Yahoo! News - Associated Press Photo

From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #69 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Friday, September 8 2000 Volume 09 : Number 069 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Fwd: Yahoo! News Story - Associated Press Photo Insignia, Other Stuff F-17 Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #68 Re: OFF-TOPIC(?): RM-82/84/85/86 Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #68 Re: Insignia, Other Stuff Re: Panther Piss Airliner, stealth fighter near miss? F-117 Near Miss Article on CNN.COM RE: F-117 Near Miss Article on CNN.COM F-117 book recommendations Fwd: "high flight" bad jokes Re: Fwd: "high flight" RE: F-117 Near Miss *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 15:24:09 GMT From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Fwd: Yahoo! News Story - Associated Press Photo This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_13fb_37dd_3fbc Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed photo of the C-130 crash in france. wayne - ----Original Message Follows---- From: Yahoo! News Reply-To: wbinkley@hotmail.com Subject: Yahoo! News Story - Associated Press Photo _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------=_NextPart_000_13fb_37dd_3fbc Content-Type: message/rfc822 >From p5.news@yahoo.com Thu Sep 07 08:13:41 2000 Received: from [204.71.188.77] by hotmail.com (3.2) with ESMTP id MHotMailBB80FA8D0022D82197B1CC47BC4D0E8F3; Thu Sep 07 08:09:08 2000 From: Yahoo! News To: wbinkley@hotmail.com Cc: Reply-to: wbinkley@hotmail.com Subject: Yahoo! News Story - Associated Press Photo Return-path: refertofriend-error@reply.yahoo.com Errors-To: refertofriend-error@reply.yahoo.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html wayne (wbinkley@hotmail.com) has sent you a news article

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- ------=_NextPart_000_13fb_37dd_3fbc-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 12:24:09 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: Insignia, Other Stuff When aircraft are being tested, oh, say black aircraft in general - is it common or not common for aircraft to display insignia of any kind? Or is that sort of thing only affixed to operational a/c? On some of the model kit A-12/SR-71's I built as a kid they always had the small grayish insignia that barely showed up against the black of the skin. My curiousity stems from being told about an a/c sighting where there was some sort of squadron insignia clearly visible on the bottom of aircraft. Very peculiar. My other question: Steve Douglass used to have the project black website on the internet and it appears to have vanished - did it move? And: Dan- loved the story about the Special Platform. Are you going to unveil the new Black Dawn anytime soon? - -Todd ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 21:21:13 -0400 From: "Frank Markus" Subject: F-17 I found the following at http://news.excite.com/news/r/000907/19/airlines-united: [PARA]United jet, Air Force jet nearly collided over Calif [PARA] [PARA]Updated 7:20 PM ET September 7, 2000 WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The pilot of a United Airlines Boeing 757 en route from Los Angeles to Boston reported a "close call" with a military aircraft in the Los Angeles area Thursday morning, federal aviation and airline officials said. [PARA]Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) spokesman Eliot Brenner said the pilot of United Flight 174 climbed to avoid a collision with what he identified as a F-17 fighter jet after receiving an internal alarm. [PARA]He continued on to his destination and then filed a report about the incident upon his arrival, Brenner said. The incident happened at 8:43 a.m. PDT (11.43 EDT). A United spokeswoman said the flight arrived in Boston at 4:36 p.m. EDT . [PARA]The FAA and United have each launched an investigation. Pentagon officials had no immediate comment on the incident. [PARA]"At 8:43 a.m. Pacific time, United Flight 174, a Boeing 757 coming out of Los Angeles, reported that the aircraft had a close call with an unidentified aircraft that the pilot reported to us as a stealth fighter," Brenner said. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 19:19:00 -0700 From: Lee Markland Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #68 At 10:20 AM 9/7/00 -0500, you wrote: >Con/Chem-Trails, & 'going stealthy'. >Re: Duxford >RE: Duxford >Re: FWD (SK) More Kursk conspiracy >RE: FWD (SK) More Kursk conspiracy >RE: Duxford >Re: Tailgate Party in Rachel, NV(10-28-00) >Re: Clearances, compartments, etc. >Re: Clearances, compartments, etc. >Re: FWD (SK) More Kursk conspiracy >OFF-TOPIC(?): RM-82/84/85/86 >FWD (EXT/UASR) Re: Anti Zeppelin systems & Flying triangles in the sky >Re: Panther Piss >News on the F-22 program >Yahoo! News Story - Two Die in France Plane Crash >*************************************************** > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 18:57:20 EDT >From: SecretJet@aol.com >Subject: Con/Chem-Trails, & 'going stealthy'. > >In a message dated 9/1/00 1:28:46 AM GMT Daylight Time, >owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com writes: > ><< >I take the expression "turned on the stealth" to mean that the lights were > >killed, radar reflecting protuberances removed and the anti-contrail fuel > >additive turned on. > > > Anyone care to comment on this "anti-contrail" fuel additive? >> > >Oh-oh, I feel the 'Chem-Trailers' closing in! > >(& Regarding the Brits "going stealthy", I think it also >refers to radio/comms security, as well as 'external' items). I don't know about that, but the F117 must be the most agile, or lucky aircraft in the world. Imagine walking through a rainshower and not getting wet. The F117 flew through, without nary a scratch, the most intense ack ack every experienced, worse even than that experienced by allied bombers over Germany. As one pilot put it it was like flying through a fireworks display. And nary a scratch. I would like to sit behind this guys while they gamble at Vegas :0 I guess radar invisibility and a triangular shape also protects against ack ack. Impressive. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:59:40 -0700 From: Joy Richards Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC(?): RM-82/84/85/86 >Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 22:16:18 +0200 >From: Andreas Parsch >Subject: OFF-TOPIC(?): RM-82/84/85/86 > >Hello all, > >in the late 50's/early 60's, the USAF used research missiles, designated >XRM-82, XRM-84, XRM-85 and XRM-86, respectively. Does anyone know any >details (manufacturer, names, specifications, etc.) about these >vehicles? >Any information is much appreciated :-)! > >.. and maybe one of the missile was from LMSC - then my question would >at least be not _completely_ off topic ;-) For XRM-85 I found: http://go18.163.com/~wc8888/mil_std/research.htm and http://go18.163.com/~wc8888/mil_std/vehicle.htm There's an interesting site with an alphabetical list... though you'll have to search each one individually at: http://www.spaceline.org/rocketsum.html The most likely expert who would know, IMHO, would be Peter Alway. http://personal.physics.lsa.umich.edu/alway/space_rocket.htm Cheers, Joy Richards Walnut Creek, CA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 07:38:58 +0100 From: "David" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #68 Lee Markland writes: > I don't know about that, but the F117 must be the most agile, or lucky > aircraft in the world. Imagine > walking through a rainshower and not getting wet. The F117 flew through, > without nary a scratch, > the most intense ack ack every experienced, worse even than that > experienced by allied bombers > over Germany. As one pilot put it it was like flying through a fireworks > display. > > And nary a scratch. I would like to sit behind this guys while they gamble > at Vegas :0 > > I guess radar invisibility and a triangular shape also protects against ack > ack. > > Impressive. Sarcasm duly noted :) However, on a specialist list like this, do I really need to point that a Low Observable (LO) aircraft is NOT invisible to radar - it has a >low< RCS (Radar Cross Section.) As radar operates across many frequencies, no a/c or structure can be LO at all radar frequencies. It doesn't end there. How effective it is likely to be also depends on a significant reduction of its signature or footprint in the IR (Infra-Red), acoustic and visible light spectra. You're right of course, the F-117 is an impressive piece of engineering - just have a talk with an scientist or engineer familiar with the practicalities of LO design and I guarantee you'll need to lie down in a darkened room for a while. It's a hideously complex subject, which the media hasn't always dealt with particularly well. That in turn has helped to generate unrealistic expectations in the minds of an increasingly scientifically illiterate public. Best David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 10:24:44 +0200 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Re: Insignia, Other Stuff Todd Madson wrote: > > When aircraft are being tested, oh, say black aircraft in general - > is it common or not common for aircraft to display insignia of any > kind? Or is that sort of thing only affixed to operational a/c? "Black" test aircraft (e.g. HAVE BLUE, TACIT BLUE and prototypes of U-2 and A-12) usually carry no markings like national insignia, squadron codes, serial numbers, etc. Of course, I do know nothing about _current_ black prototypes ;-)! > > On some of the model kit A-12/SR-71's I built as a kid they always > had the small grayish insignia that barely showed up against the > black of the skin. AFAIK the A-12s/SR-71s carried either no insignia, or the standard "high-visibility" one. Maybe the SR-71s used gray "low-viz" insignias late in their career, but I haven't seen a picture showing this. > > My curiousity stems from being told about an a/c sighting where there > was some sort of squadron insignia clearly visible on the bottom of > aircraft. Very peculiar. _Very_ Peculiar indeed, if it were a "black" a/c. Even on "high-viz" aircraft, squadron insignias are very rarely applied to the a/c bottom (probably only for "special events"). > > My other question: Steve Douglass used to have the project black > website on the internet and it appears to have vanished - did it > move? The following URL works as I write this: "http://204.253.66.220/projectblack/" However, the numerical server address may indicate a temporary URL. So long Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 07:54:33 EDT From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: Re: Panther Piss Found that article I mentioned. To quote (some of it): "Scientists have found rising concentrations of a newly identified gas in the air that traps heat more effectively than all known greenhouse gases, the dozens of compounds that act like a greenhouse roof and may be warming the global climate. "The synthetic gas is extremely rare, so far reaching concentrations of just over one-tenth of one part per trilliion of air, according to a paper published yesterday in the journal, "Science". "But it still poses potential problems, the paper's authors say, because the concentrations of the gas are rising quickly, it probably takes more than 1,000 years to break down, and its source--although certainly from human activity--is a mystery." The gas is called trifluoromethyl sulfur pentafluoride (SF5 CF3). Be curious if anyone with a stronger chemistry background than mine can relate this in any way to use of acids in reducing vapor trail formation. Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:15:01 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: Airliner, stealth fighter near miss? This was published in today's paper (reprinted w/o permission): So, is this hype? How close was the jet? It's unclear from the article whether it was two miles away or 2000 feet. - -- This article was copyrighted by Nando Media and AP Online. CHICAGO (9/7/2000, 7:29 p.m. CDT) - An F-117 stealth fighter brushed so close to a United Airlines jet that it set off the passenger plane's on-board radar Thursday, the airline and the military said. The incident occurred shortly after United flight 174 left Los Angeles International Airport for Boston about 8:30 a.m., said Chris Nardella, a spokeswoman for United, which is based in the Chicago suburb of Elk Grove Village. The Boeing 757 was flying at about 10,800 feet when its on-board radar equipment detected an approaching aircraft. Nardella said the crew kept the plane at that altitude until the Air Force jet passed overhead. An Air Force spokeswoman, Maj. Cheryl Law, said she did not know how close the stealth jet and the United plane came to each other. The stealth jet, which is able to evade radar, was broadcasting its position publicly when the near-miss occurred. Nardella said United officials reported the incident to the Federal Aviation Administration. The F-117 is based at Edwards Air Force Base in California. The United flight carried 166 passengers and seven crew. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 09:29:17 -0500 (CDT) From: Todd Madson Subject: F-117 Near Miss Article on CNN.COM Check out: http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/09/07/near.collision.02/index.html This gives a much better summary of the incident. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:40:52 -0700 From: Erik Hoel Subject: RE: F-117 Near Miss Article on CNN.COM Todd Madson [mailto:crash@waste.org] wrote: > Check out: > > http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/09/07/near.collision.02/index.html > > This gives a much better summary of the incident. Quoting from the bottom of the article on the CNN web page: The 410th flight test squadron reports to the 412th test wing at Edwards but flies out of Air Force Plant 42, which is in Palmdale, California. The plant is a government-owned contractor facility where the B-52 bomber was built, as well as a space shuttle. ^^^^ Erik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 08:48:25 -0700 From: Erik Hoel Subject: F-117 book recommendations David [mailto:win@dircon.co.uk] writes in part: > You're right of course, the F-117 is an impressive piece of engineering - > just have a talk with an scientist or engineer familiar with the > practicalities of LO design and I guarantee you'll need to lie down in a > darkened room for a while. > > It's a hideously complex subject, which the media hasn't always dealt with > particularly well. That in turn has helped to generate unrealistic > expectations in the minds of an increasingly scientifically illiterate > public. I have been meaning for some time to pick up a good book on the F-117 (the more technical the better); do any of you have particular recommendations - preferably for books still in print? Any opinions on "Have Blue and the F-117A: Evolution of the 'Stealth Fighter'", by David C. Aronstein and Albert C. Piccirillo? This one was mentioned by Allen Thomson about a year and a half ago. Erik ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 16:38:37 GMT From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Fwd: "high flight" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. - ------=_NextPart_000_206a_3efd_50 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. - ------=_NextPart_000_206a_3efd_50 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: from 150.208.238.12 by lw1fd.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Fri, 08 Sep 2000 15:55:24 GMT X-Originating-IP: [150.208.238.12] From: "wayne binkley" To: wbinkley@hotmail.com Subject: "high flight" Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 15:55:24 GMT Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html X-Stn-Info:

"Touch the Face of God"

HIGH FLIGHT

By John Gillespie Magee Jr.

Oh I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-slivered wings.

Sunward I have climbed and joined the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of-wheeled and Soared and swung.

High in the sunlit silence, Hov'ring there, I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up,up the long, delirious, burning blue I've topped the windswept heights with easy grace Where never lark,

or even eagle flew;

And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod the high untrespassed sanctity of space, Put out my hand, and

touched the face of God

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To all those who have flown in harm's way for us and to those who did not return home;

THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU

- ------=_NextPart_000_206a_3efd_50-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:12:59 GMT From: "wayne binkley" Subject: bad jokes these are some of the worst"flying" joked i have ever seen. wayne http://www.celebratetoday.com/airjokes.html _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 13:03:43 -0500 From: George R. Kasica Subject: Re: Fwd: "high flight" Well done Wayne! George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 513 8503 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com Waukesha, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 11:21:44 -0700 From: Tony Dinkel Subject: RE: F-117 Near Miss Interesting info on the airspace this happened in: http://e10.natca.net/raincheck.html Note the flashing "We talk to things that don't exist". td ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #69 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner