From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #30 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Saturday, April 15 2000 Volume 09 : Number 030 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #28 RE: Acquired aircraft YF-110,YF-113 Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #28 Re: YF-110,YF-113 Re: YF-110,YF-113 -117 in the 60's/Companion Laser designator F117 Upgrades Re: Acquired aircraft Re: YF-110,YF-113 Re: -117 in the 60's/Companion Laser designator RE: White Triangle Re: OT: engineering slang "unobtanium" *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:15:04 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #28 > At 02:45 PM 4/14/00 -0500, Someone wrote: > > > >During the 1970s and 1980s, numerical designations for captured or > >clandestinely obtained foreign aircraft and U.S. "black" projects were > >assigned numerical designations on a chronological basis by the Flight > >Records Group at Norton AFB, Calif., hence the F-117 stealth fighter and > >other classified, U.S.-built projects appears in the same sequence as > >re-designated Soviet aircraft. > > > This of course is the official obfuscation, and of course we are all > zomibies and believe everything told us by official sources :) > > As I said, the story doesn't wring out, because my friend Dave Weber at > davweber@gte.net, worked on casting the handles for the F117 circa > 1968 -1969. He can provide more details as to the blueprints, who > provided them (an unusual story as it was some "Oil Company"). Your friend either belongs in a federal penitentiary or a mental hospital. > > And hasn't anyone's eyebrows been raised by the video footage of F117 > attacks on Baghadad. It was a two craft operation, one LASED the target, > while the other let loose a missle, and in one released footage you can > hear the conversation between the targeting aircraft and the delivery craft. A missile? F-117s carried LGBs not AGMs. Conversation huh? Lemme get this straight there was a conversation over the target area despite strict orders to maintain radio silence for the duration of the mission? Use of radio communications would have defeated any stealth advantages the F-117 might have had. > But what interests me more than anything, is that the targeting aircraft > "hoveres" as evidenced by the fact that there was no change in angle, depth > perception or anything else as the targeting aircraft LASED its target. In > other words the targeting aircraft is quite obviously in a "hover" mode. Haven't you heard of realtime image stabilization, image filtering and image processing? Besides the pentagon would never have cleared that video for public release if there was the slightest chance it might reveal the existence of an obviously top secret asset? > > When other aircraft are used as targeting craft, such as the F111 (not used > in Baghad) you can see movement in the video, in other words the craft and > its camera are obviously moving, as there is a constant and gradual change > in resolution, perception and angle, but not in the F117 attacks on Baghdad. The F-117 most likely uses digital video while the F-111 does not. You can do just about anything with DV. > > Seems to me then, that this esoteric craft has a lot more technology > wrapped up in it, than its design, paint and material construction. > > Let's hear some more official "explanations". > I just rejected all your arguments without even trying and I don't even work for the government, actually I do, but they don't know it yet. If I have offended you, you may exact your revenge upon my poor, defenseless territory at http://war.darkent.com, you may even use thermo-nuclear weapons if you so desire. My territory is #7. Have fun! Belligerent Sam CIO - Dark Entertainment LLC http://www.darkent.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:16:58 -0400 From: "Frank Markus" Subject: RE: Acquired aircraft This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BFA6D4.7F042980 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Didn't an Iranian F-14 (and Phoenix missile) go to the Soviets after the fall of the Shah? -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Shade Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:24 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Acquired aircraft "An obvious question is whether there is an analogous list of western-block aircraft acquired by the Soviets and Chinese during the cold war? Did this occur? It is a topic that I've never heard much about." Yeah the U2 (in pieces)! :) Seriously though, I would have to speculate that there were some NATO jets that made it into combloc countries but I doubt as many as we have grabbed from them. Probably not too many defections, but I would guess that some things were captured by accidents and battles, at least some good chunks of metal and avionics but who knows about a whole jet? It's a good question that I hope someone knows more. I have another question. Does anyone think we have snatched (or bought) an Su-23 yet? ~~~~ Shade - ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BFA6D4.7F042980 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Didn't=20 an Iranian F-14 (and Phoenix missile) go to the Soviets after the fall = of the=20 Shah?
-----Original Message-----
From:=20 owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com = [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On=20 Behalf Of Shade
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:24=20 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: Re: = Acquired=20 aircraft

"An obvious question is whether there is = an=20 analogous list of western-block
aircraft acquired by the Soviets = and=20 Chinese during the cold war? Did this
occur? It is a topic that = I've never=20 heard much about."
 =20

Yeah the U2 (in pieces)!  :)=20

Seriously though, I would have to speculate that there were some = NATO jets=20 that made it into combloc countries but I doubt as many as we have = grabbed=20 from them. Probably not too many defections, but I would guess that = some=20 things were captured by accidents and battles, at least some good = chunks of=20 metal and avionics but who knows about a whole jet? It's a good = question that=20 I hope someone knows more.=20

I have another question. Does anyone think we have snatched (or = bought) an=20 Su-23 yet? 
~~~~
Shade

- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01BFA6D4.7F042980-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:48:57 PDT From: "wayne binkley" Subject: YF-110,YF-113 the following is an "official" USAF biography.the interesting part is at the bottom ,a listing of acft flown.i****** out the pilots name. wayne d.binkley JOHN T. M******K Mr. M******k entered the Air Force and was commissioned in 1969 through Officer Training School, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. He completed undergraduate pilot training in 1970 and numerous tours in tactical aviation as a flight commander and operations officer. He later served as commander of the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron. He completed two staff tours, first as chief of aircrew assignments, Headquarters Tactical Air Command and later as chief of policy and programs division, directorate of test and evaluation, Headquarters, U.S. Air Force. He retired from active duty as a colonel in 1994. CAREER CHRONOLOGY: 1. April 1969 - April 1970, student, pilot training, Randolph Air Force Base, Texas 2. April 1970 - October 1970, student, T-38 instructor training, Tyndall Air Force Base, Fla. 3. October 1970 - August 1973, T-38 instructor pilot, 3500th Flying Training Squadron, Reese Air Force Base, Texas 4. August 1973 - January 1974, student, F-4 replacement training unit, George Air Force Base, Calif. 5. January 1974 - June 1974, F-4 pilot, 435th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Ubon Air Base, Thailand 6. June 1974 - January 1975, F-4 instructor pilot, 4th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Udorn Air Base, Thailand 7. January 1975 - September 1978, flight commander, 313th Tactical Fighter Squadron, Hahn Air Base, West Germany 8. September 1978 - January 1979, student, F-5E aggressor training, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. 9. January 1979 - January 1982, chief, standardization and evaluation, 527th Aggressor Squadron, Royal Air Force Station Alconbury, England 10. January 1982 - June 1982, student, Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, Va. 11. June 1982 - January 1985, chief, aircrew assignments, directorate of personnel, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va. 12. January 1985 - November 1985, operations officer, 64th Aggressor Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. 13. November 1985 - November 1987, squadron commander, 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. 14. November 1987 - June 1988, assistant director for operations, 57th Fighter Weapon Wing, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. 15. June 1988 - June 1989, student, Air War College, Maxwell Air Force Base, Ala. 16. June 1989 - May 1990, chief, warfighting analysis division, director of plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. 17. May 1990 - January 1995, chief, operational test and evaluation division, director of plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. 18. January 1995 - January 1998, deputy director, test and evaluation, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. 19. January 1998 - present, director, test and evaluation, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. FLIGHT INFORMATION: Flight hours: More than 3,500 Aircraft flown: T-38, F-4C/D/E, F-5E, YF-110 and YF-113 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:21:22 +0100 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #28 > And hasn't anyone's eyebrows been raised by the video footage of F117 > attacks on Baghadad. It was a two craft operation, one LASED the target, > while the other let loose a missle, and in one released footage you can > hear the conversation between the targeting aircraft and the delivery craft. I'm confused here, is the word missile a typo and you actually meant bomb or did you actually mean missile? Anything other than a gravity powered bomb would certainly attract the visual attention of AAA gunners. As for communication between a targeting F117 (lets assume there were two per sortie), that would also break the basic rules of stealth, even if they used HaveQuick or similar technology radios. > But what interests me more than anything, is that the targeting aircraft > "hoveres" as evidenced by the fact that there was no change in angle, depth > perception or anything else as the targeting aircraft LASED its target. In > other words the targeting aircraft is quite obviously in a "hover" mode. > > When other aircraft are used as targeting craft, such as the F111 (not used > in Baghad) you can see movement in the video, in other words the craft and > its camera are obviously moving, as there is a constant and gradual change > in resolution, perception and angle, but not in the F117 attacks on Baghdad. I have seen combat video footage from an RAF Tornado using TIALD where its been avoiding a SAM and lighting a target at the same time. Gyroscopes can be amazing things.... > Seems to me then, that this esoteric craft has a lot more technology > wrapped up in it, than its design, paint and material construction. I'm not convinced, the relatively low unit cost of those aircraft would make it difficult to add anything but the norm to such an aircraft. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:26:00 +0100 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: Re: YF-110,YF-113 Anyone who does a search on www.af.mil for YF-110 will find what you found. Does anyone dare email the USAF and ask them what these two aircraft are? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "wayne binkley" To: Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: YF-110,YF-113 > the following is an "official" USAF biography.the interesting part is at the > bottom ,a listing of acft flown.i****** out the pilots name. > > wayne d.binkley > > JOHN T. M******K > > > Mr. M******k entered the Air Force and was commissioned in 1969 through > Officer Training School, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. He completed > undergraduate pilot training in 1970 and numerous tours in tactical aviation > as a flight commander and operations officer. He later served as commander > of the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron. He completed two staff tours, > first as chief of aircrew assignments, Headquarters Tactical Air Command and > later as chief of policy and programs division, directorate of test and > evaluation, Headquarters, U.S. Air Force. He retired from active duty as a > colonel in 1994. > CAREER CHRONOLOGY: > 1. April 1969 - April 1970, student, pilot training, Randolph Air Force > Base, Texas > 2. April 1970 - October 1970, student, T-38 instructor training, Tyndall Air > Force Base, Fla. > 3. October 1970 - August 1973, T-38 instructor pilot, 3500th Flying Training > Squadron, Reese Air Force Base, Texas > 4. August 1973 - January 1974, student, F-4 replacement training unit, > George Air Force Base, Calif. > 5. January 1974 - June 1974, F-4 pilot, 435th Tactical Fighter Squadron, > Ubon Air Base, Thailand > 6. June 1974 - January 1975, F-4 instructor pilot, 4th Tactical Fighter > Squadron, Udorn Air Base, Thailand > 7. January 1975 - September 1978, flight commander, 313th Tactical Fighter > Squadron, Hahn Air Base, West Germany > 8. September 1978 - January 1979, student, F-5E aggressor training, Nellis > Air Force Base, Nev. > 9. January 1979 - January 1982, chief, standardization and evaluation, 527th > Aggressor Squadron, Royal Air Force Station Alconbury, England > 10. January 1982 - June 1982, student, Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, > Va. > 11. June 1982 - January 1985, chief, aircrew assignments, directorate of > personnel, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va. > 12. January 1985 - November 1985, operations officer, 64th Aggressor > Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 13. November 1985 - November 1987, squadron commander, 4477th Test and > Evaluation Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 14. November 1987 - June 1988, assistant director for operations, 57th > Fighter Weapon Wing, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 15. June 1988 - June 1989, student, Air War College, Maxwell Air Force Base, > Ala. > 16. June 1989 - May 1990, chief, warfighting analysis division, director of > plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 17. May 1990 - January 1995, chief, operational test and evaluation > division, director of plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 18. January 1995 - January 1998, deputy director, test and evaluation, > Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 19. January 1998 - present, director, test and evaluation, Headquarters U.S. > Air Force, Washington, D.C. > > > FLIGHT INFORMATION: > Flight hours: More than 3,500 > Aircraft flown: T-38, F-4C/D/E, F-5E, YF-110 and YF-113 > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:28:48 +0100 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: Re: YF-110,YF-113 Anyone speak Spanish? If so General Ryan has done something with the following Aviões de Caça (1.798): 135 A-10 Thunderbolt, 96 OA-10, 627 F-15 Eagle, 780 F-16 Fighting Falcon, 102 F-111 Raven, 54 F-117, 1 YF-15 e 3 YF-117 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "wayne binkley" To: Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 5:48 PM Subject: YF-110,YF-113 > the following is an "official" USAF biography.the interesting part is at the > bottom ,a listing of acft flown.i****** out the pilots name. > > wayne d.binkley > > JOHN T. M******K > > > Mr. M******k entered the Air Force and was commissioned in 1969 through > Officer Training School, Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. He completed > undergraduate pilot training in 1970 and numerous tours in tactical aviation > as a flight commander and operations officer. He later served as commander > of the 4477th Test and Evaluation Squadron. He completed two staff tours, > first as chief of aircrew assignments, Headquarters Tactical Air Command and > later as chief of policy and programs division, directorate of test and > evaluation, Headquarters, U.S. Air Force. He retired from active duty as a > colonel in 1994. > CAREER CHRONOLOGY: > 1. April 1969 - April 1970, student, pilot training, Randolph Air Force > Base, Texas > 2. April 1970 - October 1970, student, T-38 instructor training, Tyndall Air > Force Base, Fla. > 3. October 1970 - August 1973, T-38 instructor pilot, 3500th Flying Training > Squadron, Reese Air Force Base, Texas > 4. August 1973 - January 1974, student, F-4 replacement training unit, > George Air Force Base, Calif. > 5. January 1974 - June 1974, F-4 pilot, 435th Tactical Fighter Squadron, > Ubon Air Base, Thailand > 6. June 1974 - January 1975, F-4 instructor pilot, 4th Tactical Fighter > Squadron, Udorn Air Base, Thailand > 7. January 1975 - September 1978, flight commander, 313th Tactical Fighter > Squadron, Hahn Air Base, West Germany > 8. September 1978 - January 1979, student, F-5E aggressor training, Nellis > Air Force Base, Nev. > 9. January 1979 - January 1982, chief, standardization and evaluation, 527th > Aggressor Squadron, Royal Air Force Station Alconbury, England > 10. January 1982 - June 1982, student, Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, > Va. > 11. June 1982 - January 1985, chief, aircrew assignments, directorate of > personnel, Headquarters Tactical Air Command, Langley Air Force Base, Va. > 12. January 1985 - November 1985, operations officer, 64th Aggressor > Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 13. November 1985 - November 1987, squadron commander, 4477th Test and > Evaluation Squadron, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 14. November 1987 - June 1988, assistant director for operations, 57th > Fighter Weapon Wing, Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. > 15. June 1988 - June 1989, student, Air War College, Maxwell Air Force Base, > Ala. > 16. June 1989 - May 1990, chief, warfighting analysis division, director of > plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 17. May 1990 - January 1995, chief, operational test and evaluation > division, director of plans, Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 18. January 1995 - January 1998, deputy director, test and evaluation, > Headquarters U.S. Air Force, Washington, D.C. > 19. January 1998 - present, director, test and evaluation, Headquarters U.S. > Air Force, Washington, D.C. > > > FLIGHT INFORMATION: > Flight hours: More than 3,500 > Aircraft flown: T-38, F-4C/D/E, F-5E, YF-110 and YF-113 > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:32:46 -0700 (PDT) From: --TIGGER-- Subject: -117 in the 60's/Companion Laser designator At 02:45 PM 4/14/00 -0500, Lee Markland As I said, the story doesn't wring out, because my friend Dave Weber at >davweber@gte.net, worked on casting the handles for the F117 circa >1968 -1969. He can provide more details as to the blueprints, who >provided them (an unusual story as it was some "Oil Company"). I don't buy it. It's possible that your friend was involved with some other project, but not the -117A. >And hasn't anyone's eyebrows been raised by the video footage of F117 > attacks on Baghadad. It was a two craft operation, one LASED the > target, > while the other let loose a missle, and in one released footage you can > hear the conversation between the targeting aircraft and the delivery > craft. > When other aircraft are used as targeting craft, such as the F111 (not > used > in Baghad) you can see movement in the video, in other words the craft > and > its camera are obviously moving, as there is a constant and gradual > change > in resolution, perception and angle, but not in the F117 attacks on > Baghdad. I really don't know what footage you are refering to. DO you have a date/target name handy?? (Maybe a callsign for the mission?) In all the DS (and Allied Force footage may I add) the target is DEFINANTLY being flown over. (IE-Not "Hovering") I would like to hear a description of the HUD image...maybe you have a viffing Apache by accidnet. What does all the data markings on the HUD look like? That would confirm it is -117 footage. Also, I believe (although I don't know if this ever happended in DS) that targets can be illuminated by teams on the ground. (Special Forces I would assume) This could have been the case. (I doubt there would be radio chatter though since in 91 the -117 did not have a secured data link. I could be misinformed there though.) - -Kevin Helm F-117A: The Black Jet Website http://members.xooom.com/goatsucker (Relaunching later this week) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:15:58 +0100 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: F117 Upgrades I found this document on FAS.org regarding proposed upgrades to the F117 fleet. In summary they want the following (it makes you wonder how it manages to fly today!): New navigation computer (going from 256K to 2Mb Ram!) New IFF antenna that can be always on. Updated INS and new GPS system Replacement for the halon used in fuel tanks New battery system JDAM/WCMD systems New fuel systems Electric APU starter system New RAM coatings Secure data links New engine inlet grids New oxygen system JASSM integration ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:36:03 -0500 From: Shade Subject: Re: Acquired aircraft  

Frank Markus wrote:

 Didn't an Iranian F-14 (and Phoenix missile) go to the Soviets after the fall of the Shah?
 
"An obvious question is whether there is an analogous list of western-block
aircraft acquired by the Soviets and Chinese during the cold war? Did this
occur? It is a topic that I've never heard much about."
 

Yeah the U2 (in pieces)!  :)

Seriously though, I would have to speculate that there were some NATO jets that made it into combloc countries but I doubt as many as we have grabbed from them. Probably not too many defections, but I would guess that some things were captured by accidents and battles, at least some good chunks of metal and avionics but who knows about a whole jet? It's a good question that I hope someone knows more.

I have another question. Does anyone think we have snatched (or bought) an Su-23 yet?
~~~~
Shade

 

I don't know about the F-14 but I made a typo I wanted to clear up before everyone notices and starts thinking me an idiot.

I meant Su-27 not 23. (hoping no one even noticed that)
~~~~~
Shade
  ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:39:56 -0700 From: Dan Zinngrabe Subject: Re: YF-110,YF-113 >Anyone who does a search on www.af.mil for YF-110 will find what you found. >Does anyone dare email the USAF and ask them what these two aircraft are? > A well put together FOIA request might be a better bet. The more information you can give them on what you're looking for, the better. A program description would probably be more than enough to ask for, and wouldn't cost too much. Dan _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Have you exported RSA today? print pack"C*",split/\D+/,`echo "16iII*o\U@{$/=$z;[(pop,pop,unpack"H*",<> )]}\EsMsKsN0[lN*1lK[d2%Sa2/d0 Subject: Re: -117 in the 60's/Companion Laser designator " Also, I believe (although I don't
know if this ever happended in DS) that targets can be illuminated by
teams on the ground. (Special Forces I would assume)
-Kevin Helm"
 

Yes it can be done and it was in DS. There were actually a lot of SF soldiers in Iraq and Kuwait all throughout DShield and DStorm. On 'opening night' a lot of those targets the public saw on TV was laser designated from the ground.
~~~~
Shade
  ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:39:21 -0400 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: White Triangle This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFA733.D2D7FAE6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Could they be working on arctic camoflage? - -----Original Message----- From: Xelex@aol.com [mailto:Xelex@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:33 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: White Triangle Today, (14 April 2000) I watched an F-117A make several low passes and a landing at Palmdale. It appeared to be painted overall gloss white, top and bottom. Peter Merlin - ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFA733.D2D7FAE6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" RE: White Triangle

Could they be working on arctic camoflage?  <grin>


-----Original Message-----
From: Xelex@aol.com [mailto:Xelex@aol.com]
Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 9:33 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: White Triangle



Today, (14 April 2000) I watched an F-117A make several low passes and a
landing at Palmdale.  It appeared to be painted overall gloss white, top and
bottom.

Peter Merlin

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01BFA733.D2D7FAE6-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:54:52 -0400 (EDT) From: george.allegrezza@altavista.net Subject: Re: OT: engineering slang "unobtanium" My recollection of "unobtanium" is that (a) it derives from racing, not aerospace, and (b) it predates Penske's Porsche Can-Am program. As a kid, I remember the term being used in conjunction with the Gulf McLaren team, perhaps originating from the special (and exclusive) 488-inch Rat motor blocks cast with the Reynolds silicon-impregnated aluminum process (obviating the need for steel cylinder liners). It wouldn't surprise me to find the term actually originated with Chaparral Cars, which in its day was the Aurora of auto racing, including purposely obscure funding sources, a complex family tree, and secret test sites. George - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Get your free email from AltaVista at http://altavista.iname.com ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #30 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner