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Subject: skunk-works-digest V10 #7
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skunk-works-digest Sunday, March 18 2001 Volume 10 : Number 007
Index of this digest by subject:
***************************************************
M=4 SR-71
RE: M=4 SR-71
Re: M=4 SR-71
(fwd) Soviet WIG development
Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development
Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development
FA. Lockheed ADP Report: YF-12A Pilots Information and Questionaire.
Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
Re: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight
RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight
Re: M=4 SR-71
Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
***************************************************
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:36 -0800
From: David Lednicer
Subject: M=4 SR-71
According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility
Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1
"Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle":
"The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless
absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight
envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data
for continued extension up to Mach 4.0.
- - Some basic assumptions are:
- -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line
accelerations.
- -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat
soak at intermediate Mach numbers
- -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes
- -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from
310 to 400 KEAS
- -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the
same will be incorporated.
- -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft
of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach
number or C.I.T."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:42:28 -0600
From: "Dolney, Al"
Subject: RE: M=4 SR-71
Dave,
Dumb question for the week:
What does this mean:
- -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from
310 to 400 KEAS
Thanks,
Al Dolney
Ph. 256-961-1984
Fax. 256-544-2913
e-mail: al.dolney@boeing.com
snail-mail: JJ-40
- -----Original Message-----
From: David Lednicer [mailto:dave@amiwest.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:59 AM
To: Skunk Works Group
Subject: M=4 SR-71
According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility
Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1
"Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle":
"The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless
absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight
envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data
for continued extension up to Mach 4.0.
- - Some basic assumptions are:
- -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line
accelerations.
- -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat
soak at intermediate Mach numbers
- -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes
- -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from
310 to 400 KEAS
- -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the
same will be incorporated.
- -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft
of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach
number or C.I.T."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:23:30 -0600
From: "Albert H. Dobyns"
Subject: Re: M=4 SR-71
David Lednicer wrote:
>
> According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility
> Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1
> "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle":
>
> "The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless
> absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight
> envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data
> for continued extension up to Mach 4.0.
>
> - Some basic assumptions are:
>
> -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line
> accelerations.
>
> -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat
> soak at intermediate Mach numbers
>
> -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes
>
> -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from
> 310 to 400 KEAS
>
> -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the
> same will be incorporated.
>
> -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft
> of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach
> number or C.I.T."
The description makes it seem like it could work. Couldn't
NASA have tried this since the modified inlet was created
at a NASA facility? I don't know if this modified inlet was
really built and tested in a wind tunnel or if it's only a
computer model.
It's been claimed that an A-12 once reached Mach 3.56 for
a very brief time. It may have been done at a higher
altitude than the SR-71 could fly where maybe the air is
colder. Anyway it's an interesting thought.
Al
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:29:02 -0600
From: George R. Kasica
Subject: (fwd) Soviet WIG development
Subject: Soviet WIG development
From: "Allen Thomson"
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:17:31 -0600
Among the CIA documents declassified last week is a 1988 one on Soviet
Wing-in-ground-effect vehicles, (aka WIGs or ekranoplany).
Unfortunately,
it's in the form of a collection of GIFed page images, but still
readable.
(Also unfortunately if unsurprisingly, they've "redacted" (censored)
the
satellite pix, which makes for a number of blank pages.)
It's in a somewhat awkward-to-access form at the cia FOIA web site,
and also
available in a zipped file of all the images at http://cryptome.org/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:41:03 EST
From: SecretJet@aol.com
Subject: Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development
Greetings (from UK!),
Regarding (off topic?) Russian Ekranoplans, there was
a superb TV documentary on the history of these fascinating
'aircraft' - the show was called 'Caspian Sea Monsters', &
shown a few years ago, still repeated occasionally...
I have the video copy of it somewhere, but it'll be in our
UK/European format (PAL/SECAM, not NTSC).
The saddest aspect was how the factory was so run down,
the chief designer sacked & almost destitute, the few
remaining loyal staff at the plant clinging on to the forlorn
hope that one day the huge vehicles may float/fly again.
For those who are interested, there are several NEW WIG
projects in developement, one German design is like a
Microlite/Hang Glider type thing! (Looked great in the film!)
- -----------------------------------------
Regards,
Bill Turner, 'Admin'.
Black-Triangle E-Group HQ.
Near London Heathrow, UK.
http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/index.html
http://members.aol.com/BlackTriangles/index.html
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
No Door is Closed - To an Open Mind!
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/index.html
http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/Links.html
Black-Triangle Links
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:52:55
From: "wayne binkley"
Subject: Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:38:02 -0800
From: "Habu"
Subject: FA. Lockheed ADP Report: YF-12A Pilots Information and Questionaire.
If interested, click link below.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1417625955
Thanks,
PJ
Jon Price (PJ)
****************************************
I don't know but I've been told,
You never slow down, you'll never grow old.
Tom Petty---
Last Dance With Mary Jane
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:02:43 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Shafer
Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Brent Clark wrote:
> With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on
> E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story
> as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing.
> I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper
> channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it
> met with disapproval from certain channels.
Not quite. Goodall scammed the manual from the Dryden project manager
with a fancy story about being associated with one of the museums that
got an SR-71 in the 1990 diaspora. He begged for a copy of the Dash-1
as the museum supposedly needed it for setting up the display. The next
thing we knew, he'd designed a fancy cover, run off a bunch of copies,
and put them on sale through Zenith. While what he did wasn't illegal
(others did the same thing with the Meese report on pornography, for
example), he'd misrepresented himself and his need for the manual. The
USAF was far from pleased, not that it did any good.
I have no idea why no further releases were made, as there was nothing
the government could do about it.
Maybe I'll start selling copies of my copy after I retire. All I have
to do is put a different fancy cover on it and go to Kinkos. Actually,
my copy has already been copied once, about five years ago. A visitor
borrowed it overnight and went to Kinkos, where the copy cost about $50.
> The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the
> photo copied document.
Er, it's not a xerocopy but a xerocopy of a xerocopy.
Regards,
Mary
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
"Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:07:57 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Shafer
Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Albert H. Dobyns wrote:
> I have read one or two posts about some problems that came
> about having the manual available, but I don't want to post
> incorrect info because I don't remember it well enough. I
> notice a few pages missing and called ZB's customer service
> to see if I got a bad copy. The woman said "they" didn't
> realize that some sections were not included, so their ad
> in their catalog made it seem like it was 101% complete.
> It could be that ad was already written and integrated into
> the catalog before they became aware of it. I asked her if
> she had many calls about this and she said yes, several
> calls everyday!!
Most of those sections were left out because they referred to classified
recce gear (or were on the same page as stuff that did), but there is at
least one page that got omitted during the copying. I've managed to get
a copy of that page.
> I am assuming that the still classified pages are kept under
> lock and key and perhaps with an armed guard around. We may
> never them.
Since the missing section is about how to work the classified recce
gear, you're probably right. However, classified material is stored in
fireproof containers with combination locks, not keys, and the armed
guard is guarding the entire facility, not just one particular container
(oh, yes, a container is a four-drawer file cabinet, not nearly as
exotic as it sounds).
Mary
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
"Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:14:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Shafer
Subject: Re: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have the following questions:
>
> 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight?
No.
> Or certain other shapes are suitable?
Sure-the X-15's shape, the Shuttle's shape, the SWERVE and REENTRY-F
shapes, and a bunch of others are quite suitable for hypersonic flight
and have demonstrated it years ago.
> 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach
> or exceed Mach 4?
No, because the bow shock would melt the wings off where it impinges
them. The theoretical maximum is about 3.5 Mach.
> 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project
> was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information
> gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit
> one way or another from this data.
Some gets published and it all gets archived. NASA is actually smart
enough to know that's a good idea. Did you think it all got thrown away
or something?
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
"Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:28:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Shafer
Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight
On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Donoghue wrote:
> There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock
> wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much
> faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec.
> aviation.mil.)
You have an excellent memory and you have retained all but one part of
the argument, which is that the problem is shock impingement on the
leading edge of the wing, not the inlets. You'd burn the outboard wing
sections off long before the shock got to the inlets. The Mach 3.5 that
you mention is the speed at which the bow shock would impinge on the
_wingtips_, not the inlets.
Those readers that are interested in confirming this can work it out
themselves with a good planform drawing of the airplane, a ruler, and a
protractor, plus a table of shock wave angles. If you measure the angle
from the tip of the nose to the wingtip and look up that angle in the
table, you'll discover that the answer is, as mentioned here, Mach 3.5
or so.
Incidentally, this is only the case for cruise, as a quick dash to a
higher speed wouldn't result in impingement that lasted long enough to
do any damage. I have heard (or read, perhaps in "Blackbird Rising")
that they did dash to 3.5 in the initial testing and that there was no
damage to the aircraft. I would also expect that anything more than a
dash would damage the engine and inlet, as well as the nose itself.
Mary
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
"Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:45:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Mary Shafer
Subject: Re: M=4 SR-71
On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, David Lednicer wrote:
> According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility
> Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1
> "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle":
> -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat
> soak at intermediate Mach numbers
> -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes
See? A dash, not cruise.
Mary
Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
"Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:59:29 -0700
From: Brent Clark
Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story
Mary,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate getting the story straight, Brent
Mary Shafer wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Brent Clark wrote:
>
> > With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on
> > E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story
> > as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing.
> > I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper
> > channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it
> > met with disapproval from certain channels.
>
> Not quite. Goodall scammed the manual from the Dryden project manager
> with a fancy story about being associated with one of the museums that
> got an SR-71 in the 1990 diaspora. He begged for a copy of the Dash-1
> as the museum supposedly needed it for setting up the display. The next
> thing we knew, he'd designed a fancy cover, run off a bunch of copies,
> and put them on sale through Zenith. While what he did wasn't illegal
> (others did the same thing with the Meese report on pornography, for
> example), he'd misrepresented himself and his need for the manual. The
> USAF was far from pleased, not that it did any good.
>
> I have no idea why no further releases were made, as there was nothing
> the government could do about it.
>
> Maybe I'll start selling copies of my copy after I retire. All I have
> to do is put a different fancy cover on it and go to Kinkos. Actually,
> my copy has already been copied once, about five years ago. A visitor
> borrowed it overnight and went to Kinkos, where the copy cost about $50.
>
> > The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the
> > photo copied document.
>
> Er, it's not a xerocopy but a xerocopy of a xerocopy.
>
> Regards,
> Mary
>
> Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com
> "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard
> Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...."
------------------------------
End of skunk-works-digest V10 #7
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