From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V10 #5 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Saturday, March 10 2001 Volume 10 : Number 005 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition RE: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Re: SR-71 Dash One Story SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight X-33: premonitions of doom Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Skunk Works topic *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 10:45:45 +0100 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Hello all, yesterday I received my copy of Jay Miller's "The X-Planes: X-1 to X-45". A quick browse showed that it does indeed, as advertised, include _a lot_ of new material, not only for the new entries, but also for the earlier ones (_many_ new photos and drawings!). I think it's a "must have" for any X-plane enthusiast, even if they already have the previous edition(s). Thank you very mich, Jay, for the excellent work! (and for being well on schedule, too - it doesn't happen often that a book with an announced publication data of "March 2001" is received on the 5th of the month :-)) However, it's a bit ironic that the release of the book almost perfectly coincides with NASA's cancellation of the X-33/X-34 programs :-/ . All the best Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:08:54 -0500 From: "Frank Markus" Subject: RE: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition I went to both Amazon.com and bn.com (Barnes & Noble) and searched under both Jay Miller and X-Planes. No luck on either. The book was simply unlisted, no even as forthcoming. Please point me to a source - preferably an online source - for this book. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Andreas Parsch Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 4:46 AM To: Skunk Works List Subject: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Hello all, yesterday I received my copy of Jay Miller's "The X-Planes: X-1 to X-45". A quick browse showed that it does indeed, as advertised, include _a lot_ of new material, not only for the new entries, but also for the earlier ones (_many_ new photos and drawings!). I think it's a "must have" for any X-plane enthusiast, even if they already have the previous edition(s). Thank you very mich, Jay, for the excellent work! (and for being well on schedule, too - it doesn't happen often that a book with an announced publication data of "March 2001" is received on the 5th of the month :-)) However, it's a bit ironic that the release of the book almost perfectly coincides with NASA's cancellation of the X-33/X-34 programs :-/ . All the best Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:21:07 +0000 From: h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk Subject: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hi All, I have the following questions: 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? Or certain other shapes are suitable? 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach or exceed Mach 4? 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit one way or another from this data. Thanks, Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:24:50 -0600 From: "Dolney, Al" Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. My .02. Al Dolney Ph. 256-961-1984 Fax. 256-544-2913 e-mail: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx snail-mail: JJ-40 - -----Original Message----- From: h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk [mailto:h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:21 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hi All, I have the following questions: 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? Or certain other shapes are suitable? 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach or exceed Mach 4? 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit one way or another from this data. Thanks, Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:06:05 -0500 From: Joe Donoghue Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight At 07:24 AM 3/6/01 -0600, Al Dolney wrote: >I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with >Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current >Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor >that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self >destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. aviation.mil.) Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:34:42 +0100 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Frank Markus wrote: > > I went to both Amazon.com and bn.com (Barnes & Noble) and searched under > both Jay Miller and X-Planes. No luck on either. The book was simply > unlisted, no even as forthcoming. Please point me to a source - > preferably an online source - for this book. > Hello Frank, I checked a few other online bookstores, but no luck either ... Anyway, I got the book from the mail order service of Midland Counties Publications (UK). Since they happen to be the publisher of the book, they've probably got a head start ;-)! They have a _very_ new (since a few days) online shop at http://www.ianallansuperstore.com but the title is apparently not yet entered into the database. However, you can order it by phone, fax or e-mail. Strangly, the e-mail address isn't listed on the "Contact" page of the site, but AFAIK is still valid at: midlandbooks@compuserve.com The "Info" page on the website gives details about delivery options, costs and times. Hope this helps! Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: David Allison Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hello, John Stone (www.blackbirds.net) covers this topic here: http://www.blackbirds.net/bbirdm&f.html The airplane itself has enough thrust to achieve whatever speed it would take to destroy itself. Most of the pilots I've talked to say that the airframe cruises at Mach 3 in minimum after- burner; it takes full afterburner to accellerate to that speed, but very little to maintain it. Thrust is not the limiting speed factor, temperature is. The maximum operating temperature is 427 deg. C at the compressor inlet (CIT), about 800 deg. F. Some of this 800 degree air is bypassed thru the engine to cool the rear part of the engine (believe it or not, blowing 800 degree air on something that's 1200 degrees will cool it down). If the air in the inlet gets hotter than that, it no longer has the ability to cool the rest of the engine, and temps begin to rise beyond control unless you slow back down. Jack Layton said once that they took a YF-12 to Mach 3.6 for exactly 2 minutes, and very bad things started happening very quickly. When they landed they looked the airframe over and found they had melted most of the insulation off the wiring on the engines. As Ray Scalise would say, "That was bad." - D - David Allison webmaster@habu.org S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Donoghue wrote: > At 07:24 AM 3/6/01 -0600, Al Dolney wrote: > >I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with > >Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current > >Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor > >that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self > >destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. > > > There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock > wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much > faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. > aviation.mil.) > > > Joe Donoghue > > > > ------------------------------ Date: 6 Mar 2001 09:19:14 -0800 From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition On Tue, 06 March 2001, Andreas Parsch wrote: > Anyway, I got the book from the mail order service of Midland Counties > Publications (UK). Since they happen to be the publisher of the book, > they've probably got a head start ;-)! I just spoke with Jay Miller, he said he hasn't even received a copy yet!!!! Jay said the importer is actually Specialty Press (which I think is the same as Midland Counties but not sure). He didn't have any other info on other sources, on-line or otherwise. He did mention that the X-33 chapter alludes to the possibility that the X-33 might be cancelled in the future - the man certainly has his sources!!! Greg Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 12:16:09 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition > I just spoke with Jay Miller, [snip] > He did mention that the X-33 chapter alludes to the possibility that the X-33 might be > cancelled in the future - the man certainly has his sources!!! The X-33 had the smell of death about it for the last couple of years at least. There was some early hope that the program wasn't so much for development and demonstration of several new technologies as for bringing them out of the black world. Alas, that seems to have been wishful thinking. For those who have access to Usenet archives, pertinent discussions were carried on in sci.space.policy. One hopes that a book is written about X-33. (This is a hint for a certain author who has delved into the F-18 E/F and A-12 stories. :) ) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:47:08 -0800 From: Larry Smith Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight I'm reposting something I posted back in July of 1999 that addresses this issue. From CIT max, ie: what is given, it's quite easy to estimate the SR's top speed if you understand the physical process that is occurring before the compressor inlet is reached. In fact, it is so simple that it could be easily added as a quiz question to a first aero class course if the professor explained the supersonic diffusion (inlet) process. Given that the supersonic diffusion or inlet process slows the freestream flow before combustion from freestream velocity to about M .2 or so, one can use the stagnation temperature equation to estimate the physical effects of this process! So all of you, go lookup this equation. An additional benefit of this equation is that one can see the effect of cooler ambient temperatures at different altitudes on ultimate Mach No! Use: T0 of 700 degrees K (CIT max, per SR Dash-1 and Bill Brown's Lockheed Horizon's piece. T of 219 degrees K (ambient temp at roughly 85,000 ft) Lambda of 1.4 (Ratio of specific heats) Plug them into the stagnation temperature formula, and solve for Mach No. The answer I get is: Mach 3.32 !! Pretty darn close!! In fact, in the Lockheed Horizons piece by Bill Brown, he mentions 100,000 ft. I recalculated using 232 degrees K for ambient temperature at 100,000 ft. The answer comes out to Mach 3.2, with a CIT of 700 degrees K at 100,000 ft. Ah, the benefit of cooler temperatures! >>>Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The >>>limiting factor that I recall was the design of the canopy. >>>Apparently it was close to self destruction at the low to >>>mid- Mach 3 range. You may be thinking of the XF8U-3 here. A quite capable Mach 2.8 airplane that achieved its speed with a FIXED COMPRESSION inlet, unlike the SR's inlet which was VARIABLE. And it predated the A-12 by around 3-4 years I think. There's interesting food for thought when one compares the two inlets on those two airplanes. Larry > >-----Original Message----- >From: David Allison [mailto:allison@habu.org] >Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 6:45 AM >To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight > > >Hello, > >John Stone (www.blackbirds.net) covers this topic here: > > http://www.blackbirds.net/bbirdm&f.html > >The airplane itself has enough thrust to achieve whatever speed >it would take to destroy itself. Most of the pilots I've talked >to say that the airframe cruises at Mach 3 in minimum after- >burner; it takes full afterburner to accellerate to that speed, >but very little to maintain it. Thrust is not the limiting >speed factor, temperature is. > >The maximum operating temperature is 427 deg. C at the compressor >inlet (CIT), about 800 deg. F. Some of this 800 degree air is >bypassed thru the engine to cool the rear part of the engine >(believe it or not, blowing 800 degree air on something that's >1200 degrees will cool it down). If the air in the inlet gets >hotter than that, it no longer has the ability to cool the >rest of the engine, and temps begin to rise beyond control >unless you slow back down. > >Jack Layton said once that they took a YF-12 to Mach 3.6 for >exactly 2 minutes, and very bad things started happening very >quickly. When they landed they looked the airframe over and >found they had melted most of the insulation off the wiring >on the engines. As Ray Scalise would say, "That was bad." > > - D - > >David Allison >webmaster@habu.org > > S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T > tm > / \ > / \ > _/ ___ \_ > ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ > \__/ \___/ \__/ > > www.habu.org > The OnLine Blackbird Museum > >On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Donoghue wrote: > >> At 07:24 AM 3/6/01 -0600, Al Dolney wrote: >> >I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with >> >Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current >> >Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor >> >that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self >> >destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. >> >> >> There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock >> wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much >> faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. >> aviation.mil.) >> >> >> Joe Donoghue >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:11:19 +0100 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Am Dienstag, 6. März 2001 18:19 schrieben Sie: > > I just spoke with Jay Miller, he said he hasn't even received a copy > yet!!!! Jay said the importer is actually Specialty Press (which I > think is the same as Midland Counties but not sure). He didn't have > any other info on other sources, on-line or otherwise. I guess the simple explanation for all is, that I live in Germany - and shipping from the UK to Germany is just a bit faster than to the USA ;-)! Best wishes Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 07:24:50 -0600 From: "Dolney, Al" Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. My .02. Al Dolney Ph. 256-961-1984 Fax. 256-544-2913 e-mail: al.dolney@boeing.com snail-mail: JJ-40 - -----Original Message----- From: h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk [mailto:h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 7:21 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hi All, I have the following questions: 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? Or certain other shapes are suitable? 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach or exceed Mach 4? 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit one way or another from this data. Thanks, Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:44:45 -0500 (EST) From: David Allison Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hello, John Stone (www.blackbirds.net) covers this topic here: http://www.blackbirds.net/bbirdm&f.html The airplane itself has enough thrust to achieve whatever speed it would take to destroy itself. Most of the pilots I've talked to say that the airframe cruises at Mach 3 in minimum after- burner; it takes full afterburner to accellerate to that speed, but very little to maintain it. Thrust is not the limiting speed factor, temperature is. The maximum operating temperature is 427 deg. C at the compressor inlet (CIT), about 800 deg. F. Some of this 800 degree air is bypassed thru the engine to cool the rear part of the engine (believe it or not, blowing 800 degree air on something that's 1200 degrees will cool it down). If the air in the inlet gets hotter than that, it no longer has the ability to cool the rest of the engine, and temps begin to rise beyond control unless you slow back down. Jack Layton said once that they took a YF-12 to Mach 3.6 for exactly 2 minutes, and very bad things started happening very quickly. When they landed they looked the airframe over and found they had melted most of the insulation off the wiring on the engines. As Ray Scalise would say, "That was bad." - D - David Allison webmaster@habu.org S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Donoghue wrote: > At 07:24 AM 3/6/01 -0600, Al Dolney wrote: > >I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with > >Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current > >Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor > >that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self > >destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. > > > There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock > wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much > faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. > aviation.mil.) > > > Joe Donoghue > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:21:07 +0000 From: h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk Subject: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hi All, I have the following questions: 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? Or certain other shapes are suitable? 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach or exceed Mach 4? 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit one way or another from this data. Thanks, Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 01:55:11 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Brent Clark wrote: > > With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on > E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story > as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing. > I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper > channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it > met with disapproval from certain channels. > The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the > photo copied document. > Thanks for satisfying my curiosity, Brent $450.00!!! Wow now I feel like I got mine when Zenith Books, aka Motorbooks, sold them for $100. Jim Goodall told me that originally 1500 copies were printed and all of them were sold. I had heard that there were some copies with skewed pages or folded pages. These were sold at a lower value. I have read one or two posts about some problems that came about having the manual available, but I don't want to post incorrect info because I don't remember it well enough. I notice a few pages missing and called ZB's customer service to see if I got a bad copy. The woman said "they" didn't realize that some sections were not included, so their ad in their catalog made it seem like it was 101% complete. It could be that ad was already written and integrated into the catalog before they became aware of it. I asked her if she had many calls about this and she said yes, several calls everyday!! I am assuming that the still classified pages are kept under lock and key and perhaps with an armed guard around. We may never them. Al ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:21:07 +0000 From: h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk Subject: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Hi All, I have the following questions: 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? Or certain other shapes are suitable? 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach or exceed Mach 4? 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit one way or another from this data. Thanks, Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:06:05 -0500 From: Joe Donoghue Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight At 07:24 AM 3/6/01 -0600, Al Dolney wrote: >I seem to recall in Jim Goodall's book that this issue was discussed with >Lockheed/Kelly Johnson back in the 60's. The consensus was that the current >Blackbird was flying right on the hairy edge as it was. The limiting factor >that I recall was the design of the canopy. Apparently it was close to self >destruction at the low to mid- Mach 3 range. There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. aviation.mil.) Joe Donoghue ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:05:46 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: X-33: premonitions of doom These two essays from May 1997 are quite remarkable, and well worth reading. There were indeed people who understood in considerable detail what was going to happen to X-33, and why. http://www.space-access.org/updates/sau71.html ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 08:32:23 -0800 From: "Habu" Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story $450.00+ ? Mine is now for sale. Bought it when it first came out, used it for reference several times, and its been on the shelf for the past several years. Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert H. Dobyns To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 23:55 Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story > Brent Clark wrote: > > > > With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on > > E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story > > as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing. > > I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper > > channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it > > met with disapproval from certain channels. > > The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the > > photo copied document. > > Thanks for satisfying my curiosity, Brent > > $ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 17:47:17 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Habu wrote: > > $450.00+ ? Mine is now for sale. Bought it when it first came out, used > it for reference several times, and its been on the shelf for the past > several years. > > Jon > Joh, how could a true blue SR fan even consider selling such a special item??? That's close to being un-American! OTOH if the price makes it up to $750, I'll have to take it and run! ;-)) Al ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 16:08:26 -0800 From: "Habu" Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Hi Al, How ya been? I have finally come to the realizaiton thet since the SR's are no longer flying, my chances of flying one went from several billion to one, to "not an ice cubes chance in hell". 8>) Besides, as a retired volunteer at the Blackbird Airpark, I have access to the original document which the Goodall book was copied from. Lastly, I must admit that I have found most of W. E. B. Griffins books to be much more readable. Jon - ----- Original Message ----- From: Albert H. Dobyns To: Sent: Friday, March 09, 2001 15:47 Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story > Habu wrote: > > > > $450.00+ ? Mine is now for sale. Bought it when it first came out, used > > it for reference several times, and its been on the shelf for the past > > several years. > > > > Jon > > > Joh, how could a true blue SR fan even consider selling > such a special item??? That's close to being un-American! > OTOH if the price makes it up to $750, I'll have to take > it and run! ;-)) > Al > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:11:19 +0100 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Re: "The X-Planes" - 3rd Edition Am Dienstag, 6. März 2001 18:19 schrieben Sie: > > I just spoke with Jay Miller, he said he hasn't even received a copy > yet!!!! Jay said the importer is actually Specialty Press (which I > think is the same as Midland Counties but not sure). He didn't have > any other info on other sources, on-line or otherwise. I guess the simple explanation for all is, that I live in Germany - and shipping from the UK to Germany is just a bit faster than to the USA ;-)! Best wishes Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.andreas-parsch.online.de ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 01:21:10 -0800 (PST) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Skunk Works topic Q:What did the judge say to the skunk? A: Odour in the court! :P Sorry, just keep the list a little busy, funny and "on-topic" :) Feel bad that they cancelled the X-33. May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@its.caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Whether outwardly or inwardly, whether in space or time, the farther we penetrate the unknown, the vaster and more marvelous it becomes." Charles A. 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