From owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Mon Sep 30 09:57:09 2002 Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 18:41:24 -0500 From: skunk-works-digest Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V11 #5 skunk-works-digest Sunday, September 29 2002 Volume 11 : Number 005 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** YF-12 magazine article YF-12 magazine article [none] Re: Antigravity Research Outing the Ox Lou Schalk is Gone Roadrunners website. Re: Roadrunners website. Re: Lou Schalk is Gone Re: Lou Schalk is Gone Lou Schalk article Funeral services for Lou Schalk Hmmm... Re: Hmmm... Re: Hmmm... Re: Hmmm... Re: Hmmm... Re: Hmmm... Still no activity Re: Still no activity Re: Still no activity Re: Still no activity RE: Still no activity RE: Still no activity ABL in Iraq?? Re: ABL in Iraq?? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: YF-12 magazine article I was in the local bookstore yesterday and noticed the September issue of Airpower features the YF-12. Lots of photos that most of us have probably seen before. Twenty two pages of text and photos, eight of them in color. GregD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 08:57:31 -0700 (PDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: YF-12 magazine article I was in the local bookstore yesterday and noticed the September issue of Airpower features the YF-12. Lots of photos that most of us have probably seen before. Twenty two pages of text and photos, eight of them in color. GregD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 10:49:46 -0700 From: Lee Markland Subject: [none] A long-time secret project has been anti-gravity machines. A small belated admission has come out from Boeing. Interesting, that they refer to the Boeing division, as the Phantom Works."Boeing challenges the laws of physics", Financial Times, 7/29/02 Not mentioned are the secret anti-gravity machine projects of the Fermi Labs, an adjunct of Rockefeller's University of Chicago. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 15:46:32 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: > A long-time secret project has been anti-gravity machines. I can't wait for "them" to succeed. Nor should anyone else. Not, in the long run, that I would rule out the possibility that "they" might. There's clearly still a lot about the way the universe works that we don't understand and, who knows, antigravity or something like it might be lurking in there someplace. But I'm not going to call my broker about this just yet. > Not mentioned are the secret anti-gravity machine projects of the > Fermi Labs, an adjunct of Rockefeller's University of > Chicago. There must be a reason for that. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 17:35:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Antigravity Research Lee Markland wrote: >A long-time secret project has been anti-gravity machines. A small belated >admission has come out from Boeing. [...] >"Boeing challenges the laws of physics", Financial Times, 7/29/02 This, as well as similar articles on the net (BBC, SpaceDaily, etc.) are all based on (another) Nick Cook article in Jane's Defence Weekly, available at: http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jdw/jdw020729_1_n.shtml It only reiterates that some companies are looking into such questions, on the remote chance that something viable might come from it. At this point, nobody has been able to verify or substantiate Podkletnov's claims, though. Until then, I consider this nothing very news-worthy. >Interesting, that they refer to the Boeing division, as the Phantom Works. The "Phantom Works" were a division of McDonnell Douglas, and are now part of Boeing (since the take-over/merger). The name is based on McDonnell's history of USN "ghost" aircraft, which includes their very first one, the Phantom, which was followed by the Banshee, the Demon, and finally the Phantom II, and of course is also inspired by the original "Skunk Works" name. Nothing sinister there... - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net 415 Gute Street or: schnars@ais.org Owosso, MI 48867-4410 or: Andreas@Aerospace-History.net Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.Aerospace-History.net - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 11:17:12 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Outing the Ox http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ho/frus/johnsonlb/x/9015.htm 11. Memorandum From Director of Central Intelligence McCone to the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (Carter)/1/ Washington, February 10, 1964. /1/Source: Central Intelligence Agency, DCI (McCone) Files, DCI McCone Memoranda, 01 March 1962-30 April 1965, Box 9. Secret. Two subjects on which we must reach an agreed policy decision are (a) the surfacing of the Ox and (b) the management of NRO. With reference to the former, I reviewed the "visibility" of the Ox on Friday./2/ I find that Drs. Wheelon and Maxey/3/ are agreed that the improved Soviet radar capability makes the Ox visible both to the long range search radar and the radars associated with the surface-to-air missile systems. Therefore it is impossible to fly the Ox over Soviet territory without detection. Originally it was thought--and as recently as 18 months ago--that the Soviet radar would not pick up the Ox. The findings of Dr. Wheelon disprove this and this fact bears heavily on the future use of the Ox. /2/February 7. /3/Albert D. (Bud) Wheelon, Deputy Director for Science and Technology, Central Intelligence Agency. Jackson Maxey, Chief of the Special Projects Staff, Central Intelligence Agency. If the decision is made by higher authority not to use the Ox for the purposes originally planned--i.e., clandestine surveillance of the Soviet Union--then it must be considered as a "quick reaction" surveillance asset to be used in times of danger, under circumstances of heightened tension, with the full appreciation of the risks and the provocations. This raises the question of whether in its reconnaissance configuration it should continue as a CIA asset or be turned over to the Air Force. This question must be examined carefully and, quite naturally, the use of the Oxcart over non-Soviet denied territory such as Communist China, Southeast Asia and even Cuba should be taken into consideration. The above problem is one of the important questions associated with surfacing the Ox--probably/4/ the most important long term question from the standpoint of CIA, our budget, etc. /4/The word "probably" is inserted by hand, and the words "but is not" are crossed out. I feel it must at some time be surfaced because of the military versions. Also we are sure to have an accident or forced landing at a public airport, or a "leak", which will have the effect of surfacing. Timing is of importance as well as method, and these should be studied and an in-house decision reached for guidance in talking with the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense and Director, NRO and higher authority. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 19:52:25 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: Lou Schalk is Gone Sad news to report. I just learned from Doug Nelson, curator of the FTHF Museum at Edwards AFB, that Lou Schalk passed away on Friday, August 16. Lou was a victim of lukemia. I think that most members of this list know who Lou was. For those who might not know, Luu had a long career as a test pilot, and was the first man to fly the original Lockheed A-12 Blackbird. Once again, the skunk sheds another tear. So long Lou..................................... PJ - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:06:28 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: Roadrunners website. Just learned of this website today. Maybe its new to more than just me. http://www.roadrunnersinternationale.com/index.html PJ - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 04:28 +0100 (BST) From: mark@markr.net (Mark Rousell) Subject: Re: Roadrunners website. It's certainly new to me. > Just learned of this website today. Maybe its new to more than just me. > > http://www.roadrunnersinternationale.com/index.html In fact it's quite an informative site. Thanks for letting us know about it. MarkR ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 11:28:21 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: Re: Lou Schalk is Gone PJ: Please pass along condolences from myself and I'm sure the rest of the list here. George >Sad news to report. I just learned from Doug Nelson, curator of the FTHF >Museum at Edwards AFB, that Lou Schalk passed away on Friday, August 16. >Lou was a victim of lukemia. I think that most members of this list know >who Lou was. For those who might not know, Luu had a long career as a test >pilot, and was the first man to fly the original Lockheed A-12 Blackbird. >Once again, the skunk sheds another tear. > >So long Lou..................................... > >PJ ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 17:21:29 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: Re: Lou Schalk is Gone Will do George. PJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: George Kasica To: Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2002 09:28 Subject: Re: Lou Schalk is Gone > PJ: > > Please pass along condolences from myself and I'm sure the rest of the > list here. > > George > > > >Sad news to report. I just learned from Doug Nelson, curator of the FTHF > >Museum at Edwards AFB, that Lou Schalk passed away on Friday, August 16. > >Lou was a victim of lukemia. I think that most members of this list know > >who Lou was. For those who might not know, Luu had a long career as a test > >pilot, and was the first man to fly the original Lockheed A-12 Blackbird. > >Once again, the skunk sheds another tear. > > > >So long Lou..................................... > > > >PJ > > ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 > Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX > http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA > georgek@netwrx1.com > ICQ #12862186 > > Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ > > S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T > tm > / \ > / \ > _/ ___ \_ > ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ > \__/ \___/ \__/ > > www.habu.org > The OnLine Blackbird Museum > - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 19:37:35 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: Lou Schalk article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42439-2002Aug20.html. A good article on Lou's career. PJ - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 10:20:17 -0400 (EDT) From: "D. Allison" Subject: Funeral services for Lou Schalk Hello, For those of you who wanted to pay your last respects.... Services: Funeral Mass at All Souls Memorial Episcopal Church, 2300 Cathedral Avenue N. W., Washington, DC 20008 Phone 202-232-4244. Monday, Aug 26, 2002 11 am. Graveside Services: West Point, NY Wed. Aug 28, 2002 10 a.m. In lieu of flowers: Donations in Lou Schalk's name to the National Air & Space Museum's Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center, P. O. Box 23197, Washington, DC 20026. Sincerely, - D - David Allison webmaster@habu.org S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 13:24:05 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lednicer Subject: Hmmm... In the August 26th Aviation Week, there is an article on page 58-59, entitled "Inflight Upset Training Puts Muscle Behind the Book Work," in which an AvWeek editor flies the Veridian variable-stability Learjet 25. His host pilot is J. Russell Easter. In his bio, it says "He later spent 10 years as an Air Force test pilot, flight testing among others, the predecessor of the F-117 Stealth Fighter, and a one of the precursors fo the B-2 bomber." The first reference would be to the Have Blue, but I don't see him in the pilots list. On the AF Museum web site, he is listed as a Tacit Blue pilot. What then are the other B-2 precursors? -David Lednicer ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:25:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: Hmmm... Hi David, Hope you are well! >In the August 26th Aviation Week, there is an article on page 58-59, >entitled "Inflight Upset Training Puts Muscle Behind the Book Work," in >which an AvWeek editor flies the Veridian variable-stability Learjet 25. >His host pilot is J. Russell Easter. In his bio, it says "He later spent >10 years as an Air Force test pilot, flight testing among others, the >predecessor of the F-117 Stealth Fighter, and a one of the precursors fo >the B-2 bomber." >The first reference would be to the Have Blue, but I don't see him in the >pilots list. On the AF Museum web site, he is listed as a Tacit Blue >pilot. What then are the other B-2 precursors? In Paul F. Crickmore's "Nighthawk, F-117 Stealth Fighter" -- the only reference that I have handy right now -- you can read on page 22, describing the situation of the HAVE BLUE project after the crash of HB 1001: "Gen. Stafford directed that another Air Force pilot join the program as backup pilot. Consequently Russ Eastor, an instructor at the Air Force Test Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base joined the team. Ray Gowdy was also recruited in as a backup pilot from Lockheed. Both pilots provided superb support for the remainder of the Have Blue program, but neither would actually fly the aircraft. All flights on aircraft number two would be made by Lieutenant Colonel Ken Dyson." So "Russ Eastor" is probably "J. Russell Easter", and no, he apparently did not fly either of the two HAVE BLUE test aircraft, nor did he fly any of the 5 YF-117A SENIOR TREND prototypes/pre-series aircraft -- at least he isn't listed in any Bandit list that I have seen. With regards to the implication that there were more than one (maybe still classified) precursors to the B-2 bomber -- besides the single TACIT BLUE aircraft -- I suppose that this is (IMNSHO) either an unsubstantiated guess by the writer, intentional or unintentional misinformation (see HAVE BLUE pilot claim error), or simply bad writing style. There might have been other B-2 precursors, but I'll be damned if they are publicly known or declassified at this time. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net 415 Gute Street or: schnars@ais.org Owosso, MI 48867-4410 or: Andreas@Aerospace-History.net Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.Aerospace-History.net - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 09:41:03 +0100 From: Adrian Mann Subject: Re: Hmmm... I worked with a consultant who worked on various avionics systems on the B2 - - and she never mentioned anything about precursors. Memorable quote from her was "If it hasn9t got artificial intelligence, its not engineering." Make of that what you will! Adrian Mann On 11/9/02 11:25 pm, "Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl" wrote: > Hi David, > > Hope you are well! > >> In the August 26th Aviation Week, there is an article on page 58-59, >> entitled "Inflight Upset Training Puts Muscle Behind the Book Work," in >> which an AvWeek editor flies the Veridian variable-stability Learjet 25. >> His host pilot is J. Russell Easter. In his bio, it says "He later spent >> 10 years as an Air Force test pilot, flight testing among others, the >> predecessor of the F-117 Stealth Fighter, and a one of the precursors fo >> the B-2 bomber." > >> The first reference would be to the Have Blue, but I don't see him in the >> pilots list. On the AF Museum web site, he is listed as a Tacit Blue >> pilot. What then are the other B-2 precursors? > > In Paul F. Crickmore's "Nighthawk, F-117 Stealth Fighter" -- the only > reference that I have handy right now -- you can read on page 22, describing > the situation of the HAVE BLUE project after the crash of HB 1001: > > "Gen. Stafford directed that another Air Force pilot join the program as > backup pilot. Consequently Russ Eastor, an instructor at the Air Force Test > Pilot School at Edwards Air Force Base joined the team. Ray Gowdy was also > recruited in as a backup pilot from Lockheed. Both pilots provided superb > support for the remainder of the Have Blue program, but neither would > actually fly the aircraft. All flights on aircraft number two would be made > by Lieutenant Colonel Ken Dyson." > > So "Russ Eastor" is probably "J. Russell Easter", and no, he apparently did > not fly either of the two HAVE BLUE test aircraft, nor did he fly any of the > 5 YF-117A SENIOR TREND prototypes/pre-series aircraft -- at least he isn't > listed in any Bandit list that I have seen. > > With regards to the implication that there were more than one (maybe still > classified) precursors to the B-2 bomber -- besides the single TACIT BLUE > aircraft -- I suppose that this is (IMNSHO) either an unsubstantiated guess > by the writer, intentional or unintentional misinformation (see HAVE BLUE > pilot claim error), or simply bad writing style. > > There might have been other B-2 precursors, but I'll be damned if they are > publicly known or declassified at this time. > > -- Andreas > > --- - --- > Andreas Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net > 415 Gute Street or: schnars@ais.org > Owosso, MI 48867-4410 or: Andreas@Aerospace-History.net > Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.Aerospace-History.net > --- - --- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 02:45:42 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: Re: Hmmm... Where was this consultant from? Kurt - ----- Original Message ----- > I worked with a consultant who worked on various avionics systems on the B2 > - and she never mentioned anything about precursors. Memorable quote from > her was "If it hasn9t got artificial intelligence, its not engineering." > Make of that what you will! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 12:19:16 +0100 From: Adrian Mann Subject: Re: Hmmm... Geographically - San Diego (ethnically Latvian) Company - Northrop - then left to become freelance engineering consultant, and then working for a major Management Consultancy, which is where I met her. I asked her about a number of programmes, but she didn't give anything away. She was visibly surprised when I mentioned "Aurora" and asked where I'd heard of it! Adrian Mann On 14/9/02 10:45 am, "Mr. K. Rudolph" wrote: > Where was this consultant from? > > Kurt > > ----- Original Message ----- >> I worked with a consultant who worked on various avionics systems on the > B2 >> - and she never mentioned anything about precursors. Memorable quote from >> her was "If it hasn9t got artificial intelligence, its not engineering." >> Make of that what you will! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 14 Sep 2002 18:23:24 +0100 From: "David" Subject: Re: Hmmm... From: "David Lednicer" > The first reference would be to the Have Blue, but I don't see him in the > pilots list. On the AF Museum web site, he is listed as a Tacit Blue > pilot. What then are the other B-2 precursors? Intriguing question David. As you know Northrop has always been adamant that there were no prototypes. Not even an engineering mock up for fit and clearance stuff. Add to this, the 900+ new processes and materials that were necessary to build the a/c and the claimed approach seems even more of a quantum leap of faith - given the scale of the ATB programme and the previous performance of the original Northrop flying wings - which let's face it, hadn't been that great to put it mildly. In the light of the Y or XB-49 performance, it seems pretty obvious that a tech demonstrator or two would have been required to convince the Pentagon brass that the control problems of the early designs had been sorted with the help of new technology FCS and that they weren't about to spend billions of tax dollars on funding a programme that would result in a bunch of hi-tech hangar queens / Dodos. Before the 2 HAVE BLUEs were built, LockMart made a scaled model to test its RCS. Scaled Composites made a 70 foot wingspan, 40% scale model B-2 for similar RCS tests. Interestingly enough, had a similar sized, manned demonstrator been built, it would be a similar order of size to the old Northrop N-9M demonstrator for the XB-35. OK that was a one third scale but close enough. The whole Tacit Blue thing is odd to me. First flew in early '82, in storage since '85 and unveiled for no obvious reason in '96. From the dates, I'd say it's pretty safe to assume that TB was funded and built during the final phase of the Carter presidency. So where are the technology demonstrators from the era of the Reagan presidency ? An eight year period of very healthy mil. funding levels. I seem to recall that we've discussed this many years ago, but it's certainly worth another brainstorming session. Here's a question: on the basis of prior performance, would anyone here have gone for the flying wing approach for the ATB without being assured the problems were all in the rear view mirror ? And what better way than a tech demonstrator or two ? Comments welcome Best David ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 17:22:29 -0400 From: James Stevenson Subject: Still no activity I sent a message but it did not appear. Jim Stevenson ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2002 16:29:04 -0500 From: "thomsona" Subject: Re: Still no activity Try, try again. > I sent a message but it did not appear. > > Jim Stevenson BTW, what's your next book going to be about? ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:20:21 -0700 From: Art Hanley Subject: Re: Still no activity Here's some activity... There's been no change in R&D, no change in software and except for SDB so that something will fit in the bay, no change in planned weapons, but as of Sept 17, the F-22 is now officially the F/A-22. Art thomsona wrote: > > Try, try again. > > > I sent a message but it did not appear. > > > > Jim Stevenson > > BTW, what's your next book going to be about? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:29:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: Re: Still no activity Maybe they just figure it out if you can open the cockpit and throw some stones, you can assigned the extra "A" :) May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@caltech.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting" Sun Tzu, The Art of War On Sun, 22 Sep 2002, Art Hanley wrote: > Here's some activity... > > There's been no change in R&D, no change in software and except for SDB > so that something will fit in the bay, no change in planned weapons, but > as of Sept 17, the F-22 is now officially the F/A-22. > > > > Art > > thomsona wrote: > > > > Try, try again. > > > > > I sent a message but it did not appear. > > > > > > Jim Stevenson > > > > BTW, what's your next book going to be about? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 20:48:24 +0100 From: "Gavin Payne" Subject: RE: Still no activity Maybe they can say "it can bomb too, so give us more money" :) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of Wei-Jen Su Sent: 23 September 2002 20:30 To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: Still no activity Maybe they just figure it out if you can open the cockpit and throw some stones, you can assigned the extra "A" :) May the Force be with you Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu@caltech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 09:31:39 -0700 From: Joy Richards Subject: RE: Still no activity Perhaps this is interesting... I've been looking around at various military sites seeing what might be new and online. I'd originally thought that the shift in the Executive departments might have resulted in a retraction of the position where governmental agencies are online and making information available. Well, there are a number of them out there. Nothing classified, but lots of interest. While looking through the Air Force Research Lab Propulsion site, I saw something on directed energy within that family. http://www.pr.afrl.af.mil/ http://www.de.afrl.af.mil/ (parent site) http://www.de.afrl.af.mil/factsheets/abl.html and a few others: http://www.vs.afrl.af.mil/ (the HAARP program is within this directorate, as well as balloons and satellites) http://www.vs.afrl.af.mil/Factsheets/ http://www.va.afrl.af.mil/FA/focus_areas_index.html http://www.va.afrl.af.mil/IC/ic_index.html http://www.pr.afrl.af.mil/facilities/pr_west/134.htm (one of the most interesting 'For Rent' notice I've seen..) and a few NASA sites of interest. Space Drives, anyone? http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/bpp/ http://www.grc.nasa.gov/Doc/Org_alph.htm That should be interesting for a while. Joy "I wish I had an interociter... we could interociter stuff." -Mike MST3K ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 29 Sep 2002 16:18:09 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: ABL in Iraq?? Just curious. Anyone know if the ABL is in about the same stage of development as J-Stars was at the time of the first Gulf war?? PJ - --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ Date: 29 Sep 2002 18:39:30 +0000 From: Tom Genereaux Subject: Re: ABL in Iraq?? Not even close. The airframe was just finished, integration hasn't even begun yet, much less testing. JSTARS was at least flying characterization missions at the time. On Sun, 2002-09-29 at 23:18, Jon wrote: > Just curious. Anyone know if the ABL is in about the same stage of > development as J-Stars was at the time of the first Gulf war?? > > PJ > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.372 / Virus Database: 207 - Release Date: 6/20/02 ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V11 #5 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner