From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #25 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Monday, April 10 2000 Volume 09 : Number 025 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Super Valkyrie Re: Super Valkyrie Re: Aircraft Illustratred Re: Aircraft Illustratred Re: Super Valkyrie Re: Super Valkyrie Re: Super Valkyrie X-24C was: AMERICA'S SECRET SPACE PROGRAM AND THE SUPER VALKYRIE Re: Super Valkyrie Re: Military crashes YF-113G revealed Re: YF-113G revealed Fwd: YF-113G revealed *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:45:56 EST From: Liddicoat5@aol.com Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie >>The final sighting occurred on July 12 at 11:45p.m. near >>Lockheed's Hellendale Facility and because it coincided with a >>severe thunderstorm in the Groom Lake area, speculation arose >>that an emergency divert had taken place. I think this citation tells you all you need to know about the journalistic quality of UFO Magazine. I believe this Helendale story originated with Aviation Week, which claimed it was a satellite-launching plane, but no connection to XB-70. In any case, the author of the article has clearly never bothered to look up the Helendale airport in the airport facilities directory: I've flown over it many times: it is a small and rundown dirt strip sitting less than 1/2 a mile from the town of Helendale (and a major freeway). Last time I checked, it didn't even have an aviation gas facility, let alone liquid methane. We can certainly be concerned about the pilots flying this mythical craft if they choose to land at a short dirt runway (well under the landing roll of an XB-70) when Edwards AFB is less than 50 miles away....Ahh, love those UFO magazines...so much more interesting to just reprint garbage rather than do some real research.... Brian D. Liddicoat Chief Executive Officer, Laser Design International, LLC 461 Yerba Buena San Francisco, CA 94127 Phone: (408) 858-9591 Fax: (415) 333-3845 Email: Liddicoat5@aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 14:20:17 -0800 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie >>>The final sighting occurred on July 12 at 11:45p.m. near >>>Lockheed's Hellendale Facility and because it coincided with a >>>severe thunderstorm in the Groom Lake area, speculation arose >>>that an emergency divert had taken place. > >I think this citation tells you all you need to know about the journalistic >quality of UFO Magazine. I believe this Helendale story originated with >Aviation Week, which claimed it was a satellite-launching plane, but no >connection to XB-70. AvLeak described it "XB-70 like". AFAIK, there has been no connection with their sighting or aircraft to the actual XB-70, just mention that it's planform resembles that of the XB-70. In any case, the author of the article has clearly never >bothered to look up the Helendale airport in the airport facilities >directory: I've flown over it many times: it is a small and rundown dirt >strip sitting less than 1/2 a mile from the town of Helendale (and a major >freeway). Last time I checked, it didn't even have an aviation gas facility, >let alone liquid methane. We can certainly be concerned about the pilots >flying this mythical craft if they choose to land at a short dirt runway >(well under the landing roll of an XB-70) when Edwards AFB is less than 50 >miles away....Ahh, love those UFO magazines...so much more interesting to >just reprint garbage rather than do some real research.... Keep in mind that AvLeak printed all of that first. And if an aircraft like the one described needed to land somewhere in a hurry, Helendale would get a lot less attention than Edwards (I'd have to look up the detail of the sighting, but IIRC there were conditions at Edwards that would have made the arrival of anything unusual difficult to hide). And while it may seem to be a very large aircraft, we don't know anything about it's landing role, so it may be too soon to dismiss the sighting based on the length of the runway- and I'm not even sure the a/c was seen using the runway, just over the facility. It's possible that inflight RCS testing or some such was going on. Dan _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Have you exported RSA today? print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Subject: Re: Aircraft Illustratred Hello All, Gavin wrote: >I know that the Skunkworks built Groom Dry Lake (lets use its real >name :) in the 50s for the U-2 testing but today with so many more >"special" projects divisions there could be anyone operating there, >Lockheed Martin, Northrop, EG&G etc. > >I know the Skunkworks is a large organisation do you know how many >projects it has on at the moment? (F-22, C-130X, X-33, F-117 work >etc) Do they have the resources to be working with black projects? Yes, they have the resources, and yes, they are working on and with "Black" projects. No I'm not sure how many projects they are working on. Best, John - -- John Stone blackbirds@iname.com U-2 & SR-71 Web page: http://www.blackbirds.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:30:02 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: Aircraft Illustratred > I know that the Skunkworks built Groom Dry Lake (lets use its real name :) in the 50s for the U-2 testing but today with so many more "special" projects divisions there could be anyone operating there, Lockheed Martin, Northrop, EG&G etc. > > I know the Skunkworks is a large organisation do you know how many projects it has on at the moment? (F-22, C-130X, X-33, F-117 work etc) Do they have the resources to be working with black projects? > The Skunk works has infinite resources and is capable of working on any number of projects at once. At least that's what lockmart wants their shareholders to think... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Corbon > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 1:47 AM > Subject: Re: Aircraft Illustratred > > > > Gavin Payne wrote: > > AI here in the UK is in the middle of running a three part series about Area > 51 and possible the Skunkwork's possible involvement in it all. > Have a look! > > Gavin > > Possible involvement by skunk works at area51? Skunk Works BUILT area51. Well the CIA actually built it for them under the front CLJ . :) > Do you have a link? > ------ > Corbon > > > - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 19:06:24 -0500 (EST) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie > >>>The final sighting occurred on July 12 at 11:45p.m. near > >>>Lockheed's Hellendale Facility and because it coincided with a > >>>severe thunderstorm in the Groom Lake area, speculation arose > >>>that an emergency divert had taken place. > > > >I think this citation tells you all you need to know about the journalistic > >quality of UFO Magazine. I believe this Helendale story originated with > >Aviation Week, which claimed it was a satellite-launching plane, but no > >connection to XB-70. > > AvLeak described it "XB-70 like". AFAIK, there has been no connection > with their sighting or aircraft to the actual XB-70, just mention > that it's planform resembles that of the XB-70. > > In any case, the author of the article has clearly never > >bothered to look up the Helendale airport in the airport facilities > >directory: I've flown over it many times: it is a small and rundown dirt > >strip sitting less than 1/2 a mile from the town of Helendale (and a major > >freeway). Last time I checked, it didn't even have an aviation gas facility, > >let alone liquid methane. We can certainly be concerned about the pilots > >flying this mythical craft if they choose to land at a short dirt runway > >(well under the landing roll of an XB-70) when Edwards AFB is less than 50 > >miles away....Ahh, love those UFO magazines...so much more interesting to > >just reprint garbage rather than do some real research.... > > Keep in mind that AvLeak printed all of that first. And if an > aircraft like the one described needed to land somewhere in a hurry, > Helendale would get a lot less attention than Edwards (I'd have to > look up the detail of the sighting, but IIRC there were conditions at > Edwards that would have made the arrival of anything unusual > difficult to hide). > > And while it may seem to be a very large aircraft, we don't know > anything about it's landing role, so it may be too soon to dismiss > the sighting based on the length of the runway- and I'm not even sure > the a/c was seen using the runway, just over the facility. It's > possible that inflight RCS testing or some such was going on. > > Dan The XB-70 can't exactly land on a dime. Dirt strips are not exactly suitable for high-speed, high-performance jet aircraft. The ingestion of foreign objects alone could cause serious damage to the powerplants, turbofans and turbojets are quite susceptible to FOD (foreign object damage) and replacing fan and compressor blades is not fun nor is it cheap. Besides if the damage is extensive enough it may cause an uncontained failure resulting in loss of the powerplant and possibly causing damage to other powerplants or systems in proximity to the failed powerplant. Sam CIO - Dark Entertainment LLC http://www.darkent.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 16:41:17 -0800 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie >> And while it may seem to be a very large aircraft, we don't know >> anything about it's landing role, so it may be too soon to dismiss >> the sighting based on the length of the runway- and I'm not even sure >> the a/c was seen using the runway, just over the facility. It's >> possible that inflight RCS testing or some such was going on. >> >> Dan My mistake- after looking up the AvLeak article, I see they indicate the observer did see it land at Helendale. > > >The XB-70 can't exactly land on a dime. Dirt strips are not exactly >suitable for >high-speed, high-performance jet aircraft. Once again, this aircraft merely looks like an XB-70. There is no reason to believe it flys like an XB-70, and after re-reading the observer's report in AvLeak, it seems that the a/c performed several turns on approach that would be difficult for anything like the XB-70. The ingestion of foreign objects >alone could cause serious damage to the powerplants, turbofans and >turbojets are >quite susceptible to FOD (foreign object damage) and replacing fan and Yes, but that also assumes that it uses a turbofan or turbojet (or ATR, or...). While it's still very likely that it uses such a powerplant, it's also quite possible that it does not. Any number of unconventional powerplants would not be as susceptible to FOD. And the Helendale RCS facility and strip are supposedly very well taken care of- FOD can affect radar ranges as well, and Lockheed seems to have quite the cleanup crew there. Additionaly, it seems that Lockheed corporate aircraft land at Helendale fairly regularly (including bizjets). Dan _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Have you exported RSA today? print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie > >>> And while it may seem to be a very large aircraft, we don't know >>> anything about it's landing role, so it may be too soon to dismiss >>> the sighting based on the length of the runway- and I'm not even sure >>> the a/c was seen using the runway, just over the facility. It's >>> possible that inflight RCS testing or some such was going on. >>> >>> Dan > > My mistake- after looking up the AvLeak article, I see they indicate > the observer did see it land at Helendale. > >> >> >>The XB-70 can't exactly land on a dime. Dirt strips are not exactly >>suitable for >>high-speed, high-performance jet aircraft. > > Once again, this aircraft merely looks like an XB-70. There is no > reason to believe it flys like an XB-70, and after re-reading the > observer's report in AvLeak, it seems that the a/c performed several > turns on approach that would be difficult for anything like the XB-70. > > The ingestion of foreign objects >>alone could cause serious damage to the powerplants, turbofans and I have doubts about secret aircraft landing at the Lockheed facility too. You can easily see it from I-15, from Hodge to Sidewinder Road, and with binoculars, you can see it very well. The hangar seems about large enough for a Lear or Citation jet, but not for something as large as an XB-70 size aircraft. (Photo of Hangar/support buildings - courtesy of Tom Mahood) http://www.serve.com/mahood/RCS/hd-opshq.jpg In September 1999, the Helendale RCS facility began full-scale pole tests of the F-22 Raptor. If this were underway, I doubt they would run RCS testing on another airframe at the same time. (Photo of RCS facility - courtesy of Tom Mahood) http://www.serve.com/mahood/RCS/hd-mainn.jpg Anyway, that's my two-cents. Wayne Wayne Busse wings@sky.net >>turbojets are >>quite susceptible to FOD (foreign object damage) and replacing fan and > > Yes, but that also assumes that it uses a turbofan or turbojet (or > ATR, or...). While it's still very likely that it uses such a > powerplant, it's also quite possible that it does not. Any number of > unconventional powerplants would not be as susceptible to FOD. And > the Helendale RCS facility and strip are supposedly very well taken > care of- FOD can affect radar ranges as well, and Lockheed seems to > have quite the cleanup crew there. Additionaly, it seems that > Lockheed corporate aircraft land at Helendale fairly regularly > (including bizjets). > > Dan > > > > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_ > /_/_/_/_/_/_/ > Have you exported RSA today? > print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> > )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 > _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/_ > /_/_/_/_/_/_/ > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:45:04 -0800 From: Larry Smith Subject: X-24C was: AMERICA'S SECRET SPACE PROGRAM AND THE SUPER VALKYRIE Dan writes: >AFAIK, FDL-5 wasn't "highly classified". Several books and papers >I've seen have detailed it an it's derivatives. AFAIK = As Far As I Know? Yes, the hypersonic FDL (Flight Dynamics Laboratory (USAF)) shapes have been pretty available for those who have been interested. I suggest Alfred Draper's lifting body papers for those who are interested. In fact, the X-24B's shape is pretty close to those shapes itself. The X-24B was also given a FDL designation of FDL-8 (as it was a derivative of earlier hypersonic FDL developed shapes). That was the point about doing the X-24B, to test inexpensively, a hypersonic shape in the supersonic regime and subsonic regime, as both regimes must be passed through while accelerating to hypersonic speed, as well as slowing down for landing. A fully capable hypersonic test vehicle would be much more expensive. One of Alfred Draper's papers has a nice series of photos of an X-24A (really a SV-5) being converted to the X-24B. >IIRC, X-24C was to be a Titan-launched test vehicle, IIRC? - ?? Sorry! Please don't use acronyms! I thought it was to be B-52 launched. Where did you see that it was Titan launched? > ... and actually did >fly in some form as part of the ATHENA and HAVE MILL test series >flown from Green River and Wake Island. DOE's OpenNet does have a >number of unclassified references to these tests. That's really interesting! What did you search OpenNet with? I haven't been able to find this information. The significance is the following: The X-24C has a unique distinction in the hypersonic world, even though it was never built. It is the first hypersonic configuration to have a complete nose-to-tail hypersonic CFD run, including full viscous effects! See: "Numerical Simulation of Flow Past the X24C Reentry Vehicle," D. Gaitonde and J. Shang, AIAA 93-0319, 31st Aerospace Sciences Meeting & Exhibit, Reno, 1992. Given that, if they actually flew that configuration, that would serve to validate the CFD done to estimate the performance of that configuration. Such a thing can lead to hypersonic vehicle design tools, which could be used to design similar configurations! This does not prove that a manned configuration of that type exists, indeed, I don't believe such a thing was built, but it does establish that design tools that would establish less risk to estimating the performance of such a full-scale vehicle design, exist. Such a thing is useful to people who design hypersonic vehicles. When were these flight experiments flown? >>aircraft published in 1982, reported that Lockheed had already >>flown an experimental aircraft capable of sustained flight at >>Mach 6. >>[ Francillion's exact words ... >> "Hypersonic Project: Even less is known about this project but the >> author believes that ADP has flown at least one prototype of a >> hypersonic research aircraft. Apparently, this manned vehicle has >> demonstrated it's ability to cruise at Mach 6."] >Which wouldn't be the X-24C, since it was a rocket boosted vehicle >and wasn't a design suited for integration of a powerplant. I'm pretty sure that the X-24C was to be rocket powered. Also in one of Alfred Draper's papers, there is a foil presentation slide shown that indicates that X-24C was proposed as a testbed for ramjet and scramjet engines, hypersonic weapons stores seperation tests, hypersonic radar radome development tests, ..., and other tests (I don't have it in front of me at the moment). Larry ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:40:09 +0100 From: "David" Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie From: To: Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2000 10:45 PM Subject: Re: Super Valkyrie | >>The final sighting occurred on July 12 at 11:45p.m. near | >>Lockheed's Hellendale Facility and because it coincided with a | >>severe thunderstorm in the Groom Lake area, speculation arose | >>that an emergency divert had taken place. | | I think this citation tells you all you need to know about the | journalistic quality of UFO Magazine. I believe this Helendale story originated with | Aviation Week, which claimed it was a satellite-launching plane, but no | connection to XB-70. Please forgive me if I've missed something here. I don't read UFO mags, but I do know Bill Rose, and so I'm not happy with your assessment of his article - the re-production of which was almost certainly in breech of copyright. No date either - which doesn't help fix the time-frame. I'm sure AW&ST, which you agree was the original source for the Helendale story would be delighted to be compared with a UFO ma and by your inference, with shoddy journalism. I hope you wrote a stiff letter to David North in which you pointed out the errors. Isn't it par for the course with writing about classified programmes ( real or imagined) that journalists get some things right and some things are wrong ? It's only meant to be educated guesswork anyway. No one in their right mind would want classified information to be leaked, regardless of how interesting that info (or a/c) might be. You've also lost me on the XB-70 reference: you state the a/c Bill was referring to 'had no connection to the XB-70, then go on to say the strip's length was 'well under than the landing roll of the XB-70.' If the a/c has no connection with the Valkyrie - why is its landing roll relevant ? As far as Edwards being just fifty miles away - I've spoken to pilots who had to put down in some very odd places with airfields a good deal closer than fifty miles. A Royal Navy helicopter recently landed in the middle of a soccer pitch at half-time and resulted in the game's cancellation. Sometimes, when you gotta put down - you gotta put down. If you're flying a classified a/c - it would not be acceptable to land on the freeway. Better to land where the site can be secured, even if it's not ideal. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:51:02 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Re: Military crashes The site cited below is AAIR (Aviation Archaeological Investigation & Research) and a new one to me. Anyone seen this outfit before? Terry "Your source for U.S. military aircraft accident reports and individual aircraft record (history) cards." - ------------- > Hello Terry, > > Don't have any information. Try at < http://www.sonic.net/azfuller/ >. > > Richard > > "Terry W. Colvin" wrote: > > > Hello Richard, > > > > Your database is proving helpful to folks on the TLCB (see below) mailing > > lists. Thank you. > > > > While searching the net for a Thai military helicopter crash (20 Feb 1998) > > I couldn't find any reference. The Bangkok Post newspaper archive did have > > an article which I was directed to by someone living in Thailand. > > > > Do complete military databases exist by country, region and/or globally? > > > > See ya, > > > > Terry > > > > -----< http://www.planecrashinfo.com > > > This accident database includes all known civil aviation accidents > > which resulted in ten or more fatalities and all military aviation > > accidents which resulted in fifty or more fatalities. Some > > accidents with fewer or no fatalities have been included when > > they are noteworthy, such as the death of a famous > > person. The date and time of accidents are local. Midair > > collisions list the number of people aboard and fatalities for both > > aircraft. > > > > -- > > Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) > > < fortean1@frontiernet.net > > > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > > > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * > > TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program > > ------------ > > Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List > > TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > > > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: > > Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade > > (Jan 71 - Aug 72) > > Thailand/Laos > > - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand > > (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) > > - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand > > (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site > > (Aug 73 - Jan 74) - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:59:00 -0400 (EDT) From: george.allegrezza@altavista.net Subject: YF-113G revealed From today's AviationNow (the Aviation Week website): Early USAF Stealth Testbed by Michael A. Dornheim And David A. Fulghum Aviation Week & Space Technology Secrets continue to trickle out of the U.S. Air Force's black world about the fertile period of the late 1970s when the U.S. was researching and building its first stealth aircraft capabilities. The F-117 light bomber was announced to the public in the late 1980s. In the 1990s, the Air Force revealed its work on Have Blue, two test aircraft that demonstrated the faceted skin used on the F-117, and Tacit Blue--a smooth-skinned aircraft shaped like a butter dish and designed to carry a low-probability-of-intercept radar for ground surveillance. The Have Blue aircraft were destroyed and buried in Nevada. Tacit Blue is in the Air Force Museum. Now Air Force officials have told Aviation Week of yet another aircraft of the period--the YF-113G. It was flown "over 20 years ago" from the restricted Nevada test ranges north of Las Vegas, said one official. Nellis AFB is the titular home of generations of black, captured and purloined aircraft that were actually flown from the heavily guarded Tonaph and Groom Lake bases. The YF-113G was "an airframe that came before Have Blue and the F-117," a second official said. "We used it in the initial work to examine the stealth edges problem." He added that by the early 1980s, the YF-113G apparently had outlived its usefulness and was no longer on the Air Force roll of classified aircraft programs receiving funding. Copyright April 10, 2000 The McGraw-Hill Companies - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 17:50:43 -0700 From: Larry Smith Subject: Re: YF-113G revealed >Now Air Force officials have told Aviation Week >of yet another aircraft of the period--the YF-113G. Hmmm. The 113 designation and the 'G' model to boot! I wonder what happened to the A thru F models? I'll be somewhat skeptical until we find out more. Thanks George for the update. Larry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:17:24 -0400 (EDT) From: george.allegrezza@altavista.net Subject: Fwd: YF-113G revealed Interesting. As of 9:10 PM EDT today, this story has disappeared from the website. It was hyperlinked from the AW&ST TOC page, so I assume the article exists in print form in this week's issue. ---- you wrote: > From today's AviationNow (the Aviation Week website): > > > Early USAF Stealth Testbed > > > by Michael A. Dornheim And David A. Fulghum > > Aviation Week & Space Technology > > Secrets continue to trickle out of the U.S. Air Force's black world about the fertile period of the late 1970s when the U.S. was researching and building its first stealth aircraft capabilities. > > The F-117 light bomber was announced to the public in the late 1980s. In the 1990s, the Air Force revealed its work on Have Blue, two test aircraft that demonstrated the faceted skin used on the F-117, and Tacit Blue--a smooth-skinned aircraft shaped like a butter dish and designed to carry a low-probability-of-intercept radar for ground surveillance. The Have Blue aircraft were destroyed and buried in Nevada. Tacit Blue is in the Air Force Museum. > > Now Air Force officials have told Aviation Week of yet another aircraft of the period--the YF-113G. It was flown "over 20 years ago" from the restricted Nevada test ranges north of Las Vegas, said one official. Nellis AFB is the titular home of generations of black, captured and purloined aircraft that were actually flown from the heavily guarded Tonaph and Groom Lake bases. The YF-113G was "an airframe that came before Have Blue and the F-117," a second official said. "We used it in the initial work to examine the stealth edges problem." He added that by the early 1980s, the YF-113G apparently had outlived its usefulness and was no longer on the Air Force roll of classified aircraft programs receiving funding. > > > Copyright April 10, 2000 The McGraw-Hill Companies > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #25 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner