From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #60 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Friday, August 11 2000 Volume 09 : Number 060 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Concorde Question.... FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of Fame" at half price (800-359-3003) Re: Concorde Question.... Re: Concorde Question.... No Subject Sage Mesa Publications Re: Sage Mesa Publications Re: AIM-9 / F-22 Question Re: FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of Fame" at half price (800-359-3003) Re: Concorde Question.... Re: FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings [...] Brighter than the Baghdad Sun FWD (TLC-Mission) SAC and SR-71s [new subject] Re: FWD (TLC-Mission) SAC and SR-71s [new subject] *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 14:44:19 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: Concorde Question.... My question is this: Repeated news reports talk about the Concorde having difficulties with tires exploding on landing gear. Military aircraft, the SR-71 in particular are considerably smaller than the Concorde but travel in similar regimes. So why would the Concorde have tire difficulty and you never hear about tire problems on other supersonic aircraft. Yes, they are smaller but you get the idea. Since the Concorde is a civilian airliner perhaps it's more noted. Most military craft don't report to the media that there were issues. The news this morning discussed a "cow catcher" on the landing gear coming loose, puncturing the fuel tank thus causing a leak and thus the fire.. Big ouch but it also appears that the British saw an issue with this and devices a leash to keep the catcher affixed to the landing gear in the event it did come loose, a novel idea but one the french evidently didn't adopt. I read Dan Zinngrabe's excellent article on Brilliant Buzzard on his old website and it talked about very large aircraft having landing gear requirements where manufacturers didn't want to have to re-invent the wheel if they didn't have to, thus re-using landing gear designs for other aircraft. I'm curious if indeed the Concorde used an existing design or if it was unique to that aircraft. Might be an interesting read even though it's off-topic. Thoughts? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:16:43 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of Fame" at half price (800-359-3003) Apparently both Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of Fam= e" are going out of business and are being sold at half price. Vol 6 below is o= n the Air Commandos; very good with great shots and patches of a number of AC u= nits. It also has an excellent history on the B-17. I ordered a number of the books-they come in soft($7.95)and hard cover($9.95). They are great book= s real bargains. Bought several at the $20.00 price and these are a better deal. If you want to investigate this deal call 800-359-3003 or < http://www.airpower.co.uk >. Gene Rossel Volume-by-volume guide to all issues of Wings of Fame. A more detailed description plus sample pages can be found at the pages f= or each volume.=20 Volume 1: Fighter Combat Over Korea, Northrop YF-17, RAF No.56 Sqn, US P-= 51 Mustang (Feature Aircraft), US Navy F-4s in Vietnam, Tupolev Tu-98, McDon= nell F-101 Voodoo Variants, Fleet Air Arm 1960-1969=20 Volume 2: Fighter Combat Over Korea, Northrop Flying Wings, Lockheed F-10= 4 Starfighter (Feature Aircraft), VF-31 'Tomcatters', Sud-Est Baroudeur, Ha= wker Hurricane Variants, Royal Canadian Air Force 1950-1959 Volume 3: 'Huns' over Vietnam, Republic XF-12 Rainbow, Avro Vulcan (Featu= re Aircraft), Fighter Combat over Korea, Focke-Wulf Fw 187, North American B= - -25 Mitchell Variants, Royal Canadian Air Force 1950-1959 Volume 4: RAF Coastal Command Strike, 94th FS, Messerschmitt Bf 109 (Feat= ure Aircraft), Fighter Combat over Korea, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Variants (Part = One), Commonwealth CA-15, BAC TSR.2, USAFE 1970-79 Volume 5: Skoshi Tiger, Scientific exploration in Antarctica, Vought F-8 Crusader (Feature Aircraft), Spitfire Spyplanes, German VTOL aircraft, FMA I.Ae.30 =D1amcu, Douglas A-4 Skyhawk Variants (Part Two), RAF 1920-29 Volume 6: Mirage and Dagger in the Falklands, Saab J 21, Boeing B-17 Flyi= ng Fortress (Feature Aircraft), Vietnam Air Commandos, RAF No. 617 Sqn, Nort= hrop F-89 Scorpion Variants, Welkin and Type 432 Volume 7: Eastern Front Schlactflieger, McDonnell XF-85 Goblin, English E= lectric Lightning (Feature Aircraft), 509th Bomb Group, Martin flying-boats Varia= nts, Sukhoi T-4, Israel 1950-59 Volume 8: US Navy's 'Blue Angels', Super Etendards in the Falklands, Lock= heed A-12/YF-12/SR-71 (Feature Aircraft), Boeing F8B, MiG-17 over Vietnam, Han= dley Page Halifax Variants, Fleet Air Arm 1950-59 Volume 9: US Vounteer fighters in China, Vought XF8U-3 Crusader III, Supe= rmarine Spitfire (Part One) (Feature Aircraft), A-3 Skywarrior 'Heavy Two', P-70 = in the Pacific, Mikoyan MiG-19 Variants, Martin-Baker Fighters Volume 10: Air War over the Desert; Sud-Ouest Trident; North American F-8= 6 Sabre (Feature Aircraft); Vietnam FACs; Bell P-39/63 Variants; P-39 in the USSR= ; Supermarine Seagull Volume 11: North American F-86 Sabre in Korea; Supporting the USAF front = line; Fairey Deltas; Messerschmitt Bf 109 - the later variants (Feature Aircraf= t); MiG-19 in Vietnam; Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star Variants; MiG Ye-150/Ye-15= 2; No. II (AC) Squadron, RAF Volume 12: Argentine A-4 in the Falklands; Heinkel He 119; Convair F-106 = Delta Dart (Feature Aircraft); No. 10 Sqn 'Winged Daggers', Indian Air Force; F= airey Firefly Variants; Finland 1940-49=20 Volume 13: Hawker P#.1127/Kestrel; No. 105 Squadron, IDF/AF; Grumman TBF/= TBM Avenger (Feature Aircraft); Bulgarian Air Force 1940-49; B-26 Invader in = Korea; Lockheed F-94 Variants; US Air Force Search and Rescue pt 1 Volume 14: Martin XB-51; USAF Search and Rescue pt 2; Blackburn Buccaneer (Feature Aircraft); Luftwaffe Nachtflieger pt 1; Gloster Meteor Variants = pt 1; Lockheed AH-56 Cheyenne=20 Volume 15: RAF Phantoms; No. 322 Squadron Royal Netherlands Air Force; No= rthrop P-61 Black Widow (Feature Aircraft); Luftwaffe Nachtflieger pt 2; Gloster= Meteor Variants pt 2; Soviet Mixed-Power Fighters=20 Volume 16:Convair XFY-1 & Lockheed XFV-1; B-29 Superfortress in Korea; Supermarine Spitfire Part 2 (Feature Aircraft); 1st Brazilian Fighter Gro= up; T-33/T2V Shooting Star Variants; RAF Fighter: 1930 - 1939; No.101 Sqn IDF= /AF in the Six Day War; Luftwaffe Markings Part 1=20 Volume 17:Blackburn Firebrand; No.101 Squadron IDF/AF in the Six Day War = Part 2; Aichi M6A1 Seiran; Convair F-102 Delta Dagger; Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk; Polikarpov Biplane Fighter Variants; Built in buffalo (Curtiss aircraft p= hoto feature); Canberras of the Fuerza A=E9rea Argentina; Luftwaffe Marking Pa= rt 2.=20 Volume 18:Convair R3Y Tradewind; F-105 in Southeast Asia; de Havilland DH= .98 Mosquito Part 1 (Feature Aircraft); Bristol Type 188; Avro Canada CF-100 Variants; Air war over Malta 1940-43; Luftwaffe Markings Part 3. - --=20 Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:04:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Kaltsidis Subject: Re: Concorde Question.... > My question is this: > > Repeated news reports talk about the Concorde having difficulties > with tires exploding on landing gear. > > Military aircraft, the SR-71 in particular are considerably smaller > than the Concorde but travel in similar regimes. > You cannot compare military and civilian aircraft like that. As I understand it, the Concorde's flaw has to do with the placement of the landing gear in front of the engines. In the event a tire explodes, debris from the explosion will end up puncturing the skin and or being ingested by the engines, causing FOD (foreign object damage) and possibly disabling one or more engines, which is what apparently happened in this case. In the SR-71's case the engine intakes are far away from the landing gear and the gear is aft of the engines anyway (the engines are rooted in the wings). In most military aircraft the landing gear is well aft of the engine intakes or is placed far enough to the port or starboard of the intakes so that it does not pose a risk to the engines or any critical parts of the airframe. > So why would the Concorde have tire difficulty and you never hear > about tire problems on other supersonic aircraft. Yes, they are > smaller but you get the idea. Since the Concorde is a civilian > airliner perhaps it's more noted. Most military craft don't > report to the media that there were issues. > > The news this morning discussed a "cow catcher" on the landing > gear coming loose, puncturing the fuel tank thus causing a leak > and thus the fire.. Big ouch but it also appears that the British > saw an issue with this and devices a leash to keep the catcher > affixed to the landing gear in the event it did come loose, a novel > idea but one the french evidently didn't adopt. Yes, it is quite possible. > I read Dan Zinngrabe's excellent article on Brilliant Buzzard on > his old website and it talked about very large aircraft having > landing gear requirements where manufacturers didn't want to have > to re-invent the wheel if they didn't have to, thus re-using > landing gear designs for other aircraft. It is common practice to re-use existing landing gear assemblies on new designs. However this does not necessarily impact the placement of those assemblies on the airframe (placement is usually impacted by other factors such as load-factors and balance and center of gravity issues). > I'm curious if indeed the Concorde used an existing design or > if it was unique to that aircraft. Might be an interesting read > even though it's off-topic. I don't know if they used an existing design or whether they designed one from scratch, although I suspect they may have done so, since the Concorde "probably" had rather unique requirements. > Thoughts? Sam CIO - Dark Entertainment LLC http://www.darkent.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:45:32 -0500 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: Concorde Question.... Sam Kaltsidis wrote: > > > My question is this: > > > > Repeated news reports talk about the Concorde having difficulties > > with tires exploding on landing gear. > > > > Military aircraft, the SR-71 in particular are considerably smaller > > than the Concorde but travel in similar regimes. > > > > You cannot compare military and civilian aircraft like that. > As I understand it, the Concorde's flaw has to do with the placement of the > landing gear in front of the engines. In the event a tire explodes, debris from > the explosion will end up puncturing the skin and or being ingested by the > engines, causing FOD (foreign object damage) and possibly disabling one or more > engines, which is what apparently happened in this case. I couldn't tell from the video or front shot with at least 1 engine on fire where the main landing gear was in relation to the nacelle's inlets. It did seem like they "about even" with each other so if an engine blew some pieces out some might hit the tires. I believe it is more likely that tire blowouts would have an unfortunately good chance of being ingested by the innermost engine or both. Also I didn't know that the Concorde takes off at 250mph!!! That's pretty damn fast! I believe the SR-71's usually rotated near 150 mph and got airborne before reaching 200 mph. It's tires are pretty tough but someone mentioned that new tires are put on after 10 flights...or sooner if major wear "flat spots" are discovered. I have read that if one SR-71 main tires fails, the other 2 will fail also because the loads are too high for just 2 tires. And usually the plane just grinds down the wheels and starts on the struts next!! I believe these tires, which are very expensive, are rated for a maximum of 249 mph. > > In the SR-71's case the engine intakes are far away from the landing gear and > the gear is aft of the engines anyway (the engines are rooted in the wings). > > In most military aircraft the landing gear is well aft of the engine intakes or > is placed far enough to the port or starboard of the intakes so that it does not > pose a risk to the engines or any critical parts of the airframe. > > > So why would the Concorde have tire difficulty and you never hear > > about tire problems on other supersonic aircraft. Yes, they are > > smaller but you get the idea. Since the Concorde is a civilian > > airliner perhaps it's more noted. Most military craft don't > > report to the media that there were issues. Perhaps not or maybe only in local newspapers. I get most of my info from various books and info that is posted here. I don't remember reading much about tire failure on the Concordes before the recent crash but I recall tv reports and articles about a Concorde that lost a major portion of the tailfin/rudder. I thought that was attributed to the crew trying to set a speed record.. > > ...snip... > > > > I'm curious if indeed the Concorde used an existing design or > > if it was unique to that aircraft. Might be an interesting read > > even though it's off-topic. > > I don't know if they used an existing design or whether they designed one from > scratch, although I suspect they may have done so, since the Concorde "probably" > had rather unique requirements. > > > > Thoughts? > > Sam > > CIO - Dark Entertainment LLC > http://www.darkent.com It wouldn't surprise me if the landing gear was designed from scratch. Hopefully they didn't use the B-58's gear design as a model. I think there were several failures of its landing gear during its rather brief lifetime. One of the family of Blackbird aircraft had wheels made of magnesium. Lighter than the ones made from other materials but once one catches fire, it has caused some Blackbirds to be written off because the fire is very intense and other parts of the plane catch fire. I assume that includes the fuel which is ignited initially with a special chemical (TEB). Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:40:39 EDT From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: No Subject Hey troops, Can any of you help me track down the publisher and mailing address/e-mail address of the following: TITLE - Blackbird Rising: Birth of an Aviation Legend PUBLISHER: Sage Mesa, 2000 ISBN - 0-9673327-0-2 Would greatly appreciate it. All the best, Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:58:59 +0200 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Sage Mesa Publications JNiessen@aol.com wrote: > > Hey troops, > > Can any of you help me track down the publisher and mailing address/e-mail > address of the following: > > TITLE - Blackbird Rising: Birth of an Aviation Legend > > PUBLISHER: Sage Mesa, 2000 > > ISBN - 0-9673327-0-2 > > Would greatly appreciate it. > > All the best, Jay Miller Hi, Jay! this was an easy one ;-) _unless_ their web site ("http://www.sagemesa.com") is lying: Sage Mesa Publications PO Box 2397 Los Lunas, New Mexico 87031 email: sagemesa@swcp.com Best regards Andreas Parsch Munich, Germany ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 13:25:30 EDT From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: Re: Sage Mesa Publications Andreas, Many thanks for the help on that! I'll relay the information on to the folks who were looking for it. If ever I can be of help to you, please let me know. All the best, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Aug 100 20:23:34 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: AIM-9 / F-22 Question On 8/1/00 8:09AM, in message <3986E821.73232CA0@primus.ca>, "T.Toth" wrote: > The fact that they purposefully neglect close-in fighting, is interesting, > the UK > Eurofighter team seem to have come to the same conclusion (removal of gun on > UK > Typhoon's to save on weight and costs). The British came to that conclusion by looking at air combat from Vietnam on. Basically, even close-in teh gun is just not that good an air-to-air weapon. It's hard to justify all the costs associated with it by its results. It's alnost like it's still in there for CYA on the designers'/specifier' part rather than for cost benefit. Typhoon, by the way, is a super-agile fighter. (Russians can > make good aerodynamic designs) or do they think that history will repeat > itself (no > guns on early F-4s)... It's worthy of note that the Navy never put a gun in the F-4. The F-4J was contemporus with the F-4E, but the Navy chose not to put in a gun but to have a larger radar dish and invest the weight and cost in fire control and a dedicated WSO. Teh F-4J did better air-to-air against teh same opponent than did the gun-carrying F-4E. > > So If the US plans not to use these misiles, what else can they put in tose > bays > that would prove more usefull... It's not that the US doesn't plan to use these missiles. It's that USAF doesn't like IR, dedicated close-in missiles (they're talking up a follow-on missile that would combine the AIM-120 and AIM-9X roles, which naturally they would develop) or using a weapon system that they didn't design and control. > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 05:01:19 -0400 From: Jerry Ennis Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of Fame" at half price (800-359-3003) On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:16:43 -0700, Gene Rossel wrote: >Apparently both Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of = Fame" are >going out of business and are being sold at half price. Vol 6 below is = on the >Air Commandos; very good with great shots and patches of a number of AC = units. >It also has an excellent history on the B-17. I ordered a number of the >books-they come in soft($7.95)and hard cover($9.95). They are great = books real >bargains. Bought several at the $20.00 price and these are a better = deal. >If you want to investigate this deal call 800-359-3003 >or < http://www.airpower.co.uk >. > >Gene Rossel > The web site lists back issues at $16 each (soft). Are you sure about the lower prices? ***************************************************** From: Jerry Ennis (jde1@att.net) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 100 04:05:24 GMT From: betnal@ns.net Subject: Re: Concorde Question.... It's also worthy of note that the Concordes have a shield on the gear that is used to keep spray from being ingested. The British experienced a problem with the original design shredding and flying up and impacting the fuel tanks and other areas. They modified all of their Concordes and the problem has not reoccurred. Although they had the same data, the French chose not to perform the modification on their Concordes. Parts of the shield, as well as tires were found on the runway... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 23:06:54 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings [...] FOR Jerry Ennis et al Terry - ----- Did you call the 800 number? I have got a number of books at the 60% off since they are going out of business. If you are having a problem with the 800 number let me know and I will call my contact. Gene Rossel At 01:47 PM 8/7/2000 -0700, Terry W. Colvin wrote: >On Fri, 04 Aug 2000 07:16:43 -0700, Gene Rossel wrote: > >Apparently both Wings of Fame "World Air Power Journal" and "Wings of > Fame" are > >going out of business and are being sold at half price. Vol 6 below is > on the > >Air Commandos; very good with great shots and patches of a number of AC > units. > >It also has an excellent history on the B-17. I ordered a number of the > >books-they come in soft($7.95)and hard cover($9.95). They are great > books real > >bargains. Bought several at the $20.00 price and these are a better deal. > >If you want to investigate this deal call 800-359-3003 > >or < http://www.airpower.co.uk >. > > > >Gene Rossel > > >The web site lists back issues at $16 each (soft). Are you sure about >the lower prices? > > >***************************************************** > > From: Jerry Ennis [Skunk-Works list] - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 15:23:57 -0400 From: Jim Rotramel Subject: Brighter than the Baghdad Sun On Art's (I think) suggestion, I obtained a copy of "Brighter than the Baghdad Sun". VERY interesting and quick read. It ties together the loose ends of the whole sorry Iraqi affair in a way that is about as scary as something Stephen King would write. After reading the first chapter or so, you'll think it was written by a bunch of ultra right wing Clinton haters. But, the authors are actually a couple of British-based journalists and by the time they're done pretty much all the sacred cows from both political parties have been (deservedly) slaughtered. Some have complained about the lack of cited sources and to a certain extent I think that's a valid criticism. I can understand why the identity of their Iraqi sources have to be kept secret (as will you, once you've read the book), but reports about events in the West should have been cited. I can't vouch for the authenticity of most of what is written in the book, but tend to judge such efforts on the basis of the parts that I do have some expertise in. In that regard, they get a mixed review: On page 218 they talk about Tornados finding a caravan of several motor homes in the desert (Saddam is known to travel in Winnabagos) and being told by the US not to destroy them, but let the Navy do it. By the time the Navy arrived, the campers had scattered. I hadn't heard that story, but they didn't include a couple of stories I had heard. 1) An F-16 had stumbled across a convoy later determined to have contained Saddam, used one bomb to take out the lead vehicle and another to take out tail-end Charlie. Being an F-16, he was then out of bombs and Saddam escaped. 2) Smallwood's book on F-15Es in the Gulf War described a couple of Beagles being sent after a Winnabago and finding a smoking hole because my beloved Varks got there first. One clear error was on page 224 when they talk about F-14s dropping bombs during Desert Storm. They didn't get that capability until the mid-1990s and are now the platform of choice for dropping LGBs. I suspect the authors were talking about an F-111F strike, but its impossible to confirm because no dates are given. On pages 227/8, they erred again. First in describing the flight from Taif (in southern Saudi Arabia) to Taij (near Baghdad) as 'short' (if memory serves, that's about as far as Dallas to Chicago). Then They report that both of the GBU-28s dropped by F-111Fs hit their target. Actually, the first one missed, but the WSO realized his mistake immediately and radioed the WSO in the second aircraft instructions about where to direct his bomb, which took out the bunker. They report that the war was extended 48 hours to await the arrival of the GBU-28s in an attempt to kill Saddam. I hadn't heard that and kind of doubt it, but have no proof one way or the other. Anyway, the book is a whale of a good read and probably closer to the truth than fiction. Highly recommended (but keeping in mind the lack of sources). As an interesting aside (and not covered in the book that stops at the end of 1999), there have been recent reports that Saddam is seriously ill, perhaps with cancer. Also, we haven't dropped a bomb since the 14th of June in northern Iraq and the 22nd of July in the south. One has to wonder if Saddam is to sick to care about pulling the tiger's tail, or if Clinton doesn't want to risk having someone shot down so close to the election... Sorry for the long post. Jim Rotramel ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 19:27:51 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (TLC-Mission) SAC and SR-71s [new subject] SAC - Strategic Air Command SR-71s SAC Recon along with U-2,DC-130,CH-53. SR-71s based out of Beale AFB with U-2 and DC-130s at DMAFB. After I retired all SAC Recon from 100th STRAT RECON WING at DMAFB moved to Beale where they still are. Now operating out of K-55 Korea, Thailand, England and various other DETS. 1st U-2R recieved at DMAFBin late 69,tail #339. Now working on U-2S and U-2U models with bigger engine. For a short while all U-2R models were called TR-1 and then nomenclature changed back to U-2R or S depending on installed engine. Funny looking pods under wings on U-2R, TR-1 were electronic add ons to the Q bay and depending on mission were interchangeable. U-2 line restarted at Skunk Works with an added number of acft to be BUILT apx 25. 339 was loaned to the NAVY for a short time frame for a while and the NAVY hung a hook on it and used it for carrier landings (SAC had already done it).The only thing the NAVY proved was you can really screw up a good radar reflective paint job by loaning it to to somebody that does not know (or care) what an exposed seam or rivit head will do for a pilots chance of coming back. According to AF (hah) the SR-71 was retired exept for 4 which are on retating states of being ready to fly. 2 are kept in running status while the other 2 are put to sleep. This is for supposedly 60-90 day periods of time. NASA is believed to be flying some and is said to be (or already have done) installing different engines in them. This may or may not have some tie in with an A/C (which may or may not exist)called AURORA. Supposedly a mach 6+ A/C. If you ever see a contrail that looks like it is blowing smoke rings it may (or may not) be an A/C of this caliber. David ANYTIME-ANYPLACE >SAC Museum >Was the SR 71 a SAC bird? JRE > >p.s. The 30 year old guide told the crowd that the SR flew at "800,000 ft". >Must have needed a long lens, eh? - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 06:35:17 -0700 From: "JPrice" Subject: Re: FWD (TLC-Mission) SAC and SR-71s [new subject] UFO stuff is bad enough on this list, but this post is ludicrous. Not anywhere near being current, and a lot of the 'information' is just plain wrong. There now, I feel better. Jon Price (PJ) *To reply via e-mail, please remove the "NOSPAM" from the return address. - -- The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, the one that never deserts him, the one that never proves ungrateful or treacherous, is his dog. He will kiss the hand that has no food to offer; He will lick the wounds and sores that come in encounter with the roughness of the world.....When all other friends desert, he remains.- George G. Vest - ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry W. Colvin To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 19:27 Subject: FWD (TLC-Mission) SAC and SR-71s [new subject] - ------------------------------------SNIP------------------------------------ - ------- > SAC - Strategic Air Command > >p.s. The 30 year old guide told the crowd that the SR flew at "800,000 ft". > >Must have needed a long lens, eh? > > -- > Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > > ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #60 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". 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