From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V9 #91 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Friday, December 29 2000 Volume 09 : Number 091 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** FWD (SW) Re: Cuban Overflights in 1962 Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #90 RE: skunk-works-digest V9 #89 - wonderful to see Mary back. Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #90 Looking for Philip R. Moyer - again FWD (SW) Re: Cuban Overflights in 1962 FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways Re: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways Re: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 23:12:19 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (SW) Re: Cuban Overflights in 1962 Forwarded from the TLCB (see below) list: I was stationed at Shaw AFB, SC in 1969...Our Mission was Cuba...RF4s there 363rd TRW...F-4s did do some low level recce we had photos of missle sites from 1960 that were not all U-2, believe me...We were tgt analysis.... LarryC - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 19:17:02 +1030 From: Steve Apthorpe Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #90 > To Mary: > Don't listen to those few bone-heads on this list. > Since the SR-71 is no longer in active service, your insider information is > extremely valuable and worthwhile. > I really enjoy reading your's and others intelligent discussions on this > bird. > Don't leave us Mary on account of few proud individuals, just because you > know more, and they wish they did. > - -Martin I was going to write a similar note of support, but Martin has said it all. Any criticisms on you being 'an insider' smack of conspiracy nuts (the ilk of Mr Colvin et al.) - no wonder they are afraid of being 'shown up,' it bursts their 'faith bubble.' Here's to critical thought in a sea of fools. Steve ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 09:16:01 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: RE: skunk-works-digest V9 #89 - wonderful to see Mary back. This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C070D9.51F0B4FC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Well said George.... - -----Original Message----- From: George R. Kasica [mailto:georgek@netwrx1.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 11:48 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #89 - wonderful to see Mary back. >To Mary: >Don't listen to those few bone-heads on this list. >Since the SR-71 is no longer in active service, your insider information is >extremely valuable and worthwhile. >I really enjoy reading your's and others intelligent discussions on this >bird. >Don't leave us Mary on account of few proud individuals, just because you >know more, and they wish they did. >-Martin Martin & Mary: You said it well Martin. Mary, your knowledge and experience with the SR-71 are priceless now that they are not flying....Noone else will be gaining that experience and knowledge, which WILL be needed someday for other things I'm sure. PLEASE continue to post and be involved with this list...I for one highly value your input. {Listowner hat on} If anyone has any complaints about a user I'd suggest that they direct them to ME -- OFF-LIST and I will deal with it. That email again is georgek@netwrx1.com {Listowner hat off} Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ALL! ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 513 8503 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com Waukesha, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C070D9.51F0B4FC Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: skunk-works-digest V9 #89 - wonderful to see Mary back. =

Well said George....

-----Original Message-----
From: George R. Kasica [mailto:georgek@netwrx1.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 11:48 PM
To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com
Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #89 - wonderful = to see Mary back.


>To Mary:
>Don't listen to those few bone-heads on this = list.
>Since the SR-71 is no longer in active service, = your insider information is
>extremely valuable and worthwhile.
>I really enjoy reading your's and others = intelligent discussions on this
>bird.
>Don't leave us Mary on account of few proud = individuals, just because you
>know more, and they wish they did.
>-Martin

Martin & Mary:

You said it well Martin.

Mary, your knowledge and experience with the SR-71 = are priceless now
that they are not flying....Noone else will be = gaining that experience
and knowledge, which WILL be needed someday for = other things I'm sure.

PLEASE continue to post and be involved with this = list...I for one
highly value your input.

{Listowner hat on}
If anyone has any complaints about a user I'd = suggest that they direct
them to ME -- OFF-LIST and I will deal with it. That = email again is
georgek@netwrx1.com
{Listowner hat off}


Merry Christmas & Happy New Year to ALL!


=3D=3D=3D[George R. = Kasica]=3D=3D=3D        +1 262 513 = 8503
Skunk-Works = ListOwner           = +1 206 374 6482 FAX
http://www.netwrx1.com    &nbs= p;     Waukesha, WI USA
georgek@netwrx1.com
ICQ #12862186

Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works

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          &nb= sp; The OnLine Blackbird Museum

- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C070D9.51F0B4FC-- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 11:53:54 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V9 #90 Steve Apthorpe wrote: > > > To Mary: > > Don't listen to those few bone-heads on this list. > > Since the SR-71 is no longer in active service, your insider information is > > extremely valuable and worthwhile. > > I really enjoy reading your's and others intelligent discussions on this > > bird. > > Don't leave us Mary on account of few proud individuals, just because you > > know more, and they wish they did. > > - -Martin > > I was going to write a similar note of support, but Martin has said it > all. I value Ms Shafer's input too. > Any criticisms on you being 'an insider' smack of conspiracy nuts (the > ilk of Mr Colvin et al.) - no wonder they are afraid of being 'shown > up,' it bursts their 'faith bubble.' If you must label me then I'd like to be known as a skeptical fortean. This means I never throw an idea out entirely although some of the conspiracy "nuts" do go overboard. The following blurb is from the Fortean Times magazine web site under "About FT": Fortean Times is a monthly magazine of news, reviews and research on strange phenomena and experiences, curiosities, prodigies and portents. It was founded in 1973 to continue the work of Charles Fort. Throughout his life, Fort was skeptical about scientific explanations, observing how scientists argued according to their own beliefs rather than the rules of evidence and that inconvenient data was ignored, suppressed, discredited or explained away (which is quite different from explaining a thing). Fort, born of Dutch stock in Albany, New York, spent many years researching scientific literature in the New York Public Library and the British Museum Library. He marshaled his evidence and set forth his philosophy in The Book of the Damned (1919), New Lands (1923), Lo ! (1931), and Wild Talents (1932). N.B The books of Charles Fort are now available on this website HERE His dictum "One measures a circle beginning anywhere" expresses his philosophy of Continuity in which everything is in an intermediate state between extremes. He had ideas of the universe-as-organism and the transient nature of all apparent phenomena. He coined the term 'teleportation' and was perhaps the first to speculate that mysterious lights seen in the sky might be craft from outer space. However, he cut at the very roots of credulity: "I conceive of nothing, in religion, science or philosophy, that is more than the proper thing to wear, for a while." Terry - ----- > Here's to critical thought in a sea of fools. > > Steve - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:31:12 -0600 From: George R. Kasica Subject: Looking for Philip R. Moyer - again >>From blbates@gemini.vigyan.com Thu Dec 28 20:33:33 2000 >Received: from as116.larc.nasa.gov ([192.239.116.116] helo=gemini.vigyan.com) > by eagle.netwrx1.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) > id 14BpMK-0002by-00 > for skunk-works@netwrx1.com; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:33:32 -0600 >Received: (from blbates@localhost) > by gemini.vigyan.com (SGI-8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA64211 > for skunk-works@netwrx1.com; Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:33:25 -0500 (EST) >From: "Brent L. Bates" >Message-Id: <10012282133.ZM464153@vigyan.com> >Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:33:24 -0500 >Organization: ViGYAN, Inc. >X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.3 08feb96 MediaMail) >To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >Subject: Looking for Philip R. Moyer - again >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I don't know if this list is still up and working (it has been MANY years >since I sent anything to it or read it and I had to do a Web search to find >this address and this is the second one), but I thought I'd give it a try. > I'm looking for Philip R. Moyer. Both his snail mail and email have >changed since the last time I talked to him and he used to be in charge of this >list and at least was reading it for a while after that. If you are out there >Phil, please drop me a line. Sorry to interrupt what ever discussion was going >on. Thanks for any help. > ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 513 8503 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com Waukesha, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:22:21 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (SW) Re: Cuban Overflights in 1962 Multiple posts forwarded from the TLCB (see below) list - Terry: USAF didn't have Phantoms in their inventory during the Cuban Missile crisis..however we did have a lot of overflights by RF-101s. I can't recall where they were stationed at the time, or what unit they were from... Darrell Getchell - ---------- I believe that the "SR-71 / A12 / YF12" did not enter into USAF service until 1964-66 (somewhere in that time frame), after the missle crises. Surely, missions by the U2, SR, etc., were flown subsequently until satellite technology was available. Bzaza - ---------- Seeing the coming attractions of that movie, I've been waiting for it to air. But when it comes to Hollywood and the Air Force, many mistakes have been made. One that comes to mind, is utilizing an F4 in the Gary Powers movie (w/ Lee Majors) when he was shot down over Russia in a U2. I guess the only way of picking thru the truth, is to either have first hand knowledge, and/or doing the proper research into the matter. Bzaza - ---------- During the Cuban crises the RF-101's did the low level Photo Missions. The U-2's did the High Alt. Missions. Radar coverage was provided by two EC-121's flying out of McCoy AFB, (Gold Digger Missions). They were flown with one Acft at 100 ft and the second up at a higher altitude. The search Acft would fly with one wing high in order for the Radar Sweep to cover the U-2's at its high altitude. The second Acft was the backup bird. Gold digger lasted for many years after the crises was over. John Loftus - ---------- I may have been hasty in my answer. The air force had F-4 for test and evaluation in '62, but no reconnaissance versions. The Navy and Marines both had operational squadrons and may have had recee birds over Cuba, I've not been able to find any info on that. The following is extracted from Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas history chronology page: Oct. 12, 1961: The Navy's first F4H operational squadron, VF-74, is qualified for carrier duty. Jan. 24, 1962: The success of the Phantom in Navy service leads the Air Force to borrow 29 F4Hs from the Navy for test and evaluation under the designation F-110A Spectre. Jun. 29, 1962: First F4H Phantom IIs are delivered to a Marine Corps squadron, VMF(AW)-314. Sep. 18, 1962: With the changes in military designations, the F-110A becomes the F-4C and the Spectre name is discarded. Nov. 20, 1963: The first Air Force Phantoms, F-4Cs, are delivered to a Tactical Air Command squadron. Side Story: At Misawa AB, Japan, in late fall '63, we received word from the control tower, that a "special Marine Corps fighter" was about 30 minutes out and would put on a performance display over the base upon arrival. In a matter of minutes the flight line was full of F-100, F-101 and F-102 pilots, maintenance men and general onlookers. I must say that everyone was highly impressed with the show put on by that Marine pilot. I was standing near a "Deuce" pilot, and heard him say to his buddy, "I hope I never have to come up against that SOB." It was the first time most of us had seen a Phantom. The F-4H had been sent around to air force bases in Japan and Korea, by Fifth Air Force, to demonstrate the Phantoms capabilities. Darrell Getchell - ---------- Didn't the RF-101 come out of Shaw AFB. The RF-4 pilot who had a mishap at Udorn and the radio station got wiped out old me that he flew RF missions over Cuba during this period. Gene Rossel - ---------- Here's an interesting site concerning Recon during the Cuban Missile Crisis. < http://library.thinkquest.org/11046/recon/recon_room.html > Darrell Getchell - ---------- Darrell....Could well have been RF101 recce photos we had at shaw...U-2 photos were very good, but those low level flights gave us the oblique shots had at Shaw 8 years later. Larry - ---------- Bzaza....I was no more than a couple hundred yards, if that, from Take off...Used to watch the chase plane take off..F-5?....go downleg and then come boring in....The SR would hit the throttle, light the fires and shake the ground...