From owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Fri Jul 18 23:29:06 2003 Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 21:50:29 -0500 From: skunk-works-digest Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V12 #3 skunk-works-digest Friday, July 18 2003 Volume 12 : Number 003 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: Holloman sled test Photo-curing glider Re: Holloman sled test (fwd) Re: Holloman sled test US Army, Space Brigade Toaward The Unknown - William Holden Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden NT-43A RTB photos Re: NT-43A RTB photos New Lockheed supersonic bomber design USAF Museum Trip Blak Overflights Terroristical goings on at Area 51 SR-71 Photo Spread SR-71 Det 2 hat on Ebay FW: New 1:400 Scale Models - April/May/June 2003 Please ignore last email LM Tier 3 Minus follow-on in Iraq Test.. Re: Test.. Re: Test.. Re: LM Tier 3 Minus follow-on in Iraq *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:41:57 -0700 From: Joy Subject: Re: Holloman sled test At 10:17 AM 5/2/2003, you wrote: >Any idea what this might have been about? The impact velocity and impactor >weight are kind of consistent with low-end TBMD. > >http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1361309,00.html# Try http://www.46tg.af.mil/#46th%20Test%20Group http://www.46tg.af.mil/846th%20TS.htm http://www.46tg.af.mil/tests1.htm Not a whole lot to that specific test, but there's some information on the test organizations involved. TO the listmom... because of the spam filters, my posts to the list have been bouncing. Could you please post this for me? (I'm getting in via an ISP, but my mail servers are elsewhere... if that helps) Thanks, Joy Richards ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:46:44 -0500 From: "thomsona" Subject: Photo-curing glider Now this does look a little skunky, though it comes from the UofKY: http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/02may_bigblue.htm?list127978 Note that the flight is going to be Web-followed: http://www.engr.uky.edu/bigblue/FlightWatch.htm ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 10:49:48 -0700 From: Joy Subject: Re: Holloman sled test At 10:41 AM 5/2/2003, you wrote: >Not a whole lot to that specific test, but there's some information on the >test organizations involved. > >TO the listmom... because of the spam filters, my posts to the list have >been bouncing. Could you please post this for me? > >(I'm getting in via an ISP, but my mail servers are elsewhere... if that >helps) Sorry for that, I guess it works ok, now... Anyway, check this logo out: http://www.46tg.af.mil/images/NRTFLogo.jpg That's when you click the small one at: http://www.46tg.af.mil/nrtf.htm That's the National Radar Cross Section Test Facility (NRTF) Hrmmm... now where have I heard that name? :) Joy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 14:01:39 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: (fwd) Re: Holloman sled test On Fri, 02 May 2003 10:41:57 -0700, Joy wrote: At 10:17 AM 5/2/2003, you wrote: >Any idea what this might have been about? The impact velocity and impactor >weight are kind of consistent with low-end TBMD. > >http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1361309,00.html# Try http://www.46tg.af.mil/#46th%20Test%20Group http://www.46tg.af.mil/846th%20TS.htm http://www.46tg.af.mil/tests1.htm Not a whole lot to that specific test, but there's some information on the test organizations involved. TO the listmom... because of the spam filters, my posts to the list have been bouncing. Could you please post this for me? (I'm getting in via an ISP, but my mail servers are elsewhere... if that helps) Thanks, Joy Richards ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 01:10:09 -0700 From: Joy Subject: US Army, Space Brigade Ok, it's not "skunky" but it was way out there... http://www.dtic.mil/armylink/news/May2003/a20030502spacebrigade.html I just want to know what the vacuum battle armor looks like. :) Joy ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:20:20 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: Toaward The Unknown - William Holden Hi! Not real skunky, but I'm hoping the aviation movie buffs can help out... I've got a friend of mine here (and myself) that are looking for a copy of the movie "Toward The Unknown" done in like 1956 with William Holden. I can't locate anything on the net, but I'm hoping someone might have a VHS off the TV/Cable/Satellite. Thanks alot, George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:04:14 -0700 From: Joy Subject: Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden At 07:20 PM 5/11/2003, you wrote: >Hi! > > >Not real skunky, but I'm hoping the aviation movie buffs can help >out... > >I've got a friend of mine here (and myself) that are looking for a >copy of the movie "Toward The Unknown" done in like 1956 with William >Holden. From http://www.imdb.com Toward the Unknown (1956) Directed by Mervyn LeRoy Writing credits Beirne Lay Jr. Credited cast: William Holden .... Maj. Lincoln Bond Virginia Leith .... Connie Mitchell, Gen. Banner's secretary Lloyd Nolan .... Brig. Gen. William Banner Charles McGraw .... Col. R.H.'Mickey' McKee Murray Hamilton .... Maj. Bromo Lee Paul Fix .... Lt. Gen. Bryan Shelby James Garner .... Maj./Lt. Col. Joe Craven L.Q. Jones .... 1st Lt. Sweeney, Gen. Banner's aide Bartlett Robinson .... Sen. Black Malcolm Atterbury .... Hank, X-2 Engineer Ralph Moody (I) .... H.G. Gilbert, Head of Gilbert Aircraft Co. rest of cast listed alphabetically John Daheim .... Stranger Cathy Ferrara .... Lucy Craven Rad Fulton .... Pilot Don Harvey (III) .... Jerry, Officers Club Bartender William Henry (I) .... AP Captain Robert Hover .... Pilot Les Johnson .... Pilot Carol Kelly (II) .... Debby Nelson Leigh .... Chaplain Maura Murphy .... Mrs. Sarah McKee Jon Provost .... Joe Craven Jr. Autumn Russell .... Harriet Karen Steele .... Polly Craven Bob Stratton .... Jim Will J. White .... AP Sergeant (as Will White) Jean Willes .... Carmen Major James Wilson .... Chase Pilot (more) Also Known As: Brink of Hell (1956) (UK) Runtime: Brazil:115 min Country: USA Language: English Color: Color (Warnercolor) Sound Mix: Mono (RCA Sound System) Certification: Finland:K-12 User Comments: Deb Cote (jdeitz@nycap.rr.com) New Salem, NY Date: 24 August 2001 Summary: Realistic portrayal of supersonic flight This is one good film, with great performances by William Holden and Lloyd Nolan. Also James Garner's film debut. It seems to have disappeared here in the US, although I understand it's shown occasionally in Britain. Filmed at a real airbase, it looks authentic enough that you can almost smell the jet fuel. Great history lesson on the beginning of rocket flight. The only knock is Virginia Leith, who must be one of the most untalented actresses in Hollywood history. Even scene she's in brings the film down. But Holden is, as always, great. And you're in luck - just so happens there's a copy on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3326543472&category=2321 enJoy ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 05:36:27 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden >On Sun, 11 May 2003 23:04:14 -0700, you wrote: >At 07:20 PM 5/11/2003, you wrote: > >Hi! > > > > > >Not real skunky, but I'm hoping the aviation movie buffs can help > >out... > > > >I've got a friend of mine here (and myself) that are looking for a > >copy of the movie "Toward The Unknown" done in like 1956 with William > >Holden. >is, as always, great. > >And you're in luck - just so happens there's a copy on eBay. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3326543472&category=2321 > >enJoy Unfortunately, thats just a posted....not the movie... George ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:47:47 -0700 From: Joy Subject: Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden At 03:36 AM 5/12/2003, you wrote: >>And you're in luck - just so happens there's a copy on eBay. >> >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3326543472&category=2321 >> >>enJoy >Unfortunately, thats just a posted....not the movie... Ack - sorry, it was late and I skimmed the post. Digging a bit deeper, it looks as though this has never been released on vhs or dvd and the only place this is going to show up for now is on late-night television. Joy http://www.bellx-2.com/ttu/photos/ http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/html_pgs/showbiz2.html http://www.edwards.af.mil/articles98/docs_html/splash/jun98/cover/Moviepix.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 12:15:57 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: Re: Toward The Unknown - William Holden >On Mon, 12 May 2003 09:47:47 -0700, you wrote: >At 03:36 AM 5/12/2003, you wrote: > >>And you're in luck - just so happens there's a copy on eBay. > >> > >>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3326543472&category=2321 > >> > >>enJoy > >Unfortunately, thats just a posted....not the movie... > >Ack - sorry, it was late and I skimmed the post. > >Digging a bit deeper, it looks as though this has never been released on >vhs or dvd and the only place this is going to show up for now is on >late-night television. > >Joy > >http://www.bellx-2.com/ttu/photos/ > >http://www.edwards.af.mil/gallery/html_pgs/showbiz2.html > >http://www.edwards.af.mil/articles98/docs_html/splash/jun98/cover/Moviepix.html THats what I was afraid of....hoping someone here at some point taped it....I should have but didn't... ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 00:31:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: NT-43A RTB photos Take a look at the following website: http://www.air-and-space.com/Death%20Valley%20sighting.htm You can find some nice photos and a bit of background info on one of the little things the Skunk Works have done lately. I wouldn't be surprised if this plane is based at Tonopah or Groom Lake. The main site has also some other nice photos -- especially the A-3 Skywarrior page is very nice. - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net 415 Gute Street or: Andreas@DDPSoftware.com Owosso, MI 48867-4410 or: Andreas@Aerospace-History.net Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.Aerospace-History.net - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 06:23:00 -0500 From: "Jay N. Miller" Subject: Re: NT-43A RTB photos Andreas, Many thanks. I've been following some odds and ends on this airplane for quite some time. The guys at Lockheed Martin had sent me the static photo about two years ago, and then a month or two ago an article on 737/T-43s appeared in "Air Pictorial" that included an excellent air-to-air. Definitely of great interest. Hope to provide considerably more detail in my forthcoming Vol. II of "The X-Planes". Again, thanks for sending this. All the best, Jay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 17:33:17 -0400 From: "allegrezza, george" Subject: New Lockheed supersonic bomber design Greetings all. The good folks at Lockheed Martin have leaked a new supersonic bomber design to the Jane's people. Mach 2 to Mach 4, 3000nm combat radius, 20-25K payload, and the ugliest nose you've ever seen. Check it out at: http://www.janes.com/aerospace/military/news/jdw/jdw030605_1_n.shtml As I'm sure most of you know, Jane's is a subscription site, so you'll only see an extract of the article. The JPEG is pretty poor, but you can get a good sense of the shape. Regards, George George Allegrezza ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 08:49:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: USAF Museum Trip Hi all, On Tuesday, the day before yesterday, my wife, Kathryn, and I flew in the Yankee Air Force's TC-47D/DC-3 (c/n 33048, 44-76716, N8704) from Willow Run, Ypsilanti, Michigan, to Springfield, Ohio, for a day-trip to the USAFM. We hadn't been there for a while, and they have made quite a few changes since our last visit. The new hangar is (partially) open to the public, and several new aircraft were on display, including some more or less skunky ones. The YF-117A (#781), the SR-71A (#2027, 61-7976), the U-2C (#389, 56-6722), and the D-21B (#524 according to Jay Miller/James Goodall, or #535 according to the USAFM web site) have been moved into the new hangar, where they are joined by a new Boeing (Phantom Works) X-45A, which was not very accessible at this time. That X-45A was painted in a low-viz two-tone gray color scheme, and might be a mockup or static airframe. Most markings were not discernible in that very dark hangar, but the digits "345" seem to be painted on the side of the airframe. The "weapons bay" was open. A small (about 1:50) scale layout of that hangar, which contains models of all planned aircraft, is dominated by the big bombers. The B-36 and B-47 that are already on display, will look less impressive when the Northrop B-2A static load test article -- which is currently under restoration -- is added later. Next to it, one of the two Lockheed X-35s test aircraft will apparently be displayed -- the model showed the X-35B VSTOL version. The second YF-12A (#1002, 60-6935) and the second RQ-3A Dark Star (#696) are both in the R&D Hangar, together with many other very interesting planes, like the sole surviving XB-70A, and many X-Planes, drones and prototypes, but there was not enough time to go to that hangar, during this trip. Other Skunk Works-related planes displayed in various locations, include one each: P-80R, F-80C, T-33A and NT-33A Shooting Star, F-94A and F-94C Starfire, F-104A and F-104C Starfighter, AC-130A Hercules, and VC-140B JetStar. The "Modern Flight" hangar has been "cleaned out" a lot, leaving only some Korean and Vietnam War-area aircraft, as well as some newer Stealth planes. Those include the first Lockheed YF-22A prototype (N22YF), the one and only Northrop "Tacit Blue" airframe, as well as the spectacularly mounted Boeing (Phantom Works) one-of-a-kind "Bird of Prey"; below which, the first of the two built, quite similar-looking Boeing (Phantom Works) X-36A UAVs (X-36-1) is located. On the other side of that hangar, an RQ-1K (RQ-1A) Predator (apparently P-009, "94-3009") is mounted overhead, sporting the tail number "94-009" and (fake) under-wing pylons with an AGM-114 Hellfire missile attached to the port pylon, depicting the MQ-1K (MQ-1A) version. Also mounted high above the ground, next to the Predator, is a very impressive full-scale mockup of an RQ-4A Global Hawk, built by Aurora Flight Science Corp., and sporting the fake serial "022008" on its tails. It is painted in a never-used, low-viz two-tone gray camouflage scheme. In addition, several (new) Desert Storm veterans were on display outside, including one each: RAF Tornado IDS GR.3, F-4E and F-4G Phantom II, F-111F and EF-111A Aardvark, and the newest one, a B-1B Lancer. Of course, I had to buy a bunch of books, including the new SR-71 book from James Goodall and Jay Miller. To cap off this great aviation-themed day -- when we got home, I found the latest Air International (June 2003, Volume 64, No. 6) magazine in my mailbox, which includes an interesting little article on the recent activities of the Skunk Works, written by Chris Pocock. I highly recommend a trip to the USAFM to anyone, even if you have been there a couple of times before -- there is always something new to see! - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net 415 Gute Street or: Andreas@DDPSoftware.com Owosso, MI 48867-4410 or: Andreas@Aerospace-History.net Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.Aerospace-History.net - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 14:02:40 -0700 From: Pangaea@sonic.net (George) Subject: Blak Overflights Fellow list readers: I've just read a fascinating volume that you may enjoy about black overflights [early US and UK missions, intruding over "denied territory"] to gather vitally needed intelligence on the Soviets and their allies early in the Cold War. These highly classified missions involved incredible dangers and hardships. This is not dry history -- but first-hand accounts. Fascinating reading. What is today routine using satellites or high performance vehicles, in the early 1950s was done by RF-86s and RB-57s, 45s and 47s. Details follow: Note: You will need the NTIS number in red below to order the book from NTIS. George EARLY COLD WAR OVERFLIGHTS 1950 -1956: SYMPOSIUM PROCEEDINGS --Volumes I (Memoirs) and II Appendixes, compiled and edited by R. Cargill Hall & Clayton D. Laurie, Eds, Office of the Historian, National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), (Washington DC, 2003, ISBN 0-9724322-0-5, NTIS # PB 2003 928 004 Inv # 1275 102 for sale by NTIS, 5285 Port Royal Road, Springfield, VA 22161, tel 703 605 6000, fax 6900) . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2003 16:23:09 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Terroristical goings on at Area 51 Sigh... http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=1330758&nav=168XGVQf ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 14:41:04 -0700 (PDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: SR-71 Photo Spread The July 2003 issue of Air Classics (Volule 39, #7) has a 24 page color photo spread on the SR-71. Photos are by Eric Schulzinger, Michael O'Leary and Lockheed Martin, many (if not most) of the photos will be familiar to this list. Worth checking out at your local newsstand. If your newsstand isn't local, they have a website at http://www.challengeweb.com/airclassics.html but not much there... Greg D. Fieser ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 13:48:26 -0700 From: "Jon" Subject: SR-71 Det 2 hat on Ebay Hi fellow skunkers. Goin' thru some boxes in storage, and ran across a brand new USAF Det 2 hat. If interested, please check it out at: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2181363443 When is some skunky stuff gonna' show up? I'd even settle for some interesting rumors. Oh, I just thought of something thats coming up in August @ the Blackbird Airpark in Palmdale, CA. Its the 40th anniversary of the first flight of the YF-12. Mr. Jim Eastham, pilot of thatflight will be there as well as lots of other former crew dogs. Thats all I know about it now. I'll post more details as soon as they are available. No date set as yet. Thanks, PJ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:12:49 +0930 From: "Craig Norton" Subject: FW: New 1:400 Scale Models - April/May/June 2003 - -----Original Message----- From: Aviation Center AU [mailto:aca@iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, 1 July 2003 7:32 PM To: trofmoc@bigpond.net.au Subject: New 1:400 Scale Models - April/May/June 2003 New 1:400 Scale Models - April/May/June 2003 New Golden Wings B747 Singapore Airlines "Tropical" & Gemini Jets A330 Qantas "City Flyer" - And Many More... Hello Everyone, Here is the update for the last 3 months of new 1:400 Scale models. On the new website, if you are from outside Australia, please choose your currency in the lower left hand side of the page and notice the "ex tax" prices. To see new releases in 1:400 Scale, please follow the link to our website, click "New Releases" (on the left side menu), then choose "1:400 Scale Models", then finally you can choose which months to view. Don't forget to see the new models for June 2003! Please email me if I can be of assistance to you. Regards, Luke Hopkins Aviation Center Australia Email: luke@avaition-center.com.au Click here to visit our newly updated website now! If you like to be updated on our other items, please visit the "Contact Us" page on our website: www.aviation-center.com.au ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 08:14:23 +0930 From: "Craig Norton" Subject: Please ignore last email Sorry bout that, hate it when too nicknames are very similar. Meant to send it somewhere else. Craig... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:23:31 -0400 From: "allegrezza, george" Subject: LM Tier 3 Minus follow-on in Iraq The current (7/7/03) AW&ST describes a Lockheed Martin stealthy ISR UAV, a larger follow-on to the now-canceled Tier 3 Minus DarkStar. http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/07073ne ws.xml Some items of interest in the article: 1. USAF has had a long-standing requirement for a LO intelligence platform with a 1000 nm combat radius and an 8-hour loiter capability. The work on the new system began after the DarkStar program collapsed. 2. The vehicle has essentially the same planform as DarkStar, only larger (but smaller than the U-2). There are only two air vehicles, a ground control system, and a couple of spares. It is implied that the current vehicle is sort of an ACTD type of solution, with a larger and more capable production version to follow. (The article refers to the current vehicle as a "non-production" version.) Its payload is described as "less robust" than a U-2's. The ISAR radar is derived from the A-12A Dorito system. 3. The vehicle was used in Iraq during OIF, but, it is implied, not under the command of CENTCOM. U-2 pilots in theater were surprised to see them up in their operational neighborhood. 4. The article mentions AARS, Quartz, and Tier 3 as precedents. The are listed as separate programs, unlike some sources which meld the three together, and implies a family connection between those programs, DarkStar, and the new vehicle. 5. Cost is not discussed except to imply the vehicle and system cost would be several times that of the Global Hawk. Not sure if this means the current demonstration program of a follow-on production version. 6. Boeing is described as having a "modular" stealthy CTOL UAV testbed that is used to test different nose, tail and wing configurations. 7. Lockheed had a classified program to develop a UCAV-N variant. This has now been folded into Northrop Grumman's work on the joint services UCAV. FYI, George ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 10:18:54 -0400 From: John Stone Subject: Test.. Hello all, Has the list been quiet or am I not getting message? Best, John - -- U-2 and SR-71 Web Page http://www.blackbirds.net Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither - -Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 11:26:24 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: Test.. At 10:18 AM 7/18/03 -0400, you wrote: >Hello all, > >Has the list been quiet or am I not getting message? > >Best, > >John Just quiet.... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 18:32:09 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: Re: Test.. It has been rather quiet of late... Kurt - --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Grounds - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Stone To: Skunk Works list Sent: Friday, July 18, 2003 07:18 Subject: Test.. > Hello all, > > Has the list been quiet or am I not getting message? > > > Best, > > John > -- > U-2 and SR-71 Web Page > > http://www.blackbirds.net > > Those who would sacrifice Liberty for Security deserve neither > -Benjamin Franklin ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 19:49:09 -0700 From: "Dan Zinngrabe" Subject: Re: LM Tier 3 Minus follow-on in Iraq Hmmmmm hopefully this mail will work. Sending to the list has been bouncing for me for some time. At Mon, 7 Jul 2003 12:23:31 -0400, allegrezza, george (allegrezza_george@EMC.com) enlightened us all with... >The current (7/7/03) AW&ST describes a Lockheed Martin stealthy ISR UAV, a >larger follow-on to the now-canceled Tier 3 Minus DarkStar. > >http://www.aviationnow.com/avnow/news/channel_awst_story.jsp?id=news/07073ne >ws.xml >ews.xml> > >Some items of interest in the article: > >1. USAF has had a long-standing requirement for a LO intelligence >platform with a 1000 nm combat radius and an 8-hour loiter capability. The >work on the new system began after the DarkStar program collapsed. >2. The vehicle has essentially the same planform as DarkStar, only >larger (but smaller than the U-2). There are only two air vehicles, a >ground control system, and a couple of spares. It is implied that the >current vehicle is sort of an ACTD type of solution, with a larger and more >capable production version to follow. (The article refers to the current >vehicle as a "non-production" version.) Its payload is described as "less >robust" than a U-2's. The ISAR radar is derived from the A-12A Dorito >system. And Tier 3 "Quartz"'s SAR was also based on the A-12's. From what I understand, because of problems with the process involved in building the antenna array, it could not really be scaled down to the Tier 3- "DarkStar". This was one of the many factors contributing to DarkStar's demise. >3. The vehicle was used in Iraq during OIF, but, it is implied, not >under the command of CENTCOM. U-2 pilots in theater were surprised to see >them up in their operational neighborhood. >4. The article mentions AARS, Quartz, and Tier 3 as precedents. The >are listed as separate programs, unlike some sources which meld the three >together, and implies a family connection between those programs, DarkStar, >and the new vehicle. For a while it was thought that AARS (Advanced Airborne Recon. System) was in fact Aurora. Congressional testimony from 1993, however, linked this to Tier-3/Quartz. It's still possible that AARS was a larger effort for meeting a set of requirements, not just a single requirement - like the Future Imaging Architecture of NRO is a set of imaging platforms, not just one system. If someone's really interested, I can dig up some of the documents with the congress stuff relating to AARS's termination in 1993. Tier 3, as mentioned in the article, appears to be Tier 3- (DarkStar), not Tier 3 "Quartz", DarkStar's big brother. After DarkStar was cancelled (and even when it was in it's death throes) LockMart pushed a number of concepts based on it and Tier 3 to provide similar capabilities at less cost and with a larger platform. Many of these were published in AvWeek, PopMech, etc. at the time, and the oft-cited "Tier 3 Patent" is actually one of these that Lockheed began pursuing on it's own- which may be the system used over Iraq. >5. Cost is not discussed except to imply the vehicle and system cost >would be several times that of the Global Hawk. Not sure if this means the >current demonstration program of a follow-on production version. >6. Boeing is described as having a "modular" stealthy CTOL UAV testbed >that is used to test different nose, tail and wing configurations. I've heard that Boeing is flying something very similar to their Condor RPV right now, though that may me a separate program. >7. Lockheed had a classified program to develop a UCAV-N variant. This >has now been folded into Northrop Grumman's work on the joint services UCAV. > >FYI, >George _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Linux: An OS for the 5% of the world that cares about how many threads they're yielding. _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ http://www.quellish.com/ _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V12 #3 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. 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