From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest)
To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com
Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #31
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skunk-works-digest      Wednesday, March 31 1999      Volume 08 : Number 031



     Index of this digest by subject:
***************************************************
[none]
Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS
Re: What happened to the f-117?
Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS
Re: What happened to the f-117?
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: rescue of F-117 pilot
Re: F-117 PR Machine ----- VERY LONG
Re: What happened to the f-117?
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Smithsonian A&S rebuttal
Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
Re: What happened to the f-117?
Month old picture of crashed F-117A
RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb (and Sea Shadow!)
RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
***************************************************

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:54:19 +0100
From: gavin.payne@cleancrunch.demon.co.uk
Subject: [none]

Just read that the Pentagon is issuing warnings about a dwindling stocks of
cruise missiles.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:02:28 -0500
From: "James P. Stevenson" <jamesstevenson@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS

You are breaking the code. Radar models have no imperfections. Airplanes 
always do. Therefore, they never live up to the stealth promised by the
model. But the model is what sells stealth. Get it?

Jim Stevenson

> One possible scenario for the downing of the stealth:
>
> The 117 gets a minor (non terminal) hit from a bullet, small arms fire, or
> flak/shrapnel.
>
> This cuts the skin of the a/c and increases the RCS.
>
> The serbs then pick it up on their SA3 radar, and sling off a missile at it.
>
>
> The big question, is how big an effect does minor skin damage have on RCS? I
> seem to remember in the Skunk works book, something about the RCS increasing
> dramatically when the rivets aren't screwed all the way in.
>
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:03:38 -0500
From: "James P. Stevenson" <jamesstevenson@sprintmail.com>
Subject: Re: What happened to the f-117?

> On 3/30/99 9:33AM, in message 
> <Pine.GSO.4.10.9903301221070.3851-100000@www.macp.org>, David Allison
> <allison@habu.org> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> Regardless of what brought down 82-806, keep in mind one thing about
>> the F-117A's during Desert Storm:
>>
>>              They went in FIRST.
>
>
> <snip>
>>
>> The early destruction of enemy air defenses made all future flights
>> at night above 10,000 feet safer for everyone.
>>
>>
>
>      I'm nowhere near as skeptical of the F-117 as Jim, but in the
> interests of
> accuracy, what went in first were UH-60s and AH-64s which blew a hole in
> the Iraqi
> radar warning net for the fixed wings to exploit.
>
>
>                     Art
>
Art speaks the truth, here.

Jim Stevenson

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:36:42 -0500
From: "Frank Markus" <fmarkus@pipeline.com>
Subject: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  Could
it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is it
another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon (like the
carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?  Or
could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?

- -----------------------

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MONDAY, MARCH 29, 1999 23:09:55 UTC XXXXX


RUSSIAN MILITARY ACCUSES USA OF TESTING NEW SECRET BOMB IN YUGOSLAVIA

Russian military officials late on Monday night accused the United States of
testing a new secret weapon in Yugoslavia -- a weapon that is somewhere
between conventional and nuclear!

"The United States is using Yugoslavia as a test range for its latest secret
means of destruction," representatives of the Russian Defense ministry told
reporters late Monday night.

The Pentagon refused immediate comment.

Russia claims that a bomb tested in Yugoslavia radically differs from
conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to destroy
radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday flashes.

The military said that the bomb generates an electric impulse similar to
electromagnetic fluctuations caused by a nuclear explosion.

They added that the bombs are being carried by two strategic B-2 bombers of
the Stealth technology.  Russian military officials provided no other
details.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:08:42 -0500
From: Brentley Smith <bsmith@zippynet.com>
Subject: Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS

[...]
>something about the RCS increasing
>dramatically when the rivets aren't screwed all the way in.


Damn those screw-in rivets!  I guess the military is really cutting corners
now....  :-)

Brentley

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:17:19 -0500
From: Drew Menser <dmenser@parrett.net>
Subject: Re: What happened to the f-117?

> >      I'm nowhere near as skeptical of the F-117 as Jim, but in the
> > interests of
> > accuracy, what went in first were UH-60s and AH-64s which blew a hole in
> > the Iraqi
> > radar warning net for the fixed wings to exploit.

I believe these were border radar installations, and if memory serves me
correctly (which anymore I am not sure of), the attack on the border radar
sites was timed close to the time the F117's hit Bagdad.

Personally, I think stealth works. If given the mission of flying to downtown
Belgrade to drop laser guided bomb, I think F-117 would be my first choice of
aircraft. Maybe the Bone next.

Drew

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 06:44:02 -0800
From: patrick <patrick@e-z.net>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

At 07:36 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  Could
>it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is it
>another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon (like the
>carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?

~~~snip~~~~~
 
>Or could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?
>conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to destroy
>radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday flashes.
>
=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yah, thats just what all our aircraft and surveillance vehicles need while
flying over enemy area is to  have all their electronic ability to be
disrupted.  

patrick

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 08:54:26 -0600
From: G&G <habu@cyberramp.net>
Subject: Re: rescue of F-117 pilot

Jeff Clark wrote:
> 
> Is there a reliable list of what got used?  I've seen one article
> say it was an HH-60 and a 'Super Jolly Green Giant', and another
> say MH-60 Pave Hawk and MH-53E Sea Stallion.  I would have
> thought that a -53J Pave Low would have gotten involved.

 I don't know for a fact what equipment was used in the extraction,
 but the group most likely to have gone in flies MH-60G and MH-53J
 helos (among other things)

    Greg


        %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
        %%                              %%
        %%   Reality is for People Who  %%
        %%    Can't Handle Simulation   %%
        %%                              %%
        %%      habu@cyberramp.net      %%
        %%       gdfieser@hti.com       %%
        %%                              %%
        %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:22:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Sam Kaltsidis <skaltsid@mcs.kent.edu>
Subject: Re: F-117 PR Machine ----- VERY LONG

> How would we have destroyed it? With bombs? We have trouble hitting

Special forces.

> bigger targets. You can take some satisfaction that the people standing
> around it as it burned were probably poisoned by the fumes.

Oh, yeah :))

Sam

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:37:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Sam Kaltsidis <skaltsid@mcs.kent.edu>
Subject: Re: What happened to the f-117?

> > On 3/30/99 9:33AM, in message 
> > <Pine.GSO.4.10.9903301221070.3851-100000@www.macp.org>, David Allison
> > <allison@habu.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Regardless of what brought down 82-806, keep in mind one thing about
> >> the F-117A's during Desert Storm:
> >>
> >>              They went in FIRST.
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >>
> >> The early destruction of enemy air defenses made all future flights
> >> at night above 10,000 feet safer for everyone.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >      I'm nowhere near as skeptical of the F-117 as Jim, but in the
> > interests of
> > accuracy, what went in first were UH-60s and AH-64s which blew a hole in


I thought they used MH-53J Pave Low's because they had awesome navigational 
equipment onboard. IRC the Apache's didn't have GPS back then.


> > the Iraqi
> > radar warning net for the fixed wings to exploit.
> >
> >
> >                     Art
> >
> Art speaks the truth, here.
> 
> Jim Stevenson

Sam

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:41:07 -0500 (EST)
From: Sam Kaltsidis <skaltsid@mcs.kent.edu>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

> At 07:36 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  Could
> >it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is it
> >another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon (like the
> >carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?
> 
> ~~~snip~~~~~
>  
> >Or could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?
> >conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to destroy
> >radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday flashes.
> >
> =-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> Yah, thats just what all our aircraft and surveillance vehicles need while
> flying over enemy area is to  have all their electronic ability to be
> disrupted.  


I believe (some of) our aircraft are protected from EMP.


> 
> patrick

Sam

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 13:06:02 EST
From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED <kc7vdg@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

I heard this announced on the news abuot a week and a half ago, that the
US was using EMP bombs!

Kurt

Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC
Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB
Based In Nevada, United States Of America
In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd,
Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt,
 Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz
>The military said that the bomb generates an electric impulse similar 
>to
>electromagnetic fluctuations caused by a nuclear explosion.
>
>They added that the bombs are being carried by two strategic B-2 
>bombers of
>the Stealth technology.  Russian military officials provided no other
>details.
>

___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:04:20 -0600
From: "Gregory Fieser" <gdfieser@hti.com>
Subject: Smithsonian A&S rebuttal

As he is cuurently unable to post to the list, Jay Miller asked me
 to repost to the list his rebuttal to the recent Oxcart story in
 Smithsonian Air & Space magazine.


    Greg Fieser



JNiessen@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Greg,
> 
> Smithsonian A&S printed my comments on Bill Burrows Oxcart story in their
> letters to the editor section...with a semi-rebuttal at the end. I have now
> rebutted the rebuttal, and it follows:
> 
> March 25, 1999
> 
> Mr. George Larson, Editor
> c/o Smithsonian Air & Space
> e-mail: editors@airspacemag.com
> 
> Dear George,
> 
> Once again I feel compelled to respond ref. my letter-to-the-editor printed in
> your April/May issue.
> 
> The "editor's reply" follow-on again contains serious errors of fact...and for
> the sake of history and in consideration of your magazine's extraordinary
> circulation, I would like to address these:
> 
> (1) Steve Pace, an old friend, wrote his unofficial history of the Skunk
> Works' aircraft family several years before I wrote my official history.
> Steve's work, though a worthwhile reference, was not given access to Skunk
> Works files and he knew virtually nothing about Project Gusto. His insights
> into that program were based primarily on word-of-mouth and rumor. He had
> access to no official documents. I reviewed the Gusto files and can tell you
> that Gusto was never envisioned as a high-speed reconnaissance platform.
> 
> (2) The "Project Oxcart" manuscript noted by Bill Burrows in his rebuttal was
> never officially released in full by the Central Intelligence Agency.
> Additionally, there are two, and possibly even three versions of that document
> in public circulation and they are each slightly different. I possess and have
> reviewed several of these and, based on my access to seminal documents in
> Skunk Works files, can say that they unfortunately contain several
> historically significant errors. The Central Intelligence Agency's side of the
> story is quite accurate, but information pertaining to the design and
> development of the A-12 by Lockheed is not seminal and uses designators and
> some time-line points that are incorrect. Additionally, items such as
> performance projections for the Convair Kingfish also are in error.
> 
> (3) "Kelly" Johnson's insights into the A-11 v/s A-12 designator controversy
> are outlined in my book, "Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works". It's irrelevant who,
> at the Skunk Works today, does not know about what went into the decision to
> have Pres. Johnson refer to the aircraft publicly as the A-12. Officially, and
> on all significant documents, the aircraft is referred to as the A-12. I
> repeat what I said in my last letter concerning the fact that I reviewed all
> twelve baseline design studies leading up to the A-12...and the similarities
> between the A-11 and the A-12 are almost inconsequential. My book contains an
> illustration of one of the original A-11 studies...and I believe you would
> have to be visually impaired not to note that it had little to do with the
> final design.
> 
> (4) I have contacted my friend Rich Graham and have asked him to write
> "Smithsonian Air & Space" ref. your quote from his book. I believe that letter
> will be self-explanatory.
> 
> Thanks for considering these issues once again, George.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jay Miller
>
>
- -- 

	%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
	%%				%%
	%%   Reality is for People Who	%%
	%%    Can't Handle Simulation	%%
	%%				%%
	%%	 gdfieser@hti.com	%%
	%%	habu@cyberramp.net	%%
	%%				%%
	%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:24:47 PST
From: "wayne binkley" <wbinkley@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Would a bullethole increase RCS

rivets are not screwed in.screws are.rivets are"set"

>From: "Andrew See" <asee@cscpo.canon.com.au>
>Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
>To: <skunk-works@netwrx1.com>
>Subject: Would a bullethole increase RCS
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:52:10 +1000
>
>One possible scenario for the downing of the stealth:
>
>The 117 gets a minor (non terminal) hit from a bullet, small arms fire, 
or
>flak/shrapnel.
>
>This cuts the skin of the a/c and increases the RCS.
>
>The serbs then pick it up on their SA3 radar, and sling off a missile 
at it.
>
>
>The big question, is how big an effect does minor skin damage have on 
RCS? I
>seem to remember in the Skunk works book, something about the RCS 
increasing
>dramatically when the rivets aren't screwed all the way in.
>
>
>



wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@hotmail.com>

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 10:45:24 PST
From: "wayne binkley" <wbinkley@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

let me see if i got this right.you guys don't believe anything an 
american"blue" suiter says but are ready to believe some russian quoted 
in the "drudge"report.talk about being biased.

wayne d.binkley <wbinkley@hotmail.com>


>From: "Frank Markus" <fmarkus@pipeline.com>
>Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
>To: "Skunk_Works_List" <skunk-works@netwrx1.com>
>Subject: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb
>Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 07:36:42 -0500
>
>I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  
Could
>it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is 
it
>another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon 
(like the
>carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?  Or
>could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?
>
>-----------------------
>
>XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MONDAY, MARCH 29, 1999 23:09:55 UTC XXXXX
>
>
>RUSSIAN MILITARY ACCUSES USA OF TESTING NEW SECRET BOMB IN YUGOSLAVIA
>
>Russian military officials late on Monday night accused the United 
States of
>testing a new secret weapon in Yugoslavia -- a weapon that is somewhere
>between conventional and nuclear!
>
>"The United States is using Yugoslavia as a test range for its latest 
secret
>means of destruction," representatives of the Russian Defense ministry 
told
>reporters late Monday night.
>
>The Pentagon refused immediate comment.
>
>Russia claims that a bomb tested in Yugoslavia radically differs from
>conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to 
destroy
>radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday 
flashes.
>
>The military said that the bomb generates an electric impulse similar 
to
>electromagnetic fluctuations caused by a nuclear explosion.
>
>They added that the bombs are being carried by two strategic B-2 
bombers of
>the Stealth technology.  Russian military officials provided no other
>details.
>
>
>

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:29:53 -0800
From: Dan Zinngrabe <quellish@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

>At 07:36 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  Could
>>it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is it
>>another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon (like the
>>carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?
>
>~~~snip~~~~~
>
>>Or could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?
>>conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to destroy
>>radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday flashes.
>>
>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Yah, thats just what all our aircraft and surveillance vehicles need while
>flying over enemy area is to  have all their electronic ability to be
>disrupted.
>
>patrick

HPM weapons tend to be very short range (as far as the field 
generated), and directed energy rather than burst. They also can 
affect most systems that are hardened against "noraml" EMP effects 
(such as those generated by high altitude atomic detonations). See:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Tomahawks fitted with HPM warheads?
http://www.softwar.net/emg.html

http://cool.icestorm.net/aeon/emp.html
A little about EMP protection...


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
The software you were born with helps
you follow thousands of different
threads on the Internet, whip up gourmet
feasts using only ingredients from
the 24-hour store, and use words
like "paradigm" and "orthogonal"
in casual conversation. It deserves
the operating system designed to work
with it: the MacOS.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:51:52 -0800
From: Dan Zinngrabe <quellish@gte.net>
Subject: Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

>>
>> Yah, thats just what all our aircraft and surveillance vehicles need while
>> flying over enemy area is to  have all their electronic ability to be
>> disrupted.
>
>
>I believe (some of) our aircraft are protected from EMP.
>
>
>>
>> patrick
>
>Sam

There are several different kinds of EMP protection, all offering 
protection from different frequency ranges. Most military aircraft 
have some form of protection against the threat from 
nuclear-initiated EMP. Very few are protected against the EMP effects 
of a high power microwave burst.

Dan


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
The software you were born with helps
you follow thousands of different
threads on the Internet, whip up gourmet
feasts using only ingredients from
the 24-hour store, and use words
like "paradigm" and "orthogonal"
in casual conversation. It deserves
the operating system designed to work
with it: the MacOS.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 12:55:59 -0800
From: Dan Zinngrabe <quellish@gte.net>
Subject: Re: What happened to the f-117?

>> > On 3/30/99 9:33AM, in message
>> > <Pine.GSO.4.10.9903301221070.3851-100000@www.macp.org>, David Allison
>> > <allison@habu.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regardless of what brought down 82-806, keep in mind one thing about
>> >> the F-117A's during Desert Storm:
>> >>
>> >>              They went in FIRST.
>> >
>> >
>> > <snip>
>> >>
>> >> The early destruction of enemy air defenses made all future flights
>> >> at night above 10,000 feet safer for everyone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >      I'm nowhere near as skeptical of the F-117 as Jim, but in the
>> > interests of
>> > accuracy, what went in first were UH-60s and AH-64s which blew a hole in
>
>
>I thought they used MH-53J Pave Low's because they had awesome navigational
>equipment onboard. IRC the Apache's didn't have GPS back then.
>

Actually, they did, but GPS at the time wasn't very useful for flying 
down wadi, at night, at high speed. Pave Lows lead the way using 
their INS, etc., and actually dropped IR glowsticks behind them 
periodically to leave a trail of "breadcrumbs" for the Apaches.

Of course, F-117s actually entered Iraqi airspace first, and were 
over their targets at the time of the rotary wing attack.Numerous 
decoys were also used- everything from Chukars to air launched 
unpowered gliders.
Dan


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
The software you were born with helps
you outthink Marketing (while making
less money), induce migraines at Microsoft,
and create animated, stereo, 3-D ,
interactive About Boxes.It deservess
the operating system designed to work
with it: the MacOS.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 22:31:58 +0200
From: "Stefan Dornbusch" <Stefan.Dornbusch@knuut.de>
Subject: Month old picture of crashed F-117A

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7BC6.49B089C0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There's a one month old picture of the crashed F-117A:

http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/news99/uns99072.htm



- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7BC6.49B089C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>There's a one month old picture of =
the crashed=20
F-117A:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://www.usafe.af.mil/news/news99/uns99072.htm">http://www.usaf=
e.af.mil/news/news99/uns99072.htm</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE7BC6.49B089C0--

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:03:08 -0500
From: "Frank Markus" <fmarkus@pipeline.com>
Subject: RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

I followed links in Don Zinngrabe's reply.  Extraordinary.  Not only was my
original question answered fully and clearly but his message and the other
messages in the thread demonstrated the power of the Internet and the
resources available on this list.  I am glad I asked.  I learned a lot about
a subject of which I was unaware and which I think is very important.

- -----Original Message-----
From:	owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]
On Behalf Of Dan Zinngrabe
Sent:	Wednesday, March 31, 1999 3:30 PM
To:	skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject:	Re: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

>At 07:36 AM 3/31/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>I found the following on the Drudge Report.  What does it refer to?  Could
>>it be the massive B-52 jamming power that has been discussed here.  Is it
>>another jamming-type device?  Is it a genuinely new type of weapon (like
the
>>carbon fibers that were used to disrupt the Iraqi electrical grid)?
>
>~~~snip~~~~~
>
>>Or could the Russians be playing at disinformation yet again?
>>conventional weapons. "It was created in Los Alamos and is aimed to
destroy
>>radio electronic equipment," the TASS newswire reported in Tuesday
flashes.
>>e
>=-=-=-==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>
>Yah, thats just what all our aircraft and surveillance vehicles need while
>flying over enemy area is to  have all their electronic ability to be
>disrupted.
>
>patrick

HPM weapons tend to be very short range (as far as the field
generated), and directed energy rather than burst. They also can
affect most systems that are hardened against "noraml" EMP effects
(such as those generated by high altitude atomic detonations). See:
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/kopp/apjemp.html

Tomahawks fitted with HPM warheads?
http://www.softwar.net/emg.html

http://cool.icestorm.net/aeon/emp.html
A little about EMP protection...


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
The software you were born with helps
you follow thousands of different
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 15:30:14 -0800
From: Dan Zinngrabe <quellish@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb (and Sea Shadow!)

>I followed links in Don Zinngrabe's reply.  Extraordinary.  Not only was my
>original question answered fully and clearly but his message and the other
>messages in the thread demonstrated the power of the Internet and the
>resources available on this list.  I am glad I asked.  I learned a lot about
>a subject of which I was unaware and which I think is very important.
>
>-----Original Message-----

I still want to know if the AF or USN actually used them :) AvWeek 
ran a few articles on plans to fit ALCM's with HPM warheads developed 
at Los Alamos and Sandia under a program name of Procyon, but I 
didn't have thoser references handy. soemtime in 1994 they ran those 
pieces, I think. Too back AvWeek back issues aren't on the web :)

The tool I used to find all of that info- I hadn't bookmarked such 
things in a long, long time- was a simple, but powerful desktop 
application called Sherlock, which makes internet searching a bit 
easier. (I'll plug a product that food any day).

Find things on the internet isn't easy, but once you've got the hang 
of it - or a good tool for it at your disposal- the internet becomes 
infintely more powerful. While looking up the EMP/HPM info I found 
countless articles and techical reports on hardening against EMP, 
various test programs and T&E ranges, etc. etc.

Which brings me to some things I found last week while searching for 
some skunky stuff-
The new James Bond movies features Sea Shadow, or at least it's 
movieland counterpart!
http://www.ianfleming.org/007news/articles/stealthship.html

Those tests a few years back that brough Sea Shadow out of the 
darkness apparently had quite a bit to do with AI and target 
recognition, and that part of it was codenames Solarwind: 
http://www.atl.external.lmco.com/projects/solarwind/solarwind.html
That page even has some nifty MPEG's of Sea Shadow if you have the 
bandwidth to view them :)

Dan


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The software you were born with helps
you outthink Marketing (while making
less money), induce migraines at Microsoft,
and create animated, stereo, 3-D ,
interactive About Boxes.It deservess
the operating system designed to work
with it: the MacOS.
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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1999 17:39:49 -0800
From: Dan Zinngrabe <quellish@gte.net>
Subject: RE: Drudge Report - EMP Bomb

Of note to those following the conflict in the former Yugoslavia: 
http://www.janes.com/defence/features/kosovo/orbat.html
The most current Yugo order of battle, courtesy of Jane's. One of the 
things that makes this conflict much different from that of Iraq is 
that even before the breakup of Yugoslavia it's military command and 
control structure was highly decentralized. Like Sweden, many 
airbases were not airbases at all, but highway offramps ending in 
buried aircraft combat shelters. MiG-29s routines trained in using 
the highways as runways, and such themes were common in the 
Yugoslavian defense posture.

In Iraq, once the C3I structure was destabilized by bombing, air 
power dominated. AAA forces were uncoordinated and for the most part 
firing blind. Pulling off the same feat in Yugoslavia today is a much 
more daunting task.

Anyway, interesting reading.
Dan


_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
The software you were born with helps
you outthink Marketing (while making
less money), induce migraines at Microsoft,
and create animated, stereo, 3-D ,
interactive About Boxes.It deservess
the operating system designed to work
with it: the MacOS.
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

------------------------------

End of skunk-works-digest V8 #31
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