From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #97 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Tuesday, August 17 1999 Volume 08 : Number 097 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Birdwatcher Hangars Re: Sticky Shoes Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site Re: Swept-back wings(?) TWA 800 Re: Hangars Re: Sticky Shoes off-topic, but funny Re: Sticky Shoes Re: Swept-back wings(?) RT Jones X-Plane In a Lake? Re: X-Plane In a Lake? FW: X-Plane In a Lake? FWD: (SK) Re: Mercury Plasma FWD: (UASR/SW) Re(34.5): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES Re: Birdwatcher Re: Special ops airplane Re: Special ops airplane *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 06:15:21 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Birdwatcher On 8/14/99 4:53PM, in message <37B60190.F123E1C0@primenet.com>, "Terry W. Colvin" wrote: > Stealth is compromised when radio signals give telemetry data. Isn't > Tactical Digital Link (TADIL) required on all military aircraft? > > Terry > There is more than one datalink system and no, they aren't required (or even apporpriate) on all military aircraft. Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 23:29:03 -0700 From: INFORMATION RESTRICTED Subject: Hangars I have heard, that hangars where aircraft are stored at a certain popular location in Nevada are designed as such that if you were looking in the front, that the aircraft would be up a ramp and on a flat area near the rear of the hangar preventing view from satellites or aircraft on long angles. Any validity to something like this? It makes sense to me. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 02:35:09 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Sticky Shoes Considering that the titanium probably came from the USSR to begin with, I'm not sure that this was the right question to ask. I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the USSR/fUSSR/Russian metallurgists know a lot about titanium. After all, they'd have to to refine it and produce ingots or blanks of high purity, wouldn't they? Kelly relates in his book how they set up a dummy corporation to buy all the SR-71 titanium from the USSR. He thought it was a tremendous joke. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 betnal@ns.net wrote: > On 8/9/99 10:10AM, in message > <002601bee28a$130e6fb0$9686cd80@anmorris.adm.buffalo.edu>, "Andrew Morris" > wrote: > > > The aircraft plant in question where the Soviet visitors had > > sticky soles to pick up metal shavings was the Grumman F-14 plant > > in Calverton, NY > > We did the same thing to determine that the Soviets had in fact learned how > to rewokr titanium and were building submarines out of it. Ironic note about teh > Soviet espionage was that the information on the titanium in the carry through and > elsewhere wasn't classified! They could have asked! > > > > > > Andy Morris > > > > I stand corrected, Jor-El was superman's father, was Lor-El his > > mother?? > > > > His mother's name was Lara. I'm shocked-- Shocked, I say, at the lack of key > knowledge being taught at our schools! > > > Art > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 06:41:09 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Comprehensive TWA 800 site On 8/12/99 9:30AM, in message <4.0.1.19990811232211.011a4470@west.net>, "A.J. Craddock" wrote: > I have no personal knowledge of what brought down either TWA 800 or PanAm 121, > but I do find it disrespectful to the hundreds of innocent Americans and > others > who perished in these disasters to treat the matter with deliberately > ill-informed levity. > > Perhaps I am all wet and should just regard the loss of a few hundred civilian > air passengers as just another distraction from being vigilant against "the > enemy", and something that should reflexively be swept under the rug and > treated with derision. > > > > Interesting, too that you should feel that this event is joined at the hip > with > the PanAm 121 incident, which it may well be genealogically. > > I'm just now catching up on my mail and Patrick is correct that I'm the one who mentioned Pan Am 103. C'mon, lighten up, please. I also mentioned Richard Nixon, Harry Houdini, Space Aliens and the entire population of Rhode Island in that post. I wasn't trying to make light of the tragic loss of hundreds of innocent lives. I was trying to make light of Oliver Stone making his "documentary" and revealing the Truth. Mr. Stone is a brilliant film maker, but considering his past work and the way he blithely goes from unwarranted assumptions to foregone conclusions it's unlikely that any documentary he made could be viewed with much credibility. If he can't find facts to buttress his contentions, he invents them, and he does like his conspiracies. That's where the Pan Am reference applies. When you get way out into thin air, you can tie darn near anything together. It would be an Oliver Stonish conclusion that since both TWA and Pan Am were going to cross the same ocean, the cases must related (KAL 007 was clearly to throw us off our guard). As for why Pan Am was blown up, how about this rather mundane explanation: Not that long before, we (the US) had blown an Iranian airliner out of the sky in which hundreds of civilians died. It was an accident, but they were dead none the less. Even thought we don't have one, Pan Am was thought of around the world as America's pseudo national airline. Ever heard of "an eye for an eye"? Note that Middle Eastern organizations have not tried to blow up a US airliner since that one particular incident. > Especially as Lester Coleman recently had his "perjury" conviction quashed > in a > bizarre sealed ruling that neither Coleman nor his lawyers can read - Coleman > is now suing the US Government for $10 Million. > > "Overturned" is not the same as "quashed". Art ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 02:57:06 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Swept-back wings(?) R.T. Jones was doing research on swept wings at Langley in the '30s. It said so in his obituary in The L.A. Times this weekend. He published at the time, so this isn't a me-too claim. Lewis was working on jet engines before and during the war, as well, which is part of the reason that the UK shipped Whittle over here. The Lewis (now Glenn) engine wasn't like Whittle's, but they had all the infrastructure for building and testing in place. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." On Sat, 14 Aug 1999, Don Hackett wrote: > Is this true? What about the rumor that the idea of swept-back wings > only dawned upon Americans after the capture of Nazi war data? Every > account of the development of the F86, the B47, and whatever else > fails to mention this guy. Any historians on the list? > > Skunk Works Relevance: > You figure it out. > > By the way, the reference is from Randy Cassingham's "This is True" > list. He will probably hate me for quoting this, even though I refer > to his list (This is True ) as the source. > > To wit: > > THIS WEEK'S HONORARY UNSUBSCRIBE goes to Robert Thomas Jones. After > enrolling in University of Missouri in 1927, but dropped out a year > later to pursue his dream of flying. He joined Charles Fower's flying > circus where he traded chores for flying lessons. In 1934, he took a > more practical approach: he joined the National Advisory Committee for > Aeronautics -- the forerunner of NASA -- in Langley, Va., and in 1946 > transferred to NASA's Ames Research Center in Mountain View, Calif. His > primary contribution to flight was his 1944 invention of swept-back > wings, which are used now on most jet planes, from fighters to > passenger transports. When he retired in 1981, Jones received the > Congressional Excalibur Award for his contributions to aeronautical > science. He also received the Langley Award from the Smithsonian > Institution, joining the likes of the Wright brothers and Charles > Lindberg. Jones died August 11 in California. He was 89. > > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:05:00 -0400 From: "James P. Stevenson" Subject: TWA 800 If you have access to Air Safety Week's web page or back copies, I think you will find that the writings of David Evans cover the TWA 800 as well as anyone. Jim Stevenson ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:11:08 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Hangars At 11:29 PM 8/15/99 -0700, you wrote: >I have heard, that hangars where aircraft are stored at a certain >popular location in Nevada are designed as such that if you were looking >in the front, that the aircraft would be up a ramp and on a flat area >near the rear of the hangar preventing view from satellites or aircraft >on long angles. Any validity to something like this? It makes sense to >me. > >Kurt > > >What makes sense to me is something called a hangar door. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 06:19:01 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Sticky Shoes At 02:35 AM 8/16/99 -0400, you wrote: >Considering that the titanium probably came from the USSR to begin with, >I'm not sure that this was the right question to ask. I wouldn't be >surprised to find out that the USSR/fUSSR/Russian metallurgists know a lot >about titanium. After all, they'd have to to refine it and produce ingots >or blanks of high purity, wouldn't they? > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- We continually make the mistake of underestimating the true strength of our enemies sophistication reporting simplistic stories like the "sticky shoes". I worked for a man who was given research money by NASA to develop ferrocene. The Russians had it and we didn't. It is used as a sub zero degree lubricant. He formulated the code.....first time in the free world it had been done. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 99 09:40:00 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: off-topic, but funny This seemed somehow appropriate for the list.... > When NASA was preparing for the Apollo project, they did some astronaut > training on a Navajo Indian reservation. > One day, a Navajo elder and his son were herding sheep and came across the > space crew. The old man, who spoke only Navajo, asked a question which his > son translated. "What are these guys in the big suits doing?" > A member of the crew said they were practicing for their trip to the moon. > The old man got all excited and asked if he could send a message to the > moon with the astronauts. > Recognizing a promotional opportunity for the spin-doctors, the NASA folks > found a tape recorder. After the old man recorded his message, they asked > the son to translate it. He refused. > So the NASA reps brought the tape to the reservation where the rest of the > tribe listened and laughed but refused to translate the elder's message to > the moon. > Finally, the NASA crew called in an official government translator. He > reported that the moon message said, "Watch out for these guys; they have > come to steal your land." Greg W. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 09:23:38 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: Sticky Shoes Mary Shafer commented, >Considering that the titanium probably came from the USSR to begin with, >I'm not sure that this was the right question to ask. I wouldn't be >surprised to find out that the USSR/fUSSR/Russian metallurgists know a lot >about titanium. After all, they'd have to to refine it and produce ingots >or blanks of high purity, wouldn't they? Indeed, and, as someone has already noted, they used it to make non-trivial structures such as the pressure hulls of submaines, for example the Alfa/Project 705 SSN. Speaking of which, and of collecting things, there once was an intelligence analyst in Washington who had a fair-sized piece of Alfa pressure hull for a paperweight. The exceedingly straightforward method by which it was obtained (I'll refrain from giving details, as the method may still work) is an example of how even the most paranoid of secrecy regimes can let things slip out. (I also regard it as a cautionary tale illustrating that secrecy is fragile and depending on long-term secrecy isn't a good idea. But YMMV.) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:26:57 From: win@writer.win-uk.net (David) Subject: Re: Swept-back wings(?) Mary Shafer writes: >R.T. Jones was doing research on swept wings at Langley in the '30s. It >said so in his obituary in The L.A. Times this weekend. He published at >the time, so this isn't a me-too claim. It would be interesting to know when in the '30s RTJ was doing this research. As I mentioned before, Adolf Busemann was lecturing on the swept wing jet in '35, so it would be particularly significant if it was well before this date. I don't think anyone was suggesting that this was a 'me too' claim. The date quoted for the 'invention' of the swept wing by RTJ was 1944 and the original poster asked is that was true. Based on that date, I replied that Busemann's work predated it by almost a decade, and Andreas cited the '35 Volta conference, where the paper was presented. David ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 08:52:01 -0700 From: David Lednicer Subject: RT Jones Yes, Andreas, I have been slow off the mark! Trouble is, I only get the digest and I don't check e-mail on weekends... The use of the swept wing to allow transonic speeds to be achieved economically was first proposed by Bussemann at the 1935 conference in Volta Italy. I used to have a copy of the paper he presented - I lost it and now can't find it. Outside of Germany, Bussemann's work was largely ignored. Within Germany, his theories were tested and found to be true. Most of the jets on the drawing boards at the end of the war in Germany had swept wings. The Me 262 had wings with moderate sweep for CG control. However, there was an experimental Me 262 with highly swept wings. It never flew and one story says that it was destroyed when another aircraft crashed on top of it. What RT is credited with is independently coming up with the idea in 1944. The sad part of the story is that no one believed RT, so he had to bury the idea in a report on other ideas. Only after the war, when the George Schairer, et al, ransacked the German archives did the idea finally take hold in the US. Schairer has given me a copy of his famous letter home to Boeing about swept wings. This resulted in the B-47 progressing from a straight wing bomber to a swept wing bomber, almost overnight. RT also produced a lot of other original ideas related to 3D aerodynamics, including the oblique wing. Story is that his daughter started violin lessons, so RT got interested in musical instruments and designed a violin based upon some ideas of his. I met RT at the Laminar True Believer's dinner at Oshkosh, back in 1986 or so. Even in retirement, he was still an active thinker and a I really enjoyed talking to him. - ------------------------------------------------------------------- David Lednicer | "Applied Computational Fluid Dynamics" Analytical Methods, Inc. | email: dave@amiwest.com 2133 152nd Ave NE | tel: (425) 643-9090 Redmond, WA 98052 USA | fax: (425) 746-1299 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 14:00:57 -0400 From: "Andrew Morris" Subject: X-Plane In a Lake? Yesterday I met a retired Bell Aerospace worker (the Western New York variety not one of those Tejas types), who told me that one of the Bell X-1 aircraft was dropped by accident into Lake Ontario. I had never heard this before and had to wonder (provided it did not disintegrate on impact) wouldn't that be something worth even more than ole Liberty Bell 7 (there were 6+ capsules still preserved)? The fresh water of the lake would preserve the a/c better than saltwater. My question is, has anyone ever heard of an X-1 or X-1A (he couldn't remember which) aircraft that was lost (and presumably) not recovered from Lake Ontario? You may reply to me on or off list. Andy Morris morris@admissions.buffalo.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:55:55 -0500 From: "Tom C Robison" Subject: Re: X-Plane In a Lake? Andy wrote: My question is, has anyone ever heard of an X-1 or X-1A (he couldn't remember which) aircraft that was lost (and presumably) not recovered from Lake Ontario? You may reply to me on or off list. PLEASE, reply On-list. Enquiring minds want to know! Tom ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:15:47 -0400 From: "Andrew Morris" Subject: FW: X-Plane In a Lake? forwarded: Subject: RE: X-Plane In a Lake? I spoke with Jack Beilman, formerly of Calspan, regarding this. He shared his recollections and then went to the book The X-Planes. It was the X-2 (tail number 46-675) which was lost on May 12, 1953. The EB-50 mother ship was being flown by Dave Howe and Joe Cannon. (Joe Cannon, a former Bell test pilot, is still alive.) There was a chase aircraft. The purpose of the flight was to qualify the liquid oxygen top off and pressurization system. The accident occurred 35 miles NE of Rochester over the center of Lake Ontario at 18:05 EDT. The aircraft was at 30,000 feet at 200 MPH. The LOX had been topped off for a second time and the tank was pressurized to normal values. A red ball of flame was observed by the chase plane. The blast pushed the B-50 up 100 feet and rolled the chase plane violently. The X-2 disintegrated in the explosion; the largest piece observed falling by the chase plane was believed to be an outer wing panel. The X-2 pilot was thrown out by the blast and the chase plane saw an observer bail out of the B-50. Despite an extensive search, neither the test pilot, Skip Ziegler, nor the observer, Frank Woolco, were ever found. Allen Kidder > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Morris [SMTP:morris@ADMISSIONS.BUFFALO.EDU] > Sent: Monday, August 16, 1999 2:01 PM > To: AIRCRAFT-LIST@LISTSERV.ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU > Subject: X-Plane In a Lake? > > Yesterday I met a retired Bell Aerospace worker (the Western New > York variety not one of those Tejas types), who told me that one > of the Bell X-1 aircraft was dropped by accident into Lake > Ontario. > > I had never heard this before and had to wonder (provided it did > not disintegrate on impact) wouldn't that be something worth even > more than ole Liberty Bell 7 (there were 6+ capsules still > preserved)? > > The fresh water of the lake would preserve the a/c better than > saltwater. > > My question is, has anyone ever heard of an X-1 or X-1A (he > couldn't remember which) aircraft that was lost (and presumably) > not recovered from Lake Ontario? > > You may reply to me on or off list. > > Andy Morris > morris@admissions.buffalo.edu > > To sign off of this list send email to listserv@listserv.buffalo.edu > and in the body of the email put only the line: > > unsub AIRCRAFT-list ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:07:16 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: (SK) Re: Mercury Plasma >"Sandia and Livermore laboratories developed the reverse engineered MFD >technology. The government will go to any lengths to protect this >technology. I can see why. >The plasma, mercury based, is pressurized at 250,000 atmospheres at a >temperature of 150 degrees Kelvin, Oh, sure it is. Am I missing something, here? Isn't a plasma supposed to be, like, really HOT? And isn't 150K ("degrees Kelvin" is incorrect, it's just Kelvin; I know, 'cos I used to get it wrong too :-), like, really COLD? When the mean particle energy of a plasma is is 1eV, the temperature of the plasma is roughly 11,700K, right? Heck of a job them Men In Black are doing, managing to squish the stuff down to 250,000 atmospheres and still keep it only 70 or so Kelvin warmer than liquid nitrogen, huh! Of course, I don't know squat about mysterious gravity-neutralising hardware. But I'm inclined to think that whoever wrote this doesn't, either. - -- Daniel Rutter DNRC Gadget Wrangler - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 16:11:13 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: (UASR/SW) Re(34.5): ROSWELL SPACECRAFT HELPED DEVELOP OUR SPY PLANES In a message dated 8/13/99 9:43:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, fortean@PRIMENET.COM writes: > The latest flurry of my cross-posts has caused some chaos and confusion > between the Skunk-Works and UASR lists. Larry Smith commented on his > relationship with John Andrews. Ron Craft questioned me (Terry) thinking > I wrote the paragraph. Now, as the uninvited catalyst I am getting > singed on both sides of my body, the skeptical observer side, and the > hesitant believer side. Hey, Terry, if you're walking point all the time, sooner or later you're gonna get ambushed and caught in the cross (post) fire. . Sometimes it's not clear where you leave off and the guys from the other list kick in. For the record, my name's not Ron Craft , roncraft is just the screen name I use on aol since recieving some hate snail mail after posting on one of the paranormal newsgroups a few years ago. Some of those steeped in righeousness can be downright vicious, so I use the screen name in lieu of the real thing. > Let me say that as a middle grounder (OK, fence straddler!) I find both > the black aircraft (known and rumoured) and alleged UFOs arenas of > interest. Also, reports between the two may have been confused. The > CIA report on black aircraft in the 1950s and 1960s that were identified > as UFOs That's a point of major contention with me. UFO sightings long predated Roswell, and we pretty much knew of all black box aircraft such as the U2, and later, in the 60s, the SR-71, in the radar business back then. Our ufos were simply not aircraft known to exist on this planet. That's pretty basic, and it's always annoying to read the insistent comments of people who were not yet born back then who are so certain that those ufos of the 50s and earlier were advanced terrestial aircraft. Some of the scenarios those guys invent are downright amazing in their ignorance. We've gone round and round on those CIA et al reports for at least 20 years now, and still haven't a clue whether they're nothing more than coverup or bureaucratic shuffling aside of issues they don't know how to handle. IMHO, we'll not know the facts until we have all the information blacked out on those hundreds of government FOI released reports filed in Black Vault. Or, hopefully, more people like Col. Corso who were involved in one way or another with ufos from Roswell onward will 'fess up on deathbed confessions or whatever. ron - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:59:48 EDT From: Xelex@aol.com Subject: Re: Birdwatcher The A-12 Birdwatcher system had 40 channels: 1 - L. and R. Gen. Fail 2 - L. and R. XFMR/Rect. Fail 3 - Altitude Low 4 - Fuel Quantity Low 5 - Destruct Active 6 - L. Fuel Flow Low 7 - R. Fuel Flow Low 8 - L. Hydraulic Pressure Low 9 - R. Hydraulic Pressure Low 10 - System "B" Active 11 - "A" Hydraulic Pressure Low 12 - "B" Hydraulic Pressure Low 13 - Oxygen Pressure Low 14 - System "A" Active 15 - L. CIT High 16 - R. CIT High 17 - Spare 18 - System "B" Man. Jam On 19 - Spare 20 - Pitch Acceleration 21 - Yaw Acceleration 22 - Cockpit Pressure Low 23 - Seat Ejected 24 - Code "A" 25 - Code "B" 26 - Angle of Attack High 27 - L. Fire Warning 28 - R. Fire Warning 29 - System "C" Activity 30 - System "C" or "F" Activity 31 - L. Oil Pressure Low 32 - R. Oil Pressure Low 33 - Spare 34 - R. EGT High Derich On 35 - Spare 36 - L. EGT High Derich On 37 - Spare 38 - Spare 39 - Spare 40 - Spare On 4 June 1968, the Birdwatcher system in aircraft 129 transmitted: 34 - excessive R. engine EGT 7 - low fuel flow in R. engine 3 - altitude dropped below 68,500 feet The rate of descent following the 34 transmission was between 6,498 ft./min. and 48,750 ft./min. Peter W, Merlin THE X-HUNTERS Aerospace Archeology Team ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:33:30 -0500 From: G&G Subject: Re: Special ops airplane Mary Shafer wrote: > > I was just cleaning out my mail queue and came upon this message again and > realized I had something to add, something I should have mentioned > earlier. There was a Special Ops airplane being developed in about the > right time interval, although it wasn't known as Aurora and wasn't > particularly secret. I don't remember the name (Credible Sport?) but could this have been the C-130 modded for the Iran hostage rescue attempt? I'm thinking of the mods that added rockets to allow landing/takeoff in a stadium or some such. Where was this mod tested? (Marietta or Edwards?) You didn't mention an approx. date, this C-130 would have been around 1980.... Greg %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% %% Reality is for People Who %% %% Can't Handle Simulation %% %% %% %% habu@airmail.net %% %% habu@cyberramp.net %% %% srcrown@flash.net %% %% gdfieser@hti.com %% %% %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 09:40:51 -0500 From: "Tom C Robison" Subject: Re: Special ops airplane - --0__=ytOHcpmJq97gkhQQjcfUbAegzwnuVbkO4GutVoFrvb23c3fCW8xAqG5W Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline The - --0__=ytOHcpmJq97gkhQQjcfUbAegzwnuVbkO4GutVoFrvb23c3fCW8xAqG5W Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable ?Credible Sport? I program was a response to a quick reaction f= orce requirement for heavyweight aircraft, modified for short field, ta= keoff and landing capability. The original CS I aircraft was a single point d= esign and only explored a limited portion of the flying envelope. The CS I airc= raft were designed for a specific, limited mission. The Phase I program did not p= osses the normal margins of safety required for peace time operations. The fo= llowing 3 C-130H airframes were pulled out of active Air Force service inventory= and were considered expendable. These airframes were modified from April to Au= gust 1980 as follows: Credible Sport Phase I: modified to YMC-130H configuration, Lockh= eed Model 382-41C, #4658, A.F. Serial Number 74-1683, Airframe #1, Assigned t= o the 463 Tactical Air Wing Oct 1977 to Sept 1980. Modified to a YMC-130H conf= iguration for a rescue operation in Iran. With a C-141 in-flight refueling po= d, DC-130 type radome. 30 Rockets total (ASROC engines provided by the Navy)= pointing Forward and downward on the forward and rear fuselage. This was = the first airframe modified. It was tested at Duke field Eglin AFB. It flew appr= oximately 4 test flights there. This airplane crashed at a demonstration on Oct = 29, 1980. The airframe was buried at Duke field Eglin AFB after the crash. Credible Sport Phase II: modified to YMC-130H configuration, Lockh= eed Model 382-41C, #4669, A.F. Serial Number 74-1686, Airframe #2, Assigned to th= e 463 TAW September 1976 to 1980. Modified to YMC-130H, 4950 Tactical Air Wing= November 1982 to October 1987. Modified for a rescue operation in Iran. Modifie= d same as 74-1683. This airframe was used for experimental testing purposes = at Warner Robins AFB. These test provided the foundation and prototype testin= g for the Combat Talon II aircraft. This airframe was de-modified and given to t= he Warner Robins museum in March 1988. Credible Sport Phase III: modified to YMC-130H configuration, Lockheed = Model 382-41C, #4667, A.F. Serial Number 74-2065; Airframe #3 was assigned to= the 463 TAW Oct 1977 to Sept 1980. This airframe was never completely modified = to YMC-130H configuration and was used as a test platform for form fit and= function of parts. The Rockets were never fitted. This airframe was de-modified = in November 1984 at Lockheed Ontario. Painted in lizard camouflage scheme = February 1988. Oct. 1991 assigned to the 773AS to present day. = - --0__=ytOHcpmJq97gkhQQjcfUbAegzwnuVbkO4GutVoFrvb23c3fCW8xAqG5W-- ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #97 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. 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