(Beale jackrabbits would scatter). and be airborne and heading upwards before the chase plane cleared the end of the runway..I had completely forgotten about the El Camino chase cars....We got recce film from them at Udorn in 69..We calculated speed and altitude...over 2700mph...Chinese raised hell because it invaded Chinese air space...(800 miles) as it was turning back towards the Gulf on Tonkin....Fantastic resolution..Kodak's black ops building cranked out some killer film. These SR's were out of Okinawa..were you ever there?...Had a buddy in the program for a while...George H. Bentley, from Dallas...He was tdy at Kadena while I was at Udorn..Don't have a clue what he did on the tdy. Larry - ---------- [was Cuban Recce and RF-101 Voodoos] Hi all - Some first hand knowledge. The Photo Reconnaissance version, the RF-101C, derived from the F-101 model A&B twin engine Air Defense Command (ADC) Intercepter. Normal training speed was 420 - 480 knots in Europe at low level - 300-500 feet altitude. However being a Century Series USAF Aircraft, it had the capability of going pass the speed of sound if necessary. Emergency War Orders (EWO) did not task this aircraft at supersconic speeds into the Eastern Soviet Bloc. Basis changes from the F-101B ADC model: The intercept radar and large radome was removed and replaced with with an elongated semi-needle nose that held three aerial cameras, The Nose Oblique camera, the Right Tri-camera and the Left Tri-camera. The Vertical camera was on the botton of the fuselage, and as I remember, just behind the cockpit and forward of the Star and Bars. Of course all cameras were inside the nose or airframe for the vertical one. Camera ports were covered with heavy glass. The RF-101C had no radar, intercept/ weather or otherwise. The Nose Oblique was the fancy name for the nose camera that was angled down about 20-25 degrees. The Right and Left Tri-Cameras were again fancy names for the right and left side cameras in the nose, angles down to about 25-30 degrees. The Vertical camera speaks for itself. --I read one article saying that the RF-101 was equipted with a special K-18A strip camera. We didn't think it was "special", just an upgrade mod. The unique "dove-tail lens" did allow the camera to take continous photos, and we just called it a vertical continuous strip camera. Don't ask to explain the dove-tail lens -I can't! Most 101 cameras were made by the Fairchild Company. Mid-1965 mod to the RF-101C installed "Hard Points" on the fuselage center line allowing it to carry one external weapon. The 66th Tactical Recce Wing had the only & largest number of RF-101C's in Europe. At Laon Air Base, France, half way between Paris and Brussels, Belgium. Each squadron had 15 101s and there was the 17th, 18th and 32nd Reconnaissance Squadrons. Also there was the 38th Tac Recce Sq (belonging to us, the 66TRW at Ramnstein Air Base, Germany, and they had another 15 101's. Total: 60 RF-101s. As the recce pilots are a strange and rare breed and required extensive and continued training, the USAF kept tight reigns on these pilots. Most rotated tour after tour from Laon AB to Shaw AFB, Stateside.. Many of the Voodoo pilots who showed up in France 1965-66 were veterans of the "Cuban Missile Crisis". As the War in Southeast Asia esculated, many of these pilots were the first to fly over North Vietnam in RF-101Cs and at low level. Many were shot down KIA/MIA. Also many phased into the RF-4C Recce Program, with some assuming staff positions. I guess just about all know that the 101s were phased out as the RF-4Cs took over their missions. About two years ago I watched a TV program (maybe HIS or DISC channel) about the Cuban Crisis and I was very dismayed to see an excellent low level aerial photo of one of the Soviet missile sites. The program narator identified the photo as one taken by a U-2 "spy plane". ---Oh my God!, here a real low level photo (Right-Tri), my guess at 250-300', and one can plainly see the shadow, part of the RF-101C's nose and swept back wings. Damn people who did the documentary didn't do their homework or didn't care to. Things like that burn me up! To qualify the above story, I was NCOIC of the 32nd Squadron Intel as a TSgt - 1962, then NCOIC 66th Wing Intelligence as MSgt All for now, Ken Griswold - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:27:34 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways Star Wars had a number of methods of locating and destroying the weapon(incoming nuclear warheads). Most was theoretical but they did accomplish a few things with lasers and the basic philosophy of warheads coming in if hit with a small tin can going at thousands of miles per minute can have a devastating affect-F=MA-small mass but high acceleration. The things they fought were accessing the vehicle and then hitting it. "About 300,00 feet they say we run out of air molecules and you can't guide a missile by its normal fins-it becomes useless. Actually about 140,000 ft a standard missile, if it goes that high, no longer can be guided in a conventional way. This is why they use gas for control in the vacuum of space. A warhead is coming in about 18,000 miles per hour and when it hits about 350,000 ft it starts to decelerate and within about a minute it hits the ground at about 4,000-6,000 MPH. If you can cause that warhead to be moved by some force it won't hit its target-Russian and Chinese warheads are not as accurate as ours and the accuracy is classified. This is also the reason that you can't dump nuclear warheads in one area within a short time since a nuclear explosion will throw up debris, wind etc which would cause a warhead coming in to be destroyed(again F=MA), thrown off course or a number of things. The studies they did, the test they ran gave the US a lot of data to continue working on. There are problems to be resolved and if they aren't resolved today they will be solved by some scientist here or in an unfriendly state in the future. I think that the Star Wars efforts did a lot of good-it bankrupted the Russians and we don't have a cold war at present. There has been a lot of money spent on it but any good system has its failures before success-that is the reason for the R&D effort. Gene Rossel - -- Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@frontiernet.net > Alternate: < terry_colvin@hotmail.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: Fortean Times * Northwest Mysteries * Mystic's Cyberpage * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Allies, CIA/NSA, and Vietnam veterans welcome] Southeast Asia (SEA) service: Vietnam - Theater Telecommunications Center/HHC, 1st Aviation Brigade (Jan 71 - Aug 72) Thailand/Laos - Telecommunications Center/U.S. Army Support Thailand (USARSUPTHAI), Camp Samae San (Jan 73 - Aug 73) - Special Security/Strategic Communications - Thailand (STRATCOM - Thailand), Phu Mu (Pig Mountain) Signal Site (Aug 73 - Jan 74) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:24:46 +0800 From: "James P. Stevenson" Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways This statement . . . > I think that the Star Wars efforts did a lot of good-it > bankrupted the Russians and we don't have a cold war at present . . . makes and assertion for which there is no evidence. True, the Soviets crumbled after the Star Wars effort began but that does not prove that the Star Wars effort was the cause. Jim Stevenson ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:15:18 -0500 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways Jim, I would agree that there is no "hard evidence" that Star Wars brought down the Soviet Union.... however, numerous old-timers from the various "inside" governmental offices have written books or been interviewed for books, and many of those insiders have stated that keeping up that keeping with up the Western military, not just ours, but all of NATO combined, was killing the Soviet economy, and many have said that Star Wars was the final straw that broke the bank, so to speak.... I don't think anyone would say that Star Wars alone did it, but that seems to be the last program that the Soviets could counter....or attempt to counter... The "Brilliant Pebbles" program could probably be added to that category too.... Greg W - -----Original Message----- From: James P. Stevenson [mailto:jamesstevenson@sprintmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 08:25 PM To: Skunkworks Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Re: Stars Wars was a success in a number of ways This statement . . . > I think that the Star Wars efforts did a lot of good-it > bankrupted the Russians and we don't have a cold war at present . . . makes and assertion for which there is no evidence. True, the Soviets crumbled after the Star Wars effort began but that does not prove that the Star Wars effort was the cause. Jim Stevenson Greg Weigold, Sr. Technical Consultant CyberLife BPO eCommerce Computer Sciences Corporation Columbia, SC Office: 803-333-6952 mailto:gregweigold@mynd.com Pager: 803-654-7653 mailto:8036547653@mobilecomm.net Cellular: 803-622-5045 ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V9 #91 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner