From: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com (skunk-works-digest) To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V10 #24 Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Sender: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Errors-To: owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Precedence: bulk skunk-works-digest Monday, July 2 2001 Volume 10 : Number 024 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** RE: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? An-225 / US Spyplane in China Re: skunk-works-digest V10 #23 Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China Re: YF-113G Re: YF-113G Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: YF-113G Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 10:41:18 -0400 From: "Morris, Andrew" Subject: RE: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? There were a few flights of AN-124s to Niagara Falls airport. One delivered a train locomotive! I didn't get to see it but a buddy in the NYANG said it really was BIG. Thunder over Niagara Air show at the NF ANG/AFRES base this weekend. Andy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 08:05:47 -0700 From: "Jon Price (PJ)" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? I first saw an AN-124 at the one-off International Air Show and Exhibition, Air-Space America 1988, at Brown Field, just south of San Diego, Ca. You are right, it is BIG. Late in the day, they did a flight demo. They took off, and at an altitude not much more than the wingspan of the a/c, rolled into appx. a 60 degree bank, and did an extremely tight 360 turn. They flew for about 15 minutes, never exceeding an altitude of 500'. The a/c is so big and due to its size, appears to be flying so slow, that most of us thought that it would just fall out of the sky! Saw its even BIGGER brother, the AN-224 six engine version, a few years later at Salinas, CA. Airshow. Most impressive aircraft. PJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: Morris, Andrew To: Sent: Friday, June 29, 2001 07:41 Subject: RE: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? > There were a few flights of AN-124s to Niagara Falls airport. One delivered > a train locomotive! > > I didn't get to see it but a buddy in the NYANG said it really was BIG. > > Thunder over Niagara Air show at the NF ANG/AFRES base this weekend. > > Andy > > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:22:52 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? AN-124's fly all over the world where there is a need to transport oversize and/or heavy payloads.they transport a lot of oil drillig gear from texas to where ever.few "commercial" acft can carry the payload and land on some of the strips that it can,but if you think it is big check out the AN-225,which is a AN-124 "condor" with new inboard wing sections to carry 2 more engines,it has been "stretched" 50 feet has more landing gear tires and was built to cary the Russian space shuttle"buran"(for which the tail was modified) here is one URL for some pictures. wayne http://www.netmontage.co.uk/airspeed/pix/mryia/ _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:29:33 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? it is my under standing that the EP-3E will be flown to okinawa for reassembly and repair. then it might be flown back to the states for more work.lockheed built the plane and i believe "E" systems in texas installed most of the electronics.in any case it is still on hainan island,to the best of my knowledge.believe me it will be on CNN when it leaves.satellites are keeping an "eye" on it and the world will know when it is gone. wayne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:47:49 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? the Lockheed Engineers who inspected the EP-3 at Hainan said it could be repaired there and flown out to a repair facility for further work(the USAF calls this a "one time flight" and is usually done with minimum crew,and i flew many a C-130 from vietnam to taiwan that was in bad shape). just from what i have seen and heard(read) i don't believe it has any serious structural damage,and pulling the props,then the engines,are routine and done in the field all the time.wings and rudders,and elevators are made to be replaced and are simply bolted only.it does require re-rigging afterward but this is no big deal.if they don't find some major damage it will fly again. they only have eleven of them and they are expensive. wayne _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jun 2001 12:21:57 -0700 From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? I got to go aboard the AN-225 when it was in OKC in 1990. I remember the flight deck had six stations, pilot, copilot and four flight engineers. I'll never forget the carpet on the flight deck - it was this crazy blue/green/orange disco shag carpet that looked straight out of the 70s!!!! And yes, everything about that plane is big. I have a photo of the -225 lined up with a C-5, C-141 and C-130 (obligitory Lockheed content) and it asbolutely dwarfs all of them. Greg ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:20:20 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? At 04:29 PM 6/29/01, you wrote: >it is my under standing that the EP-3E will be flown to okinawa for >reassembly and repair. then it might be flown back to the states for more >work. Last reports sez the China Govt. WOULD NOT allow it to be flown out. and insisted that it some other way be found. AND they would NOT allow a US military aircraft into their airspace, so that leaves out the C-5 and the only thing left is the An-124. One is already on the ground and the other is supposed to be headed there once the hulk is ready. IMHO: its a way for them to "save Face", making the US follow their wishes.... http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/06/25/navy.china.plane/index.html http://www.msnbc.com/local/pencilnews/110898.asp http://www.nandotimes.com/world/story/27639p-486843c.html http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/china010620_spyplane.html > lockheed built the plane and i believe "E" systems in texas installed >most of the electronics.in any case it is still on hainan island,to the best >of my knowledge.believe me it will be on CNN when it leaves.satellites are >keeping an "eye" on it and the world will know when it is gone. >wayne ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:58:54 -0400 (EDT) From: "D. Allison" Subject: An-225 / US Spyplane in China Hello, As long as we're talking Antonov heavies and US planes stuck in China, here's an article that mentions both: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1386000/1386405.stm It says they do plan on using the 225 to extract our airplane, although the article is from a week ago. BTW nice to know the world's largest jet can fly after being sidelined for 7 years. Hope we can say the same for the world's fastest... - D - David Allison webmaster@habu.org S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 15:45:39 -0700 (PDT) From: CFA3@webtv.net (C.F.A.3) Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V10 #23 >Found this searching Google. >wayne >=A0=A0=A0=A0Mysterious YF-113G Was Actually A >MiG-23 >Mikoyan MiG-23 > >"The U.S. Air Force's classified YF-113G >aircraft was a MiG-23, not an early effort to >explore radar-evading technologies, as >reported last week. The existence of the >aircraft was verified by one service official, but >a second had mistakenly identified it as a U.S. >stealth testbed that was abandoned by the >early 1980s. >The YF-113G designation was assigned to >MiG-23s -- a fighter built in the Soviet bloc that >NATO......(REMOVED, bla bla bla)..........near Tonopah >from an ``Air Force specially modified test >aircraft`` on April 26, 1984. It was thought to >be a MiG-23." > >(source: AW&ST, April 16, 2000) If my memory serves me, this is the article that started the debate to begin with. And, I believe the whole "G" designation was where the misunderstanding took place. Other than that, the YF-113 =3D Mig's is true. Dates are good, and so on. I think Michael Dornhiem is the author, and he is an excellant writer. However, Peter Merlin has stated what he knows, which is where I take the "G" info from. His personal accounts with those involved with the "G" seem well placed. Now, what I want to know is....What was the "G"? CFA3 http://community.webtv.net/CFA3/GROOMLAKEAUDUBON ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 19:49:35 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China At 04:58 PM 6/29/01 -0400, you wrote: >Hello, > >As long as we're talking Antonov heavies and US planes stuck >in China, here's an article that mentions both: > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1386000/1386405.stm > >It says they do plan on using the 225 to extract our airplane, >although the article is from a week ago. > > Oh Well, at least some of the information on the BBC is correct. But the picture they use of the P3 is a "stock" picture. But If you want Up-to-date progress reports and pictures of the whole process. http://www.pacom.mil/ep3.htm \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) I yam whaddIyam. No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message, However, A rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced. Friends, don't let friends do AOL! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:54:47 EDT From: Xelex@aol.com Subject: Re: YF-113G Well, thanks a lot to Wayne Binkley for posting the erroneous AW&ST article that misidentifies the YF-113G as a MiG-23. I have been trying to kill that story for over a year, but it keeps coming back from the dead like a vengeful revenant. Even AW&ST recently retracted the story (which was itself a retraction of an earlier story that misidentified it as a stealth prototype from the early 1980s. AW&ST, April 10 2000). Peter Merlin ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:50:37 +0200 From: Andreas Parsch Subject: Re: YF-113G On Saturday, 30. June 2001 06:54, Xelex@aol.com wrote: > Well, thanks a lot to Wayne Binkley for posting the erroneous AW&ST > article that misidentifies the YF-113G as a MiG-23. I have been > trying to kill that story for over a year, but it keeps coming back > from the dead like a vengeful revenant. Copies/quotes of the AW&ST article are available online and indexed by all search engines - your correction is not. So what do you expect ;-)) SCNR Andreas - -- US Military Aviation Designation Systems http://www.designation-systems.net/usmilav/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:11:24 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? The EP-3E IS being "flown out" as i said in my previous Email.It is being crated up and "flown" out as cargo on an AN-124 to okinawa to be reassembled and repaired. wayne >From: John Szalay >Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 16:20:20 -0400 > >At 04:29 PM 6/29/01, you wrote: > >it is my under standing that the EP-3E will be flown to okinawa for > >reassembly and repair. then it might be flown back to the states for more > >work. > > Last reports sez the China Govt. WOULD NOT allow it to be flown out. >and insisted that it some other way be found. AND they would NOT allow >a US military aircraft into their airspace, so that leaves out the C-5 >and the only thing left is the An-124. >One is already on the ground and the other is supposed to be headed there >once the hulk is ready. > >IMHO: its a way for them to "save Face", making the US follow their >wishes.... > > http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/06/25/navy.china.plane/index.html > > http://www.msnbc.com/local/pencilnews/110898.asp > > http://www.nandotimes.com/world/story/27639p-486843c.html > >http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/world/dailynews/china010620_spyplane.html > > > >lockheed built the plane and i believe "E" systems in texas installed > >most of the electronics.in any case it is still on hainan island,to the >best > >of my knowledge.believe me it will be on CNN when it leaves.satellites >are > >keeping an "eye" on it and the world will know when it is gone. > >wayne > > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:22:50 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: YF-113G your welcome. wayne >From: Xelex@aol.com >Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >Subject: Re: YF-113G >Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 00:54:47 EDT > >Well, thanks a lot to Wayne Binkley for posting the erroneous AW&ST article >that misidentifies the YF-113G as a MiG-23. I have been trying to kill >that >story for over a year, but it keeps coming back from the dead like a >vengeful >revenant. > >Even AW&ST recently retracted the story (which was itself a retraction of >an >earlier story that misidentified it as a stealth prototype from the early >1980s. AW&ST, April 10 2000). > >Peter Merlin > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 13:20:14 +0100 From: Art Hanley Subject: Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China John Szalay wrote: > > At 04:58 PM 6/29/01 -0400, you wrote: > >Hello, > > > >As long as we're talking Antonov heavies and US planes stuck > >in China, here's an article that mentions both: > > > >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1386000/1386405.stm > > > >It says they do plan on using the 225 to extract our airplane, > >although the article is from a week ago. > > > > > > Oh Well, at least some of the information on the BBC is correct. > But the picture they use of the P3 is a "stock" picture. > > But If you want Up-to-date progress reports and pictures of the whole > process. > > http://www.pacom.mil/ep3.htm Just checked and they've pulled that story (at least for now). BTW, it's the 124 not the 225 involved in the EP-3 return. Although the 225 is bigger, the 124 is easier to load, since it is designed for more general purpose work. BTW, BTW, Boeing has been using AN-124s off and on to rapidly fly engines they need quickly. I've seen them going in and out of Boeing Field on occasion. Art ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 16:18:20 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: An-225 / US Spyplane in China At 01:20 PM 6/30/01 +0100, you wrote: > > Ok this part of the site is still working. Progress reports but no pictures... http://www.pacom.mil/ep3progress.htm >John Szalay wrote: >> >> At 04:58 PM 6/29/01 -0400, you wrote: >> >Hello, >> > >> >As long as we're talking Antonov heavies and US planes stuck >> >in China, here's an article that mentions both: >> > >> >http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1386000/1386405.stm >> > >> >It says they do plan on using the 225 to extract our airplane, >> >although the article is from a week ago. >> > >> > >> >> Oh Well, at least some of the information on the BBC is correct. >> But the picture they use of the P3 is a "stock" picture. >> >> But If you want Up-to-date progress reports and pictures of the whole >> process. >> >> http://www.pacom.mil/ep3.htm > > > Just checked and they've pulled that story (at least for now). BTW, >it's the 124 not the 225 involved in the EP-3 return. Although the 225 >is bigger, the 124 is easier to load, since it is designed for more >general purpose work. BTW, BTW, Boeing has been using AN-124s off and >on to rapidly fly engines they need quickly. I've seen them going in >and out of Boeing Field on occasion. > > > > Art > > ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:01:07 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? At 04:11 PM 6/30/01, you wrote: >The EP-3E IS being "flown out" as i said in my previous Email.It is being >crated up and "flown" out as cargo on an AN-124 to okinawa to be reassembled >and repaired. >wayne > >> I,ve seen nothing about being reassembled on Okinawa, either in the media (which, I don,t trust to get anything correct anyway) or on the Pacific fleet news site. Does it makes much sense to just transfer the EP to several C-5s and fly it back to Lockheed ? I, for one, would VERY leary of allowing this aircraft to be flown in or near hostil airspace UNTIL it has been completely rebuilt AND checked inside and out for hidden transponders, listening devices and foreign transmitters. Remember this airframe has comprimised for many weeks now. Also The close up pictures of the area under the pilots side windshield and above the radome show a lot of damage. ADDED: there appears to be a typhoon sitting right about the island and the plane right now. so everything may get delayed a little. 80 MPH winds and mucho rain... \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) I yam whaddIyam. No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message, However, A rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced. Friends, don't let friends do AOL! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:18:57 -0400 From: "Weigold, Greg" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C10301.EFA777E8 Content-Type: text/plain Just heard on NPR that the fuselage is being flown out tomorrow, to Okinawa. They didn't mention the wings..... just the fuselage. Maybe too much damage to them to bother? Or, knowing the media, they just don't have their facts straight, as usual. They didn't say it would be reassembled in Okinawa, just that the Antonov would take it there.... They reported that it was scheduled for next week but that the techs/mechs had gotten done early.... Greg W John Szalay 07/01/01 22:01 Please respond to skunk-works To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com@SMTP@BlytheExchange cc: Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? At 04:11 PM 6/30/01, you wrote: >The EP-3E IS being "flown out" as i said in my previous Email.It is being >crated up and "flown" out as cargo on an AN-124 to okinawa to be reassembled >and repaired. >wayne > >> I,ve seen nothing about being reassembled on Okinawa, either in the media (which, I don,t trust to get anything correct anyway) or on the Pacific fleet news site. Does it makes much sense to just transfer the EP to several C-5s and fly it back to Lockheed ? I, for one, would VERY leary of allowing this aircraft to be flown in or near hostil airspace UNTIL it has been completely rebuilt AND checked inside and out for hidden transponders, listening devices and foreign transmitters. Remember this airframe has comprimised for many weeks now. Also The close up pictures of the area under the pilots side windshield and above the radome show a lot of damage. ADDED: there appears to be a typhoon sitting right about the island and the plane right now. so everything may get delayed a little. 80 MPH winds and mucho rain... \\ ~ ~ // ( @ @ ) -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- | john.szalay@att.net | ------------------Oooo.----------- .oooO ( ) ( ) ) / \ ( (_/ \_) I yam whaddIyam. No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message, However, A rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced. Friends, don't let friends do AOL! - ------_=_NextPart_001_01C10301.EFA777E8 Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls?

          Just heard on NPR that the fuselage is = being flown out tomorrow, to Okinawa.  They didn't mention the = wings..... just the fuselage.  Maybe too much damage to them to = bother?  Or, knowing the media, they just don't have their facts = straight, as usual.   They didn't say it would be reassembled = in Okinawa, just that the Antonov would take it there....

          They reported that it was scheduled for = next week but that the techs/mechs had gotten done early....

          Greg W




        John Szalay = <john.szalay@postoffice.worldnet.att.net>

        07/01/01 22:01
        Please respond to skunk-works
                =        =20

        To:     skunk-works@netwrx1.com@SMTP@BlytheExchange
        cc:    
        Subject:        = Re: Antonov AN-124 in = Mpls?    

          At 04:11 PM 6/30/01, you wrote:
          >The EP-3E IS being "flown = out" as i said in my previous Email.It is being
          >crated up and "flown" = out as cargo on an AN-124 to okinawa to be reassembled
          >and repaired.
          >wayne
          >
          >>

           I,ve seen nothing about being = reassembled on Okinawa, either in the media
          (which, I don,t trust to get anything = correct anyway) or on the Pacific
          fleet news site.   Does it = makes much sense to just transfer the EP to
          several C-5s and fly it back to = Lockheed ?

           I, for one, would VERY leary of = allowing this aircraft to be flown
          in or near hostil airspace UNTIL it = has been completely rebuilt AND
          checked inside and out for hidden = transponders, listening devices and
          foreign transmitters. Remember this = airframe has comprimised for
          many weeks now.

           Also  The close up pictures = of the area under the pilots side windshield and above the radome show = a lot of damage.

           ADDED:  there appears to be = a typhoon sitting right about the island
          and the plane right now. so = everything may get delayed a little.
           80 MPH winds and mucho = rain...

                   &nb= sp;         \\  ~ ~  = //
                   &nb= sp;          (  @ = @  )
                 = - -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo----------
                = |        = john.szalay@att.net       |
                 = - ------------------Oooo.-----------
                   &nb= sp;     .oooO     (   = )
                   &nb= sp;     (   = )      ) /
                   &nb= sp;      \ (      = (_/
                   &nb= sp;       = \_)           I yam = whaddIyam.

          No trees were harmed in the = transmission of this message, However,
          A rather large number of electrons = were temporarily inconvenienced.
                   &nb= sp;  Friends, don't let friends do AOL!



- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C10301.EFA777E8-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:33:18 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? do you not recall Lockheed engineers/techreps saying it could be repaired and flown out of Hainan? if it was so badly damaged this would not be possible.the level of maint. available in okinawa is very high and with the help of some various "systems engineers", IMHO it is not necessary to fly the airframe back to the states(in C-5s) IF the repairs can be done at okinawa or at least enough work done to clear the plane for flight(IMHO it will be a long time before it flies another"mission").i think to save"face" this acft will fly again. wayne >From: John Szalay >Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >Subject: Re: Antonov AN-124 in Mpls? >Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:01:07 -0400 > >At 04:11 PM 6/30/01, you wrote: > >The EP-3E IS being "flown out" as i said in my previous Email.It is being > >crated up and "flown" out as cargo on an AN-124 to okinawa to be >reassembled > >and repaired. > >wayne > > > >> > > I,ve seen nothing about being reassembled on Okinawa, either in the media >(which, I don,t trust to get anything correct anyway) or on the Pacific >fleet news site. Does it makes much sense to just transfer the EP to >several C-5s and fly it back to Lockheed ? > > I, for one, would VERY leary of allowing this aircraft to be flown >in or near hostil airspace UNTIL it has been completely rebuilt AND >checked inside and out for hidden transponders, listening devices and >foreign transmitters. Remember this airframe has comprimised for >many weeks now. > > Also The close up pictures of the area under the pilots side windshield >and above the radome show a lot of damage. > > ADDED: there appears to be a typhoon sitting right about the island >and the plane right now. so everything may get delayed a little. > 80 MPH winds and mucho rain... > > \\ ~ ~ // > ( @ @ ) > -----------oOOo-(_)-oOOo---------- > | john.szalay@att.net | > ------------------Oooo.----------- > .oooO ( ) > ( ) ) / > \ ( (_/ > \_) I yam whaddIyam. > >No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message, However, >A rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced. > Friends, don't let friends do AOL! > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V10 #24 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner