From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #93 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Friday, August 13 1999 Volume 08 : Number 093 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Machrianish et al. Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site Tri-Lateral Commission Membership List Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site FWD: (UASR) Re(33): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES FWD: (UASR) Re(33): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES Re: SR-71 top speed. Was: Re: That Aurora Budget Line/ B-2 Competition Funding ? Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:56:46 -0700 From: Steve Apthorpe Subject: Re: Machrianish et al. > Since then I've collected 2 more stories of that night, from two > radically different perspectives, but those (if they're published at > all) will wait for v2.0 of the website or a book :) Holding back two pearlers is hardly very 'cyberpunk' [information wants to be free, and all that] of you Dan! I would love to hear (at least off-list) the jist of them (i.e. one said its a load of old cobblers, and the other said it was 'Aurora,' its actually made by Boeing, and here's a picture). Don't worry, I'll still buy your book, assuming you get round to writing it quicker than you get round to updating your web site :^) > More interesting is a sighting of a U-2 like aircraft on the moors > around the same time, that will definitely be in Black Dawn 2.0 (yup, > still have it Chris G.). Again, do tell. I'm assuming by 'moors' you mean the area around BD (for clarity, its actually 'downs,' hence the name, and is on Salisbury Plain), and, again, assuming the aircraft operated out of BD. I hope that it is not being confused with the powered glider (can't remember the name) for the Air Training Corps that BD tested, especially if Chris G. is 'the' Chris Gibson. There was also the (Grob, Egrett? also can't remember) high-altitude recce aircraft for the Luftwaffe that flew (the order was later cancelled), that could conceivably have been evaluated at BD. > For better or for worse, no (American) Little Birds were on the scene > at the time. How are you privvy to this information? (Request: if you can't say, please do not quote 'Top Gun' at me ... :) > The C-5's supposed destination does raise some eyebrows though. Why? There are C-5's flying all round the world. BD is the closest secure, C-5 capable runway near the Salisbury Plain ranges; it, then, also had the infrastructure (Hardened Aircraft Shelters etc) to support USAF F-111's, maybe they were bringing support equipment for them. That simply a C-5 landed (could be visiting, could have had an unserviceability and diverted) is not proof of anything. I heard/read (again NOT from father) that the C-5 only went to the helicopter side of the runway (helicopter test flying is based on the other side of the runway from the fixed wing flying, which led to my MH-6 speculation). If this were true, then its more believable that they were bringing a 'stealth helicopter' (the US have announced that there are two prototypes that fly/have flown at Groom Lake). Having said that, I still find it hard to believe that they would operate anything this sensitive outside their secure areas on CONUS. > The speculation that it was one of the C-5's that is configured to carry > "special" cargo is irrelevant. It could only be of any relevance if the modified C-5's were dedicated to the "special" cargo mission, else it was just a C-5 landing. > You forgot to mention the mysterioso mach 6 airplane covered under a tarp > near the end of the runway where it crashed. The road was closed to > prevent viewing, the C5 was to haul off the wreckage..... Well I did and I didn't, Patrick!, but you are quite right to raise the issue (my last post was getting too long, as is this one...). With no crashed plane there couldn't be any wreckage! As to road closure, well which road was closed? The whole Amesbury - Salisbury road? Definitely not. Was the part of this road known locally as 'low flying corner' (near the end of the runway) closed, apparently. Was the road from 'low flying corner' to Porton closed, not from what I've been told. (This road runs parallel to the runway, at the same end as the 'wreckage,' and the other end of the road can be reached by other back roads.) Was the farmers land that lies eachside of the runway/Porton road cordoned off to a point that the 'wreckage' could not be seen, practically impossible (Beacon Hill would've provided a distant viewpoint (I guess about 2 miles) and they certainly didn't close the A303!) These are all vantage points, so, the 'wreckage' was in plain view (anyone who said 'hiding in the light' will get a spanked bottom.) By now, it should be apparent, to those that didn't realise, that BD is NOT Groom Lake. What was seen, as I understand it, was the Merlin (Westland's Sea King replacement) test platform (it mimicks the landing deck of a ship). Any credible source would have observed this structure over a period of time, and seen for themselves. Can I be 100% sure nothing 'black' happened? No. However, there is a burden of evidence required to support these claims (including countering all of the evidence pointing against this 'incident') that is far in excess of anything yet presented. I just wish I had been visiting in 1994 ... Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 05:46:28 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site At 03:31 AM 8/12/99 GMT, you wrote: >On 8/11/99 7:19PM, in message <3.0.1.32.19990811191923.00770884@e-z.net>, patrick > wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> ABC has cancelled a production by produced by Oliver Stone about the >> downing >> >> of TWA Flight 800 and why it was likely downed by a missile. >> >> >> Write David Westin, President of ABC News >> 0000,0000,ffffwestind@abc.com> > >> and urge him to >> >> broadcast the Stone documentary. >> >> >> >> What? And go against the Tri-Lateral Commission. They brought that plane down >> for a reason and far be it for me to question their motives. >> > > > But Oliver Stone would be involved! Only he could reveal the absolutely true >dream proving that the Boy Scouts, Harry Houdini, the entire population (sworn to >secrecy) of Rhode Island and other unindicted co-conspirators fired a stealth >missile from a submerged submarine for the purpose of silencing everyone aboard >that 747 (including the space aliens that invented the SR-71, the F-117, all >twin-tailed aircraft and Saran Wrap) all of whom were involved in the Kennedy >assassination. In addition, it would Prove that Richard M. Nixon gave the order >before he left the White House, and his lackeys only waited until now when our >guard was down. > > Coincidence that Pan Am 103 and TWA 800 were both planning to cross the Same >ocean? I think not! > Art---You may joke around and make light of all this but when the MIB's knock on your door you will be whistling an entirely differernt tune. You will call me if you see any of them, won't you? patrick ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:19:37 -0400 From: "Andrew Morris" Subject: Tri-Lateral Commission Membership List This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEE4A3.CC945D30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit My goodness, I am new to the list, but I haven't heard mention of the Tri-Lateral Comm in probably 15 years. Is it a "topic" on the s-w list often, or was this just a driblet of sarcasm?? Andy Morris What? And go against the Tri-Lateral Commission. They brought that plane down for a reason and far be it for me to question their motives. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEE4A3.CC945D30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
My goodness, I am new to the list, but I haven't heard mention = of the=20 Tri-Lateral Comm in probably 15 years.  Is it a "topic" = on the=20 s-w list often, or was this just a driblet of = sarcasm??
 
Andy Morris

 

What? And go against the = Tri-Lateral=20 Commission. They brought that plane down for a reason and far be it for = me to=20 question their motives. - ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BEE4A3.CC945D30-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 09:30:39 -0700 From: "A.J. Craddock" Subject: Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site - --=====================_88836417==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I have no personal knowledge of what brought down either TWA 800 or PanAm 121, but I do find it disrespectful to the hundreds of innocent Americans and others who perished in these disasters to treat the matter with deliberately ill-informed levity. Perhaps I am all wet and should just regard the loss of a few hundred civilian air passengers as just another distraction from being vigilant against "the enemy", and something that should reflexively be swept under the rug and treated with derision. Having heard KTLA TV in Los Angeles report that the TWA Pilot's Association were informed by Pentagon sources that TWA 800 was brought down by "friendly fire" one can certainly assume that all is not as it seems, especially when this is coupled to the other anomalies extant to this event. Interesting, too that you should feel that this event is joined at the hip with the PanAm 121 incident, which it may well be genealogically. In the case of PanAm 121, which ex-DIA agent Lester Coleman's book "The Trail of the Octopus" shows was carrying its usual load of DEA sponsored drugs from Syria to Detroit when a bomb was substituted (or added) in Frankfurt, again, all is not as it seems. Especially as Lester Coleman recently had his "perjury" conviction quashed in a bizarre sealed ruling that neither Coleman nor his lawyers can read - Coleman is now suing the US Government for $10 Million. Attached below is the news article. So, in conclusion, let's have some respect for the dead, please, as they all may well have perished as the result of criminal acts by rogue elements operating outside the Constitution of the United States - the very elements who Constitutionally should have protected them. Relevance to Skunkworks List? I was just following a previous thread started by others. Tony Craddock ____________ THE SUNDAY TIMES(UK) http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/cgi-bin/BackIssue?1124027 June 13 1999 SCOTLAND Court clears Lockerbie claim agent by Marcello Mega A FORMER American intelligence officer convicted of perjury after alleging United States complicity in the Lockerbie bombing has been cleared by a court of appeal. Lester Coleman, who was convicted of perjury last year, had the verdict overturned last month. He is living with his wife and three children in Kentucky and in the past few days has launched an action for $10m against the American government. Three judges issued a sealed ruling, an unusual step which means that not even Coleman and his lawyers can read why they quashed his conviction. Reporting restrictions also ensured the case received little attention in the United States. Coleman was dismissed as a conman by American investigators and the Scottish Crown Office when he expressed a theory that an American >intelligence-controlled drug-running operation had facilitated the loading of a bomb on Pan Am flight 103. The bomb exploded over Lockerbie on December 21, 1988, killing 270 people. Two Libyans are to be tried for the mass murder by a Scottish court in Holland next year. Coleman was ostracised by his bosses and found himself facing charges of applying for a passport in a false name and committing perjury in an action heard some years before. The passport application, he said, had been made under orders from his bosses at the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA). When he found he could not reach his superiors, he decided to flee the country. He and his family were granted political asylum in Sweden in 1990. In 1994 they moved to Spain. Coleman's story - that American agents were allowing deliveries of drugs on transatlantic flights in a sting operation which allowed terrorists to switch a case containing drugs for one holding a bomb - was widely discredited. Coleman's credibility took a severe knock in 1993 when the publishers of The Trail of the Octopus, a book he cowrote about the bombing, had to pay substantial libel damages. The American authorities went to great lengths and huge expense to discover his whereabouts and to seek his extradition. Eventually Coleman decided in 1996 to return of his own volition and face charges. After months of imprisonment he was released last year after a guilty plea and a fine of $30,000. _______________________ Perhaps At 03:31 AM 8/12/99 +0000, you wrote: >On 8/11/99 7:19PM, in message <3.0.1.32.19990811191923.00770884@e-z.net>, patrick > wrote: >> >> ABC has cancelled a production by produced by Oliver Stone about the >> downing >> >> of TWA Flight 800 and why it was likely downed by a missile. >> >> >> Write David Westin, President of ABC News >> 0000,0000,ffffwestind@abc.com> > >> and urge him to >> >> broadcast the Stone documentary. >> >> >> >> What? And go against the Tri-Lateral Commission. They brought that plane down >> for a reason and far be it for me to question their motives. >> > > > But Oliver Stone would be involved! Only he could reveal the absolutely true >dream proving that the Boy Scouts, Harry Houdini, the entire population (sworn to >secrecy) of Rhode Island and other unindicted co-conspirators fired a stealth >missile from a submerged submarine for the purpose of silencing everyone aboard >that 747 (including the space aliens that invented the SR-71, the F-117, all >twin-tailed aircraft and Saran Wrap) all of whom were involved in the Kennedy >assassination. In addition, it would Prove that Richard M. Nixon gave the order >before he left the White House, and his lackeys only waited until now when our >guard was down. > > Coincidence that Pan Am 103 and TWA 800 were both planning to cross the Same >ocean? I think not! > > Art > - --=====================_88836417==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" I have no personal knowledge of what brought down either TWA 800 or PanAm 121, but I do find it disrespectful to the hundreds of innocent Americans and others who perished in these disasters to treat the matter with deliberately ill-informed levity.

Perhaps I am all wet and should just regard the loss of a few hundred civilian air passengers as just another distraction from being vigilant against "the enemy", and something that should reflexively be swept under the rug and treated with derision.

Having heard KTLA TV in Los Angeles report that the TWA Pilot's Association were informed by Pentagon sources that TWA 800 was brought down by "friendly fire" one can certainly assume that all is not as it seems, especially when this is coupled to the other anomalies extant to this event.

Interesting, too that you should feel that this event is joined at the hip with the PanAm 121 incident, which it may well be genealogically.

In the case of PanAm 121, which ex-DIA agent Lester Coleman's book "The Trail of the Octopus" shows was carrying its usual load of DEA sponsored drugs from Syria to Detroit when a bomb was substituted (or added) in Frankfurt, again, all is not as it seems.

Especially as Lester Coleman recently had his "perjury" conviction quashed in a bizarre sealed ruling that neither Coleman nor his lawyers can read - Coleman is now suing the US Government for $10 Million.

Attached below is the news article.

So, in conclusion, let's have some respect for the dead, please, as they all may well have perished as the result of criminal acts by rogue elements operating outside the Constitution of the United States - the very elements who Constitutionally should have protected them.

Relevance to Skunkworks List?  I was just following a previous thread started by others.

Tony Craddock

____________

THE SUNDAY TIMES(UK)

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/cgi-bin/BackIssue?1124027

June 13 1999 SCOTLAND
Court clears Lockerbie claim agent
by Marcello Mega

A FORMER American intelligence officer convicted of perjury after alleging
United States complicity in the Lockerbie bombing has been cleared by a
court of appeal.

Lester Coleman, who was convicted of perjury last year, had the verdict
overturned last month. He is living with his wife and three children in
Kentucky and in the past few days has launched an action for $10m against
the American government.

Three judges issued a sealed ruling, an unusual step which means that not
even Coleman and his lawyers can read why they quashed his conviction.
Reporting restrictions also ensured the case received little attention in
the United States.

Coleman was dismissed as a conman by American investigators and the
Scottish Crown Office when he expressed a theory that an American
>intelligence-controlled drug-running operation had facilitated the loading
of a bomb on Pan Am flight 103.

The bomb exploded over Lockerbie on December 21, 1988, killing 270 people.
Two Libyans are to be tried for the mass murder by a Scottish court in
Holland next year.

Coleman was ostracised by his bosses and found himself facing charges of
applying for a passport in a false name and committing perjury in an action
heard some years before. The passport application, he said, had been made
under orders from his bosses at the Defence Intelligence Agency (DIA).

When he found he could not reach his superiors, he decided to flee the
country. He and his family were granted political asylum in Sweden in 1990.
In 1994 they moved to Spain.

Coleman's story - that American agents were allowing deliveries of drugs on
transatlantic flights in a sting operation which allowed terrorists to
switch a case containing drugs for one holding a bomb - was widely
discredited.

Coleman's credibility took a severe knock in 1993 when the publishers of
The Trail of the Octopus, a book he cowrote about the bombing, had to pay
substantial libel damages.

The American authorities went to great lengths and huge expense to discover
his whereabouts and to seek his extradition. Eventually Coleman decided in
1996 to return of his own volition and face charges. After months of
imprisonment he was released last year after a guilty plea and a fine of
$30,000.

_______________________


Perhaps At 03:31 AM 8/12/99 +0000, you wrote:
>On 8/11/99 7:19PM, in message <3.0.1.32.19990811191923.00770884@e-z.net>, patrick
><patrick@e-z.net> wrote:
>>
>> ABC has cancelled a production by produced by Oliver Stone about the
>> downing
>>
>> of TWA Flight 800 and why it was likely downed by a missile.
>>
>>
>> Write David Westin, President of ABC News
>> <underline><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>westind@abc.com</color></underline
>> >
>> and urge him to
>>
>> broadcast the Stone documentary.
>>
>> </excerpt>
>>
>> What?  And go against the Tri-Lateral Commission.  They brought that plane down
>> for a reason and far be it for me to question their motives.
>>
>
>
>     But Oliver Stone would be involved!  Only he could reveal the absolutely true
>dream proving that the Boy Scouts, Harry Houdini, the entire population (sworn to
>secrecy) of Rhode Island and other unindicted co-conspirators fired a stealth
>missile from a submerged submarine for the purpose of silencing everyone aboard
>that 747 (including the space aliens that invented the SR-71, the F-117, all
>twin-tailed aircraft and Saran Wrap) all of whom were involved in the Kennedy
>assassination.  In addition, it would Prove that Richard M. Nixon gave the order
>before he left the White House, and his lackeys only waited until now when our
>guard was down. 
>
>     Coincidence that Pan Am 103 and TWA 800 were both planning to cross the Same
>ocean?  I think not! 
>
>                                        Art
> - --=====================_88836417==_.ALT-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:06:53 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: (UASR) Re(33): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES In a message dated 8/9/99 2:50:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, matthews writes: > The onus is upon you, because you accept Corso's claims and those > reportedly of John Andrews and the recovered technology crew, to provide > evidence. Tim, there is no "onus' on anyone. If you have substantiated evidence that the experiences and conclusions of Col. Corso, or anyone else either involved in serious, scholarly and objective investigation of the Roswell case or related phenomena over the past 50 years, has no basis in fact, please identify that evidence. As far as I'm concerned, my own experiences speak for themselves, my conclusions are based upon both empirical and researched data, and those experiences corroborate the work of several eminently qualified UFO researchers and authors. Once again, if you have valid, incontrovertible proof that Col. Corso was anything other than what he said he was, or that his saga was pure fiction, I'd be delighted to accept the my conclusions are wrong, and the sceptics are right. So far. neither you nor anyone else has been able to provided any valid, incontrovertible evidence whatsoever that Col. Corso was a phoney, that an alien vehicle was not recovered at Roswell, or that this planet has not been periodically visited by extraterrestial/ extradimensional intelligences since the birth of the solar system. Inventing terrestial technologies that never existed won't do it. ron - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:01:38 -0700 From: Larry Smith Subject: FWD: (UASR) Re(33): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES >if you have valid, incontrovertible proof that Col. Corso was >anything other than what he said he was, or that his saga was pure fiction, >I'd be delighted to accept the my conclusions are wrong, ... >So far. neither you nor anyone else has been able to provided any >valid, incontrovertible evidence whatsoever that Col. Corso was a phoney, >... That is the problem isn't it! The "believers" believe UNTIL the claim is proven false. Others believe AFTER it is proven true, and NOT before. That is the fundamental difference that makes such discussions impossible, to say the least, neglecting the fact that such discussions are off charter. I knew John Andrews personally. I AM familiar with the evidence that Bill McDonald claims he knows about. Bill McDonald has GROSSLY misstated what Ben Rich said. In fact, there are some published accounts of what Ben Rich said, and he doesn't even have the knowledge of those to check his statements. Believe me, you believers just latch on to whatever you read someplace. This is the probem with your belief system, you'll never know the truth, because you don't investigate! Speaking in general here, the truth is much more interesting than the fabrications for press coverage! Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 15:22:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: SR-71 top speed. Was: Re: That Aurora Budget Line/ B-2 Competition Funding ? Hey Larry, sorry for the way late response, I had been very busy, I was sent to work in Area 5.... uppss... never mind ;) On Fri, 16 Jul 1999, Larry Smith wrote: > Well, we certainly try to wiggle out of these things don't we! :) Nah nah nah :P > But, here's the strongest argument: > > If you're arguing for a higher Mach No. cruise, with the spike pulled inside the > cowl more, the geometry just doesn't work. Here's why. > > Say that the Crickmore picture shows the maximum retracted spike position. At > higher Mach Nos, the cone shock will move closer to the cone, which means, at > the position in Crickmore, the shock will be INSIDE the cowl lip. If you retract > the spike even more, the shock will be even further inside the cowl! > > So, to match shock on lip, at a higher Mach number, the same spike, will be more > FORWARD of where it is in the photo, since it is shock on lip at Mach 3.2 (approx) > in the photo! Hmmm... I thought about that. Sorry if I made any stupid comment, but I had propulsion long time ago and most of my notes incluiding a lot of Skunk Works books I left it in my bati-cave close to Gothic City (New York). 1) What is wrong in having the spikes cones fully FORWARD (extended) at max. speed? 2) What is wrong in having the shock inside of the inlet? Multiple shocks? Some supersonic airplanes inlet was designed like that. It will slow way down the incoming flow. 3) What happened if it is a STRONG shock and not a WEAK shock as you calculated before? There are ways to create strong shocks. All the comments or questions about means that the Blackbird can go way faster from the calculations that you just made in terms of aerodynamics. > So, I'll let you do it. I already checked it, and it comes out pretty close. > Use: > T0 of 700 degrees K (CIT max, per SR Dash-1 and Bill Brown (above)) > T of 219 degrees K (ambient temp at roughly 85,000 ft) > Lambda of 1.4 (Ratio of specific heats) Yes, it came out around Mach 3.31, but... There are not cooling systems? So, if I am understand, CIT is before the incoming air slows down? Hehe, it is becoming more like a technical paper review now :) May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@cco.caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him" Arthur C. Clarke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 10:31:37 -0500 From: "Robert S. Hopkins, III, PhD" Subject: Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site Astute readers of this list may recall that similar tripe about TWA flight 800 also circulated about KAL flight 007. Dismissing the outright disinformation sponsored by the USSR to legitimize their egregious error in shooting down the 747, there are a number of books that are an insult to the memory of those lost and bring false hope to their families. I reviewed several of these books in an article published in _Intelligence and National Security_. Skunk Works readers may find that the worst of these books, Michel Brun's _Incident at Sakhalin_, argues that the 747 was shot down by a JASDF F-4EJ at the end of a major aerial battle involving dozens of aircraft from the United States, the USSR, and Japan. Among the losses were an RC-135, an EF-111A, and even an SR-71. The whole purpose of this battle was to provoke World War III (I can't remember exactly, as it was so ludicrous). At any rate, shortly after the article was published there appeared a rebuttal in a subsequent issue claiming to disprove my criticisms (there REALLY WAS a secret B-52 base near Pensacola, FL, which launched its B-52s [with nukes] which were recalled at literally the last minute). The author of this rebuttal was a retired State Department/Foreign Service official. So much for professional competence. DrBob ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #93 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner