From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #65 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Wednesday, June 16 1999 Volume 08 : Number 065 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Remove back to duty Re: back to duty Testing Re: Testing FWD: (TLCB) SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing [new subject] Re: FWD: (TLCB) SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing [new subject] SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing (fwd) OT: Internet condolence letter in memory of DeForest Kelley (Star Trek's McCoy) List Topics Re: List Topics VentureStar news Re: VentureStar news WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? [Aurora] Re: VentureStar news [Aurora] Re: [Aurora] RE: WERE WE VISITED... [Aurora] Death of Lt. General Robert M Bond in 1984 Re: Death of Lt. General Robert M Bond in 1984 Re: VentureStar news Re: [Aurora] RE: WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? [Aurora] *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 06 Jun 99 21:33:26 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Remove ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jun 1999 12:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: back to duty Hey guys, I am back to duty again. I just finished my Master of Science degree and starting my Ph.D. Any amazing recent news lately? Did Skunk Works finally reveled their anti-gravity propulsion system already?? Oppss... sorry, it was suppose to be secret ;) What are the current aviation relative news in Kosovo? May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@cco.caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ "You have been well trained, my apprentice. Those finals will be no match for you." The California Tech (Caltech newspaper) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jun 1999 09:16:05 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: back to duty Wei-Jen Su writes: [edit] > What are the current aviation relative news in Kosovo? Congratulations of the MSc ! I asked a similar question on how well the technology we talk about ( and some we don't like LGBs, JDAM etc) appear to have been performing a while ago. Either the post didn't make it to the list or it was of no interest to a single living soul :) I heard that DASA's Seamos VTOL UAV has been used in Kosovo and that was confirmed in AW&ST I understand. Looks a little like the CL-327 the USN has been testing. D ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 99 05:10:26 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Testing I didn't really want to be removed, hope I'm still on ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:13:50 +0000 From: georgek@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Testing On Wed, 09 Jun 99 05:10:26 GMT, you wrote: >I didn't really want to be removed, hope I'm still on > We see you Art! George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 414 541 8579 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 800 520 4873 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com West Allis, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com gkasica@hotmail.com gkasica@yahoo.com gkasica@netscape.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 08:54:02 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: (TLCB) SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing [new subject] Can anybody tell me where HABU MTN. is on that KADENA AFB aerial photo. That is where SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landed at Kadena AFB, Okinawa about 2 months (JULY 1972) after making an emergency landing at UDORN, (loss of both AC generators) during a photo recon mission over HANOI. The USAF buried her in a hill called HABU Mtn. (these birds don't burn too well). When I first looked at the runway specs, I saw 3,700 (thought it was feet) which would have made it shorter than all the RTAFB [Royal Thai Air Force Base] runways, that didn't sound correct - well, it's meters, so how long are those 2 runways in feet (don't have my covertion tables in front of me) ? We had a refueling stop at Yakota, AFB Japan, coming from Elmendorf AFB, Alaska on route to UDORN during TDY (Constant Guard II JCS Deployment - LB I) from Homestead AFB, FL - April 1972. JIM - "GED" ************************************************* In a message dated 99-06-09 10:22:37 EDT, you write: << Subj: TLC-Mission: URL / Okinawa bases, etc. Date: 99-06-09 10:22:37 EDT From: (Mekong Express) This URL is unbelievable: < http://www.pref.okinawa.jp/97/base/over_photo/index-e.html > It's aerial photographs of 39 US facilities on Okinawa. Sure has changed and you'll be fascinated by the unbelievable aerial shot of Kadena--I'm surprised the intel people let them get away with this! Your man in Vientiane, Jim - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 16:58:34 +0000 From: georgek@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: FWD: (TLCB) SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing [new subject] >When I first looked at the runway specs, I saw 3,700 (thought it was feet) >which would have made it shorter than all the RTAFB [Royal Thai Air Force >Base] runways, that didn't sound correct - well, it's meters, so how long >are those 2 runways in feet (don't have my covertion tables in front of me) ? According to my convert.exe program here: 3700 meters = 12139.07 feet. George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 414 541 8579 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 800 520 4873 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com West Allis, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com gkasica@hotmail.com gkasica@yahoo.com gkasica@netscape.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 14:31:53 EDT From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: SR71A # 978 "Rapid Rabbit" crash landing That sound about right. Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz >According to my convert.exe program here: 3700 meters = 12139.07 feet. > >George ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:24:48 GMT From: georgek@netwrx1.com (George R. Kasica) Subject: (fwd) OT: Internet condolence letter in memory of DeForest Kelley (Star Trek's McCoy) On Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:07:42 -0400, Leslie S Pearson wrote: This was forwarded to me by a reliable source. He was the first regular cast member of any of the series to pass away. Leslie Pearson lesliepearson@juno.com www.crosswinds.net/princeton/~lesliepear AIM: lesliepear - --------- Forwarded message ---------- This is from the moderator of rec.arts.startrek.info newsgroup, Jim Griffith. He is the Real Deal. This is a real effort to do something nice. I encourage people to join in on this. (snip) - -- As I did when Gene Roddenberry passed away, I'm officially organizing an Internet condolence letter for DeForest Kelley's family. Between now and midnight Tuesday, I will collect names from people who want to take part in the letter. If you are interested, please send the following information to ***** trek-info-request@xcf.berkeley.edu: ****** Name: Email address (optional): City, state, country: Please be sure to list your place of origin, as I was told that it meant a lot to Majel Barrett to see that information. Optionally, if you can think of something particularly heart-felt for us to say as a group, mention it. No humor, no cornball Trek references, just sincere sentiments please. On Wednesday, I will compile the list, draft the letter (which will probably end up being something of a book, as was the case with Gene's note), print it out nicely, and dispatch it. Try to keep your notes to me as brief as possible, as there is the potential for high volume, and I don't want this effort spoiled by an overloaded hard drive. Please feel free to email this article to friends or make it available via other Star Trek Internet resources. This is by no means a "USENET-only" effort, and I want to collect the names of as many well-wishers as possible. One other privacy note. Other than mailing them to families, your names and addresses will not be distributed, and the list will be destroyed when the effort is finished. - --Jim Griffith Moderator, "rec.arts.startrek.info" internet newsgroup "There's only one way to end this cycle of hatred and that's through love and forgiveness." -- Gabrielle, Xena: Warrior Princess "I'm not crazy. Just a little obsessed" Jake Sisko, ST:DS9's "In the Cards" - -*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~ *- SASHI ALEXANDRA GERMAN -- sashi@feith.com Star Trek fan, X-Phile, Xenite and Earth: Final Conflict fan KMAS\Now Voyager - that fantastic Kate Mulgrew fan club Sci-Fi convention review author - -*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~*-,._.,-*~'`^`'~ *- USS Thagard - NCC-652 - Internet Mailing List ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. George, MR. Tibbs & The Beast Kasica West Allis, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com gkasica@hotmail.com gkasica@yahoo.com gkasica@netscape.com http://www.netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'_' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 15:39:42 -0400 From: Thomas B Billups Subject: List Topics If this list is the wrong list for discussion of policy decision or UFO's or whatever then lets figure out if there are groups out there that focus on just this sort of thing. As a one time project we can compile a list of related lists. If there is a group out there that only discusses future LO navel platforms then we list it. Same with alternative propulsions or non-military super-mega-hyper-get-to-tokyo-yesterday test aircraft or genetically engineered chupacabra test pilots trained at Groom Lake by alien Al Gore clones. So on. I'm sure there's a list for every one. Thomas Billups ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:57:40 EDT From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: Re: List Topics I thought I was the only one who had photos of that !! There's more? Where's my Kodak 110? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America In use: Kenwood: TM-251A/E, TS-570d, Yaesu: FT-8100R, FT-2500M, FT50rd, Realistic: DX-394, Icom: IC-706MKII, Uniden: BC-200xlt, BC-760xlt, Whistler: CO403DC scanning video reciever 55-806 MHz >non-military super-mega-hyper-get-to-tokyo-yesterday test >aircraft or genetically engineered chupacabra test pilots trained >at Groom Lake by alien Al Gore clones. So on. ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 99 03:18:24 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: VentureStar news When Lockheed's concept for the X-33 was selected over some other concepts, including Clipper Graham, there was some skepticism because of the high risk involved. Some said that it got the nod because it represented the Big kind of program that NASA was so fond of at the time. The fact that it required much more extensive ground facilities than some of the other concepts was said to actually be a point in its favor. I don't know much about the validity of these opinions, but they were out there. G. Harry Stine for one pointed out that there was no identified use for a payload as big as what VentureStar was supposed to deliver (twice the effective payload of the Shuttle). He opined that Lockheed at the top may not have seriously been interested in VentureStar and if it didn't come to pass could say, "Gee, SSTO isn't feasible, but you know, we have these real nice Titans for sale". I don't know much about the validity of that either. I bring this up because of some reports surfacing in the European press. They say that Lockheed is now saying that VentureStar will need strap-on boosters to achieve orbit. In addition, without Government funding or loan guarantees they will not proceed with VentureStar. There is little or no interest in the financial community in the project and Lockheed will not invest in VentureStar. On the other hand, the privately developed Roton is gatherng funding and the Kistler Aerospace K-1 has raised 65% so far of the funding it needs to build five vehicles and two spaceports. One will be in Woomera. A great deal of funding is coming from the Pacific Rim, especially Taiwan. Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:59:59 EDT From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: Re: VentureStar news What is a Roton? Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:51:15 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? [Aurora] Am I the only one suspicious of a spy plane that is so easily recognised by the distinctive vapour trail ? - ----- (from The Sunday Mail (Brisbane) 13.6.99) WATCHING OVER US WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? by GRAEME O'NEILL AUSTRALIA may have been visited by a top-secret, supersonic American spy plane. Experts have come to this conclusion after studying reports of a bright object travelling at enormous speed at very high altitude over Australia's east coast in April and May. Several witnesses said they saw a bright light "dribbling molten metal" on several evenings at similar times. Australian authorities at first thought it was falling space junk, a comet or meteorites. But they now believe it was an aircraft. The United States Space Command took the unusual step of confirming a military satellite launched in 1994 had plunged back to earth around April 25, but heat-sensing satellites detected no space junk burning up in the atmosphere. Meteorites usually flare out in milliseconds and only the biggest are visible in daylight. Some clues to the nature of the mystery object came from two reliable observers - a husband and wife, both scientists, living in a Sydney harbourside suburb. They watched the object, low in the western sky, on at least seven cloudless evenings between April 26 and May 5 - always between 5.15 and 6pm. Despite its comet-like appearance, it was clearly moving when observed through binoculars. A comet would appear fixed in the sky. Several times it changed course by as much as 90deg and the man said a second aircraft appeared to intercept it as it descended. A passenger jet cruising at 12,000m is still faintly visible ahead of its vapour trail, but even through binoculars no aircraft was visible at the head of this trail. The only aircraft that could fit such a description does not officially exist but has been frequently seen near the US Air Force's top-secret Beale Air Base in California and over the remote Machrihanish Air Base, operated by the RAF and NATO in Scotland. The Beale base is the former home of the USAF Lockheed SR71 Blackbird spy plane, mothballed in 1994 because of spiralling operating costs. Strange sightings, strange sounds and sonic booms over a wide area of California suggest that even before the Blackbird's last flight, Lockheed's clandestine "Skunk Works" division had already fledged a replacement, a radical hypersonic spy plane code-named Senior Citizen, but better known as Aurora. Some witnesses reported a large, delta-winged landing at night at Beale Air Base in February 1992, in company with an F-111 fighter-bomber that may have been trying to conceal its identity. The mystery aircraft had a diamond-shaped lighting pattern that revealed nothing of its surface. But the spacing between its nose and tail lights was about 50% longer than the F-117 Stealth fighter. Residents of Pensacola, Florida, reported hearing "unusually loud, rumbling sonic booms" in November 1991, and at'least 30 unexplained sonic booms reported across a wide area of southern California in late1991 and early-1992 led aviation expert Bill Sweetman to conclude the mystery aircraft was already fully operational. Early in 1992, Aviation Week and Space Technologies magazine said RAF radars had acquired a "bypersonic target" travelling at between 30OOkm/h and 60OOkm / h over the Machribanish base in Scotland the previous November and again in January. The magazine has carried unconfirmed details of the Aurora's technology and performance. The titanium-clad spy plane is reputedly capable of flying up to 10,000km at speeds between Mach 4 and Mach 6 (410064OOkm/h) and at altitudes of up to 60,000m. The magazine has also reported that: "Aurora is being flown from a base in the Nevada desert to an atoll in the Pacific, then on to Scotland to refuel before returning to the US. "Specially modified tanker aircraft are being used to top up Aurora's tanks with liquid methane fuel in mid-air." The reports of an object "dribbling molten metal" could be explained by the aircraft's radical "pulser" engine, designed for hypersonic flight in the thin air of the stratosphere. The US is known to have tested a radical propulsion system called a Pulsed Detonation Engine, which uses an initial detonation to generate a high-velocity shock wave that acts like a piston, compressing a fuelair charge in the main combustion chamber. The fuel burns explosively, raising pressure in the engine and accelerating the combustion gases through a rear nozzle. On exit, the exhaust pulses create "smoke rings" that elongate into a segmented vapour trail resembling a string of sausages. Even if the Royal Australian Air Force knows, it could not confirm the flights - the Aurora is still classified as a "Deep Black" project. - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:08:20 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: VentureStar news Kurt asks: >What is a Roton? Try http://www.rotaryrocket.com It's Gary Hudson's manned SSTO vehicle. They rolled out the Atmospheric Test Vehicle out a while back. It uses a rotor to both pump fuel and provide some atmospheric braking on the way back down. The ATV, as its name implies won't be headed into space, but will test certain aspects of the atmospheric flight envelope. The URL will give you as much info as you could want. D ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:07:17 EDT From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: [Aurora] SO are we looking for soap on a rope or a string of sausages when we look for the Aurora? Is there more than one craft? Are there any photos of the vapor trails? The last ones there was a big thrill over on this list I must see a half dozen a day. Kurt Amateur Radio Stations KC7VDG/KK7RC Monitor Station Registry KCA6ABB Based In Nevada, United States Of America ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:49:13 -0700 From: Larry Smith Subject: Re: [Aurora] >SO are we looking for soap on a rope or a string of sausages when we look >for the Aurora? Is there more than one craft? Are there any photos of >the vapor trails? The last ones there was a big thrill over on this list There is not general agreement among researchers that what has been called Aurora exists. Also, the contrail photos that have appeared have never proven that Aurora exists, only that there may be an aircraft leaving an unusual contrail, that is worthy of legitimate efforts to explain them. The first scientific attempt to explain the contrails were published in AW&ST: AW&ST, October 28, 1991, pp. 68-69. This was an article that showed that a Pulsed Detonation Engine of a certain configuration could leave a similar contrail. This however does not prove that a PDE indeed laid the contrails in question. There are other engine configurations which can exhibit pulsing behavior over part of their regimes, and it is uncertain what such contrails would look like. The first set of interesting contrail photos were published in Aviation Week magazine: AW&ST, May 11, 1992, pp. 62-63. You might be able to find a copy of these somewhere on the Net. >I must see a half dozen a day. You are [probably] not seeing legitimate 'Aurora' (for lack of a better name) contrails. The evolution of standard contrails with time can form something that looks like the interesting contrail. Such contrails are not interesting from this standpoint. The interesting contrails appear in their final form directly out the back of the aircraft. So the interesting contrail has not had time to expand much, yet it still portrays the unusual structure. It is also good to know that the AW&ST contrail photos are a blowup of a section of contrail photo, so if one didn't know that, it would make one think that the actual interesting contrail resembled quite closely standard contrails that have expanded over time. This may have been the cause of the confusion and some associated skepticism (always healthy) regarding these contrails. Besides, the heart of the matter is what is laying the contrail. There are plenty of photos of interesting contrails today. We need to understand if anything interesting is laying them, or if they are a side effect of something else that is less sensational, but nonetheless interesting. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:19:00 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: RE: WERE WE VISITED... [Aurora] Terry W. Colvin reported [snippage] >Several witnesses said they saw a bright light "dribbling molten metal" on >several evenings at similar times... >Some clues to the nature of the mystery object came from two reliable >observers - a husband and wife, both scientists, living in a Sydney >harbourside suburb. They watched the object, low in the western sky, on at >least seven cloudless evenings between April 26 and May 5 - always between >5.15 and 6pm. I checked with an Australian who is an established sky-watcher about this and received the answer, "Several competent astronomers spent a lot of time over several nights trying to see what they saw. There was nothing." At the least, it would be nice to get more details as to who claimed to have seen what. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 16:28:44 -0700 From: "A.J. Craddock" Subject: Death of Lt. General Robert M Bond in 1984 On 27th April 1984, the LA Times reported that US Air Force Lt. General Robert M. Bond had been killed - his "Air Force specially modified test craft" had apparently crashed near Groom Lake at 10:45 a.m. Lt. General Bond was at the time a three-star general and Vice Commander of the US Air Force Systems Command, which would have made him one of the most senior military officers at the facility. At the time the Air Force refused to disclose precisely what type of aircraft the general had been flying, but suspicions were fueled by the unusual fact that a three-star general and base Vice Commander had been employed as a test pilot. Does any List member know if the aircraft type that crashed was ever advised by the Air Force? Tony Craddock ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 02:48:10 +0000 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Death of Lt. General Robert M Bond in 1984 At 04:28 PM 6/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >On 27th April 1984, the LA Times reported that US Air Force Lt. General >Robert M. Bond had been killed - his "Air Force specially modified test >craft" had apparently crashed near Groom Lake at 10:45 a.m. > >Does any List member know if the aircraft type that crashed was ever >advised by the Air Force? > >Tony Craddock > MIG-23 ? http://www-scf.usc.edu/~khelm/Losses.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 99 03:20:18 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: VentureStar news On 6/14/99 10:08AM, in message <996@writer.win-uk.net>, David wrote: > Kurt asks: > > >What is a Roton? > > Try http://www.rotaryrocket.com > > It's Gary Hudson's manned SSTO vehicle. They rolled out the Atmospheric > Test Vehicle out a while back. It uses a rotor to both pump fuel and > provide some atmospheric braking on the way back down. The ATV, as its > name implies won't be headed into space, but will test certain aspects of > the atmospheric flight envelope. > > The URL will give you as much info as you could want. > Also try http://www.hmx.com/roton.html > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 06:48:05 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: [Aurora] At 04:49 PM 6/14/99 -0700, you wrote: > >>SO are we looking for soap on a rope or a string of sausages when we look >>for the Aurora? Is there more than one craft? Are there any photos of >>the vapor trails? The last ones there was a big thrill over on this list > >There is not general agreement among researchers that what has been called >Aurora exists. > >Also, the contrail photos that have appeared have never proven that Aurora >exists, only that there may be an aircraft leaving an unusual contrail, >that is worthy of legitimate efforts to explain them. > ==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Thank you for your inciteful comments Larry. I suspect your expertise in jet engine theory gives you an insight to the production of vapor trails. I was afraid we were becoming just another Art Bell type bulletin board. Unfortunately the shear number of these types of "sighting" reports are convincing far too many non-discriminating true believers. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 21:30:43 -0400 From: "Clark, Scott (S.R.)" Subject: RE: WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? [Aurora] Signed, Bob Lazarr... - -----Original Message----- From: Terry W. Colvin [mailto:fortean@primenet.com] Sent: Monday, June 14, 1999 1:51 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? [Aurora] Am I the only one suspicious of a spy plane that is so easily recognised by the distinctive vapour trail ? - ----- (from The Sunday Mail (Brisbane) 13.6.99) WATCHING OVER US WERE WE VISITED BY THIS STRANGE BIRD ? by GRAEME O'NEILL AUSTRALIA may have been visited by a top-secret, supersonic American spy plane. Experts have come to this conclusion after studying reports of a bright object travelling at enormous speed at very high altitude over Australia's east coast in April and May. Several witnesses said they saw a bright light "dribbling molten metal" on several evenings at similar times. Australian authorities at first thought it was falling space junk, a comet or meteorites. But they now believe it was an aircraft. The United States Space Command took the unusual step of confirming a military satellite launched in 1994 had plunged back to earth around April 25, but heat-sensing satellites detected no space junk burning up in the atmosphere. Meteorites usually flare out in milliseconds and only the biggest are visible in daylight. Some clues to the nature of the mystery object came from two reliable observers - a husband and wife, both scientists, living in a Sydney harbourside suburb. They watched the object, low in the western sky, on at least seven cloudless evenings between April 26 and May 5 - always between 5.15 and 6pm. Despite its comet-like appearance, it was clearly moving when observed through binoculars. A comet would appear fixed in the sky. Several times it changed course by as much as 90deg and the man said a second aircraft appeared to intercept it as it descended. A passenger jet cruising at 12,000m is still faintly visible ahead of its vapour trail, but even through binoculars no aircraft was visible at the head of this trail. The only aircraft that could fit such a description does not officially exist but has been frequently seen near the US Air Force's top-secret Beale Air Base in California and over the remote Machrihanish Air Base, operated by the RAF and NATO in Scotland. The Beale base is the former home of the USAF Lockheed SR71 Blackbird spy plane, mothballed in 1994 because of spiralling operating costs. Strange sightings, strange sounds and sonic booms over a wide area of California suggest that even before the Blackbird's last flight, Lockheed's clandestine "Skunk Works" division had already fledged a replacement, a radical hypersonic spy plane code-named Senior Citizen, but better known as Aurora. Some witnesses reported a large, delta-winged landing at night at Beale Air Base in February 1992, in company with an F-111 fighter-bomber that may have been trying to conceal its identity. The mystery aircraft had a diamond-shaped lighting pattern that revealed nothing of its surface. But the spacing between its nose and tail lights was about 50% longer than the F-117 Stealth fighter. Residents of Pensacola, Florida, reported hearing "unusually loud, rumbling sonic booms" in November 1991, and at'least 30 unexplained sonic booms reported across a wide area of southern California in late1991 and early-1992 led aviation expert Bill Sweetman to conclude the mystery aircraft was already fully operational. Early in 1992, Aviation Week and Space Technologies magazine said RAF radars had acquired a "bypersonic target" travelling at between 30OOkm/h and 60OOkm / h over the Machribanish base in Scotland the previous November and again in January. The magazine has carried unconfirmed details of the Aurora's technology and performance. The titanium-clad spy plane is reputedly capable of flying up to 10,000km at speeds between Mach 4 and Mach 6 (410064OOkm/h) and at altitudes of up to 60,000m. The magazine has also reported that: "Aurora is being flown from a base in the Nevada desert to an atoll in the Pacific, then on to Scotland to refuel before returning to the US. "Specially modified tanker aircraft are being used to top up Aurora's tanks with liquid methane fuel in mid-air." The reports of an object "dribbling molten metal" could be explained by the aircraft's radical "pulser" engine, designed for hypersonic flight in the thin air of the stratosphere. The US is known to have tested a radical propulsion system called a Pulsed Detonation Engine, which uses an initial detonation to generate a high-velocity shock wave that acts like a piston, compressing a fuelair charge in the main combustion chamber. The fuel burns explosively, raising pressure in the engine and accelerating the combustion gases through a rear nozzle. On exit, the exhaust pulses create "smoke rings" that elongate into a segmented vapour trail resembling a string of sausages. Even if the Royal Australian Air Force knows, it could not confirm the flights - the Aurora is still classified as a "Deep Black" project. - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #65 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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