From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #8 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Friday, January 29 1999 Volume 08 : Number 008 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Object in F-117 weapons bay Re: Object in F-117 weapons bay DarkStar cancelled? Cobra Ball on TDY at Diego Garcia Cobra Ball @ Diego Garcia Re: DarkStar cancelled? Russian plasma stealth ? Re: Russian plasma stealth ? Re: Russian plasma stealth ? what can replace the SR71? Re[2]: Russian plasma stealth ? Re: what can replace the SR71? Re: Russian Plasma Stealth Re: Russian Plasma Stealth Re: Russian Plasma Stealth Re: Russian plasma stealth ? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:01:03 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Object in F-117 weapons bay Allen Thomson wondered: >On p. 56 of the December 1998 issue of Flight Journal, there's a picture of >an object hanging from a rail lowered from the weapons bay of a parked F-117. [...] >What is it? A real weapon? A generic shape for loading practice? >Something else? As several people have already pointed out, the object in question is an MXU-648/A 'Aircraft Cargo Pod', which is sometimes also called 'Baggage Pod', 'Travel Pod', or 'Personal Equipment Pod'. It is basically the casing of a modified Vietnam-era BLU-1/B (or BLU-27/B) 750 lb. Napalm bomb (with fins), equipped with a side door, that is used to store personal effects, tools, and about anything else one can stuff in there. I have seen MXU-648/A pods on F-16s, F-5s, T-38s, A-7s, A-10s, F-117s and F-111s, but I bet that about any plane equipped for external stores could carry one. The designation (MXU-648/A) is somewhat curious, though, because MXUs are supposedly "Munitions Guidance Units", like GBU (Guided Bomb Unit) nose/fin targeting/steering kits and NVGs (Night Vision Goggles). The "/A" means that the item stays attached to the aircraft to fulfill its purpose (in contrast to "/B", which means the item is discarded or dropped, to fulfill its purpose.) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:27:21 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Re: Object in F-117 weapons bay At 11:01 PM 1/27/99 -0500, Andreas wrote: > >The designation (MXU-648/A) is somewhat curious, though, because MXUs are >supposedly "Munitions Guidance Units", like GBU (Guided Bomb Unit) nose/fin >targeting/steering kits and NVGs (Night Vision Goggles). > > Andreas Got no idea but I am guessing these are made in the fab shop by each squadron. In which case they may have back door'ed the numbers to keep the bean counters happy. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 10:35:37 -0700 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: DarkStar cancelled? I just saw an unsourced assertion on sci.space.policy that DarkStar was cancelled yesterday -- anyone here able to confirm or refute this? (I did a quick Web search but nothing turned up.) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 21:50:55 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Cobra Ball on TDY at Diego Garcia Well I thought it was interesting that after several years of not being mentioned that the name Cobra Ball appears in the ACC newsletter. Evidently they are staged in Kadena or thereabouts if their assigned tanker crews operate from Kadena. I don't remember hearing them mentioned during the Gulf War. So its interesting to see them operating from Diego Garcia. Or at least its interesting to see them discuss it anyway. Now I wonder if we can get Dr. Bob to bless the newslist with some tidbits about Cobra Ball operations in SW Asia? patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 11:30:44 -0700 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Cobra Ball @ Diego Garcia Pakistan recently announced that it would conduct another test of the Ghauri MRBM. I'd guess Cobra Ball is there to monitor that activity, probably from the northern Arabian Sea. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 03:51:32 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: DarkStar cancelled? On 1/28/99 9:35AM, in message <002a01be4ae4$9f4ee7e0$51c294cd@dzn.dzn.com>, "Allen Thomson" wrote: > I just saw an unsourced assertion on sci.space.policy that DarkStar was > cancelled yesterday -- anyone here able to confirm or refute this? (I did a > quick Web search but nothing turned up.) > Today's Wall Street Journal also says this. There was an allusion to this in recent Aviation Weeks. There has apparently been some behind the scene rivalry between the two UAV camps. Both the programs were rumored to be in trouble,there simply wasn't enough money to fund them both and the Global Hawk camp was stronger. Dare I say it? See how wise the folks in Washington were to get rid of the SR-71? Art ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:57:55 +0100 (MET) From: pharabod@in2p3.fr Subject: Russian plasma stealth ? This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. - --2003597606-851401618-917621595=:8854 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: In attachment is an alleged Russian ITAR-TASS agency release about a new way of obtaining stealthiness, via the use of "plasma". They say that it's or will be far better than the US Lockheed Skunk Works or Northrop way. J. 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What's with all the encryption? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz >DQpBdXRob3I9UGhpbGlwIEthcGxvdW4NDQpSdXNzaWFuIExvdyBPYnNlcnZh >YmlsaXR5IFRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBEYXRhIFJlbGVhc2VkDQ0KUnVzc2lhbiBT >Y2llbnRpc3RzIENyZWF0ZWQgUmV2b2x1dGlvbmFyeSBMb3cgT2JzZXJ2YWJp >bGl0eSBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMNDQpNb3Njb3csIEphbnVhcnkgMjAuIE5pY29s >YWkgTm92aWNoa292LCBJVEFSLVRBU1MgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gYWdlbmN5DQoN >DQogUmVzZWFyY2ggdGVhbSBvZiB0aGUgUmVjZWFyY2ggQ2VudGVyIG5hbWVk >DQ0KYWZ0ZXIgTS5WLiBLZWxkeXNoIGhhcyBkZXZlbG9wZWQgbmV3IHRlY2hu >b2xvZ2llcyBhbGxvd2luZyBkcmFtYXRpYw0NCmRlY3JlYXNlIGluIGFpcmNy >YWZ0cycgcmFkYXIgb2JzZXJ2YWJpbGl0eS4gUnVzc2lhbiBhcHByb2FjaCB0 >byBsb3cgb2JzZXJ2YWJpbGl0eQ0NCihMTykgdGVjaG5vbG9naWVzIGlzIGNv >bXBsZXRlbHkgZGlmZmVyZW50IGZyb20gVVMgU3RlYWx0aCBhbmQgb2ZmZXJz 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Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 13:53:58 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: Russian plasma stealth ? > What's with all the encryption? It's not encrypted -- it's uuencoded. It contains the text of the previous post about plasma stealth. Here it is if any of you out there couldn't read it. I've also removed those annoying carriage returns, but haven't fixed the spelling errors. BTW: What's up with all the spelling mistakes? Did this really come from a news agency? Sam ******************************************************************************** Author=Philip Kaploun Russian Low Observability Technologies Data Released Russian Scientists Created Revolutionary Low Observability Technologies Moscow, January 20. Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS information agency Research team of the Recearch Center named after M.V. Keldysh has developed new technologies allowing dramatic decrease in aircrafts' radar observability. Russian approach to low observability (LO) technologies is completely different from US Stealth and offers complete furtiveness of the protected object at a significantly lower price. An exclusive interview about these technologies was conducted by Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS with director of the Center, academic of Russian Scientific Academy Anatoliy Korteev. As academic explained, American approach to LO (Stealth technology) applied on B-2, F-117A, and fifth generation fighter F-22 "Raptor" is based on the following principles. The airframes of these aircrafts are designed to minimize their radar cross section (RCS), avoid all possible elements of the structure, which could reflect electromagnetic radiation. In order to minimize reflected radiation radio absorbing materials (RAM) are also applied to the surface of the structure. The main drawbacks of the Stealth technology are its negative effects on the flight and agility characteristics of the stealth aircrafts. Russian scientists approache the issue from the other direction. They proposed to create a plasma formation around protected object, which prevents radars from seeing it. Thus, aerodynamical characteristics of the plane itself do not suffer. Without interfereing with technical characteristics the artaficially created plasma cloud surrounding the plane guarantees more than hundred times decrease in its observability. The physics of plasma protection can be described as following. If an object is surrounded by a cloud of plasma, several phenomenas are observed when the cloud interacts with electromagnetic waves radiated by enemy radar. First, an absorption of electromagnetic energy occurs in the cloud, since during plasma penetration it interacts with plasma charged particles, pass onto them a portion of its energy, and fades. Second, due to specific physical processes, electromagnetic wave tends to pass around plasma cloud. Both of these phenomenas results in dramatic decrease of the reflected signal. Static and flight experiments proved the effectiveness of this technology. The first generation devices, producing plasma field surrounding an aircraft and decreasing reflected signal were created in the Center. Later, a possibily of creating second generation advanced systems (capable of not only decreasing reflected signal and changing its wavelength, but also producing some false signals) was discovered. Such systems significantly complicate determination of actual aircraft's speed, its location and leads to development of completely new approaches to LO provision, unachievable to conventional Stealth technology. Furthermore, the weight of the systems developed in Russia do not exeed 100 kg, and power consumption ranges from kilowatts to tens of kilowatts. Advances in development of the third generation LO systems allowed to clear the systems of first and second generation for export, commented academic Anatoliy Korteev. 26/01/99 (c) ITAR-TASS, Translation by Philip Kaploun. The views and opinions expressed in this page are strictly those of the page author.
The contents of this page have not been reviewed or approved by the University of Minnesota. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 11:08:15 PST From: "wayne binkley" Subject: what can replace the SR71? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 14:34:13 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: Re[2]: Russian plasma stealth ? It was a 'stealth' attachment!! ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: Re: Russian plasma stealth ? Author: at INTERNET Date: 1/29/99 12:10 PM What's with all the encryption? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz >DQpBdXRob3I9UGhpbGlwIEthcGxvdW4NDQpSdXNzaWFuIExvdyBPYnNlcnZh >YmlsaXR5IFRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyBEYXRhIFJlbGVhc2VkDQ0KUnVzc2lhbiBT ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:47:12 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: what can replace the SR71? what can replace the SR71? If the SR-142C Aurora Mach 6 very high-altitude reconnaissance platform, or something similar, does not exist, then absolutely nothing. For the billionth time: Satellites have very predictable orbits and can take considerable time to move into position to observe an area that is of interest to us. UAVs are getting canceled left and right, and in the end are not going to work. The SR-71A Blackbird was retired, so if we do not have a classified reconnaissance platform, to replace the SR-71, we're gonna be screwed. Sam PS I am not saying that the Aurora exists, or that it doesn't exist -- I just hope it does. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:03:47 -0600 From: Wayne Busse Subject: Re: Russian Plasma Stealth I'm skeptical. This may be possible on a stationary test-bed or in a wind tunnel, but I would be curious to know: How would the airflow around a maneuvering vehicle interact with the supposed plasma envelope? 1. Airflow over control surfaces? 2. Would maneuvering shear the plasma envelope at high angles of attack? How would an aircraft's electrical/control systems react being surrounded with a charged field? 1. EMF? 2. What would be the weight penalty if shielded? Would this charged field be in itself detectable, either by visual or non-visual emissions? 1. Ionization is detectable, why not the plasma envelope? 2. Infra-red emmissions? What would be the physiological drawbacks to being surrounded by a highly charged field? 1. Neurological disturbances? 2. Long-term exposure prognosis. Sounds like disinformation to me. Wayne Busse http://www.sky.net/~wings wings@sky.net wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 15:47:43 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: Russian Plasma Stealth > I'm skeptical. As am I. > > This may be possible on a stationary test-bed or in a wind tunnel, > but I would be curious to know: > > How would the airflow around a maneuvering vehicle interact > with the supposed plasma envelope? > 1. Airflow over control surfaces? > 2. Would maneuvering shear the plasma envelope at high angles > of attack? > > How would an aircraft's electrical/control systems react > being surrounded with a charged field? > 1. EMF? > 2. What would be the weight penalty if shielded? > > Would this charged field be in itself detectable, either by > visual or non-visual emissions? > 1. Ionization is detectable, why not the plasma envelope? > 2. Infra-red emmissions? > > What would be the physiological drawbacks to being surrounded > by a highly charged field? > 1. Neurological disturbances? > 2. Long-term exposure prognosis. These are very good questions. I would like to see some answers. > > Sounds like disinformation to me. > > Wayne Busse > http://www.sky.net/~wings > wings@sky.net > wbusse@johnco.cc.ks.us > > > I seems that the Russians are so desperate for cash that they will say and do just about anything to get it. We should probably send our people to Russia to buy up all the NBC we can find and hire all the scientists we can find before they end up in North Korea, Iran, Iraq, China, etc. The Soviets in their infinite wisdom (I'm being very sarcastic here in case it's not obvious enough) developed some really nasty NBC weapons and stockpiled so many of them that if they end up in the wrong hands the entire world is going to be in serious trouble. Sam ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 99 16:11:55 EST From: keller@eos.ncsu.edu Subject: Re: Russian Plasma Stealth Wayne Busse raised a few interesting issues about this. While I don't believe that this is disinformation, I, too, am very skeptical of it, and consider that is probably just more of what Art Hanley referred to as gross exageration by the Russians concerning their technology. It also rather smells like an academic researcher's project by a researcher, probably a plasma physicist, whose knowledge of aircraft & aerodynamics has some very large holes. Knowing a few things about plasma physics myself, I'll raise a few more issues: The radars that we're interested defeating, which particularly include air-to-air radars, operate at mighty high frequencies. Most fighter radars operate in the X band, don't they? Anyone know, and know what the corresponding frequencies are in Mhz or Ghz? The higher you go in target frequencies for defeating, the higher the electron density you need to achieve to defeat it. If anyone knows the target radar frequencies we're intested in defeating, I can calculate the required electron densities. They're probably horrendous. That's going to lead to some pretty horrendous power requirements. I'm very skeptical of their "few to few tens of kW" power requirements claim, and the corresponding weight estimate. I will claim to have cheated a bit on this issue: I looked over this idea a few years ago, and went so far as looking over my old plasma physics text book for the electron cutoff frequency formula. Without doing any calculations, I came to the conclusion that the electron densities required to defeat microwave radars were unachievable. You're not going to put a plasma sheet across the engine inlets, partly because of the above power requirements, and also because the air heating from a plasma sheath would probably destroy the engines as well. This leaves the engine inlets uncovered, and, as many here may know, shielding the engines is very important to low observables (LO) technology. To answer Wayne's question, yes, the plasma sheath would stick out like a sore thumb in the IR. LO isn't just about defeating radar. - --Paul Keller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 14:23:58 -0700 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: Russian plasma stealth ? Sam Kaltsidis said: >I've also removed those annoying carriage returns, but haven't fixed the >spelling errors. >BTW: What's up with all the spelling mistakes? Did this really come from a news >agency? >Author=Philip Kaploun >Russian Low Observability Technologies Data Released >Russian Scientists Created Revolutionary Low Observability Technologies >Moscow, January 20. Nicolai Novichkov, ITAR-TASS information agency [everything snipped] >Translation by Philip Kaploun. Novichkov is a well-known and respected aerospace reporter. Most of the text has the typical look of stuff that has been almost-translated into English from Russian, but some of it makes me think Kaploun may be more familiar with French than English terminology ( e.g., "furtiveness" instead of "stealthiness"). Or maybe he was doing it from a French almost-translation of the Russian original ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #8 ******************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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