From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V8 #118 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Wednesday, December 22 1999 Volume 08 : Number 118 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Stealth, counterstealth article in New Scientist RE: X-44A Reference Escape from Kuwait [was Re: Reference] New and Nutty from Northrop RE: Reference Re: New and Nutty from Northrop RE: New and Nutty from Northrop RE: New and Nutty from Northrop RE: New and Nutty from Northrop AF News test Lists are now repaired Escape from Kuwait [was Re: Reference] Additional skonk ... Another tidbit from Av Week.... X-44 in Air and Space Re: Another tidbit from Av Week.... F-22 Serial Numbers Re: F-22 Serial Numbers F-117 serial numbers F-117 numbers Slow time on the list? Re: Slow time on the list? Re: Slow time on the list? Book recommendation *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 20:44:06 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Stealth, counterstealth article in New Scientist http://www.newscientist.com/ns/19991204/seekanddes.html Not bad, though pretty nontechnical. Passive coherent location seems to be a hot topic these days. FWIW, though not mentioned in the article, the USAF Space Battlelab at Schriever AFB recently did a study of the utility of PCL for space surveillance: http://www.schriever.af.mil/battlelab/%5Fprivate/star/star.htm ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 13:14:22 -0500 From: "Andrew Morris" Subject: RE: X-44A The F-16 VISTA was based here in Buffalo, NY being flown by the former Calspan Corp. (just renamed) I haven't seen it overhead in some time, and don't know for sure if it is still here. AndyMorris - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of David Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 3:39 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: X-44A From: Gunman and Jacks To: Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 7:49 PM Subject: Re: X-44A > David wrote: > *snip* > > > > >As the success of this programme is clearly going to be a key factor in the > >X-44a , does anyone have any new info on the status of the F-15 ACTIVE > >programme ? > > > > I haven't seen anything new on the F-15 ACTIVE, but I know there was some > work being done on the F-16 VISTA nozzle (a year ago maybe?), which > should/could rollover to the ACTIVE. But, I'm not sure the funding stayed, > since I haven't seen anything on it recently. Thanks for getting back to me with the info. Sorry for the delay in responding. I'm told the F-15 ACTIVE programme at Dryden has been cancelled recently - which is a crying shame, but the IFCS programme is still up and running. Not sure what the future holds for the ACTIVE, but hopefully it'll be back in the air before too long. Best Dave ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 23:03:49 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: Reference In the event anyone missed this reference on rec.aviation.military http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:54:29 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Escape from Kuwait [was Re: Reference] Terry has left the communications semi-trailer... The U-2 continues to fly from Kuwait... Terry - ----------------- John Szalay wrote: > > In the event anyone missed this reference on rec.aviation.military > > http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:25:08 -0500 (EST) From: george.allegrezza@altavista.net Subject: New and Nutty from Northrop Heinz and the boys present us with something fun for the holidays: http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05984231__ issued about three weeks ago. I must admit I never thought of a variable-geomentry FSW aircraft with the pivot at the rear. I would expect that a wing with a leading edge that becomes a trailing edge would present a significant design and manufacturing challenge, not to mention edge management. The general arrangement, including the dorsal intakes, is in some ways reminiscient of the Grumman ASTEI-derived high-speed, high-altitude strike aircraft designs circa 1979, although IIRC none of those designs eliminated the vertical tail surfaces. One wonders if this design is in any way related to the Sweetman/Douglass "Northrop A-17" theory of a few years back. Yes, the movable forward surfaces don't form a triangle with the wing in it's most forward swept position, but this is a patent drawing, not an actual design rendering. There is a YF-23-like nose chine (in the drawing, at least). You could also infer the possibility of a more stealthy intake and nozzle combination. In any event, it's something interesting to contemplate . . . George - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:23:21 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: Reference This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40C6.D93143D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" What comes around, goes around? GregW - -----Original Message----- From: John Szalay [mailto:john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net] Sent: December 06, 1999 11:04 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Reference In the event anyone missed this reference on rec.aviation.military http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40C6.D93143D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Reference

What comes around, goes around?  GregW

-----Original Message-----
From: John Szalay [mailto:john.szal= ay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net]
Sent: December 06, 1999 11:04 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: Reference



 In the event anyone missed this reference on = rec.aviation.military

http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm=


- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40C6.D93143D0-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: David Allison Subject: Re: New and Nutty from Northrop > http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05984231__ > > I must admit I never thought of a variable-geomentry FSW aircraft with > the pivot at the rear. I would expect that a wing with a leading edge > that becomes a trailing edge would present a significant design and > manufacturing challenge, not to mention edge management. > > George Not only that, but it seems to me the CG/CL problems would be substantial. - - Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:06:42 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: New and Nutty from Northrop This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40DD.AAC60A1E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" CG/CL? GregW (untechnical and happy about it!) - -----Original Message----- From: David Allison [mailto:allison@habu.org] Sent: December 07, 1999 10:54 AM To: skunk-works Subject: Re: New and Nutty from Northrop > http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05984231__ > > I must admit I never thought of a variable-geomentry FSW aircraft with > the pivot at the rear. I would expect that a wing with a leading edge > that becomes a trailing edge would present a significant design and > manufacturing challenge, not to mention edge management. > > George Not only that, but it seems to me the CG/CL problems would be substantial. - - Dave - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40DD.AAC60A1E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: New and Nutty from Northrop

CG/CL?

GregW (untechnical and happy about it!)

-----Original Message-----
From: David Allison [mailto:allison@habu.org]
Sent: December 07, 1999 10:54 AM
To: skunk-works
Subject: Re: New and Nutty from Northrop


> http://www.patents.ibm.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US05984= 231__
>
> I must admit I never thought of a = variable-geomentry FSW aircraft with
> the pivot at the rear.  I would expect = that a wing with a leading edge
> that becomes a trailing edge would present a = significant design and
> manufacturing challenge, not to mention edge = management. 
>
> George

Not only that, but it seems to me the CG/CL problems = would be
substantial.

- Dave

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40DD.AAC60A1E-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 13:42:05 -0500 (EST) From: David Allison Subject: RE: New and Nutty from Northrop > CG/CL? > > GregW (untechnical and happy about it!) Oops. My bad. Center of Gravity/Center of Lift. - - D ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:14:15 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: New and Nutty from Northrop This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40E7.1ABC71A6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Duh! I shoulda figgered THAT one! thanks GregW - -----Original Message----- From: David Allison [mailto:allison@habu.org] Sent: December 07, 1999 1:42 PM To: 'skunk-works@netwrx1.com' Subject: RE: New and Nutty from Northrop > CG/CL? > > GregW (untechnical and happy about it!) Oops. My bad. Center of Gravity/Center of Lift. - - D - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40E7.1ABC71A6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: New and Nutty from Northrop

Duh!  I shoulda figgered THAT one!

thanks
GregW

-----Original Message-----
From: David Allison [mailto:allison@habu.org]
Sent: December 07, 1999 1:42 PM
To: 'skunk-works@netwrx1.com'
Subject: RE: New and Nutty from Northrop


> CG/CL?
>
> GregW (untechnical and happy about it!)

Oops.  My bad.  Center of Gravity/Center of Lift.

- D

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BF40E7.1ABC71A6-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:32:30 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: AF News A couple of semi-Skunky articles in to-days AF NEWS Global Hawk damaged after successful flight http://www.af.mil/news/Dec1999/n19991208_992204.html And who would have thought of Lockheeds C-5 be classified as a special ops aircraft ? http://www.af.mil/news/Dec1999/n19991208_992197.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 20:40:23 -0600 From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: test testing ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 513 8503 President +1 800 520 4873 FAX Netwrx Consulting Inc. Waukesha, WI USA http://www.netwrx1.com georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 21:06:05 -0600 From: "George R. Kasica" Subject: Lists are now repaired Hello: Due to a system software error here any postings to lists on this server in the last 48 hours MAY have been lost....if you have not seen your message by the time you read this please resend it. Sorry for the inconvenience, ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 513 8503 President +1 800 520 4873 FAX Netwrx Consulting Inc. Waukesha, WI USA http://www.netwrx1.com georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 23:03:44 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Escape from Kuwait [was Re: Reference] Escape from Kuwait [was Re: Reference] Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 21:54:29 -0700 Terry has left the communications semi-trailer... The U-2 continues to fly from Kuwait... Terry - ----------------- John Szalay wrote: > > In the event anyone missed this reference on rec.aviation.military > > http://www.awgnet.com/aviation/avi_news.htm - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 23:20:30 -0800 From: Larry Smith Subject: Additional skonk ... Skunk Works' Mach 3 recon drone would test rocket based combined-cycle engine for shuttle replacement. A very short summary: The program is not yet approved by NASA, but there is a proposal to reengine one of NASA's D-21B aircraft (creating a D-21C ?) with a rocket based combined cycle (RBCC) powerplant and fly it in the 2005 timeframe, using a B-52 as the launcher. Another current candidate to carry the RBCC powerplant is a larger derivative of the X-43 (Hyper-X) vehicle (X-43 with a scramjet is currently scheduled to first fly under power sometime next summer). The decision between the two is expected in the 2003 timeframe by a NASA Marshall led team. For those of you who don't know what a RBCC is, it is an airbreathing cycle and a rocket cycle both combined in the same engine (thus the name 'combined cycle'). You can save weight and size and even get enhanced capability by combining two different engine cycles in one physical engine compared to tacking on two seperate physical engines. Engines like this have been successfully built, ground tested, and even test flown back in the 50's and 60's, but they never caught on because, ..., heck who knows why they never caught on, it's still a good idea! Finally! Anyway, check out the article. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 07:54:29 -0500 From: John Stone Subject: Another tidbit from Av Week.... Hello, I'm suprised that no one noticed this in the latest Av Week: >The pilot of a classified U.S. aircraft last week told the FAA's >Albuquerque Center that he was "above Flight Level 600" (60,000 >ft.), but couldn't disclose his actual altitude. Later, the aircraft >was being refueled by "Gasser 11," a tanker from Altus AFB, Okla., >when he also declined to identify his aircraft type, noting that he >"wasn't allowed to say" what he was flying. The unidentified vehicle >was in AR-623, a refueling track over northern New Mexico at one >point. Steve Douglass, editor of "Intercepts Newsletter" in >Amarillo, Tex., recorded part of the radio interchange at about 3:50 >p.m. CDT on Dec. 2. I thought that the FAA could care less about aircraft above FL600, and you where on your own and VFR up there, at least that's what I've been told from U-2 and SR folk. Does this sound fishy....... Best, John John Stone blackbirds@iname.com U-2 & SR-71 Web page: http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 08:49:18 -0500 (EST) From: george.allegrezza@altavista.net Subject: X-44 in Air and Space The current (Dec-Jan) issue of Air and Space has an article on the more well-known of the current X-planes, with some nice artwork of the -32, -35, and -36. In addition, there is a single column ad for their own web site in the back of the mag that contains a small line drawing of the X-44 (plan view). Curiously, the drawing seems to show axisymmetric nozzles. The ad also mentions a link to the X-44 web site on the Air and Space web site (www.airspacemag.com), but a check of the "Supplements" area comes up empty. There are, however, links to the various manufacturer and project web sites for the other X-planes mentioned in the article. The X-39, -41, and -42 are noticeably missing, probably because they are being held pretty close to the vest. And, strictly speaking, the X-42 isn't an airplane, and the X-41 only marginally so. George - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Dec 1999 08:51:38 -0500 From: Joe Donoghue Subject: Re: Another tidbit from Av Week.... At 07:54 AM 12/9/99 -0500, John Stone wrote: >Hello, > >I'm suprised that no one noticed this in the latest Av Week: > >>The pilot of a classified U.S. aircraft last week told the FAA's >>Albuquerque Center that he was "above Flight Level 600" (60,000 >>ft.), but couldn't disclose his actual altitude. Later, the aircraft >>was being refueled by "Gasser 11," a tanker from Altus AFB, Okla., >>when he also declined to identify his aircraft type, noting that he >>"wasn't allowed to say" what he was flying. The unidentified vehicle >>was in AR-623, a refueling track over northern New Mexico at one >>point. Steve Douglass, editor of "Intercepts Newsletter" in >>Amarillo, Tex., recorded part of the radio interchange at about 3:50 >>p.m. CDT on Dec. 2. > >I thought that the FAA could care less about aircraft above FL600, >and you where on your own and VFR up there, at least that's what I've >been told from U-2 and SR folk. > >Does this sound fishy....... Gives the tanker call-sign, but not the (more pertinent) "classified aircraft callsign." I think pilots of classified aircraft are well-briefed on what to say in these situations to avoid calling attention to themselves. Douglass is the guy whose battery ran out just as a Black Manta or some such showed up at an exercise he was observing a few years ago. Looks like he wants some more publicity. Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:38:21 -0500 From: Jim Rotramel Subject: F-22 Serial Numbers Some time ago we had a thread on F-22 serial numbers. I've recently received some new serial number information that clarifies what happened. The short answer is that the serials for the first nine EMD aircraft are 91-4001 through 4009. However the following numbers are what where initially assigned and later canceled: #1 95-4001 #2 96-4002 #3 97-4003 #4 97-4004 #5 98-4005 #6 98-4006 #7 98-4007 #8 98-4008 #9 98-4009 Jim Rotramel ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 00:48:22 -0500 From: Jeff Clark Subject: Re: F-22 Serial Numbers On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 20:38:21 -0500 Jim Rotramel writes: >Some time ago we had a thread on F-22 serial numbers. I've recently >received some new serial number information that clarifies what >happened. The short answer is that the serials for the first nine EMD >aircraft are 91-4001 through 4009. However the following numbers are >what where initially assigned and later canceled: I remember reading somewhere that the year digits in an AF serial number are based on when that particular aircraft got funded, not built. Is that still correct? Why are all the serial numbers from 1991, then? They just allocated funding for the next batch after the initial four; shouldn't those planes get 99- series numbers? Or is this all some fiscal game to make funding work out? Jeff Clark ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1999 13:14:49 -0500 From: Jim Stevenson Subject: F-117 serial numbers Does anyone have a list of F-117 serial numbers that shows total built and those that are no longer in the inventory? Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1999 12:14:43 -0500 From: "Tom C Robison" Subject: F-117 numbers Was it here that someone asked for alist of F-117 tail numbers? If so, see http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/toppan/f117.html Tom R ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 08:44:38 -0500 From: John Stone Subject: Slow time on the list? Hello...... I have not received any Skunk works list messages since the 15th....have I offend someone, or have I been removed from the list form not contributing enough? Best wishes for a happy holiday season to everyone. best, John John Stone blackbirds@iname.com U-2 & SR-71 Web page: http://www.thepoint.net/~jstone/blackbird.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 09:49:54 -0500 From: "Tom C Robison" Subject: Re: Slow time on the list? An oldie but a goodie... Twas the night before Christmas, and all through the skies, Air defenses were up, with electronic eyes. Combat pilots were nestled in ready-room beds, As enemy silhouettes danced in their heads. Every jet on the apron, each SAM in its tube, Was triply-redundantly linked to Blue Cube, And Elint and AWACS gave coverage so dense That nothing that flew could slip through our defense. When out of the klaxon arose such a clatter I dashed to the screen to see what was the matter; I dialed up the gain and then quick as a flash Fine-adjusted the filters to damp out the hash. And there found the source of the warning we'd heeded: An incoming blip, by eight escorts preceded. "Alert status red!" went the word down the wire, As we gave every system the codes that meant "FIRE"! On Aegis! Up Patriot, Phalanx and Hawk! And scramble our fighters -- let's send the whole flock! Launch decoys and missiles! Use chaff by the yard! Get the kitchen sink up! Call the National Guard! They turned toward the target, moved toward it, converged. Till the tracks on the radar all finally merged, And the sky was lit up with a demonic light, As the foe met his fate in the high arctic night. So we sent out some recon to look for debris, Yet all that they found, both on land and on sea Were some toys, a red hat, a charred black leather boot, Broken sleighbells, white hair, and a deer's parachute. Now it isn't quite Christmas, with Saint Nick shot down. There are unhappy kids in each village and town. For the Spirit of Christmas can't hope to evade All the web of defenses we've carefully made. But a crash program's on: Working hard, night and day, All the elves are constructing a radar-proof sleigh. So let's wait for next Christmas, in cheer and in health, For the future has hope: Santa's coming by stealth! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 10:48:33 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Slow time on the list? At 08:44 AM 12/22/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Hello...... > >I have not received any Skunk works list messages since the >15th....have I offend someone, or have I been removed from the list >form not contributing enough? > >Best wishes for a happy holiday season to everyone. > >best, > >John > >John Stone > Appears to be just a slow time for the list........... Happy Holiday's to all............. John Szalay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Dec 99 18:19:13 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Book recommendation One of the best aviation authors around is Bill Sweetman. In 1998 he authored one of the better books on the F-22. This year, he's recently had published a book on the JSF program (Motorbooks, ISBN 0760306281), which I heartily recommend. He gives an overview of how the program got to where it is today. It's kind of general view without too much detail. The only one of the unsuccessful competitors he give much space to is the MDD one and doesn't really explain why it lost (although it deserved to). His history of ASTOVL/CALF/JAST/JSF is good, but does leave out Congress' role in mandating that ASTOVL and JAST be merged into the JSF a year earlier than planned. The real meat of the book is on the two designs which he discusses in detail. He has a lot of new imagery that hasn't been published before. His data is remarkably current, given how long it takes to get a book out. Although he doesn't have a picture of the X-32 with the final wingtips and auxiliary scoops, he does have a schematic of the current configuration of its reaction control system, which was only revised not that long ago. He also explains why these aircraft were designated "X" instead of "YF" (hint: if they held the ATF competition today the -22 and -23 would probably have been designated "X"). He's particularly insightful in his analysis. It's well known that USAF is not that fond of IR or dogfight missiles and Sweetman points out that the shape of the X-35's launch mechanism and airframe doesn't really allow for effective use of IR weapons. One of the things Lockheed did to win the ATF contract was to look at what the AF officially Said it wanted, but then do some intel and find out what the TAcair people Really were after and build to that. Happening again? He also does some interesting projections about the contract and comes out with even those of us who support the basic JSF concept don't like to admit: Although this can be a very cost-effective system, they aren't going to be able to bring it in for the price the Government claims. Those numbers were supposed to be a target goal, but have been mutated into a hard ceiling. He also talks about the schedule. All in all a fine book for this point in time. Art ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V8 #118 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner