From owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Tue Nov 4 14:17:09 2003 Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2003 13:06:53 -0600 From: skunk-works-digest Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V12 #5 skunk-works-digest Tuesday, November 4 2003 Volume 12 : Number 005 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 Re: C-130A Takes Last Flight Re: C-130A Takes Last Flight Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora Re: New Runway at Area 51 A-12 (926) Crash Site Found Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora Re: A-12 (926) Crash Site Found RE: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora JAG Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora RE: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora RE: JAG Re: Supposition Aurora - And Mass Injection Pre-Compressor Cooling RIP Concorde Re: RIP Concorde OXCART cover considerations, April 1963 U-2 Document on CIA Website AIM-47/AGM-76 New Gunship Russian space plane *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:48:48 -0400 From: "Jim Bjaloncik" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "skunk-works-digest" To: Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 > > skunk-works-digest Saturday, October 18 2003 Volume 12 : Number 004 > > > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:42:46 +0000 > From: "wayne binkley" > Subject: Iraqi Commander Swears He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > > >Iraqi Commander Swears He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- > >Rense.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > > > >Iraqi Commander Swears > >He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > >Bill Dash > >8-17-03 > > > > > > Author's Note: This article first appeared on FarShores on > >8/12/03. In the interest of accuracy, I have pulled that draft and replaced > >it with this updated version. > > Whoa, hold the bus Wayne. This sounds more like FAROUT as opposed to FarShores. And if it turns up on Rense's site, I'd stay away from it. While I don't mind a little conspriacy theory every so often and have engaged in investigations of paranormal and unusual incidents (along with being an aviation fanatic), I won't touch Rense's site with a ten-foot pole (or a twelve foot Scandinavian) anymore. There's so much left-wing bulls**t at that site that I've been tempted to print it out and add it to my garden's compost pile. If you want some really laughable stuff, go to www.radarmatrix.com and check out all the New World Order garbage about HAARP, "radar rings", etc. Got into a flaming match at another digest site with the idiot that runs that particular site. While he claimed he's no scientist (the revelation of the century), he had gone on to promote this nonsense while also claiming that he has seen, and has evidence, that Doppler weather radar actually controls thunderstorms and moves them from one site to another. I contacted a professor of meteorology at U. if Illinois who is experienced and knowledgable in weather radar and he indicated to me that these "rings" were nothing more than reflected returns seen when specific filter(s) were turned off on the radar system in question. These filters screen out the garbage, ground clutter, etc. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:53:35 -0400 From: "Jim Bjaloncik" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "skunk-works-digest" To: Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 12:44 PM Subject: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 > > skunk-works-digest Saturday, October 18 2003 Volume 12 : Number 004 > > > Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:09:48 -0700 (PDT) > From: gregd@habu2.net > Subject: YF-12 photos > > > XB-70 #1, freshly painted before moving it into the second hangar at > the museum, again late 80s (although I understand it has now been > moved to another building) > > http://www.habu2.net/aeropix/xb-70/ > Greg - Great photos. Glad to see they finally returned the old XB to it's proper state. When I was last down at the Air Museum about 7-8 years ago with a former co-worker (and ex-USAF Phantom pilot), the Valkyrie was looking rather shabby sitting out there. Jim ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:52:35 -0500 From: "Jay N. Miller" Subject: Re: C-130A Takes Last Flight Anyone know the serial number of this aircraft? Thanks. Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 06:23:05 -0700 (PDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: Re: C-130A Takes Last Flight Jay, I believe the serno was 55-0022 ( c/n 182-3049 ) Greg On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:52:35 -0500, "Jay N. Miller" wrote: > > Anyone know the serial number of this aircraft? > > Thanks. > > Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:21:55 +0000 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 I ain't saying i believe a word of it,it's just interesting. wayne d.binkley >From: "Jim Bjaloncik" >Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >To: >Subject: Re: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 >Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:48:48 -0400 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "skunk-works-digest" >To: >Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 12:44 PM >Subject: skunk-works-digest V12 #4 > > > > > > skunk-works-digest Saturday, October 18 2003 Volume 12 : Number >004 > > > > > > Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:42:46 +0000 > > From: "wayne binkley" > > Subject: Iraqi Commander Swears He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > > > > >Iraqi Commander Swears He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > > >Rense.com > > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > > > > > >Iraqi Commander Swears > > >He Saw US Evacuate Saddam > > >Bill Dash > > >8-17-03 > > > > > > > > > Author's Note: This article first appeared on FarShores on > > >8/12/03. In the interest of accuracy, I have pulled that draft and >replaced > > >it with this updated version. > > > > >Whoa, hold the bus Wayne. This sounds more like FAROUT as opposed to >FarShores. And if it turns up on Rense's site, I'd stay away from it. >While I don't mind a > little conspriacy theory every so often and have engaged in >investigations of paranormal and unusual incidents (along with being an >aviation fanatic), I won't touch > Rense's site with a ten-foot pole (or a twelve foot Scandinavian) >anymore. There's so much left-wing bulls**t at that site that I've been >tempted to print it out and add it > to my garden's compost pile. > > If you want some really laughable stuff, go to www.radarmatrix.com >and >check out all the New World Order garbage about HAARP, "radar rings", etc. >Got into a > flaming match at another digest site with the idiot that runs that >particular site. While he claimed he's no scientist (the revelation of >the >century), he had gone on to promote > this nonsense while also claiming that he has seen, and has evidence, >that Doppler weather radar actually controls thunderstorms and moves them >from one site to another. > I contacted a professor of meteorology at U. if Illinois who is >experienced and knowledgable in weather radar and he indicated to me that >these "rings" were nothing more > than reflected returns seen when specific filter(s) were turned off on >the radar system in question. These filters screen out the garbage, ground >clutter, etc. > >Jim _________________________________________________________________ Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers. https://broadband.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:51:28 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora Been kicking this around for a while and knowing there are some U-2 and 71 people who have probabely attended about the same briefings I have. Satelites are great but when you start talking geosyncris and TOT plus how long to manuver into the proper orbit plus do you have enough fuel on board to accomplish this plus what happenes when you are not over the target you come up with all kinds of problems. Why do you think they teamed the SR with the U-2. I dont know if you all are aware of the fact that just about the same time they said bye-bye Blackbird they reopened the U-2 manufacturing line. This along with the new glas cockpit and bigger engine takes it well into your next birthday. Does it not make sense to you that with all the monies back to the 80s that have gone into a Project called Aurora ( Billions) which then dropped from sight that once again the ever indominatable Skunk Works has done it again. Check the 117 and B-2 and then go back to budgets, which can be obtained and name the project only to drop out of sight. Cheers. David Harrington ANYTIME-ANYPLACE - -- ^SOnly a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress.^T Copyright 1992, Frank Rice Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@mindspring.com > Alternate: < fortean1@msn.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org >[Vietnam veterans, Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:51:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora Terry wrote, apparently quoting someone named David Harrington: >I dont know if you all are aware of the fact that just about the same time >they said bye-bye Blackbird they reopened the U-2 manufacturing line. This >along with the new glas cockpit and bigger engine takes it well into your >next birthday. This is incorrect. The U-2R was built in the late 1960s as a completely redesigned version of the original U-2 aircraft. Then the U-2R line was reopened (once) in the late 1970s and early 1980s to built additional U-2Rs, some under the designation TR-1, even though those aircraft differed mainly in internal wiring and payload capabilities. Then, in the early 1990s, a program started to re-engine all surviving U-2Rs (34 in all, including early and later U-2Rs, as well as ex-TR-1s) and convert them to U-2S (and TU-2S) standard, later also adding lightweight composite materials, a modified glass cockpit, and modernized reconnaissance sensors. There haven't been any new U-2 airframes been built for over 20 years now! The SR-71 was retired in early 1990 and half-heartedly revived and cancelled again a couple of times during that decade. I can't see any correlation here, besides that the SR-71 could have been still very useful at that time, given similar avionics and sensor upgrades. Besides the above inaccuracy, I don't have a clue what the poster tries to say. Does he mean that there should be an "Aurora"-type strategic hypersonic reconnaissance plane because it would make sense to have one, especially because the Habu was retired? That's what people have speculated for a long time, now. But as far as I can see, there hasn't been any evidence surfaced to support the existence of such an Aurora, for the last 15 years or so. But this might depend on your definition of "evidence". :) - -- Andreas - --- --- Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: GPahl@CharterMI.net 415 Gute Street or: schnars@ais.org Owosso, MI 48867-4410 Tel: (989) 723-9927 Web Site: http://www.ais.org/~schnars/ - --- --- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:43:13 EDT From: Xelex@aol.com Subject: Re: New Runway at Area 51 The so-called "new runway" at Area 51 turned out to be a new taxiway from the South Ramp area to Runway 14L/32R (the "new" main runway, built in 1991). Runway 14R/32L (the "old" main runway, built in 1960) is now entirely closed, including the lakebed overrun. In April 2000, the south half of that runway was still open, but has since been closed. An overrun line has been painted on the lakebed at the north end of 14L/32R. By late 2001, the South Delta Taxiway had been turned into Runway 12/30. This would be an ideal runway for UAV tests. It is south of the new taxiway. Peter Merlin ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:00:44 EDT From: Xelex@aol.com Subject: A-12 (926) Crash Site Found Lockheed A-12 (60-6926/Article 123) was the third built, the second to fly, and the first to crash. It was lost on 24 May 1963 due to pitot tube icing. Pilot Ken Collins was forced to eject in an inverted flat spin 14 miles south of Wendover, Utah. Recovery crews hurriedly removed the wreckage within a few days. The largest pieces, mainly from the mid fuselage and wings were cut up with blowtorches. On 4 October 2003, I located the crash site in the desert 14 miles south of Wendover. Crash debris included titanium and some composite laminates, consistent with Blackbird-type aircraft. Part numbers and Lockheed Skunk Works inspection stamps were consistent with A-12 parts. Exterior markings indicate that aircraft was mostly natural metal with black chines. Full-color national insignia (star-and-bar) was painted against light gray background, consistent with existing photos of Article 123. Recognizable components included parts of corrugated wing surface, vent grill fragment, cockpit items, chine assembly fragments, and engine parts. Peter W. Merlin THE X-HUNTERS Aerospace Archeology Team ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:02:00 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora I was shooting the breeze with a NAS Security gaurd when several C-130s passed over. We got to talking about air shows and I menioned seeing the SR-71 do a touch-and-go about 300 yards in front of us. I commented how quiet it was even with full afterburners and we began to discuss the Stealth Fighter and how absurdly loud it is even a mile or two away.... Then he said "and you should hear the Aurora go over, it knocks you on your ass"... A slip up or BS? This is the only comment other than media speculation I have heard in ten years. Kurt - --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Ground ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:10:06 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: Re: A-12 (926) Crash Site Found Any crashes of exotic aerocraft in non-government controlled portions of Nevada? Kurt - --- Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division Rosetta Proving Ground ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:40:05 -0700 From: "Joy Richards" Subject: RE: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora A gentleman I knew lived a mile or so from the Amarillo (ex-AFB) International Airport. The services use it for touch and goes - including C5, E3 and B1 types. The B1 is loud on approach, mind you. What he heard on a couple of occasions - at something later than 2AM - was a very loud aircraft that made the B1 sound mundane. As I recall, he used the word 'explosions'. Normally, an experienced aviation buff, he was able to identify types by engine sounds. This one, however, was totally unknown. Additionally, he never heard this during daylight hours. While there was nothing identifiable, there was certainly enough to speculate with. Joy > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of Mr. K. Rudolph > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 8:02 PM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora > Importance: High > > > I was shooting the breeze with a NAS Security gaurd when > several C-130s passed over. We got to talking about air > shows and I menioned seeing the SR-71 do a touch-and-go about > 300 yards in front of us. I commented how quiet it was even > with full afterburners and we began to discuss the Stealth > Fighter and how absurdly loud it is even a mile or two > away.... Then he said "and you should hear the Aurora go > over, it knocks you on your ass"... > > A slip up or BS? This is the only comment other than media > speculation I have heard in ten years. > > Kurt > > --- > Ross Technologies Signals Intelligence Division > Rosetta Proving Ground ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:44:21 -0700 From: "Joy Richards" Subject: JAG Did anyone else see the JAG episode last Friday? It might have been fiction, but it was a very neat CGI representation of an Aurora on a training mission. (Harm flew it. Yeah, right.) I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a copy of that mesh, for that matter. Joy ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:56:15 -0700 From: "jason watkins" Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora I spent my first 18 years under the holding cycle path of an airforce base with a SAC unit. B1's are indeed loud. I once saw one takeoff under what I assume was full afterburner. It was night, and the exhaust plumes were visable to beyond a planelength behind the jet. It was also very loud, and a quite different sound from the normal B1 rumble. There was a lot more crackle. So perhaps that? But also, some of the more consistant speculation on Aurora has been that it might be testing pulse detonation engines of some form. If I believe the first hand anicdotes, this woud be my gut feeling as well. Of course, there's also the guys wearing foil hats to protect them from UFO's claiming they saw all sorts of stuff so... :/ jason > What he heard on a couple of occasions - at something later than 2AM - was a > very loud aircraft that made the B1 sound mundane. As I recall, he used the > word 'explosions'. Normally, an experienced aviation buff, he was able to > identify types by engine sounds. This one, however, was totally unknown. > Additionally, he never heard this during daylight hours. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 01:02:58 -0700 From: "Joy Richards" Subject: RE: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of jason watkins > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:56 PM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora > > > I spent my first 18 years under the holding cycle path of an > airforce base with a SAC unit. B1's are indeed loud. I once > saw one takeoff under what I assume was full afterburner. It > was night, and the exhaust plumes were visable to beyond a > planelength behind the jet. It was also very loud, and a > quite different sound from the normal B1 rumble. There was a > lot more crackle. So perhaps that? I know that he and I both have sat underneath the end of the runway and watched them roar overhead - so he would have been able to identify a B1. Besides, the B1's didn't usually fly after 12PM as the airport shut down at that time. I trust his ability to identify engine sounds - and if it was enough to rattle him, it's spooky enough for me to consider it highly unusual. But you're right - it's all subjective at this poing. > But also, some of the more consistant speculation on Aurora > has been that it might be testing pulse detonation engines of > some form. If I believe the first hand anicdotes, this woud > be my gut feeling as well. Of course, there's also the guys > wearing foil hats to protect them from UFO's claiming they > saw all sorts of stuff so... :/ Well, this wasn't testing, it was practice approaches. :) Cheers, Joy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:47:12 -0700 From: "Smith, Larry O" Subject: RE: JAG Did you get it on tape? I missed it. I had a high school football game to attend. Let me know (larry@ichips.intel.com). Thanks! Larry Smith - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of Joy Richards Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:44 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: JAG Did anyone else see the JAG episode last Friday? It might have been fiction, but it was a very neat CGI representation of an Aurora on a training mission. (Harm flew it. Yeah, right.) I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a copy of that mesh, for that matter. Joy ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:58:47 -0700 From: "Smith, Larry O" Subject: Re: Supposition Aurora - And Mass Injection Pre-Compressor Cooling Hello, Someone may build an Aurora, as more time passes. It's not hypersonic, but it's getting closer. Check out DARPA's RASCAL program. Maybe Scaled Composites will build it! The references to Mass Injection Pre-Compressor Cooling (used to be known as water injection although water is not the sole cooling agent thought of/tried) are also interesting from historical standpoints. While reading up on the details of this technique to hop up jet engines, I ran into some claims that it has been used in past record attempts. I'd like to find out more about that. Any first hand experiencers out there where it was used in a record attempt, like in an early F-4 Phantom record atempt or whatever? Regards, Larry - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of Joy Richards Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 1:03 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: RE: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com > [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] On Behalf Of jason watkins > Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 11:56 PM > To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com > Subject: Re: FWD (TLCB) Supposition Aurora > > > I spent my first 18 years under the holding cycle path of an > airforce base with a SAC unit. B1's are indeed loud. I once > saw one takeoff under what I assume was full afterburner. It > was night, and the exhaust plumes were visable to beyond a > planelength behind the jet. It was also very loud, and a > quite different sound from the normal B1 rumble. There was a > lot more crackle. So perhaps that? I know that he and I both have sat underneath the end of the runway and watched them roar overhead - so he would have been able to identify a B1. Besides, the B1's didn't usually fly after 12PM as the airport shut down at that time. I trust his ability to identify engine sounds - and if it was enough to rattle him, it's spooky enough for me to consider it highly unusual. But you're right - it's all subjective at this poing. > But also, some of the more consistant speculation on Aurora > has been that it might be testing pulse detonation engines of > some form. If I believe the first hand anicdotes, this woud > be my gut feeling as well. Of course, there's also the guys > wearing foil hats to protect them from UFO's claiming they > saw all sorts of stuff so... :/ Well, this wasn't testing, it was practice approaches. :) Cheers, Joy ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:54:16 +0100 From: "David" Subject: RIP Concorde Can't let today go by without asking you all to raise a glass to all the aerospace engineers who made commercial, supersonic passenger travel a reality. What a different breed of people they were to the small minded 'suits' at British Airways and Air France who have decided to ground Concorde. As a straight commercial decision, that would be fine, but it isn't quite so simple. We Brits are no strangers to dumb decisions by BA, but in refusing to allow Richard Branson to keep some in service, the BA board has made itself look even more small minded and petty than usual. It's sad to think that true aviation milestones like the X-15, SR-71 and Concorde are all products of 50s and 60s technologies, yet their capabilities can't be replicated almost half a century later. Aside from Low Observable aircraft, where are today's milestones? They can't all be parked up in Nevada. I've seen lots of interesting computer graphic concepts, but they're all a very long way from being 'rubber on the ramp,' - as far as we know. Let's face it: now the accountants and lawyers have taken over, mediocrity and conservatism have replaced the pioneering spirit of designers like Kelly Johnson. Another sad day for aviation as yet another engineering masterpiece - and icon - looks set to be confined to museums. David ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:56 +0100 (BST) From: mark@markr.net (Mark Rousell) Subject: Re: RIP Concorde David, I couldn't agree more with you about the withdrawal from service of Concorde. It's very sad. MarkR ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 15:26:21 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: OXCART cover considerations, April 1963 The CIA FOIA site, http://www.foia.cia.gov , has an interesting memo dated 10 April 1963 discussing cover considerations for the day when the existence of OXCART became public. It's PROPOSAL FOR SURFACING AN LRI PROTOTYPE AS COVER FOR THE OXCART PROGRAM You'll have to find it by putting "Oxcart" in the site search engine. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:01:47 -0800 (PST) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: U-2 Document on CIA Website I found this history of the U-2 program on the CIA website: http://www.cia.gov/csi/books/U2/index.htm It appears to have also covered the A-12/Oxcart program but has been heavily censured. Chris Pocock and Jay Miller are named in the preface - hmmm. More docs on the same site at: http://www.cia.gov/csi/ Greg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:51:54 -0800 (PST) From: Sean OConnor Subject: AIM-47/AGM-76 Does anyone have good information on either of these weapons? I'm looking for technical specifications (length, weight, etc), launch dates (Ben Rich claims 13 AIM-47 launches in a declassified document on Strategic Supercruising programs), what the actual warhead would have been on the AIM-47A/B, etc. Also, can anyone shed some more light on the AGM-76 program? Clearly an air-to-ground derivative of the AIM-47A, but when was it tested? What was the launcher? Cheers, Sean O'Connor ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:08:00 +0000 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: New Gunship wayne d.binkley _________________________________________________________________ Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings! Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134 [demime 1.01b removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of MSN Hotmail - Message.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 11:03:51 -0800 From: Erik Hoel Subject: Russian space plane Did anyone notice the following in this morning's Stratfor (www.stratfor.biz) emailing: "We would like to conclude with a mention of Russia's announcement about tests of a new airspace vehicle -- known as a "space plane" -- that is based on new design principles. The space plane has a round shape, takes off vertically, would fly 17,000 miles per hour -- making the trip from Moscow to New York in 50 minutes -- and could carry 1,200 passengers. Military uses also would be possible: The craft could fly up to 65 miles high in orbit and launch satellites from the stratosphere. Sound like a fairy tale? The same was said of the first spacecraft 50 years ago. However, both the United States and Russia are working on such technology -- and despite all of Russia's current weaknesses, we might still see a space arms race erupt between them, involving China as well. If a space plane indeed makes it through development -- something Russian space scientists say would take 10 to 15 years -- this day in early November could be remembered as the birth of a new era in space exploration." Has anyone seen any other announcements in this regard? Erik ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V12 #5 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner