From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #15 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Thursday, March 4 1999 Volume 08 : Number 015 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message Hacking Skynet, Rubbish RE: skunk-works-digest V8 #14 Re: Hacking Skynet, Rubbish re: aurora... Re: aurora... Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution NASA X-33 Update Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution Re: Satellite resolution *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:51:21 -0500 From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.pmsc.com by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:51:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA19892 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:35:54 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA09216; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:35:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma009202; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:35:09 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22499; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:46:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22481; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:46:21 -0700 (MST) From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com X-Authentication-Warning: netwrx1.com: Host firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66] claimed to be seawall.pmsc.com Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA08744; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc.pmsc.com(170.30.70.239) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma008694; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:30:36 -0500 Received: from ccMail by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) id AA920371580; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:21 -0500 Message-Id: <9903029203.AA920371580@cc.pmsc.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:20 -0500 To: Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.pmsc.com by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA19853 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:30:53 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA08661; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:30:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma008622; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:29:27 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22031; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from zoo.e-z.net (root@zoo.e-z.net [192.243.32.12]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22026; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.e-z.net (03-133.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.133]) by zoo.e-z.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28455 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:40:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zoo.e-z.net: Host 03-133.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.133] claimed to be home.e-z.net Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990302023859.007654c4@e-z.net> X-Sender: patrick@e-z.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 02:38:59 -0800 To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com From: patrick Subject: New Stealth TV program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Av Week has an ad for a new stealth show on the Discovery cable channel. It is scheduled for 3/4/99 at 8pm EST/PST. This is a North America broadcast only. European broadcast soon, but no date. Australia?.....I think its scheduled for yesterday, check your local listings. The tape is also available at www.aviationweek.com and is entitled "STEALTH: Flying Invisible". patrick - --simple boundary-- - --simple boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:55:21 -0500 From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.pmsc.com by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:55:04 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA19934 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:39:55 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA09557; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:39:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma009530; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:39:06 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22946; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:51:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22920; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:51:23 -0700 (MST) From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com X-Authentication-Warning: netwrx1.com: Host firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66] claimed to be seawall.pmsc.com Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA09306; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:36:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc.pmsc.com(170.30.70.239) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma009258; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:35:40 -0500 Received: from ccMail by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) id AA920371881; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:51:25 -0500 Message-Id: <9903029203.AA920371881@cc.pmsc.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:51:21 -0500 To: Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.pmsc.com by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:51:03 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA19892 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:35:54 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA09216; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:35:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma009202; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:35:09 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22499; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:46:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22481; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:46:21 -0700 (MST) From: rob_ivey_at_pms-hub@pmsc.com X-Authentication-Warning: netwrx1.com: Host firewall-user@seaspray.pmsc.com [198.78.21.66] claimed to be seawall.pmsc.com Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA08744; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:31:17 -0500 (EST) Received: from cc.pmsc.com(170.30.70.239) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma008694; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:30:36 -0500 Received: from ccMail by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) id AA920371580; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:21 -0500 Message-Id: <9903029203.AA920371580@cc.pmsc.com> X-Mailer: ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01 Date: Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:20 -0500 To: Subject: cc:Mail Link to SMTP Undeliverable Message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="simple boundary" Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message is undeliverable. Reason: User "gregweigold@cc.pmsc.com" is not found in the cc:Mail Directory. Original text follows: - --------------------- - --simple boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ACSII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Received: from mail.pmsc.com by cc.pmsc.com (ccMail Link to SMTP R8.00.01) ; Tue, 02 Mar 99 05:46:02 -0500 Return-Path: Received: from seawall.pmsc.com (firewall-user@seawall.pmsc.com [170.30.174.10]) by mail.pmsc.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id LAA19853 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 11:30:53 -0500 Received: by seawall.pmsc.com; id FAA08661; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 05:30:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from netwrx1.com(192.41.8.79) by seawall.pmsc.com via smap (4.1) id xma008622; Tue, 2 Mar 99 05:29:27 -0500 Received: (georgek@localhost) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22031; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:40:32 -0700 (MST) Received: from zoo.e-z.net (root@zoo.e-z.net [192.243.32.12]) by netwrx1.com (8.8.5) id DAA22026; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 03:40:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from home.e-z.net (03-133.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.133]) by zoo.e-z.net (8.8.8/8.8.5) with SMTP id CAA28455 for ; Tue, 2 Mar 1999 02:40:22 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: zoo.e-z.net: Host 03-133.021.popsite.net [207.138.230.133] claimed to be home.e-z.net Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19990302023859.007654c4@e-z.net> X-Sender: patrick@e-z.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 02:38:59 -0800 To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com From: patrick Subject: New Stealth TV program Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Av Week has an ad for a new stealth show on the Discovery cable channel. It is scheduled for 3/4/99 at 8pm EST/PST. This is a North America broadcast only. European broadcast soon, but no date. Australia?.....I think its scheduled for yesterday, check your local listings. The tape is also available at www.aviationweek.com and is entitled "STEALTH: Flying Invisible". patrick - --simple boundary-- - --simple boundary-- - --simple boundary-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 13:50:30 EST From: Jasper0007@aol.com Subject: Hacking Skynet, Rubbish A senior defence industry analyst is contesting computer hackers' claims to have altered the course of one of the UK's military communications satellites. Scotland Yard's Fraud Squad is investigating allegations of blackmail at several international locations after the hackers reportedly demanded a ransom payment to stop interfering with a Skynet satellite. However, Paul Beaver, group spokesman for the Jane's Information Group, told BBC News Online: "I cannot see how it is possible for someone to hack in - it is a closed loop system, not connected to the Internet. "You cannot get in unless you get in the way of a microwave signal or are at one of the Ministry of Defence's (MOD) sending locations. The only way in would be through the American system during a time of war, but this is not a time of war. Cruise missiles depend on Skynet "Privately, the MOD are saying this is where the problem may be and are investigating whether there is an American leak. The UK system is much better as it is absolutely stand alone." The MOD told BBC News Online: "The story is complete nonsense. All our satellites are where they should be and doing what they should be doing. It's all systems go." But a hacking expert, David Levy, says: "They would say that, wouldn't they? To say you can't do something is ridiculous. "When people say something in software or hardware can't be done, they are being unrealistic. What they mean is they can see no way it can be done. "The RSA encryption algorithm was supposed to be uncrackable until two guys in Cambridge University did it. Nothing is impossible." Mr Levy runs Tiger Computer Security. The firm advises companies on security by hacking into their systems and then explaining how to close the loopholes they find. Skynet is essential The fifth Skynet satellite was launched on Saturday from French Guyana. The network provides support for strategic and tactical nuclear forces and maritime, air and land forces. The MOD describe Skynet as "essential to support all aspects of modern military operations". They are controlled by microwave signal. Unlike radio waves, which spread out in all directions, the microwaves used have a "pencil" beam. This spreads by only three centimetres for every 10,000km travelled. The location of the sending stations means that anyone wishing to intercept and change the signals would have to build a tower in south-west London. An alternative might be to send signals directly but Mr Beaver says: "This would require a "very, very high-powered transmitter and someone would have detected that. You can't just move your satellite TV dish around." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 16:42:08 -0500 From: "Miller, Stacy" Subject: RE: skunk-works-digest V8 #14 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:39:35 -0800 > From: patrick > Subject: Re: FWD: (UASR) Aurora musings [an excerpt] > > > For you Aurora finatic's.......We had one attend our annual air show here > at the local AF base last summer. Since its so rarely seen we were > surprised and pleased to see the plane. It was on static display on > saturday with the standard five man security guard surrounding it with it > being roped off from the public. But we could get within 30 feet of it. > It really is a beautiful sleek aircraft. Very futuristic looking if you > get a chance to admire it up close. The color was unique. A greenish, > purplish, black irridescent color. It kept changing depending on the > incident angle of sunlight hitting it. The pilot was there signing > autographs for the kids. Yes, I got one too, being a kid at heart. I did > ask why he wasn't wearing any identifying unit patches on his jump suit. > His reply was "no comment". He did say that he wore a special suit while > flying. > > On sunday the plane took off and did a flyby. The take off was not that > spectacular considering but remember this is a fast flyer and not designed > for quick performance from takeoff. The sound was like a blow torch in a > pipe. Quite eerie. The flyby was incredible. The announcer said it was > at least a Mach 3 pass at maybe 1000 feet. Total silence till after it > passed and then a sharp loud cracking sound, not unlike a bolt of > lightning > striking nearby. Many car alarms were set off and we found out later a > window in the control tower was shattered. The plane did a wide turn > (remeber the speed!) and landed. I noticed an extremely large drogue > chute > was used and later was told they had to borrow them from the Army where > they are used for air dropping M-1 Abrahms tanks. A bit of trivia for you > Aurora history buffs. After the show that day I observed them evidently > refueling the plane. A large white unmarked compressed liquid gas truck > arrived from the far side of the base. I thought it was odd not having > any > markings or even a license plate. We were quickly ushered off the base at > that point. > > This is such a phenomenal aircraft design which you have to see to > believe!! > > patrick > ___________________________________________________________________ As an avid fan and follower of the Aurora phenomenon I just wanted to reply to the list to express my sorrow for Patrick. I realize that he probably saw a beautiful aircraft at the show, but there is no way that it was Aurora. Also, I was a little disturbed that such a message was posted. This listed is checked first right? Straycatt "If ya don't know, you just don't know" ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 16:42:03 EST From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: Re: Hacking Skynet, Rubbish So much for the MOD, they don't know a whole lot about radio and satellite communications do they, or are they just blowing smoke up our butts to save face if this is true? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1999 18:48:24 -0600 (CST) From: jaz Subject: re: aurora... >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:39:35 -0800 >> From: patrick >> Subject: Re: FWD: (UASR) Aurora musings [an excerpt] >> >> >> For you Aurora finatic's.......We had one attend our annual air show here >> at the local AF base last summer. Could we get some more details, Which AF Base, what air show, how did you know it was "Aurora" and not some experimental plane. If it was the real thing, how was it you were privy to seeing it and no one else knows about it. Was this a 'secret' air show for families of the military or what? When I toured a government facility on 'family day' I saw some minor things that anyone without a clearance would never see. So maybe this was legit... Of course aurora is skunky by its very nature, and fully legitimate for this group. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 20:00:21 -0800 From: "Michael J. Poirier" Subject: Re: aurora... jaz wrote: > Could we get some more details, Which AF Base, what air show, how did you > know it was "Aurora" and not some experimental plane. If it was the real > thing, how was it you were privy to seeing it and no one else knows about > it. Was this a 'secret' air show for families of the military or what? Patrick, you are cracking me up!! If only you could've waited another month, maybe not everybody would have fallen for it! Hats off to a man with a sense of humor! - -Michael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:51:59 -0700 From: Patrick Wiggins Subject: Satellite resolution Greetings! I do a bit of talk radio (mostly local) and during my last show one of the topics was what can be seen from space Someone called saying he used to work for the Skunk Works and said that he had worked with satellite images with resolution sufficient to allow him to read 50 mm tall ID numbers on Soviet railroad cars. Does that sound accurate or was he pulling my leg? Carpe Noctem! Patrick :-) - -- Patrick Wiggins Hansen Planetarium Education Department email: p.wiggins@m.cc.utah.edu voice: 801.531-4952, fax: 801.531-4948 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:07:27 -0600 From: "Ben Williams" Subject: Re: Satellite resolution Does that sound accurate or was he pulling my leg? - ---------->>>>I've heard educated guesses that make that sound like the low-end resolution. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 16:42:23 -0600 (CST) From: jaz Subject: Re: Satellite resolution Patrick wrote: >Someone called saying he used to work for the Skunk Works and said that he had >worked with satellite images with resolution sufficient to allow him to >read 50 >mm tall ID numbers on Soviet railroad cars. > >Does that sound accurate or was he pulling my leg? Any idea why they have such high accuracy? Is this because of the optics, the film, the scanners in the satelite or what? Do they photograph for certain wavelentgths of light, target the subject with lasers for enhanced imaging, etc? When will we get this level of resolution in our 35 mm digital cameras, if ever? James ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:00:22 -0500 From: Martin Hurst Subject: NASA X-33 Update From NASA News List: "... The X-33 is a half-scale, suborbital technology demonstrator of a reusable launch vehicle (RLV) Lockheed Martin calls the VentureStar. The goal of the program is to demonstrate advanced technologies that will dramatically increase launch vehicle reliability and lower the cost of putting a pound of payload into space from $10,000 to $1,000. Currently being developed by NASA and Lockheed Martin Skunk Works, Palmdale, CA, the X-33 is scheduled for a series of 15 flight tests beginning in mid-2000. It eventually will fly at speeds between Mach 13 and 15 and at an altitude of 60 miles to prove its technologies and systems. ..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:18:56 EST From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: Re: Satellite resolution This sounds very low-res to me too. I remember in '90 or '91 listening to Atlantis takl with ground crews while testing some optics. AT the time they were flying over an old WWII airbase on an island. The ground crew asked the man on Atlantis to look at the base. The Shuttle crew reported seeing small weeds growing in cracks on the runway, counted leaves on the weeds, and petals on the flowers, and counted rivets on a peice of sheet metal lying on the ground. The ground crew mentioned they were using a 1,000 mm telephoto on a 35 mm camera! This is what I heard. Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz On Wed, 03 Mar 1999 14:51:59 -0700 Patrick Wiggins writes: >Greetings! > >I do a bit of talk radio (mostly local) and during my last show one of >the >topics was what can be seen from space > >Someone called saying he used to work for the Skunk Works and said >that he had >worked with satellite images with resolution sufficient to allow him >to read 50 >mm tall ID numbers on Soviet railroad cars. > >Does that sound accurate or was he pulling my leg? > > >Carpe Noctem! > >Patrick :-) > >-- >Patrick Wiggins >Hansen Planetarium Education Department >email: p.wiggins@m.cc.utah.edu >voice: 801.531-4952, fax: 801.531-4948 > > > ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 02:50:51 -0800 From: patrick Subject: Re: Satellite resolution At 09:18 PM 3/3/99 EST,Kurt wrote: >This sounds very low-res to me too. I remember in '90 or '91 listening >to Atlantis takl with ground crews while testing some optics. AT the >time they were flying over an old WWII airbase on an island. The ground >crew asked the man on Atlantis to look at the base. The Shuttle crew >reported seeing small weeds growing in cracks on the runway, counted >leaves on the weeds, and petals on the flowers, and counted rivets on a >peice of sheet metal lying on the ground. The ground crew mentioned they >were using a 1,000 mm telephoto on a 35 mm camera! This is what I heard. > The grain structure of film, especially in such a physically small sized negative as 35 mm would not be able to give you the resolution to do the above. What happens is the items are smaller than the grains of chemicals that give you the light/dark differences on the film. Similar to pixels if you will. They get only so small and that limits their resolution. And don't tell me its a super secret spy film developed by Kodak! patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 09:06:57 -0600 From: "Ben Williams" Subject: Re: Satellite resolution The grain structure of film, especially in such a physically small sized negative as 35 mm would not be able to give you the resolution to do the above. What happens is the items are smaller than the grains of chemicals that give you the light/dark differences on the film. Similar to pixels if you will. They get only so small and that limits their resolution. And don't tell me its a super secret spy film developed by Kodak! - -------------->>>>Actually, Kodak is one of the largest contractors that the government employs for intelligence and recon based programs. And yes, they do have "Super-Top-Secret film" that none of us know anything about. Ben ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:32:00 -0500 From: Drew Menser Subject: Re: Satellite resolution If the camera optics are capable of magnifying an image so that blades of grass are countable through the view finder, then I am sure there are off the shelf films which can record it. I think it would be a safe bet to say that with a 1000mm lens on a 35mm camera from 200 miles up, you will not be counting any blades of grass :-) To the original question, I have only heard that the capability exists to read license plates from space. I wonder what the earth would look like from Hubble (hehe)? Drew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 11:14:00 EST From: MELUMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: Satellite resolution Hasn't anyone heard of Dawes Limit? Optical resolution is limited by aperture, once the refracting and/or reflecting surfaces are perfected. It IS possible to resolve certain features of an image (such as lines, etc.) beyond the Dawes limit. But blades of grass? Wait a minute. That's folklore. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Mar 1999 10:46:33 -0700 From: Lee Subject: Re: Satellite resolution At 08:32 AM 3/4/99 , Drew Menser wrote: >To the original question, I have only heard that the capability exists to read >license plates from space. I wonder what the earth would look like from Hubble >(hehe)? I'm somewhat surprised at you guys especially Mr. Wiggins from the Hansen Planetarium who first posed the question of resolution when looking back at the earth. Why is the Hubble telescope up there and not down here? Because from up there, it does not have to look through 200 miles of atmosphere that is filled with dust particles, heat waves and other bits of optically degrading phenomenon. Any image photographed from up there, looking back toward earth, also has to look though 200+ miles of atmosphere. True, the worse parts are further away, but there are no miracles in optics or film that will totally over come these atmospheric distortions. My best guess on the resolution? Not as good as Hollywood would have you believe and not anywhere as bad as the government will admit. I always wonder who cares about reading a license plate that is mounted on the top of a car or wired to the top of the trunk lid. Maybe I just have the wrong idea about what the world looks like from above. Lee __ __ _ __ _ - ~~ l ~-_ http://www.users.uswest.net/~racing2win/ @~~ ------+--------~----____ Ex-Naval Aviation, 3 time Utah Karting @==/~_~\===|=~======|===/~_~\~~-, Champion, Still a kid at heart. \ ( (_) ) \_______| ( (_) )__ , 1987 Fiero GT Burgundy Red, CS >~~\___/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\___/~ ICQ 2403935 ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #15 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner