From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #12 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Thursday, February 25 1999 Volume 08 : Number 012 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** How to get aviation info from CIRC Shock Waves Re: XB-70 (was: Pressure recovery in the SR-71 inlet) B-2 at RIAT this year Re: B-2 at RIAT this year Test.. Sorry RE: Test.. Sorry Re[2]: Test.. Sorry Re: Test.. Sorry Airplane crashes.... U-2 wins Collier Trophy Re: U-2 wins Collier Trophy Powers exhibit a reminder of Cold War era AF news article Re: AF news article Re: AF news article RE: AF news article RE: AF news article Re: RE: AF news article Can You Afford Not To? Remove Re: Can You Afford Not To? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 07:58:43 +0000 From: Michael Ravnitzky Subject: How to get aviation info from CIRC THE CIRC FILES There is a wonderful database of foreign science and technology that the U.S. Govt has collected. But it's not just science and technology, it covers many, many areas. Most of it is unclassified, and all you have to do to use it is to simply ask for a search. You can use this to ask for a bibliography of records on nearly any subject, including aircraft. CIRC has been maintained by an organization called NAIC at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base for over 20 years. NAIC (National Air Intelligence Center) used to be called FASTC (Foreign Aerospace Science and Technology Center), and before that FTD (Foreign Technology Division). CIRC is a set of approximately 12 databases, each covering a couple of years, which can be searched by name, by keyword, by subject, etc. You can ask for *A LIST OF ALL ABSTRACTS/CITATIONS IN EACH OF THE 12 CIRC DATABASES CONCERNING THE FOLLOWING KEYWORDS: XXXXXXX OR YYYYYY OR ZZZZZZ*, under the Freedom of Information Act. So if you are working on a story dealing with *ANYTHING AT ALL*, you can send them a request letter and you should have your search results back in a couple of weeks. The address to whom to write is: Commander NAIC/SCVMS (FOIA) Attn: Gery D. Huelseman, TSgt, USAF Freedom of Information Act Manager Air Intelligence Agency 4180 Watson Way Wright-Patterson AFB, OH 45433-5648 TSgt Huelseman's phone number is 937-257-6284 if you absolutely need to call, but please don't call unless absolutely necessary. Very few people know about this database with millions of records, much less use it effectively. Remember, the focus is on foreign science and technology, and foreign achievements in other fields. Michael Ravnitzky MikeRav@ix.netcom.com St. Paul, MN ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 08:59:35 -0800 From: David Lednicer Subject: Shock Waves As a postscript to our discussion on shockwaves and condensation clouds, there is a picture in the most recent Air International of a Saab JA-37 Viggen, going M=.95 and surrounded by a cloud of condensation. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (425) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (425) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 99 04:07:37 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: XB-70 (was: Pressure recovery in the SR-71 inlet) On 2/4/99 8:13AM, in message <100E1375C3E5D11197C20008C728373C01632E80@hotwire.esri.com>, Erik Hoel wrote: > > > Did the XB-70 and SR-71 have any common roots or genealogy, even > indirectly? > > On a related note, here is something I learned recently in the book XB-70 > Valkyrie: The Ride to Valhalla (Remak and Ventolo, MBI, 1998). The following > is what I gathered from the book: > > There apparently has been some suspicion that Kelly Johnson was somehow > involved in the demise of the XB-70 as it was seen as a competitor (of > sorts) to the A-12 (and possible B-12). Richard Bissell, head of CIA, told > Kennedy that transforming the A-12 into a bomber was possible. Kennedy > replied "Could Kelly Johnson convert the spy plane into a long-range > bomber?" Bissell told him that Johnson apparently was planning to do this > conversion. Kennedy then asked "Then why do we need the B-70 program?" > Bissell said to talk to General LeMay. > Actually, according to a number of sources in Lockheed, Kelly agreed not to lobby or push for the B-12 while there was even a remote chance of the B-70 being resurrected, since the B-70 was SAC's baby and the A-12 series was kind of a bastard child as far as they were concerned. That's why the B-12 proposal remained so little known through the years. The B-12 would have been based on the A-12 lineage, but it would not have been a conversion. The SR-71 itself owes a lot to the B-12. > The long and the short of it according to the authors is that the B-70 > program may have been killed in a political move by the CIA to advance its > own status by attaching itself to the Skunk Works. Don't buy that because the B-70 was reduced to a three aircraft program (one of which never flew) at the end of the Eisenhower administration. Also, USAF has usually had more pull than CIA. That's why when SR-71 first entered service A-12s were prematurely retired even though SR wasn't really ready to take over all of A-12's duties (originally A-12's cameras were better). Although the B-70 was pitched as a recon vehicle (and in fact was officially designated RS-70 for a while), this was more a desperation move since it wouldn't have been very practical in that role. The B-70 was killed because McNamara didn't like bombers and for a pure nuclear strike role alternative methods would have cheaper (although they also never came to fruition). > As a sidebar, once > Bissell was ousted after the Bay of Pigs, Kelly Johnson was quite worried > that McNamara would kill the Blackbird program in a cost-cutting frenzy. > > Which is exactly what he eventually did. Art ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 19:51:41 -0000 From: Gavin Payne Subject: B-2 at RIAT this year I've just read in our local newspaper that the B-2 will be at RIAT Fairford this summer- on the ground this time as a static display. Gavin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:29:33 EST From: Jasper0007@aol.com Subject: Re: B-2 at RIAT this year The B2 will be static and flying in what they said as ' a spectacular and memorable flying display' in the end finale of RIAT which is the Official celebrator of NATOs 50th. The B2 has been finalised and they are trying to get a second B2 to attend aswell. Its going to be a great show, the largest military airshow in the world, with the worlds longest flying display coupled with NATO 50th official birthday celebration! Richard ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 07:33:37 -0500 From: Drew Menser Subject: Test.. Sorry Have not received mail in 3-4 days... 'Who' shows I am still on list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:49:42 -0000 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: RE: Test.. Sorry Message received. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Drew Menser Sent: 18 February 1999 12:34 To: Skunk Works List Subject: Test.. Sorry Have not received mail in 3-4 days... 'Who' shows I am still on list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 99 08:56:08 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: Re[2]: Test.. Sorry Just quiet..... We're all in awe of the stealth President...... ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Subject: RE: Test.. Sorry Author: at INTERNET Date: 2/18/99 12:49 PM Message received. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Drew Menser Sent: 18 February 1999 12:34 To: Skunk Works List Subject: Test.. Sorry Have not received mail in 3-4 days... 'Who' shows I am still on list. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 08:31:47 +0000 From: G&G Subject: Re: Test.. Sorry gregweigold@pmsc.com wrote: > > Just quiet..... > > We're all in awe of the stealth President...... ROTFLMOA!!!!! good one!!! :) :) :) Greg %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% %% Reality is for People Who %% %% Can't Handle Simulation %% %% %% %% habu@cyberramp.net %% %% gdfieser@hti.com %% %% %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 07:12:16 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Airplane crashes.... The Public Broadcasting System ran a series this week on airplane and ship disasters. The airplane episode had much historical video beginning with WW1 and the need for parachutes. I must point out the Germans in WW2 were 10 years ahead of the Allies in developing rocket powered ejection seats for their Me-262. The Allied Powers were convinced the concept was impossible. Early parachute experiments were shown including interviews with Martin of Martin-Baker Co. The "Baker" partner was killed in a Martin designed aircraft thus their dedication to building ejection seats and no longer designing aircraft. Some very good footage(?) and a lot of it was shown of Col. Stapp and his test efforts leading up to and including his famous 628 mph rocket sled ride. He himself narrated the video. And even more esoteric was a lengthy interview with Joe Kittenger who rode a helium balloon to 100,000 feet and bailed out over White Sands Missile Range in the "Manhigh Project". In the narration he revealed that when he acended thru 75,000 feet he realized his pressure suit had a leak in his right hand glove. He hid the fact, hopingd he would survive the test in order to gurantee its success. During the rest of his experiment he had no feeling in his hand. Kittenger still holds the record for absolute altitude. The rest of the program was devoted to the usual FAA staged airliner crashes, famous airliner crashes and the usual explanation that airplane manufacturer's still build cabin interiors of material that creates deadly gases upon burning which are responsible for most victims trapped in a crashed airplane. Now there's a hot topic! If you get to see this program on the reruns the historical stuff is fabulous. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 20 Feb 1999 16:50:00 -0500 (EST) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: U-2 wins Collier Trophy Nobody has posted the following yet, and the list is pretty slow, so here is an article from the AFNS (Air Force News Service), dated 02/12/1999. Nevermind the small inaccuracies they have (as usual) introduced in their article. As a sidenote: The Air&Space magazine article by William E. Burrows might have been less than perfect, but if you want to read something really bad and riddled with errors, look no further than: http://www.historicwings.org/features98/blackbird/1-sr71.html But I digress... AW&ST mentions in their last issue (02/15/1999) that AW&ST Editor-in-Chief David M. North "coincidentally" just last week flew a U-2 at Beale for another upcoming U-2 pilot report (AW&ST had an U-2CT (as well as an SR-71) pilot report in the early or mid 1980s). They also report the trophy will be presented in a ceremony on April 28, 1999, at Arlington, VA. It is quite interesting how much attention is given lately to the U-2, after so many years of secrecy, with several AFNS articles, world records and now the Collier Trophy. Wonder why? - -- Andreas 990235. U-2S/ER-2 aircraft earn 1998 Collier Trophy PALMDALE, Calif. (AFPN) -- The U-2S/ER-2 aircraft will receive the 1998 Robert J. Collier Trophy recognizing the top aeronautical achievement in the United States for 1998, according to the National Aeronautic Association. Lockheed Martin Corporation and its partners, General Electric Corporation, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Air Combat Command of the Air Force and the Defense Intelligence Agency, were recognized for "designing, manufacturing and operating the U-2S/ER-2 high-altitude, all-weather, multi-functional data collection aircraft, which serves as America's "Sentinel of Peace" around the world." In announcing the selection, NAA President Don Koranda said, "Although the U-2 program has been in existence for a long time, this new version will substantially enhance the mission capabilities, performance and safety of this high-altitude aircraft well into the 21st century." Established in 1911, the Collier Trophy is awarded annually for the greatest achievement in aeronautics and astronautics in America, with respect to improving the performance, efficiency and safety of air or space vehicles, the value of which has been thoroughly demonstrated by actual use during the preceding year. The trophy is considered the greatest and most prized of aeronautical honors in America. This marks the fourth Collier Trophy win for the Lockheed Martin Skunk Works. Previous Colliers were awarded for the F-104 Starfighter (1958), the A-11 (1963) and the F-117A Stealth Fighter (1989). It is the 10th Collier Trophy win for Lockheed Martin Corporation and its operating companies. Conceived by famed Lockheed designer Clarence L. "Kelly" Johnson, the U-2A first flew in 1955. By the time production ended in 1968, the design had evolved into the U-2R with an airframe about 40 percent larger that the original. In 1980, the production line was restarted to accommodate an Air Force requirement for TR-1s for NATO missions and a NASA requirement for two ER-2s. All U-2R aircraft have now been converted to the U-2S configuration. The first U-2S was delivered to the Air Force in October 1994. Besides a new, high-efficiency General Electric F118-GE-101 engine, all U-2S aircraft have been equipped with an improved electrical system, digital autopilot and an auxiliary spoiler activation system. Besides being larger, the new U-2S/ER-2 is twice as heavy and can carry four times the payload as its predecessor. In 1998, Air Force-operated U-2S high-altitude reconnaissance aircraft and its NASA variant, the ER-2, combined to claim four altitude and payload records. Three of the records were previously held by aircraft from the Soviet Union, and the fourth is a new world record. The aircraft used were not specially modified variants, but standard mission-configured aircraft conducting routine flights. The total U-2S/ER-2 inventory consists of 37 aircraft that together flew more than 13,640 hours in 1998 without any accidents, making 1998 the safest year in U-2 history. With a modular payload design, the aircraft is also very versatile and has been used by several different customers including NASA, the U.S. military, Federal Emergency Management Agency, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, Drug Enforcement Agency, universities and many others. Operational Air Force U-2s are operated by Air Combat Command. Home base is the 9th Reconnaissance Wing at Beale Air Force Base, Calif., with four forward operating sites worldwide. NASA operates the ER-2 from their Dryden Flight Research Center at Edwards AFB, Calif. ER-2s are used for a wide variety of earth resources-related programs. - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org 313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@acm.flint.umich.edu Flint, MI 48502-1239 Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 99 01:23:59 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: U-2 wins Collier Trophy On 2/20/99 1:50PM, in message , Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > http://www.historicwings.org/features98/blackbird/1-sr71.html > It also an unnecessarily complex presentation. > But I digress... > . > > It is quite interesting how much attention is given lately to the U-2, after > so many years of secrecy, with several AFNS articles, world records and now > the Collier Trophy. Wonder why? > > -- Andreas > > 'cause it's the only working platform we got and it doesn't "threaten" anything? Truth be told, I talked to some support personnel displaying the aircraft at Travis AFB last year, and at that time they were concerned about the fate of their program as well. Seems like fortune is smiling on them for now, though. Art ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:19:48 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Powers exhibit a reminder of Cold War era < http://www.azstarnet.com/public/dnews/041-6917.html > After earning his master's degree in 1995, Powers and a partner founded a traveling display version of the Cold War Museum, which includes dozens of historical artifacts associated with the U-2 spy plane and the elder Powers. The exhibit will be featured until April 25, when Powers and company will move it to the National Atomic Museum in Albuquerque. - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.seacoast.com/~jsweet/brotherh/index.html > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade Long Binh, Can Tho, Danang (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 03:54:05 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: AF news article "Borrowing" again from the AFNEWS. ( Comment: I,d hate to have been in the cockpit on this flight. I,ve talked to P-51 pilots that made some of the long overwater flights to and from Japan, escorting B-29's, and they spoke of having to be helped out at the end of the flights. and using rubber bands to keep the stick centered so that if they fell asleep, they would,nt end up in the drink) My backside hurts just thinking of a 14 hour flight in a single seat aircraft.) ............................................................................ 990285. F-117s arrive at Aviano to support possible NATO operations by Tech. Sgt. Ann Bennett Air Force Print News AVIANO AIR BASE, Italy (AFPN) -- About a dozen F-117 Nighthawk aircraft from Holloman Air Force Base, N.M., began arriving here Feb. 21 to support possible NATO air operations over the former Republic of Yugoslavia. The stealth fighter pilots flew almost 14 hours non-stop from Holloman to Italy with the help of U.S. Air Force refueling aircraft. Each Nighthawk was refueled 18 times by three different groups of tankers during the journey -- KC-135 Stratotankers from Grand Forks AFB, N.D.; KC-10 Extenders from McGuire AFB, N.J.; and forward-deployed KC-135s from Fairchild AFB, Wash. Aircrews, maintainers and support people from Holloman have been arriving here aboard the Nighthawks and C-17 transport planes since Saturday -- and currently number about 250. Col. Kevin Smith, 49th Operations Group commander and leader of the second Nighthawk four-ship formation to arrive, called the stealth fighter "a national asset. "It's a one-of-a-kind airplane that other countries don't have. The radar-evading properties make it extremely difficult to defend against." The F-117s join a number of other deployed aircraft at Aviano, including F-16s from Spangdahlem Air Base, Germany; F-15Es from RAF Lakenheath, England; and EA-6Bs from Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point, N.C. Besides the F-16s permanently assigned to Aviano, other aircraft currently on base include EC-130s from Davis-Monthan AFB, Ariz.; A-10s from Spangdahlem; KC-135s from the Mississippi Air National Guard; Portuguese F-16s; Spanish EF-18s and a KC-130; and Canadian CF-18s. The deadline for the peace negotiations has been extended to 3 p.m. Tuesday, Feb. 23. NATO Secretary General Javier Solana has been given the authority to authorize air strikes against the former Republic of Yugoslavia should military force be needed. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 23 Feb 1999 22:06:25 -0800 (PST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: AF news article On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, John Szalay wrote: > ( Comment: I,d hate to have been in the cockpit on this flight. I,ve > talked to P-51 pilots that made some of the long overwater flights to and > from Japan, escorting B-29's, and they spoke of having to be helped out > at the end of the flights. and using rubber bands to keep the stick centered > so that if they fell asleep, they would,nt end up in the drink) > My backside hurts just thinking of a 14 hour flight in a single seat aircraft.) > ............................................................................ > The stealth fighter pilots flew almost 14 hours non-stop from Holloman to > Italy with the help of U.S. Air Force refueling aircraft. Each Nighthawk > was refueled 18 times by three different groups of tankers during the > journey -- KC-135 Stratotankers from Grand Forks AFB, N.D.; KC-10 Extenders > from McGuire AFB, N.J.; and forward-deployed KC-135s from Fairchild AFB, > Wash. Guess how the modern pilots stay awake... They inject themself with proteins. And guess how they manage not to go to the restroom, they use the same type of underwear of what the little kids use :) May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@cco.caltech.edu "Education is the ability to listen to almost anything without losing your temper or your self-confidence" Robert Frost ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:25:39 -0800 From: Colin Thompson Subject: Re: AF news article Although my first reaction to this was wow, a 14 hour flight, what a bear, something does not add up. The F-117 does have an auto pilot so it must be easier to fly than a P51 but 18 refuelings in 14 hours? That means you hook up to the boom every 40 minutes. Forgive me for my ignorance but I thought the F-117 had a little better range. 18 refuelings would be fatiguing. > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, John Szalay wrote: > > > ( Comment: I,d hate to have been in the cockpit on this flight. I,ve > > talked to P-51 pilots that made some of the long overwater flights to and > > from Japan, escorting B-29's, and they spoke of having to be helped out > > at the end of the flights. and using rubber bands to keep the stick centered > > so that if they fell asleep, they would,nt end up in the drink) > > My backside hurts just thinking of a 14 hour flight in a single seat aircraft.) > > ............................................................................ > > > The stealth fighter pilots flew almost 14 hours non-stop from Holloman to > > Italy with the help of U.S. Air Force refueling aircraft. Each Nighthawk > > was refueled 18 times by three different groups of tankers during the > > journey -- KC-135 Stratotankers from Grand Forks AFB, N.D.; KC-10 Extenders > > from McGuire AFB, N.J.; and forward-deployed KC-135s from Fairchild AFB, > > Wash. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 11:11:08 -0000 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: RE: AF news article From what I remember the last time they did it, they made sure it always had a three-quarters full fuel load, incase the next tanker wasn't there etc Gavin - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Colin Thompson Sent: 24 February 1999 08:26 To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: AF news article Although my first reaction to this was wow, a 14 hour flight, what a bear, something does not add up. The F-117 does have an auto pilot so it must be easier to fly than a P51 but 18 refuelings in 14 hours? That means you hook up to the boom every 40 minutes. Forgive me for my ignorance but I thought the F-117 had a little better range. 18 refuelings would be fatiguing. > On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, John Szalay wrote: > > > ( Comment: I,d hate to have been in the cockpit on this flight. I,ve > > talked to P-51 pilots that made some of the long overwater flights to and > > from Japan, escorting B-29's, and they spoke of having to be helped out > > at the end of the flights. and using rubber bands to keep the stick centered > > so that if they fell asleep, they would,nt end up in the drink) > > My backside hurts just thinking of a 14 hour flight in a single seat aircraft.) > > ............................................................................ > > > The stealth fighter pilots flew almost 14 hours non-stop from Holloman to > > Italy with the help of U.S. Air Force refueling aircraft. Each Nighthawk > > was refueled 18 times by three different groups of tankers during the > > journey -- KC-135 Stratotankers from Grand Forks AFB, N.D.; KC-10 Extenders > > from McGuire AFB, N.J.; and forward-deployed KC-135s from Fairchild AFB, > > Wash. > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 07:08:44 -0800 From: patrick Subject: RE: AF news article At 11:11 AM 2/24/99 -0000, Gavin wrote: >>From what I remember the last time they did it, they made sure it always had >a three-quarters full fuel load, incase the next tanker wasn't there etc > Or they told you that your VISA card was over the limit. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 17:14:54 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: RE: AF news article Patrick writes: >At 11:11 AM 2/24/99 -0000, Gavin wrote: >>From what I remember the last time they did it, they made sure it always had >>a three-quarters full fuel load, incase the next tanker wasn't there etc >> >Or they told you that your VISA card was over the limit. Patrick, Patrick, you're clearly not up to speed on the Black RAM coated AMEX card issued to all stealth aircrew. Prevents all those embarrassing AAR moments. Don't leave CONUS without one, as they say. Hope this helps :) D ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 16:38:20 -0700 (MST) From: hawiian99@mailcity.com Subject: Can You Afford Not To? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This message is sent in compliance of the new e-mail bill: SECTION 301. Sender: Claire Flory, 220 E. Ave P-4, Ca. 93550 ph: 805-273-3120 E-Mail Address: hawiian99@mailcity.com Per Section 301, Paragraph (a)(2)(C) of S.1618, further transmissions to you by the sender of this email may be stopped at no cost to you by sending a reply to this email address with the word "remove" in the subject line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! IMPORTANT! I need to share this with you IMMEDIATELY! This means your retirement from your JOB! I don't mean that lightly either... Only 20 minutes of your time and you be the judge! NO MLM and NO Get Rich Quick Deals! 5 digit income in less than 90 days! Interested? For more info on how you can attend a business briefing call that explains exactly how our program works, how we make it work for you, and how to be in profit in 14 days or less reply to: mailto:minnie20_00@yahoo.com?subject=tell_me_how! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:18:43 -0500 From: Frank Stadmeyer Subject: Remove ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 99 04:10:18 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Can You Afford Not To? I would recommend that none of the regular readers reply to this spam directly. I was sent to the skunk-works mail list and it will probably take a "remove" message from the skunk-works mail list to stop it. If you send a remove message to the skunk-list, it'll accomplish nothing because that isn't the originator of the message. if you send a remove message to , you might get a new spam, because now this robot will have your e-mail address. It might work if the list owner sends a "remove" message to the spammer with the skunk-works return address (we may all get that as well), because that will take that known address off its address list. That "bill" referred to in the opening wasn't passed, and what it was intending to do was make it a requirement that any e-mailer had to disclose how to stop further e-mails. On the surface it sounded good, but some spammers took that as a license to send more out [sigh]. For what it's worth... Art ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #12 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner