From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #88 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Tuesday, December 26 2000 Volume 09 : Number 088 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #87 Original Stealth aircraft featured RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Re: Smashing paradigms Re: Smashing paradigms RE: Original Stealth aircraft featured RE: Original Stealth aircraft featured RE: Smashing paradigms RE: Smashing paradigms RE: Smashing paradigms Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Re: Smashing paradigms AURORA WATCH: RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Re: AURORA WATCH: FWD (SK) Star Wars *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 18:32:46 -0500 From: "Jim and Jacqui Bjaloncik" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #87 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "skunk-works-digest" To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 5:45 PM Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #87 > > skunk-works-digest Thursday, December 21 2000 Volume 09 : Number 087 > > > RE: P-59, gorilla. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:31:33 -0500 > From: "Weigold, Greg" > Subject: RE: P-59, gorilla. > > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand > this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. > > - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06AD5.2EA54DDC > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > > Sounds wild enough to be true.... since pilots do stuff like that all the > time.... > > - -----Original Message----- > From: Allen Thomson [mailto:thomsona@flash.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 05:19 PM > To: Skunk Works > Subject: P-59, gorilla. > > > > Just found this on AvWeek's www.aviationnow.com page: > > Bell P-59 Secret Jet Program > > During the Bell P-59 jet aircraft test program > [early-mid 1940s, http://www.afa.org/magazine/gallery/p-59.html], > a formation of P-38 Lightnings on a training mission over the Mojave > Desert was > overtaken by an Airacomet. The P-38 pilots were puzzled when they saw the > plane > with no propeller. Stranger still, the Bell P-59 Airacomet pilot > was wearing a > gorilla mask and derby hat and had a cigar in his mouth. After a few > seconds, the > jet pilot tipped his hat politely and pulled away from the formation. > This was the > first time that Air Force personnel, except for a select few at the test > base, had > ever seen a jet-propelled airplane. The sight of the gorilla wearing a > derby and > smoking a cigar helped keep the jet a secret. > Hmmm, I'll bet the P-59 pilot turned up later as the front man for the Nairobi Trio. Ernie Kovacs lives! Warmest Regards for the Holidays, Jim ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 20:30:43 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: Original Stealth aircraft featured The Air Force museum has their aircraft of the week posted. This time its the Original Stealth aircraft. http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/santa.htm \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:55:06 -0800 (PST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > There is no way that you could associate some colorful light display in the > evening/night sky, seen from Las Vegas, Nevada, with any location what so > ever. Even if the direction would be correct, how do you determine the > distance? I am sorry, but this is all conjecture with no basis in reality. Good point Andreas! Well, I didn't know the aurora was over Area 51 when I observed the phenomenon. I just knew it was a couple of miles north of Las Vegas. And as I stated my original post, I listen to the radio and they reported the phenomenon was over Area 51. BTW, the pictures of barium clouds that John posted does not look like the aurora phenomenon that I saw :( May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@its.caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ " From knowing himself and knowing his airplane so well that he can come somewhere close to touching, in his own special and solitary way, that thing that is called perfection." Richard Bach, 'A Gift of Wings' ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:11:23 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Albert H. Dobyns wrote: > Now changing topic to a question someone asked a few months ago. > A father was helping his son build a model of the M-12 with a > D-21 included. He asked why the D-21's wings were canted > downward. I said I think it was done to improve stability sort > of like why the F-104s wings canted downward. Was my statement > accurate at all? If not I'd love to know why the D-21 wings > were canted downward. The set of the wings is called dihedral if the wingtip is higher than the wing root and anhedral if the wingtip is lower than the wing root. Anhedral will give you more lateral stability in rigid aircraft, which is why so many fighter aircraft have anhedral. The F-104 is a good example. The anhedral helps prevent weathercocking and reduces the amplitude of the Dutch roll mode. It also reduces upwash and flow blanking on the elevators/elevons. The anhedral you see in high-wing transport aircraft on the ground is there for a different reason. Wings are cantilever beams and have a certain amount of flexibility. When they start generating lift, it picks them up and the wing has neither dihedral nor anhedral (very long, very flexible wings, like those of the B-52, do end up with a little bit on dihedral). If the wing had started out level or with dihedral, they'd end up with the tips quite a bit above the fuselage and the rest of the wing. This would reduce the dynamic stability and goof up the wing loading, particularly in turbulence. Having a high wing with little or no dihedral also reduces downwash on the elevators/elevons. Another thing about anhedral on a low surface is that it has more effectiveness in ground effect. The anhedral of the F-4 elevons puts them into ground effect as soon as the hook catches, providing an up-force that causes a nose-down rotation, reducing the chance of a bolter, as well as reducing the runout and easing the load on the arresting gear. High wings with anhedral, like the F-8, also fold into a shorter package, making storage on the hangar deck easier. And last, and probably least, it's easier to hang ordnance and drop tanks on lower wings, particularly when you've got to put a missile on the wingtip rails. Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:23:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms I forgot to mention that anhedral on little planes provides lateral stability that big planes, like airliners, get from the fuselage, which is why you see more anhedral on fighters than you do on airliners, since both usually have mid or low wings. And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap the bubble of thrust in hover. Again, a ground effect thing. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:21:47 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: Original Stealth aircraft featured This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C23.3616BC6E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" I thought the MK.II model had JATO bottles...... - -----Original Message----- From: John Szalay [mailto:john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 08:31 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Original Stealth aircraft featured The Air Force museum has their aircraft of the week posted. This time its the Original Stealth aircraft. http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/santa.htm \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C23.3616BC6E Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Original Stealth aircraft featured

I thought the MK.II model had JATO = bottles......   <grin>

-----Original Message-----
From: John Szalay [mailto:john.szal= ay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 08:31 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: Original Stealth aircraft featured



The Air Force museum has their aircraft of the week = posted.
This time its the Original Stealth aircraft.

     http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/santa.htm

          &nb= sp;        \\  ~ ~  = //
          &nb= sp;         (  @ @  = )
       = - -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------
      = |        = john.szalay@att.net       |
       = - ------------------Oooo.-----------
          &nb= sp;    .oooO     (   = )
          &nb= sp;    (   )      ) = /
          &nb= sp;     \ (      = (_/
          &nb= sp;      \_)


- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C23.3616BC6E-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 09:59:50 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: RE: Original Stealth aircraft featured At 09:21 AM 12/22/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I thought the MK.II model had JATO bottles...... Oh yes, that must be the "Tim Allen" "Home Improvement" model Happy Holidays to all. \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 12:22:23 -0500 From: "Frank Markus" Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms It is wonderful to see Mary back. I have missed her. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Mary Shafer Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms I forgot to mention that anhedral on little planes provides lateral stability that big planes, like airliners, get from the fuselage, which is why you see more anhedral on fighters than you do on airliners, since both usually have mid or low wings. And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap the bubble of thrust in hover. Again, a ground effect thing. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:33:27 -0000 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms Must admit I noticed her posting and noticed the same thing. Any news from Dryden? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Frank Markus > Sent: 22 December 2000 17:22 > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms > > > It is wonderful to see Mary back. I have missed her. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On > Behalf Of Mary Shafer > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 AM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms > > I forgot to mention that anhedral on little planes provides lateral > stability that big planes, like airliners, get from the > fuselage, which > is why you see more anhedral on fighters than you do on > airliners, since > both usually have mid or low wings. > > And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap the bubble of thrust in > hover. Again, a ground effect thing. > > Mary > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that > never end...." > > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:36:23 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C4F.28DDF568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Welcome back Mary!!! - -----Original Message----- From: Gavin Payne [mailto:gbpayne@btinternet.com] Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:33 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms Must admit I noticed her posting and noticed the same thing. Any news from Dryden? > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Frank Markus > Sent: 22 December 2000 17:22 > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms > > > It is wonderful to see Mary back. I have missed her. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On > Behalf Of Mary Shafer > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 AM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms > > I forgot to mention that anhedral on little planes provides lateral > stability that big planes, like airliners, get from the > fuselage, which > is why you see more anhedral on fighters than you do on > airliners, since > both usually have mid or low wings. > > And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap the bubble of thrust in > hover. Again, a ground effect thing. > > Mary > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that > never end...." > > > - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C4F.28DDF568 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: Smashing paradigms

Welcome back Mary!!!

-----Original Message-----
From: Gavin Payne [mailto:gbpayne@btinternet.com= ]
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:33 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms


Must admit I noticed her posting and noticed the same = thing.
Any news from Dryden?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com
> [mailto:owner-skunk-works@n= etwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Frank Markus
> Sent: 22 December 2000 17:22
> To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
> Subject: RE: Smashing paradigms
>
>
> It is wonderful to see Mary back.  I have = missed her.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com
> [mailto:owner-skunk-works@n= etwrx1.com]On
> Behalf Of Mary Shafer
> Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 12:24 AM
> To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
> Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms
>
> I forgot to mention that anhedral on little = planes provides lateral
> stability that big planes, like airliners, get = from the
> fuselage, which
> is why you see more anhedral on fighters than = you do on
> airliners, since
> both usually have mid or low wings.
>
> And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap = the bubble of thrust in
> hover.  Again, a ground effect = thing.
>
> Mary
>
> Mary Shafer  DoD #0362 KotFR  = shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
> "Some days it don't come easy/And some = days it don't come hard
> Some days it don't come at all/And these are = the days that
> never end...."
>
>
>

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C06C4F.28DDF568-- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:00:05 -0700 From: Brad Hitch Subject: Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl wrote: > > > There is no way that you could associate some colorful light display in the > > evening/night sky, seen from Las Vegas, Nevada, with any location what so > > ever. Even if the direction would be correct, how do you determine the > > distance? I am sorry, but this is all conjecture with no basis in reality. > > Good point Andreas! Well, I didn't know the aurora was over Area 51 when I > observed the phenomenon. I just knew it was a couple of miles north of Las > Vegas. And as I stated my original post, I listen to the radio and they > reported the phenomenon was over Area 51. > And we all know that the media always get their stories right. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 13:32:21 -0700 From: Brad Hitch Subject: Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Wei-Jen Su wrote: > > First, thanks a lot to the list for the replay. So, right now, there are > three main theories that can explain the aurora over Area 51. > > 1) Natural weather phenomenon. Which is probable but I think is highly > unlikely since by "coincidence" is localize over Area 51. > > snip There is alot of misunderstanding about random events, with the view that coincidences are usually meaningful. If something is truly random it means you can't predict it. One of the results is that you WILL observe coincidences if something is really random. If asked to draw a random pattern of dots on a piece of paper, most people tend to try to distribute the dots evenly so that there aren't any clusters. That isn't random. A real random distribution shows lots of clusters (coincidences) at low density that doesn't fill in until you have many, many observations. This makes it very difficult sometimes to establish a causal connection. On the other hand, observing that there are no coincidences in many trials implies that a phenomena is NOT random. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 15:14:25 EST From: MELUMAN@aol.com Subject: Re: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. In a message dated 12/22/2000 12:43:04 PM Mountain Standard Time, hitch@tda.com writes: > Wei-Jen Su wrote: _________________ To find out what Wei-Jen Su saw that night, please refer to what everyone else knows (thinks) Wei-Jen Su saw. Thank goodness we have so many expert witnesses! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:25:52 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: Smashing paradigms Mary Shafer wrote: > > I forgot to mention that anhedral on little planes provides lateral > stability that big planes, like airliners, get from the fuselage, which > is why you see more anhedral on fighters than you do on airliners, since > both usually have mid or low wings. > > And the Harrier anhedral is there to help trap the bubble of thrust in > hover. Again, a ground effect thing. > > Mary > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." Mary, thanks much for the info on dihedral and anhedral. There was a time when I knew those 2 words but couldn't remember them when posting a note to the person who asked about that stuff. Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 16:12:18 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: AURORA WATCH: Space Weather News for Dec. 22, 2000 http://www.spaceweather.com AURORA WATCH: Conditions may be favorable for high-latitude auroras tonight. The interplanetary magnetic field (IMF) near Earth turned sharply southward after a solar wind disturbance arrived in the neighborhood of our planet. South-pointing IMFs make our magnetosphere more vulnerable than usual to solar wind gusts -- additional gusts could trigger Northern Lights. For more information visit http://www.spaceweather.com _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 13:29:00 -0500 From: John Szalay Subject: RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Are you sure of the Date ? Aug 12 there was wide spread activity. Does any of this appear to be what you saw.... http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast14aug_1.htm#gallery ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 15:29:31 -0800 (PST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: RE: display of aurora borealis seen as far south as Texas and Florida. Hello John! Close call! But I had checked my calendar and I am sure that on August 12th I was still on vacation in the East Coast. My calendar tells me that I was in Las Vegas between August 15th to August 17th. Thanks! May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@its.caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ " From knowing himself and knowing his airplane so well that he can come somewhere close to touching, in his own special and solitary way, that thing that is called perfection." Richard Bach, 'A Gift of Wings' On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, John Szalay wrote: > > > Are you sure of the Date ? > > > Aug 12 there was wide spread activity. Does any of this appear to be what > you > saw.... > > http://spacescience.com/headlines/y2000/ast14aug_1.htm#gallery > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 08:58:58 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: AURORA WATCH: wayne binkley wrote: > > Space Weather News for Dec. 22, 2000 > http://www.spaceweather.com > > AURORA WATCH: Conditions may be favorable for high-latitude auroras > tonight. The interplanetary magnetic field (IMF) near Earth turned > sharply southward after a solar wind disturbance arrived in the > neighborhood of our planet. South-pointing IMFs make our magnetosphere > more vulnerable than usual to solar wind gusts -- additional gusts could > trigger Northern Lights. > > For more information visit http://www.spaceweather.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Has anyone here ever seen them from the Chicago area? Maybe we aren't up north far enough. Also there are so many lights on at night that it's hard to see anything that might be dim. Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Dec 2000 20:15:23 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (SK) Star Wars We haven't discussed Star Wars, the anti-ballistic missile system, recently. Dick Armey is my congressman--meaning I live in his district and get to vote against him every two years. Last Wednesday (20 December) I sat in on the taping of two episodes of "McCuistion," on which Armey was a panelist. "McCuistion" originates here in Dallas and is syndicated on PBS. Locally the show comes on Sundays at 1 p.m. and 11 p.m. Each episode is one hour and features themes of popular interest. The two episodes taped last week concerned the ABM project and the Republican Revolution. I have previously worked in the aviation ordnance division on the USS Randolph and the USS Kitty Hawk, so I know a little about munitions. I have also worked on guided missile programs for Texas Instruments, so I know a little about the problem of hitting the target. Nearly ten years ago we all watched as Patriots battled Scuds in the skies over the Middle East. What a show! Incomming streaks of light in the sky were met with outgoing streaks of light, and when the two converged there was a spectacular aerial show. Later more rational heads informed us that not a single Scud was stopped. This makes a lot of sense, based on what I know. An incoming warhead is just a falling bomb. The Patriot missile is an anti-aircraft missile. The Patriot was designed to take out its target by exploding at or near the aircraft. The warhead (if it is like most anti-aircraft missiles) is really not the head of the missile but is a section of the missile tube. They usually put some guidance stuff in the nose. The "warhead" is a fragmentation bomb, explosive wrapped in a metal shell designed to break into chunks of the right size. The fragments tear through aircraft frames taking out control surfaces, control lines, and fuel lines and killing the crew. The aircraft, thus disabled, crashes and is unable to complete its mission. This is what the Patriot was designed to do. This why it did not work against the Scuds. To defeat an incoming Scud you can't just wreck the Scud missile. The power and control functions are already shut down, and in fact the warhead has already separated from the main missile body. The warhead is coming down. It will hit and explode if you don't explode it first. This the Patriot could not do. In order to explode the Scud warhead you need to make a direct hit on it. And maybe more. In naval warfare it is often necessary to attack armored ships. To do this the Navy uses armor piercing bombs. These bombs have heavy casings of hard metal. Only about 25% of the bomb weight is explosive. The bomb strikes the ship's armor plate with tremendous force and breaks through. A timed fuse detonates the bomb a few milliseconds after the initial impact. If the bomb goes of on impact it's mostly wasted. Therefore you need an explosive that can withstand that kind of shock without detonating. The Navy (in those days) used picric acid as the explosive in AP bombs for this reason. Likely Saddam's Scuds did not have such warheads, but it is easy to imagine how easy it would be to defeat the Patriot with a simple Patriot resistant warhead. I thought so, too, and said as much in a letter to the local newspaper back in 1994. Brings us back to Star Wars. The ABM has a similar problem. To defeat an incoming BM you have to: 1. Correctly locate the incoming warhead (out of a number of possible decoys or out of a number of duplicate warheads). 2. Make a direct hit on the warhead to detonate it (in the case of a conventional warhead) or close enough to wreck the nuclear warhead. Fat chance of actually causing the nuke to detonate. For this and other reasons many sensible heads have labeled Star Wars a boondoggle. History has shown this to be the case. Since about 1986 we have spent billions on such programs with nothing to show for our expense. Dick Armey wants us to spend billions more. Here's how he sells it: "We want our children to be safe" he says. Further, he says that he knows it can be done. How? With the modern technology we have there's no reason we can't do it. He points out that a mere child can point and click a mouse and open a Web site on the other side of the world. If we can do that, we can do Star Wars (according to Mr. Armey). During a break in the taping I had a chance to talk to some of the others in the audience. I felt like a whore in church. This was a solidly Republican herd. One person agreed with me that the most we could buy was something that stopped 90% of the incoming (very generous in my opinion). "OK, you save San Francisco, Dallas, and Des Moines, but you lose Chicago" I pointed out. "I can live with that" he agreed. "We can rebuild. This is war." I tried to reconcile such thinking with Armey's desire to "make our children safe." Much discussion was made by other panelists about the types of enemies we need to protect ourselves against. The point was well made that we are not battling an organized superpower like the former USSR. We need to protect ourselves against blackmail from "rogue" states such as North Korea and Iraq. Would these countries seriously engage the US in a "war" as my Republican acquantance implied? Would it really be worth losing Chicago just to put such a pipsqueak power in its place? Somewhere, I feel, purpose is getting lost. Check out the program if it airs in your area. We should get back to this duscussion after others have had a chance to see what Mr. Armey had to say on this occasion. Locally the two episodes will air on 14 and 21 January. Also, look for me. I'm the whitehaired guy in the very blue shirt. John Blanton - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #88 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner