2 code breaking use! > >The question of secrecy is a good one - we did actually get two Ju88 >night >fighters carrying Lichtenstein radar delivered to us. The first >arrived in >1943 at Aberdeen in the north of Scotland. Some say that it was >expected, >others that it arrived guarded by a squadron of Spitfires....... The >aircraft is preserved to this day at an RAF base at St Athan. The >second >arrived a little later, and was almost brand new. The story was that >the >pilot accidentlally flew a reciprocal compass course and ended up in >the UK. >Just how easy is it for an experienced night fighter pilot to make >that kind >of mistake? The official version to this day is that the first was a >defection, the second an accident. > >The question of stealth technology is also good - does anyone know >just when >the ideas were first discussed at the Skunk Works? Did aircraft >development simply stick for some years at trying to be faster/higher >than >the other guy's missiles or bullets? Given that radar had had such a >massive impact on WW2, why didn't aircraft designers try to make >"invisible" >aircraft sooner? > >Adrian Beaumont >G7FWF > >PS Thank you Patrick! > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 13:42:35 -0800 From: David Lednicer Subject: JASSM I'm surprised nobody has reported this yet - another picture of the latest Skunk Works project has shown up, this time in Av Week. Page 25 of the November 30 issue has a picture of the Lockheed JASSM being dropped from a F-16. The wings on JASSm are still folded, but you can get an idea of the vehicle's shaping. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (425) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (425) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 21:00:46 -0800 From: patrick Subject: [none] Sorry Art!! FYI: 981929. Second Global Hawk No. 2 flight test successful by Sue Baker Aeronautical Systems Center Public Affairs WRIGHT-PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE, Ohio (AFPN) - An unmanned aerial vehicle being developed by the Aeronautical Systems Center here soared to 50,000 feet and checked wideband communication links during the program's eighth successful test flight. Global Hawk No. 2 met all test objectives during its second flight Dec. 4 at the Air Force Flight Test Center, Edwards Air Force Base, Calif. "The most significant accomplishment on this mission was the demonstration of wideband communications between the air vehicle and the ground station," said Col. Pat Bolibrzuch, Air Force program manager. "We confirmed the system's ability to send imagery data to the warfighter on the ground. This is another first step, and will help pave the way as we enter sensor flight testing in a couple of weeks." Global Hawk No. 2 flew for the first time Nov. 20, remained airborne for 3.1 hours and reached 50,000 feet in altitude. It and Global Hawk No. 1 - -- which has made six flights in l998 - are each designed to demonstrate the airworthiness of the UAV. "For Global Hawk No. 1, we've accomplished many milestones during this flight test program," Bolibrzuch said. "We've gone from contract award to first flight in only 32 months and demonstrated safe, controllable, autonomous operations, including automated takeoff, climb, cruise, descent and landing. "Global Hawk No. 1 has flown in limited civilian and expanded military airspace, and shown that its command and control functions can be handed off from the launch and recovery element at Edwards to the mission control element at the Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical prime contractor facility in San Diego. "During 30 hours of accumulated test flights, we've also demonstrated that we can override Global Hawk's airspeed, altitude and heading, and flight-control spoilers," Bolibrzuch said. "We've shown that Global Hawk can return to home base automatically if its command link is severed, manage a 'go-around' from missed landing approach, and take off - -- fully loaded with 14,000 pounds of JP-8 fuel -- only 3,500 feet down the runway." Future test goals for the second Global Hawk include two flights now scheduled for late December and mid-January, to check operation of an integrated-sensor suite. Both vehicles will be used to characterize ISS electro-optical and synthetic aperture radar functions and survivability, beginning with three flights -- two for vehicle No. 1, and one for vehicle No. 2, in late January and February. Manufactured by Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical, Global Hawk -- with a wingspan of 116 feet -- will provide battlespace commanders near-real-time intelligence imagery from high altitudes for long periods of time, using SAR, moving target indicator, EO and infrared sensor systems. The data gathered by Global Hawk will be relayed to decision-makers via world-wide satellite communication links to its ground segment. A typical reconnaissance mission for Global Hawk might involve operating at a range of 12,500 nautical miles, at altitudes up to 65,000 feet for 38 to 42 hours. Capable of flying 3,000 miles to an area of reconnaissance interest, Global Hawk could then survey an area the size of Illinois (40,000 square nautical miles) for 24 hours, relaying intelligence data via ground and airborne links -- and return 3,000 miles to its operating base. Following the end of Global Hawk's flight testing program in April, U.S. Atlantic Command and Air Combat Command will conduct a military utility assessment to determine how they might use UAVs in future operations. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 00:20:03 EST From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) Subject: Test This is a test being sent to ALL mailing lists I am on which appear to have dried up over the past couple weeks, or I have NEVER recieved mail from: fedcom laserlowfer microwave foxhunt skunk-works balloons-rockets bpsk mars milsurplus radio-astronomy scanner sstv-atv Is it common for so many lists from the SAME server to fail at once?? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 06:59:15 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Hey Patrick! I don't hate Global Hawk, but lessee here: Over a year late in first flight. In a year they've managed to have seven, or is it only six, flights with two air vehicles. R&D Waaay over budget Unit price at least 30% above estimates Probably can't be used where there are sophisticated air defenses Limited sensor payload per mission Talk of sensor capabilities possibly having to be lowered in order to reduce costs. Not enough ground stations planned to permit rapid deployment worldwide Global Hawk is Not a bad thing, but as yet it doesn't qualify, as Martha Stewart might say, as, "It's a Good Thing". Art ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:53:57 -0800 (PST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Area 51 Anyone can tell me how to get to Area 51? Highway number? Well, the closest allowable point. I am heading Las Vegas tomorrow and see if I have time to "check it out"... Well, I just finished building my SR-71 and wish to test it... Just kidding. I will appreciate the answer and thanks in advances. May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@cco.caltech.edu "The only people who never fail are those who never try." Og Mandino ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:18:32 -0500 From: "Kim Keller" Subject: re:A4B Kurt, The A4B was a winged version of the V-2 rocket. It was an attempt at creating a rocket glider that would extend the range of the V-2 series. I believe only one test article was launched. As I recall, it crashed when one of the wings separated. regards, Kim ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 08:49:07 -0600 From: Dave Bethke Subject: Re: Area 51 Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > Anyone can tell me how to get to Area 51? Highway number? Well, > the closest allowable point. I just happen to have a map and directions on a Web page. :-) The page is at http://pw2.netcom.com/~bethland/a51directions.html. It tells how to get to the closest point on Groom Lake Road. Climbing Tikaboo to actually see the base may not be possible. If the road or trail is snow covered it could be treacherous. But do stop at Rachel; seeing the people there is worth the extra 30 miles or so. Good luck on the SR-71 tests! - -- Dave Bethke - on the fringe of Houston (and reality) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:48:37 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Re: At 06:59 AM 12/15/98 GMT, Art wrote: >Hey Patrick! > > I don't hate Global Hawk, but.....(snip).....as yet it doesn't qualify, as Martha >Stewart might say, as, "It's a Good Thing". > > > Art Okay, going back to watching Martha on how to make Christmas tree ornaments from the sweepings found under your kitchen stove. Give me a heads up next time a Good Thing flies! patrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 06:53:33 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Re: Area 51 At 11:53 PM 12/14/98 -0800, you wrote: > > Anyone can tell me how to get to Area 51? Highway number? Well, >the closest allowable point. I am heading Las Vegas tomorrow and see if I >have time to "check it out"... > Well, I just finished building my SR-71 and wish to test it... >Just kidding. > I will appreciate the answer and thanks in advances. > > Wei-Jen: That depends. Are you going to fly your SR-71 to Groom, truck it or put it in a C-5A??? You will be cleared for 60,000 feet plus but then at that altitude you won't come down until your near Chicago! Better take the Greyhound and leave the flying to NASA! patrick ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 11:56:48 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: Re: Test Kurt, Think about the time of year it is... skunk-works had been active, compared to what it was a couple of months ago! Greg W ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Test Author: at INTERNET Date: 12/15/98 8:00 PM This is a test being sent to ALL mailing lists I am on which appear to have dried up over the past couple weeks, or I have NEVER recieved mail from: fedcom laserlowfer microwave foxhunt skunk-works balloons-rockets bpsk mars milsurplus radio-astronomy scanner sstv-atv Is it common for so many lists from the SAME server to fail at once?? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 98 11:58:29 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: Re: Area 51 Of all of the people on this list, he's the one I'd vote 'Most Likely to Build an SR-71'!! Greg W ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Area 51 Author: at INTERNET Date: 12/14/98 11:53 PM Well, I just finished building my SR-71 and wish to test it... Wei-Jen Su ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:07:56 EST From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) Subject: Re: A4B In this book, it was a long pointed airplane with short wings, a low canopy, and short wings just behind the engine inlets. It had tricycle landing gear, was quit large, bigger than the V2. The picture showed the A4b designation on the craft, showed the little truck that pulls it to the tarmack and a man next to it! It was big. The engines were describe as hyper-sonic ram-jets. I saw this in a book in the pilots shop at John Wayne Airport. Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America On Tue, 15 Dec 1998 07:18:32 -0500 "Kim Keller" writes: >Kurt, > >The A4B was a winged version of the V-2 rocket. It was an attempt at >creating a rocket glider that would extend the range of the V-2 >series. I >believe only one test article was launched. As I recall, it crashed >when one >of the wings separated. > >regards, > >Kim > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 12:07:56 EST From: kc7vdg@juno.com (K. Rudolph) Subject: Re: Area 51 Hwy 375 east. Area 51 was shut down a couple years ago, so don't expect to see anything, they moved to Utah. Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America On Mon, 14 Dec 1998 23:53:57 -0800 (PST) Wei-Jen Su writes: > > Anyone can tell me how to get to Area 51? Highway number? >Well, >the closest allowable point. I am heading Las Vegas tomorrow and see >if I >have time to "check it out"... > Well, I just finished building my SR-71 and wish to test it... >Just kidding. > I will appreciate the answer and thanks in advances. > > May the Force be with you > > Wei-Jen Su > E-mail: wsu@cco.caltech.edu > > "The only people who never fail are those who never try." > > Og Mandino > > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 17:51:11 +0000 From: Ed Loranger Subject: Re: [Foxhunt] Test From Foxhunt, this list has been quiet for a long time. probably need some simple projects to build for us to get energized. - -Ed - -- 72, Ed WE6W, A-1 OP; http://www.qsl.net/we6w Santa Rosa, CA QRP-Z#106 QRP-L#1068 AR#112 NC#2227 ARCI#9397 QAA#006 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 10:59:33 -0800 From: ehoel@esri.com Subject: RE: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 The old Northrop XB-35/YB-49s exhibited some significant degree of stealth as well. Apparently when flying off the coast of Northern California near Half Moon Bay (around 1949 or so), the radar operators at Half Moon Bay (20-30 miles south of SF) were unable to detect the bomber although it was flying off the coast in the general area for an hour or so (this is from memory - I'll check my reference tonight). In any event, it was noted at the time. I am curious how and when this bit of knowledge surfaced during the design of the B-2. Erik - -- Erik Hoel mailto:ehoel@esri.com Environmental Systems Research Institute http://www.esri.com 380 New York Street 909-793-2853 (x1-1548) tel Redlands, CA 92373-8100 909-307-3067 fax > -----Original Message----- > From: pharabod@in2p3.fr [mailto:pharabod@in2p3.fr] > Sent: Monday, December 14, 1998 1:03 AM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Cc: pharabod@in2p3.fr > Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V7 #87 > > > > The question of stealth technology is also > > good - does anyone know just when the ideas > > were first discussed at the skunk-works? Did > > aircraft development simply stick for some > > years at trying to be faster/higher than > > the other guy's missiles or bullets? Given > > that radar had had such a massive impact on > > WW2, why didn't aircraft designers try to > > make "invisible" aircraft sooner? > > Adrian Beaumont (Mon, 14 Dec 1998 08:22:32 GMT) > > It seems that one of the first attempts, in the > USA, was made by Alfred C. Loedding, civilian > engineer at T-3 Engineering at Wright Field. He > was an expert in low aspect ratio aircraft, a > fluent speaker of German, and discussed that with > 3rd Reich engineers coming from Germany via the > "Paperclip" operation. In 1948, he designed a > kind of flat ovoid (looking like a "saucer" if > I may use this infamous word) with two vertical > stabilizers on the rear. The engine was a jet > engine with two air inlets, one on the left side > of the ovoid, the other symetrically on the right > side. It seems that a model has been tested in > the Wright Field wind tunnel. However, the Air > Force did not go further. > > J. Pharabod > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 11:54:07 -0800 From: Larry Smith Subject: Something SR-71 shaped in Star Wars "The Phantom Menace" preview Just saw the preview for the first of the Star Wars Prequels entitled "The Phantom Menace". There were two shots of something that looked very much like a futuristic SR-71 (no verticals (I think), and take the basic Habu shape and make it larger and even more sexy). There was one shot that immediately hit my 'hypersonic spaceplane' tag in my visual cache that showed the bird on the ground, and another of the same bird in orbit over a planet. These were very quick glimpses and also my first viewing of this preview, so I'm not sure about anything. But that's what it looked like. Regards, Larry ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V7 #88 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner