From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V10 #8 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Sunday, March 25 2001 Volume 10 : Number 008 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Re: skunk-works-digest V10 #7 M=4 SR-71 Soviet WIG development RE: M=4 SR-71 "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES F-22 vs. JSF Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES RE: F-22 vs. JSF Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Miller Collection Miller Collection *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 17:21:55 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: SR-71 Dash One Story Mary Shafer wrote: > > On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Albert H. Dobyns wrote: > [snip] > Most of those sections were left out because they referred to classified > recce gear (or were on the same page as stuff that did), but there is at > least one page that got omitted during the copying. I've managed to get > a copy of that page. Can you tell me what the page number is? I'd like to see what it described and probably knowing the page number and looking at nearby pages will make it obvious. If it doesn't oh well. I found the section on the center of gravity circular slide rule to be interesting, but all of a sudden another topic appears. Maybe the CG slide rule info on the missing page contains sensitive info? Or maybe the next topic falls under the category of still classified info. > > > I am assuming that the still classified pages are kept under > > lock and key and perhaps with an armed guard around. We may > > never them. > > Since the missing section is about how to work the classified recce > gear, you're probably right. However, classified material is stored in > fireproof containers with combination locks, not keys, and the armed > guard is guarding the entire facility, not just one particular container > (oh, yes, a container is a four-drawer file cabinet, not nearly as > exotic as it sounds). Well, shoot! The guy who told me this, a former U-2 and SR-71 pilot, must have embellished the description of how it's kept under lock and key. Or maybe some author wrote something like I described and I just merged the stories. > > Mary > > Mary Shafer DoD #0362 KotFR shafer@ursa-major.spdcc.com > "Some days it don't come easy/And some days it don't come hard > Some days it don't come at all/And these are the days that never end...." Al ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:24:53 +0000 From: Haitham Yousef Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V10 #7 Thank you all for your valuable answers to my questions regarding the SR-71 and hypersonic travel. Another question that comes to mind which is: What is the latest on the idea of minimizing or even getting rid of the shock wave associated with supe/hypersonic travel. I remember it was mentioned on this list that Skunk Works are working on it. Haitham ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:48 -0800 From: David Lednicer Subject: M=4 SR-71 Al asked: > Dumb question for the week: > > What does this mean: > > - -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range > from 310 to 400 KEAS Not so dumb - a couple of years ago, I would have been hard pressed to answer it. KEAS stands for Knots Equivalent Air Speed. If you know the true airspeed at altitude, you can find the dynamic pressure from the equation q=.5*Rho*Vel^2, where Rho is the density of air at the altitude you are at. Then, solving backwards from this q, using standard day sea level density, you get the equivalent airspeed at sea level. For the SR-71, at 70,000 feet, M=3.2, the true airspeed is 1835 KTAS, while the equivalent airspeed is 377 KEAS. Incidentally, the indicated airspeed, assuming perfect calibration, is 816 KIAS. Equivalent airspeed is often used when giving structural limits on an aircraft. These limits give the altitude limits for M=3.2 on a standard day - about 68,300 feet to 75,400 feet. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:41:57 -0800 From: David Lednicer Subject: Soviet WIG development I have a similar US Navy document. The author tipped me off when it was declassified, so I ordered a copy. It too was heavily redacted, but not as heavily as this one. Funny enough, they even redacted the author's name - the guy who tipped me off in the first place! I've also seen briefings from two people who were on the DARPA WIG fact-finding mission to Russia about ten years ago. Both showed videos of WIGs getting airborne and flying around. The bottom line is that WIGs are neat vehicles, but rather lack a mission. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 06:31:53 -0600 From: "Dolney, Al" Subject: RE: M=4 SR-71 Thanks, Al Dolney Ph. 256-961-1984 Fax. 256-544-2913 e-mail: al.dolney@boeing.com snail-mail: JJ-40 - -----Original Message----- From: David Lednicer [mailto:dave@amiwest.com] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 7:34 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: M=4 SR-71 Al asked: > Dumb question for the week: > > What does this mean: > > - -- Equivalent airspeed above Mach 3.2 will be limited to the range > from 310 to 400 KEAS Not so dumb - a couple of years ago, I would have been hard pressed to answer it. KEAS stands for Knots Equivalent Air Speed. If you know the true airspeed at altitude, you can find the dynamic pressure from the equation q=.5*Rho*Vel^2, where Rho is the density of air at the altitude you are at. Then, solving backwards from this q, using standard day sea level density, you get the equivalent airspeed at sea level. For the SR-71, at 70,000 feet, M=3.2, the true airspeed is 1835 KTAS, while the equivalent airspeed is 377 KEAS. Incidentally, the indicated airspeed, assuming perfect calibration, is 816 KIAS. Equivalent airspeed is often used when giving structural limits on an aircraft. These limits give the altitude limits for M=3.2 on a standard day - about 68,300 feet to 75,400 feet. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:37:03 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES << > ABSOLUTELY TRUE (probably) "SLED DRIVER" STORIES >> > >> > In his book," Sled Driver," SR- 71/ Blackbird pilot Brian Shulwrites: >> > >> > "I'll always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred oneday as >> > Walt (his backseater) and I were screaming across SouthernCalifornia >> > 13 miles high. >> > We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraftas we >> > >> > entered Los Angeles airspace." >> > >> > "Though they didn't really control us, they did monitor ourmovement >> > across their scope. I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its >> > groundspeed. >> > >> > "90 knots" Center replied. >> > >> > Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center >> > answered. >> > >> > "We weren't the only ones proud of our groundspeed that day.. as almost >> > instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, "Ah, Center, Dusty 52requests >> > groundspeed readout." >> > >> > "There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the ground, >> > Dusty". >> > >> > "Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a situation >> > this was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission comingfrom >> > my backseater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt andI >> > had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. >> > >> > "Center, Aspen 20, you got a groundspeed readout for us?" Therewas a >> > longer than normal pause.... >> > >> > "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots" >> > >> > "No further inquiries were heard on that frequency" > > ~~~~~~~~~~ > >> > In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reportedreceiving a >> > request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000ft). >> > >> > The incredulous controller, with some disdain in his voice, asked, "How >> > do you plan to get up to 60,000 feet? >> > >> > The pilot (obviously a sled driver), responded, " We don't plan togo up >> > >> > to it, we plan to go down to it." >> > >> > He was cleared..... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:12:34 -0800 From: Tony Dinkel Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES >It was at that precise moment I realized Walt andI >> > had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. Was that Walt Ray by chance? td ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:24:13 -0500 (EST) From: David Allison Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Tony: I think you mean Walt Watson; Walt Ray was the A-12 pilot who was killed after ejecting from 928. - D - David Allison webmaster@habu.org S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Tony Dinkel wrote: > >It was at that precise moment I realized Walt andI > >> > had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. > > Was that Walt Ray by chance? > > td > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:14:05 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES David Allison wrote: > > Tony: > > I think you mean Walt Watson; Walt Ray was the A-12 pilot who > was killed after ejecting from 928. > > - D - > > David Allison > webmaster@habu.org > > S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T > tm > / \ > / \ > _/ ___ \_ > ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ > \__/ \___/ \__/ > > www.habu.org > The OnLine Blackbird Museum > > On Wed, 21 Mar 2001, Tony Dinkel wrote: > > > >It was at that precise moment I realized Walt andI > > >> > had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. > > > > Was that Walt Ray by chance? > > > > td > > Yeah, I think he was referring to pilot Brian Shul(sp?) and Walt Watson, GIB. I have the Sled Driver but decided not to purchase the next one they wrote. Price was just too high for me. Al ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:33 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES wayne binkley wrote: > > << > ABSOLUTELY TRUE (probably) "SLED DRIVER" STORIES >> > > >> > In his book," Sled Driver," SR- 71/ Blackbird pilot Brian Shulwrites: > >> > > >> > "I'll always remember a certain radio exchange that occurred oneday as > >> > Walt (his backseater) and I were screaming across SouthernCalifornia > >> > 13 miles high. > >> > We were monitoring various radio transmissions from other aircraftas > we > >> > >> > entered Los Angeles airspace." >> > > >> > "Though they didn't really control us, they did monitor ourmovement > >> > across their scope. I heard a Cessna ask for a readout of its > >> > groundspeed. >> > >> > "90 knots" Center replied. >> > > >> > Moments later, a Twin Beech required the same. "120 knots," Center > >> > answered. >> > > >> > "We weren't the only ones proud of our groundspeed that day.. as > almost > >> > instantly an F-18 smugly transmitted, "Ah, Center, Dusty 52requests > >> > groundspeed readout." >> > > >> > "There was a slight pause, then the response, "525 knots on the > ground, > >> > Dusty". >> > > >> > "Another silent pause. As I was thinking to myself how ripe a > situation > >> > this was, I heard a familiar click of a radio transmission comingfrom > >> > my backseater. It was at that precise moment I realized Walt andI > >> > had become a real crew, for we were both thinking in unison. >> > > >> > "Center, Aspen 20, you got a groundspeed readout for us?" Therewas a > >> > longer than normal pause.... >> > >> > "Aspen, I show 1,742 knots" >> > > > >> > "No further inquiries were heard on that frequency" > > > ~~~~~~~~~~ > > >> > In another famous SR-71 story, Los Angeles Center reportedreceiving a > >> > request for clearance to FL 60 (60,000ft). >> > > >> > The incredulous controller, with some disdain in his voice, asked, > "How > >> > do you plan to get up to 60,000 feet? >> > > >> > The pilot (obviously a sled driver), responded, " We don't plan togo > up > >> > >> > to it, we plan to go down to it." >> > >> > He was cleared..... > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Some good humor but I've read them from half dozen different people so I wonder who the first one was post these. Curious Al ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 06:03:24 From: "Joshua Schneider" Subject: F-22 vs. JSF I am wondering if any one out there has any stats as far as what the JSF is supposed to be able to do, especially in the area of high alpha flight. I have had a few friends try to convice of the superiority of the JSF... I realize that right now the JSF fighters are only technology demonstrators, but I am hoping that someone can produce some numbers or even expert advice for me. My friends branch of service will remain secret. Thanks in advance for the info! Very Respectfully, C4C Joshua Schneider Jsrhino@hotmail.com C04Joshua.Schneider@usafa.af.mil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:38:47 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES beats the heck out of me,things on the list were slow and i thought some(like me)hadn't heard them yet(or read the book).brian shul's books(sled driver and the untouchables)are both in the central arkansas library system, but they are in the "jay miller collection" and are "restricted",you have to make an appointment at the "aerospace branch" to see the collection. what makes it worse is because the books are listed in the catalogue you can not get them through an "inter library loan".those not familiar with the collection(not just books) purchased from Mr.. Miller by the CALS should find time to visit this site. http://www.cals.lib.ar.us/miller/index.html wayne - ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:38:33 -0600 wayne binkley wrote: > > << > ABSOLUTELY TRUE (probably) "SLED DRIVER" STORIES >> > > >> > In his book," Sled Driver," SR- 71/ Blackbird pilot Brian Shulwrites:(etc) Some good humor but I've read them from half dozen different people so I wonder who the first one was post these. Curious Al _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:51:37 -0600 From: "Albert H. Dobyns" Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES wayne binkley wrote: > > beats the heck out of me,things on the list were slow and i thought > some(like me)hadn't heard them yet(or read the book).brian shul's books(sled > driver and the untouchables)are both in the central arkansas library system, > but they are in the "jay miller collection" and are "restricted",you have to > make an appointment at the "aerospace branch" to see the collection. what > makes it worse is because the books are listed in the catalogue you can not > get them through an "inter library loan".those not familiar with the > collection(not just books) purchased from Mr.. Miller by the CALS should > find time to visit this site. > http://www.cals.lib.ar.us/miller/index.html > wayne > Well, I hope I didn't sound too critical. I didn't know that the you need an appointment to get to see Jay's collection. It's probably better that way. Free and/or unsupervised access would probably result in stuff being taken. One time I thought of donating some of my aviation books to our local library but I wouldn't do it unless all books were cataloged as restricted. Our library has the usual alarm system that goes off if you take a book out without check it out first. But sometimes these things fail. I once saw Jay on tv in an tv newscast about Skunk Work black planes or maybe it was something else. I remember seeing several racks filled with books and an F-16 canopy too! Sure wish I had the opportunity back then to see his collection. I think he has or had almost every issue of Janes All the World's Aircraft and these were first editions I think. Some of the early one are rare and expensive. Somewhere in a box I still have an issue of Aerophile or is it Aerofile. It has a great article on the F-107 and several photos of the Blackbirds. I wish I could have found more of them. Al ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:05:26 -0800 From: "T. Toth" Subject: RE: F-22 vs. JSF These aircraft are suposed to complement one another not compete. The F-22 is designed almost exclusively for air-superiority where as the JSF's air-to-air performance is almost secondary (it is supposed to replace the F-16, A-10 and Harrier, and for eg. in the case of the British would be complemented by the Typhoon). In addition to this the JSF is a cheap figther with emphasis on low acquisition and maintenance costs and in a lot of instances, easely available enhancements to performance (eg. stealth) have been abandonned to reduce these costs. The F-22 will be much stealthier (RCS 0,005 sq.m.) than all versions of the JSF (theselves having different RCS but at least 0.01 requirement is for -30dB). The F-22 radar will be better (based on same design but much more powerfull. Apparently system integration and data fusion will be better on JSF probably just because it is newer).And as far as manoeuvrability is concerned the F-22 will be better(JSF is only supposed to be capable of -3g/+8g). Concerning the AOA it seems requirements where ; F-22 60+ deg. AOA, anf for JSF 20+deg AOA. Both have reached theirrequirenments. The F-22 even had to perform extreme manouevers and High AOA with central weapon bays open (once again showing emphasis on air-to-air combat. I Hope this helps. PS: just a stupid question but, I assume that the STOVL version of JSF will be capable of a much higher AOA. Is this correct? Timothy - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of Joshua Schneider Sent: March 22, 2001 6:03 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: F-22 vs. JSF I am wondering if any one out there has any stats as far as what the JSF is supposed to be able to do, especially in the area of high alpha flight. I have had a few friends try to convice of the superiority of the JSF... I realize that right now the JSF fighters are only technology demonstrators, but I am hoping that someone can produce some numbers or even expert advice for me. My friends branch of service will remain secret. Thanks in advance for the info! Very Respectfully, C4C Joshua Schneider Jsrhino@hotmail.com C04Joshua.Schneider@usafa.af.mil _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 17:40:39 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: "SLED DRIVER" STORIES the CALS paid a lot of money for Mr..Millers collection and i agree with their rules so as to keep the integrity of the collection intact.they have very strict rules(below) wayne General Information and Usage Regulations The Jay Miller Aviation History Collection is a large and comprehensive collection of aviation and aerospace historical records. Aviation and aerospace scholars and researchers are invited to use available portions of the collection. Reference Services The Central Arkansas Library System and the Aerospace Education Center actively encourage and promote use of the Jay Miller Aviation History Collection. Some reference services are available during the hours noted above. For researchers doing extensive research, an appointment is necessary. Reference inquiries are accepted by e-mail, telephone, and correspondence. If unable to access the library, consult the Aerospace branch library director for help. The collection has not yet been fully processed and, unfortunately, the library does not have staff enough available to answer any except specific research inquiries. A fee is charged for all research and is confined to a limit of one-half hour per research request. Fees are explained in CALS' Patron Copy Request Form. Current charges: in-state fee $5.00 + $.50 per copy; out-of-state fee $10.00 + $.50 per copy Access The collection is available to researchers who are in compliance with rules of access designed to protect archival material for use by future generations. Researchers must complete a registration form on initial visit and leave a driver's license at the circulation desk (to be returned at end of visit). The registration form includes a statement of agreement to abide by the department's regulations, which researchers are required to read, understand, and agree to before the collection is used. The Miller Collection stack area is closed to the public. Materials must be used in the area designated by archives staff. Only items necessary for research are allowed in the research/study area. Researchers are not allowed to take outer coats, briefcases, back packs, handbags, books, etc., to the research table. We provide an area for the storage ofsuch items. Notebooks or other materials taken to the research/study table must be approved by the staff and may be inspected by the staff at the circulation desk before the researcher leaves the library. Pencils must be used. Pens are not allowed. Pencils and scratch paper are available at the public access computer area. Personal computers and tape recorders may be used for taking notes provided their use does not disturb other library patrons. Use of such equipment is subject to approval by the branch director. Scanners are not permitted. Access to the collection does not constitute procurement of permission to publish, reproduce, exhibit, broadcast, or electronically disseminate collection materials. Permission must be obtained by separate agreement with Aerospace Education Center and the Central Arkansas Library System. Researchers are responsible for observing all U.S. and international copyright regulations. No food or drinks are permitted in the library. Reprographics There are copying restrictions on bound and fragile materials. The branch director reserves the right to restrict reproduction of collection materials due to their physical condition or legal requirements. Reproductions of materials in the collection may be made for personal research only. Permission to publish, reproduce, exhibit, broadcast, or disseminate, including electronic formats, must be obtained by separate agreement with Aerospace Education Center and the Central Arkansas Library System. Permission from any and all copyright holder(s) must be obtained by the researcher. Researchers are responsible for observing all U.S. and international copyright regulations. ©1998 Central Arkansas Library System _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:29:55 -0600 From: "Robert S. Hopkins, III" Subject: Miller Collection The many guidelines and restrictions in place to use the materials in the Miller collection are comparable to those at presidential libraries, the National Archives, the Library of Congress, and similar venues. They may seem restrictive, but really aren't. Although it would be nice to browse the stacks just to see what's there, this isn't allowed anywhere (of which I am aware). All in all, these guidelines prevent theft, which is sadly, widespread. If there is a disadvantage to scholars wishing to use the materials in the Miller collection, it is the location of the library itself. Travel to or from major cities such as Dallas or D.C. or Seattle is generally easier and less expensive than a trip to Arkansas, making it problematic to use the material on a regular basis. I was privileged to have unrestricted access to the library (and Jay Miller's hospitality) while researching my KC-135 book for Aerofax. It is a superb collection, including many antiquarian books of considerable importance and value. I am told that there are only 75 possible complete sets of Janes' AWA (only 75 copies of the first edition were printed); the Miller collection does indeed have one such complete set. Robert Hopkins ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 10:01:20 EST From: JNiessen@aol.com Subject: Miller Collection Hi All, I'm very, very late getting into this discussion and really don't know what's going on! However, I'd like to mention the following...based on what little I've been able to gather from Bob Hopkins' note and one or two others that have appeared in my mail. Hopefully, this will clarify the collection's history and give rationale to the facility security issues... In 1992 I sold my library--collected over a period of about 40 years--to the Arkansas Aviation Historical Society (via Little Rock businessman Richard Holbert) at fair market value. It included about 6,000 volumes, about 100,000 periodicals, about twenty four-drawer filing cabinets, about 250,000 photographic images (including negs, transparencies, and prints), and a very large artifact collection (including a Norden bomb sight, an encapsulated B-58 ejection seat, the exhaust nozzle from a Thiokol XLR99, and other aeronautical bits and pieces). The oldest book in the collection dated to 1784 (on the Montgolfiers) and there were complete sets of Jane's (at the time, thought to be the only complete, original, first edition set in private hands in the world), The Aircraft Year Book, all Putnams, The Observer's Book of Aircraft (back to the very first in '42), and the Docavia series, to name just a few. When the collection was moved, it weighed approximately 21 tons. The Aerospace Education Center was the eventual destination. The Miller library was moved there from Arlington, Texas, when the AEC, located at the Little Rock airport, finally was completed in 1996. As you might guess, staffing the collection and getting it organized was an immediate and difficult problem. Compounding the problem was the fact the allocated space could not begin to accommodate all of it. As a result, three things were tackled first...the books were catalogued and shelved, the magazines were catalogued and shelved, and the printed photographs were catalogued and organized. Those tasks, as I write, are about 75% complete, but there is still a lot of work to be done. The extensive general reference files, which include the David Anderton, Vinko Dolson, Pete Bulban, Joe Nieto, and many other smaller personal collections, have not yet been touched...and they make up the majority of the seminal references in the library. The security issue has been a difficult one for the library to accommodate. The primary problem, as you might guess, is understaffing. There is never enough money to accommodate everything and everyone, and thus the Central Arkansas Library System (ably headed by Dr. Bobby Roberts...who is a good guy with a strong interest in aviation and aviation history) is forced to work with the collection as time and manpower permit. At the moment, Rob Seibert is the main guy working in the collection and he is slowly and methodically trying, as I write, to get the slide collection (about 125,000 images) organized. It probably will be several years yet before the main reference files (mostly in storage in a separate building) are tackled. Thus, with just one person on hand and his time being spent primarily in organizing the collection, it is always awkward when a researcher shows up without prior arrangement. And that does happen. Fortunately, the AEC usually will accommodate such folks. For what it's worth, if anyone reading this lives in the Little Rock area and has the interest and the time, I'm sure Rob and Bobby would be more than happy to entertain utilizing some volunteer manpower in order to get cataloguing moving along at a faster clip. As to the various rules and regulations, there's little I can say except to note that in today's society, such things unfortunately are required...and are now standard operating procedure in libraries throughout the world. I don't like it any more than you do. I much prefer to trust folks and leave them to their own devices...but one can't do that in a public institution such as the Aerospace Education Center. It's just not realistic. In the meantime, the library continues to grow. Since the AEC took over the collection in 1992, they have seen to it that money is available for book acquisitions, magazine subscriptions, and the acquisition of important artifacts. During the next two weeks, for instance, I will be moving a collection of approximately 750 aviation books and several thousand vintage aviation magazines and other odds and ends to Little Rock, along with a sizable collection of newly arrived aviation photos and other miscellanea. Additionally, for those of you who are interested, the majority of the materials that have been utilized in my books now are on file in Little Rock, including my Skunk Works references and all associated photos. Sometime over the next six months I will be moving my X-Planes files to Little Rock, as well. Finally, let me mention one other thing. The principals involved in the AEC are vitally interested in its mission and success. They are always looking for support at any and all levels. From donations (artifacts, cash!, etc.) to manpower, they will do whatever it takes to make your contribution worthy of your thoughtfulness. And because the AEC is a 501C3 tax exempt entity, there are significant advantages to working with them as far as the IRS is concerned. Any questions or comments, please feel free to write me. All the best, Jay Miller ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V10 #8 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. 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