From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #101 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Monday, August 30 1999 Volume 08 : Number 101 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Faith versus evidence Gathering of Blackbirds Hill AFB UTAH Jammers and F-117 [Fwd: Sad Days] RE: [Fwd: Sad Days] FWD: RE: (SW/TLC) B-52 losses over North Vietnam [was Stealth debate] FWD: (TLC-Mission) A-12, the summer of "67" BBC Article about spy betraying F-117 Re: FWD: (TLC-Mission) A-12, the summer of "67" RE: [Fwd: Sad Days] Iran rescue Hercules Re: Iran rescue Hercules *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 06:45:51 -0700 From: patrick Subject: Re: Faith versus evidence At 05:20 AM 08/24/1999 -0400, Jim wrote: > >I have this information from some other source in the Air Force that the >F-117s definitely had jammer support. Since their comment is an >admission against interest, I tend to accept it. >> I will share this, not that it answers anything.....I had lunch recently with an ex-F-117 pilot who now flys for Delta. He recently met another Delta pilot who is currently a member of the reserve F-16 squadron that flew the jamming missions over Yugoslavia the night 806 was downed. The F-16 pilot told my friend that that all of their F-16 jammers were ordered back to base unexpectedly just before 806 was lost. Knowing the importance of their mission, they protested the RTB order but were told to comply immediately. No reason was ever given to them. patrick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 09:35:35 -0600 From: Brent Clark Subject: Gathering of Blackbirds Hill AFB UTAH On September 25th, Hill Aerospace Museum will be having a "Gathering of Blackbirds" which will include several former Pilots, Engineers and Crew Members of the SR-71. They will be discussing the aircraft and its missions. Speakers include: Col. James Sullivan record holder New York - London Col Jack Layton one of the first to fly both the A12- and SR-71 Col Rich Graham Squadron Commander and Author Lt. Col Gil Bertelson Operational Pilot Mr. Warren Gillmore Engineer with the Lockheed Skunk Works Books and posters will be available to be autographed. 9:00 am until 3:00pm at the museum. Free to public. Museum is located off Interstate I-15 in Roy, Utah -just south of Ogden ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 15:44:57 -0400 From: "James P. Stevenson" Subject: Jammers and F-117 At 05:20 AM 08/24/1999 -0400, Jim wrote: > >> > >>I have this information from some other source in the Air Force that the > >>F-117s definitely had jammer support. Since their comment is an > >>admission against interest, I tend to accept it. > >>> In response, Patrick wrote: > > >> I will share this, not that it answers anything.....I had lunch recently with >> an ex-F-117 pilot who now flys for Delta. He recently met another Delta >> pilot who is currently a member of the reserve F-16 squadron that flew the >> jamming missions over Yugoslavia the night 806 was downed. The F-16 pilot >> told my friend that that all of their F-16 jammers were ordered back to base >> unexpectedly just before 806 was lost. Knowing the importance of their >> mission, they protested the RTB order but were told to comply immediately. >> No reason was ever given to them. I shared this e-mail with someone who has researched the issue heavily. Here is what he wrote me: > The writer of this e-mail message seems to be suggesting that there were > no jammers present when the F-117 was shot down. Perhaps it is true that > the F-16's were ordered back, though this is the first time I have heard > there were F-16 jamming aircraft on this mission. However, the F-117 was > not alone in the wilderness. There were two EA-6B Prowlers flying with > it. In fact, the air force has been saying privately that the F-117 was > shot down because the Navy Prowlers screwed up. After the aricraft was > shot down, the air forced demanded (and got) that three Prowlers fly on > every F-117 and B-2 mission. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 17:22:08 -0500 From: "Gregory Fieser" Subject: [Fwd: Sad Days] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - --------------9CB93105ACA0C751E866D784 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit forwarded from rec.models.scale, Greg - -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% %% Reality is for People Who %% %% Can't Handle Simulation %% %% %% %% gdfieser@hti.com %% %% habu@airmail.net %% %% srcrown@flash.net %% %% habu@cyberramp.net %% %% %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% - --------------9CB93105ACA0C751E866D784 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Path: client!psinr!peerfeed.news.psi.net!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!cs.umd.edu!ra.nrl.navy.mil!rcp6.elan.af.mil!nadia.dfrc.nasa.gov!not-for-mail From: Nick Kiriokos Newsgroups: rec.models.scale Subject: Sad Days Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 15:39:42 -0700 Organization: NASA Dryden Message-ID: <37C31F2E.92BAD651@dfrc.nasa.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: pcnick.dfrc.nasa.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: client rec.models.scale:366633 Thursday, 26 August 1999 will quite possibly be the last flight for the SR-71. For the next two years or so, our three A's and one B will be in flyable storage and if there are no programs, they go to the museum or bone yard. So after I launch her out, AF 617980 might be the last flying Blackbird. I hope not, but dollars don't come easy these days. Nick - --------------9CB93105ACA0C751E866D784-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 99 10:46:00 -0500 From: gregweigold@pmsc.com Subject: RE: [Fwd: Sad Days] Mary might have a comment on this..... please say it ain't so, Mary!! Greg W. - -----Original Message----- From: at INTERNET Sent: August 25, 1999 5:22 PM To: "skunk-works@netwrx1.com" at INTERNET Subject: [Fwd: Sad Days] forwarded from rec.models.scale, Greg - -- %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %% %% %% Reality is for People Who %% %% Can't Handle Simulation %% %% %% %% gdfieser@hti.com %% %% habu@airmail.net %% %% srcrown@flash.net %% %% habu@cyberramp.net %% %% %% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:45:09 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: RE: (SW/TLC) B-52 losses over North Vietnam [was Stealth debate] Terry, This is a VERY late response to your comments below, but I was doing some "catch-up reading in my TLC files and ran across the following comment. > The main cause of the losses was, IMHO, the inflexible > tactics imposed by > PACAF, which controlled all Air Force ops. USAF until the late '80s was > dominated by SAC and SAC's types of thinking in many ways set > tactics. I have to defend PACAF on these points. To keep the record straight, I have no dog in the fight - I was still in SEA for almost two months after Linebacker ended and during that time I belonged to Headquarters Command - not to PACAF or to SAC. However, I know how the Buffs worked because I did a LOT of Arclight targeting during my last (4th) year in SEA. From SEA (Vientiane) I went to PACAF Air Defense Analysis Center (ADAC). There I was shown a file copy of the message drafted at PACAF, and signed for release by the Commander (Gen Lucius D. Clay, Jr.) warning SAC, on the basis of the first night's operation, that the Vietnamese understood their tactics completely, and would take advantage of the sequential bombers "in trail" formation in the future. SAC dictated the tactics, which are well described in the earlier email. PACAF did not own the B-52s, and specifically did NOT dictate tactics to them. I was also shown the very brusk SAC reply to the PACAF warning which said, in essense, "nobody knows more than we do about flying heavy bombers, so mind your own business." Two days later, after they had lost at least 6 Buffs as I recall, they changed to multiple run-in and egress headings. I too have heard that the aircrews had to force the issue of tactics to get them changed, but don't know the full truth on this point. The problem you (or Art) described - inflexibility - was right on, but the guilty party was in Omaha, not Honolulu. For what its worth, Best Regards, Gerry Frazier NKP TFA intel 1969-70 Udorn HQ 7/13AF Intel 1970-72 Project 404 Intel 1972-73 TLC Brotherhood #261 - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 22:57:50 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD: (TLC-Mission) A-12, the summer of "67" A lot of the A-12 (Oxcart) project revolved around the testing of SR-71/YF-12A/D-21 drone projects. The majority of tests were done at Area 51, Nevada, as the A-12 were kept there. They belonged to the CIA, not the Air Force. The YF-12A interceptor version was made somewhat visible to the public, so if an aircraft was spotted somewhere you would automatically assume it was a YF-12A. One must understand the flying of spyplanes, by the Air Force, was revoked after the Powers incident in 1960. The Air Force did not resume operational missions until the SR-71 deployment. The government states the first operational mission of a SR-71 was flown from Kadena AB, Okinawa on May 31, 1967. Filming the Chinese detonating their first atomic bomb was also done at around this time, by a SR-71 our government states. Actually the aircraft used for these missions were the A-12. The government doesn't officially admit this, even today. During May 1967 A-12's 60-6930, 60-6932, and 60-6937 were deployed to Det. 1 Kadena AB. They were pawned off to the layman as SR-71. These aircraft had no visible markings except a small red tail number painted on them. Missing was the rear cockpit that ALL SR-71 have. I deployed with the 2nd group of TDY personnel from Beale AFB, to Kadena AB in July of 1967. Our initial deployment to support the CIA were 10 KC-135Q tankers. The tankers were sent to Kadena in April 1967, prior to the A-12 movement. The KC-135Q received special modifications in the early 60's to refuel the A-12, and later the SR-71 and U-2. There were originally 21 of these aircraft at Beale. In the late 60's the Air Force modified more aircraft, drawn from Littlerock and Mc Coy AFB's to bring the total to 46. The TDY to Kadena was an interesting affair. Actually it was a royal pain the butt! As this was a brand new detachment, there basically were no facilities for us. The A-12's were in 3 little hangers right in the middle of SAC's "Young Tiger Task Force" on the north side of the base. The only thing interesting in the area was the Special Forces museum on the road into the place. We had a small room for the classified equipment, such as the ARC-50 UHF radio system and the Rendezvous TACAN, but everything else would have to be worked out of the "Tiger" facilities. Somebody had decided that since we were adding an additional 10 tankers to the ramp we would be attached to the "Tiger" outfit. Their immediate interpretation of this no brainer was we worked for them first, and ourselves second. No one, with any authority from our group did anything to help the situation either. We were stuck! The "Tiger" outfit couldn't work on our aircraft, as they weren't cleared for access. We performed all maintenance on our own aircraft. We were housed in their barracks and worked their schedule, in addition to whatever our mission requirement was. All this led to some rather heated arguments. After an initial crossing of swords right out of the gate with the AEMS Squadron C.O., (a real winner, as I recall) I immediately volunteered for the night shift. At least I wouldn't have to burn that bridge anymore. We had a T-Sgt with us who hid out in the classified equipment room for the 75 days we were there. I still don't know how he got away with that trick. The night radio shop NCOIC and I got along great! As nobody liked to ride the truck for the nightly "Tiger" launch, I was automatically elected. I didn't mind this because it killed a lot of time, sometimes twice a night, except the go_ da___ mosquitoes ate you up. All the JP-4 in the air must have sent them into a feeding frenzy. 50 or 60 tankers all in a line, idling away, going thru their preflight checklist, and then launch one right after another (about 45 seconds apart). The noise was deafening even with earplugs in, and headset on. Thats OK, you couldn't sleep at the barracks on your night off either, for the prevailing breeze blew all of the noise in that general direction anyway! If you have never had the opportunity to hear a J-57 with water injection, you have truly not experienced life! The A-12 missions would generate an 18 hour day for us, separate from the "Tiger" one. These missions did take precedence!!! The A-12 would fly north to south, down all of Vietnam, and then refuel at or over U-Tapao. It would then fly the same route south to north, for comparison photos, and return to Kadena. What made the day so long was having to launch tankers at different intervals, so they would arrive at the correct location on time, throughout the mission. Other missions were flown over North Korea, China and during the capture of the U.S.S. Pueblo. The down time for maintenance on the A-12 (or SR-71) was extensive due to the nature of the aircraft. The Chine bay covers all had to be removed for access to the equipment, and these were not secured with dzuz fasteners. We were required to remove, bench test and align, and then reinstall all equipment. I felt extremely sorry for the instrument shop, as they were required to remove and calibrate every one after each flight. On March 8, 1968 Maj. Buddy Brown (pilot) and Maj. Dave Jenson (RSO) arrived at Kadena in the first SR-71 (Senior Crown) from Beale, aircraft 64-17978. Later that month two more arrived from Beale. As was previously discussed on the Mission list, one A-12 was lost on June 2, 1968. The other two were ferried back to Area 51 later in the month, and then transferred to Palmdale, CA for storage. Kadena was the last operation in which the A-12 performed as a spyplane. All operations thereafter were accomplished by the SR-71, period. The deployment of the SR-71 also ended personnel being attached to the "Tiger" outfit. Buildings had either been erected or procured by that time, and separate quarters mysteriously appeared for the troops. Additional tankers were stationed at Ching Chuan Kang AB in Taiwan, and U-Tapao AB in Thailand. This was to shorten the flight time to the mission area. There are a number of examples of these two aircraft on display across the country. I strongly recommend if you have never seen one of these aircraft close-up, go to see one sometime; as this is the GREATEST jet plane to date. A contact of mine from Beale has informed me, within the past year, that the present administration is attempting to have the backs broken, on all remaining aircraft, so they will never be able to fly again. There are some of both types in cold storage at Palmdale and Edwards AFB available for use again, if the occasion presents itself. I can only guess what the real motive, for such a drastic move must be! I actually did enjoy my summer of "67" at Kadena. Okinawa was a great place to be stationed in those days. Filet Mignon dinner $1.00 at the club. Cigarettes $1.03 a carton at the commissary. The bars and nasons on BC street, or ride the bus up to Moonlight Beach on a day off. Even the "Tiger" fiasco had a upside, for I received several awards due to my being attached to the "Young Tiger Task Force" later on. Now you know if you happened to catch a glimpse of a SR-71 at Kadena in 1967, what you were actually viewing was the infamous A-12 of the Central Intelligence Agency. I know Habu, because I was there!!!!! The B-58 was fat, but the XB-70 went 2,000 mph. I believe the F-4 Phantom was also faster, over 1,800 mph in test. "Hap" Wyman Howard "Hap" Wyman - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:01:37 +0100 (BST) From: Louise Auger Subject: BBC Article about spy betraying F-117 Just saw this on the BBC Online site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/europe/newsid_431000/431408.stm regards Louise http://stealth.mudservices.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 12:23:04 -0400 From: Joe Donoghue Subject: Re: FWD: (TLC-Mission) A-12, the summer of "67" At 10:57 PM 08/26/1999 -0700, Terry Colvin forwarded the following from Howard Wyman. It appears to be a mixture of historical fact, rumor and inaccurate memories. >A lot of the A-12 (Oxcart) project revolved around the testing of >SR-71/YF-12A/D-21 drone projects. The majority of tests were done at Area >51, Nevada, as the A-12 were kept there. They belonged to the CIA, not the >Air Force. The YF-12A interceptor version was made somewhat visible to the >public, so if an aircraft was spotted somewhere you would automatically >assume it was a YF-12A. One must understand the flying of spyplanes, by the >Air Force, was revoked after the Powers incident in 1960. The Air Force did >not resume operational missions until the SR-71 deployment. I don't know what he means by "the flying of spyplanes" here. All US assets stopped overflying the Soviet Union after Powers was shot down, however, penetration of Soviet territory by USAF was pretty much shut down after SAC flew 3 RB-57Ds over Vladivostok in December 1956. The Air Force continued to operate its own U-2s on "operational" missions, including peripheral photography of Siberia during 1959 and 1960, many missions over Cuba beginning in October 1962 and a long deployment to Vietnam which began in early 1964. > >The government states the first operational mission of a SR-71 was flown from >Kadena AB, Okinawa on May 31, 1967. I'd like to see a cite for this. >Filming the Chinese detonating their first atomic bomb was also done at around >this time, by a SR-71 our government states. I'd like to see a cite on this statement, also. I do not believe we ever filmed the "detonation" of a Chinese nuke AND the first Chinese nuke was detonated on October 16, 1964, several years before the A-12 was deployed and two months before the first flight of the SR-71. Corona satellites filmed the test site before and after the blast and ROCAF/CIA U-2s which were standing by at Takhli, Thailand were not used against the PRC nuke test site in 1964. At least one U-2 mission was flown to the Lop Nur test site in the summer of 1967 from Takhli while the A-12s were at Kadena. > Actually the aircraft used for these missions were the A-12. The government doesn't officially admit this, even today. The pilots don't remember them either >During May 1967 A-12's 60-6930, 60-6932, and 60-6937 were deployed to Det. 1 >Kadena AB. They were pawned off to the layman as SR-71. These aircraft had >no visible markings except a small red tail number painted on them. Missing >was the rear cockpit that ALL SR-71 have. > >I deployed with the 2nd group of TDY personnel from Beale AFB, to Kadena AB >in July of 1967. Our initial deployment to support the CIA were 10 KC-135Q >tankers. The tankers were sent to Kadena in April 1967, prior to the A-12 >movement. snipped a lot of interesting tanker stuff. >The A-12 missions would generate an 18 hour day for us, separate from the >"Tiger" one. These missions did take precedence!!! The A-12 would fly north >to south, down all of Vietnam, Crickmore and the pilots say they flew East to West over North Vietnam, refueled over Thailand and then flew West-East over a different track over North Vietnam. >and then refuel at or over U-Tapao. It would >then fly the same route south to north, for comparison photos, and return to >Kadena. What made the day so long was having to launch tankers at different >intervals, so they would arrive at the correct location on time, throughout >the mission. Other missions were flown over North Korea, China Again, the A-12 pilots don't seem to remember any China missions. Nor do the flight planners. I guess the men in black got to them. >and during the capture of the U.S.S. Pueblo. >The down time for maintenance on the A-12 (or SR-71) was extensive due to the >nature of the aircraft. The Chine bay covers all had to be removed for >access to the equipment, and these were not secured with dzuz fasteners. We >were required to remove, bench test and align, and then reinstall all >equipment. We? The tanker avionics maintenance guys from Beale were working on the A-12s which deployed from A51? Funny, I'd have thought the OXCART team would have deployed self-sufficient in that regard. I'll have to ask the A-12 Det commander when I see him in October. I felt extremely sorry for the instrument shop, as they were >required to remove and calibrate every one after each flight. Snipped the rest. The A-12 lost from Kadena went down on June 5, 1968, not the 2nd. Joe Donoghue PS: Enjoy your stay in Kuwait, Terry >"Hap" Wyman > >Howard "Hap" Wyman >-- >Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean@primenet.com > >Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/8832 > >Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * > TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program >------------ >Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List > TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > >Southeast Asia (SEA) service: >Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade > (Jan 71 - Aug 72) >Thailand/Laos > - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand > (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) > - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand > (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site > (Aug 73 - Jan 74) > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 23:18:01 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: RE: [Fwd: Sad Days] On Thu, 26 Aug 1999 gregweigold@pmsc.com wrote: > Mary might have a comment on this..... please say it ain't so, Mary!! Mary said it was so weeks ago, when Fast Eddie flew his last flight. The last flight has slipped to 27 Sept and we'll probably keep the planes for more than two years, just not in flyable storage, but it's so. You want the Blackbirds to keep flying, write to your congress-critters to increase the NASA aeronautics budget, particularly for Mach 3+ flight. Not the space budget, the aeronautics budget, and be sure to mention the Blackbirds and Dryden. Get your friends to write. Don't send e-mail; send real typed letters by snailmail. They've cut our budget so deeply that we have had to lay up all but three research programs using piloted aircraft and those three aren't very expensive. We can't even take advantage of a golden opportunity to acquire and operate the only high-performance variable-stability in-flight simulator in the US (the USAF is abandoning it because they don't think there's anything left to learn about aircraft dynamics and handling qualities, which is why they've also disbanded the flight dynamics organization at Wright-Pat, the folks who write the mil specs and sponsor the research). Don't rant and rave, don't threaten, don't mention I told you about this, but be cool and logical and point out that the US needs a government organization that knows how airplanes fly but doesn't have a political agenda in producing an accident report to fix the blame and that can investigate new technologies that may do as much for aviation as the swept wing, the supercritical airfoil, winglets, area ruling, and highly-augmented fly-by-wire flight control systems, to name just five NASA or NACA discoveries that have revolutionized civil and military aviation. Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 19:42:29 +0100 From: "James Hart" Subject: Iran rescue Hercules Tonight on ITV's 'Tested To Destruction', they showed (b&w) footage of the Herc equipped with rockets (which retracted into fairings around the fuselage) both successfully taking off but unsuccessfully landing. The rockets were fired when the plane was still about 50feet up so the subsequent reduction in airspeed caused it to drop like a stone which broke the starboard wing off. I remember reading some correspondence on this digest a while back so I thought I'd let you know. Their URN is http://www.meridiantv.co.uk/tested/welcome.html. They also showed footage of the first F16 (YF16 on tailfin)takeoff (which occurred during a high speed taxi run) and the first F16 crash landing (different pilot, gear stuck up). Last week they showed NBC suit tests inside Porton Down. They have quite a range of different products shown, ranging from electric kettles to aircraft crash testing. James Hart ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 16:03:44 -0400 (EDT) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Iran rescue Hercules On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, James Hart wrote: > Tonight on ITV's 'Tested To Destruction', > They also showed footage of the first F16 (YF16 on tailfin)takeoff (which > occurred during a high speed taxi run) That's usually referred to as Flight Zero and was the first flight of the YF-16 (the actual F-16 is enough different that they're really not the same aircraft). The plane got into a PIO during the high-speed taxi test and the pilot decided to take off to get away from the hard unforgiving runway. The damage included scraped wingtip and elevon and the cause was having the pilot gains too high (they'd halved the ground-based sim gains even though we'd told them to divide by ten; they ended up dividing the aircraft gains by five, doing just what we'd recommended). They also changed from a fixed force stick to a moving force stick because the lack of proprioceptive cuing was part of the problem, coupled with the too-high pilot gains. > and the first F16 crash landing > (different pilot, gear stuck up). Where to begin? That wasn't a crash landing, it was a some-gear-up landing, no "crash" about it at all, and only one gear was hung, not all three. I think it was the starboard main and it hung in the gear compartment, rather than coming part way down but not locking. The pilot took it to the grass between the runway and the taxiway at Fort Worth and held the gearless side up until the airspeed bled off considerably and then let the plane down onto the wingtip and inlet. The inlet was damaged, the engine slightly FODded, and the plane was back flying in a couple of weeks at the most (which is proof positive it wasn't a crash). This incident gave rise to the joke, "Q: What's red, white, and blue and eats grass? A: The YF-16." That particular airplane was painted in a flashy red, white, and blue livery, the one used for the YF-16 desk models. I think Alex Wolfe was the pilot, but may be wrong. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #101 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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