From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V10 #7 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Sunday, March 18 2001 Volume 10 : Number 007 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** M=4 SR-71 RE: M=4 SR-71 Re: M=4 SR-71 (fwd) Soviet WIG development Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development FA. Lockheed ADP Report: YF-12A Pilots Information and Questionaire. Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight Re: M=4 SR-71 Re: SR-71 Dash One Story *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:58:36 -0800 From: David Lednicer Subject: M=4 SR-71 According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1 "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle": "The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data for continued extension up to Mach 4.0. - - Some basic assumptions are: - -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line accelerations. - -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat soak at intermediate Mach numbers - -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes - -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from 310 to 400 KEAS - -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the same will be incorporated. - -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach number or C.I.T." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 11:42:28 -0600 From: "Dolney, Al" Subject: RE: M=4 SR-71 Dave, Dumb question for the week: What does this mean: - -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from 310 to 400 KEAS Thanks, Al Dolney Ph. 256-961-1984 Fax. 256-544-2913 e-mail: al.dolney@boeing.com snail-mail: JJ-40 - -----Original Message----- From: David Lednicer [mailto:dave@amiwest.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 10:59 AM To: Skunk Works Group Subject: M=4 SR-71 According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1 "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle": "The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data for continued extension up to Mach 4.0. - - Some basic assumptions are: - -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line accelerations. - -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat soak at intermediate Mach numbers - -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes - -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from 310 to 400 KEAS - -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the same will be incorporated. - -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach number or C.I.T." ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:23:30 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: M=4 SR-71 David Lednicer wrote: > > According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility > Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1 > "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle": > > "The philosphy to be used is that nothing is to be changed unless > absolutely mandatory for safety of flight at Mach 4.0. The flight > envelope expansion extension will be in step increments to provide data > for continued extension up to Mach 4.0. > > - Some basic assumptions are: > > -- Acceleration to Mach numbers in excess of 3.2 will be straight line > accelerations. > > -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat > soak at intermediate Mach numbers > > -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes > > -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range from > 310 to 400 KEAS > > -- The NASA Ames Research Center Mach 3.5 inlet or a derivative of the > same will be incorporated. > > -- The inlet will incorporate a redundant water injection system just aft > of the throat. Water injection will probable be controlled either by Mach > number or C.I.T." The description makes it seem like it could work. Couldn't NASA have tried this since the modified inlet was created at a NASA facility? I don't know if this modified inlet was really built and tested in a wind tunnel or if it's only a computer model. It's been claimed that an A-12 once reached Mach 3.56 for a very brief time. It may have been done at a higher altitude than the SR-71 could fly where maybe the air is colder. Anyway it's an interesting thought. Al ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:29:02 -0600 From: George R. Kasica Subject: (fwd) Soviet WIG development Subject: Soviet WIG development From: "Allen Thomson" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:17:31 -0600 Among the CIA documents declassified last week is a 1988 one on Soviet Wing-in-ground-effect vehicles, (aka WIGs or ekranoplany). Unfortunately, it's in the form of a collection of GIFed page images, but still readable. (Also unfortunately if unsurprisingly, they've "redacted" (censored) the satellite pix, which makes for a number of blank pages.) It's in a somewhat awkward-to-access form at the cia FOIA web site, and also available in a zipped file of all the images at http://cryptome.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:41:03 EST From: SecretJet@aol.com Subject: Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development Greetings (from UK!), Regarding (off topic?) Russian Ekranoplans, there was a superb TV documentary on the history of these fascinating 'aircraft' - the show was called 'Caspian Sea Monsters', & shown a few years ago, still repeated occasionally... I have the video copy of it somewhere, but it'll be in our UK/European format (PAL/SECAM, not NTSC). The saddest aspect was how the factory was so run down, the chief designer sacked & almost destitute, the few remaining loyal staff at the plant clinging on to the forlorn hope that one day the huge vehicles may float/fly again. For those who are interested, there are several NEW WIG projects in developement, one German design is like a Microlite/Hang Glider type thing! (Looked great in the film!) - ----------------------------------------- Regards, Bill Turner, 'Admin'. Black-Triangle E-Group HQ. Near London Heathrow, UK. http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/index.html http://members.aol.com/BlackTriangles/index.html - ----------------------------------------------------------------- No Door is Closed - To an Open Mind! - ----------------------------------------------------------------- http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/index.html http://members.aol.com/Secretjet/Links.html Black-Triangle Links ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:52:55 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: (fwd) Soviet WIG development

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Untitled
... Institute of the Ministry of Transport plans to conduct a safety study of Russian
ekranoplans in a few months, as Japan is contemplating purchase of some of ...
www.onr.navy.mil/onrasia/systems/1996/030196S.html - 7k - Cached - Similar pages

Untitled
... ekranoplans. The Russian ekranoplans have been under serious development for a few
decades now and some very large machines have been constructed and flown. ...
www.onr.navy.mil/onrasia/systems/1996/020696S.HTML - 16k - Cached - Similar pages

The WebAlias Network: WebAlias Not Found
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on The WebAlias Network. Perhaps you just misspelled it, so click here for a ...
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About The WIG Page
... I came to start this site. Here it goes: My interest in WIG vehicles started in 1994
when I read an article about Russian Ekranoplans in Aviation Week & Space ...
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The Ground Effect Craft HOVERWING
... The ground effect technology has been developed since some decades (eg the russian
Ekranoplans), but the problem was always to overcome the resistance in water ...
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History
... effective multipurpose ekranoplans. Table 1 First generation
Russian ekranoplans Name of ekranoplan, ...
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Amphistar USA presents: The Xtreme Xplorer!
... experienced WIG operator in the world. During last 30 years he operated all Russian
Ekranoplans, and for many years he was the pilot of the "Caspian Sea Monster ...
www.amphistar.com/home_sites.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages

Military Aviation Side Menu
... Operation Bodenplatte Reach for the Sky Russian Ekranoplans SAR, Helicopters
and such Saab Jaas-39 Grippen Salty's Homepage: MILITARY AIRCRAFT ...
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Venik's Aviation Page - Schedule: February 2000
... Russian Ekranoplans front page debut Location: http://way.to/ekranoplans.
The Russian Ekranoplans ...
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Venik's Aviation Page - Schedule: Feb 26, 2000
... Russian Ekranoplans front page debut Location: http://way.to/ekranoplans.
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------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 21:38:02 -0800 From: "Habu" Subject: FA. Lockheed ADP Report: YF-12A Pilots Information and Questionaire. If interested, click link below. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1417625955 Thanks, PJ Jon Price (PJ) **************************************** I don't know but I've been told, You never slow down, you'll never grow old. Tom Petty--- Last Dance With Mary Jane ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:02:43 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Brent Clark wrote: > With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on > E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story > as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing. > I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper > channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it > met with disapproval from certain channels. Not quite. Goodall scammed the manual from the Dryden project manager with a fancy story about being associated with one of the museums that got an SR-71 in the 1990 diaspora. He begged for a copy of the Dash-1 as the museum supposedly needed it for setting up the display. The next thing we knew, he'd designed a fancy cover, run off a bunch of copies, and put them on sale through Zenith. While what he did wasn't illegal (others did the same thing with the Meese report on pornography, for example), he'd misrepresented himself and his need for the manual. The USAF was far from pleased, not that it did any good. I have no idea why no further releases were made, as there was nothing the government could do about it. Maybe I'll start selling copies of my copy after I retire. All I have to do is put a different fancy cover on it and go to Kinkos. Actually, my copy has already been copied once, about five years ago. A visitor borrowed it overnight and went to Kinkos, where the copy cost about $50. > The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the > photo copied document. Er, it's not a xerocopy but a xerocopy of a xerocopy. Regards, Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:07:57 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Albert H. Dobyns wrote: > I have read one or two posts about some problems that came > about having the manual available, but I don't want to post > incorrect info because I don't remember it well enough. I > notice a few pages missing and called ZB's customer service > to see if I got a bad copy. The woman said "they" didn't > realize that some sections were not included, so their ad > in their catalog made it seem like it was 101% complete. > It could be that ad was already written and integrated into > the catalog before they became aware of it. I asked her if > she had many calls about this and she said yes, several > calls everyday!! Most of those sections were left out because they referred to classified recce gear (or were on the same page as stuff that did), but there is at least one page that got omitted during the copying. I've managed to get a copy of that page. > I am assuming that the still classified pages are kept under > lock and key and perhaps with an armed guard around. We may > never them. Since the missing section is about how to work the classified recce gear, you're probably right. However, classified material is stored in fireproof containers with combination locks, not keys, and the armed guard is guarding the entire facility, not just one particular container (oh, yes, a container is a four-drawer file cabinet, not nearly as exotic as it sounds). Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:14:44 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight On Tue, 6 Mar 2001 h.n.s.yousef@swan.ac.uk wrote: > Hi All, > > I have the following questions: > > 1- Is the body of the SR-71 suitable for hypersonic flight? No. > Or certain other shapes are suitable? Sure-the X-15's shape, the Shuttle's shape, the SWERVE and REENTRY-F shapes, and a bunch of others are quite suitable for hypersonic flight and have demonstrated it years ago. > 2- If the SR-71 was fitted with more powerful engines will it reach > or exceed Mach 4? No, because the bow shock would melt the wings off where it impinges them. The theoretical maximum is about 3.5 Mach. > 3- Regarding the latest news on the X-33 and X-34 cuts, if a project > was cancelled, i.e. killed, what happens to all the information > gathered during that project? surely someone somewhere will benefit > one way or another from this data. Some gets published and it all gets archived. NASA is actually smart enough to know that's a good idea. Did you think it all got thrown away or something? Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:28:12 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: RE: SR-71 & Hypersonic Flight On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Joe Donoghue wrote: > There is also the issue of swallowing the shock. I believe that the shock > wave from the nose would impinge on the inlets if the aircraft got much > faster than M 3.5 or so. (This from memory of this discussion in rec. > aviation.mil.) You have an excellent memory and you have retained all but one part of the argument, which is that the problem is shock impingement on the leading edge of the wing, not the inlets. You'd burn the outboard wing sections off long before the shock got to the inlets. The Mach 3.5 that you mention is the speed at which the bow shock would impinge on the _wingtips_, not the inlets. Those readers that are interested in confirming this can work it out themselves with a good planform drawing of the airplane, a ruler, and a protractor, plus a table of shock wave angles. If you measure the angle from the tip of the nose to the wingtip and look up that angle in the table, you'll discover that the answer is, as mentioned here, Mach 3.5 or so. Incidentally, this is only the case for cruise, as a quick dash to a higher speed wouldn't result in impingement that lasted long enough to do any damage. I have heard (or read, perhaps in "Blackbird Rising") that they did dash to 3.5 in the initial testing and that there was no damage to the aircraft. I would also expect that anything more than a dash would damage the engine and inlet, as well as the nose itself. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 01:45:39 -0500 (EST) From: Mary Shafer Subject: Re: M=4 SR-71 On Wed, 14 Mar 2001, David Lednicer wrote: > According to "Lockheed SR-71 Supersonic/Hypersonic Research Facility > Researcher's Handbook; Volume II Technical Description" chapter 4.1 > "Modifying an SR-71 to a Mach 4.0 Capable Research Vehicle": > -- The accelerations will be continous to the desired Mach number, no heat > soak at intermediate Mach numbers > -- The maximum duration of this Mach number will be 5 minutes See? A dash, not cruise. Mary Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:59:29 -0700 From: Brent Clark Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Mary, Thanks for your reply. I appreciate getting the story straight, Brent Mary Shafer wrote: > On Mon, 5 Mar 2001, Brent Clark wrote: > > > With all the current frenzy regarding the sale of SR-71 Dash Ones on > > E-Bay ($450.00 on up), I was wondering if someone could relate the story > > as to why the manual was discontinued after only one printing. > > I understand that James Goodall received the manual through proper > > channels and had permission to print the Dash One, but after doing so it > > met with disapproval from certain channels. > > Not quite. Goodall scammed the manual from the Dryden project manager > with a fancy story about being associated with one of the museums that > got an SR-71 in the 1990 diaspora. He begged for a copy of the Dash-1 > as the museum supposedly needed it for setting up the display. The next > thing we knew, he'd designed a fancy cover, run off a bunch of copies, > and put them on sale through Zenith. While what he did wasn't illegal > (others did the same thing with the Meese report on pornography, for > example), he'd misrepresented himself and his need for the manual. The > USAF was far from pleased, not that it did any good. > > I have no idea why no further releases were made, as there was nothing > the government could do about it. > > Maybe I'll start selling copies of my copy after I retire. All I have > to do is put a different fancy cover on it and go to Kinkos. Actually, > my copy has already been copied once, about five years ago. A visitor > borrowed it overnight and went to Kinkos, where the copy cost about $50. > > > The manuals " rarity " has led to high prices and weekly auctions of the > > photo copied document. > > Er, it's not a xerocopy but a xerocopy of a xerocopy. > > Regards, > Mary > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V10 #7 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner