From owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Mon Jun 14 23:11:21 2004 Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:15:29 -0500 From: skunk-works-digest Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V13 #9 skunk-works-digest Monday, June 14 2004 Volume 13 : Number 009 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** USAF Patch Re: USAF Patch Patches Re: Patches B-2 taking off from Diego Garcia Hill testimony on EMP x-45 drop/bombing test UAV report Re: UAV report Re: UAV report Re: UAV report skunk-works Re: UAV report skunk-works Re: UAV report skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." skunk-works Ramblings... Re: skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." skunk-works interesting recollection... Re: skunk-works interesting recollection... Re: skunk-works interesting recollection... [none] Re: skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems Re: skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems Re: skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems skunk-works FWD (UFO UpDate) Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand RE: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand RE: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 15:00:30 +0100 From: "James Easton" Subject: USAF Patch Can anyone possibly please confirm the origin of this patch?: http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg James Easton. E-mail: voyager@fortean.co.uk ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:28:11 -0600 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: USAF Patch > http://www.darkstar.ukonline.co.uk/patch2.jpg Hmm. The star on the ground appears to be in the vicinity of Albuquerque or maybe the White Sands. The Latin, if I'm reading it right, and the spooks suggest some sort of covert WWMCCS-like function, and the six little stars might be satellites. I don't know of anything like that in the Albuquerque area, but there's stuff at White Sands and, if the star is meant to represent Colorado Springs/Denver, there's plenty there. Just free-associating, the UHF packages on SDS come to mind. Conveniently, there seem to have been six SDSes: http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/com/sds_1.htm ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2004 12:02:02 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Patches This is mostly for Peter Merlin, who ISTR reads the list, also for general interest. Trying to identify the mystery patch from a couple of days ago, I came on the page http://www.usafpatches.com/unknown/unk501.shtml , and think that two of the patches Peter posted for identification can be IDed with moderate confidence. #503 very likely is the launch patch for a "KH-11" class CRYSTAL satellite carrying a DRAGON IR imager ( http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/imint/dragon.htm ). Such launches are infrequent and have been easily identifiable, so any information as to the date of the patch could probably tie it to a specific launch. #505 looks to relate to the US Navy's PARCAE/White Cloud/NOSS ELINT triplet satellites. http://www.fas.org/spp/military/program/surveill/noss_andronov.htm http://www.mara.org.uk/NOSS.htm BTW, there was a case a few years ago in which the NRO put more detail onto a patch than it probably intended: http://www.collectspace.com/news/news-083100a.html ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2004 12:48:08 -0500 (CDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: Re: Patches A friend gave me this rough translation, have no idea if he was even close: CLASSIS CAECE: DARK SECRET (?) DE MULTE NOCTE: OF MANY NIGHTS NOLI ROGARE: REFUSE ENTRY (?) GregD ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:51:39 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: B-2 taking off from Diego Garcia Caution: I *think* this is genuine, not Photoshopped, but these days you can never tell. Neat picture either way. http://www.ammochiefs.com/Diego%20Garcia%204.jpg ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:09:05 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Hill testimony on EMP I forward this for the interest of people on the lists who may be in DC next Thursday. Perhaps it will have a little bit to do with space, perhaps a little bit to do with skunkish matters. [HASC = House Armed Services Committee] From: "HASC Communications Office" Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2004 8:41 AM Subject: HASC Schedule for the week of April 19-23, 2004 Thursday, April 22, 2004 - 9:00 am - 2118 Rayburn - Open The Full Committee will meet to receive testimony on the Report of the Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack. Witness: Honorable William Graham Chairman Commission to Assess the Threat to the United States from Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP) Attack ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 10:24:01 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: x-45 drop/bombing test http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/04/19/combat.drone.ap/index.html ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:43:00 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: UAV report >From today's FAS SGB mailing: Some UAV performance goals remain elusive. "High altitude, long endurance, deep penetration, stealthy ISR [intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance] is the most difficult of all possible UAV missions," the DSB observed. "This 'holy grail' has been pursued in many different, classified programs over the past 25 years and, for one reason or another, each program has been terminated." See "Report of the Defense Science Board Task Force on Unmanned Aerial Vehicles and Uninhabited Combat Aerial Vehicles," February 2004 (80 pages, 850 KB PDF file): http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/dod/dsb/uav.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 07:55:35 -0500 From: "Jay N. Miller" Subject: Re: UAV report Allen, For some reason I could not open this file. Any suggestions? May I ask where you got my e-mail address? All the best, Jay Miller ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:32:05 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: UAV report At 07:55 AM 5/14/04 -0500, you wrote: >Allen, > >For some reason I could not open this file. Any suggestions? > >May I ask where you got my e-mail address? > >All the best, Jay Miller Jay File does take a little time to download and requires Acrobat Reader 5.0 or better to open. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:26:42 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: UAV report Sorry, for some reason Jay Miller's questions didn't get to me. Anyway, John has, hopefully, provided the needed answer about the file. I don't have Jay's address -- presumably it got to him somehow via my posting to Skunk-Works list. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Szalay" To: Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 9:32 AM Subject: Re: UAV report > At 07:55 AM 5/14/04 -0500, you wrote: > >Allen, > > > >For some reason I could not open this file. Any suggestions? > > > >May I ask where you got my e-mail address? > > > >All the best, Jay Miller > > > Jay > File does take a little time to download and requires Acrobat Reader 5.0 or better > to open. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 21:19:26 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: skunk-works Re: UAV report >On Fri, 14 May 2004 09:40:47 -0700, you wrote: >Note to owner: > >Jay's comment hits close to home - it confuses me sometimes, too, when I get >messages that appear out of the blue, from people I don't know. (Lots of >times they end up getting filtered as spam, too - as I don't know them and >the filtering software puts them in the non-friends catagory. > >I know that many list management packages offer the ability to put a title >prefix in the subject... for this list it would look like [Skunkworks] or >something... > >I use those whenever I'm creating a filter for my email. Have you ever >considered doing this? (I'd suspect you have...) It would prevent the >confusion, too. > >Thanks, >Joy Joy: I've done it for other lists I run routinely, but for some reason never changed this one. I've now corrected that. You should see prefix on this message as I'm cc'ing it to the list. George > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com] >> On Behalf Of Jay N. Miller >> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 5:56 AM >> To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com >> Subject: Re: UAV report >> >> Allen, >> >> For some reason I could not open this file. Any suggestions? >> >> May I ask where you got my e-mail address? >> >> All the best, Jay Miller > ===[George R. Kasica]=== +1 262 677 0766 Skunk-Works ListOwner +1 206 374 6482 FAX http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com ICQ #12862186 Digest Issues at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ S L O W E R T R A F F I C K E E P R I G H T tm / \ / \ _/ ___ \_ ________/ \_______/V!V\_______/ \_______ \__/ \___/ \__/ www.habu.org The OnLine Blackbird Museum ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 09:20:43 -0500 From: "Jay N. Miller" Subject: skunk-works Re: UAV report John, Thanks for that. I'll give it another shot... Jay ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 02:22:16 +0100 From: "James Easton" Subject: skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." I wondered if anyone could please help with brief queries re the following article, which is presently receiving some media attention (alas, the 'UFO' element therein is inherent): 'UFOs Gone Wild, Men From Mars Visit Mexico' by Charles R. Smith Thursday, May 13, 2004 "The unidentified aircraft that shadowed the Mexican surveillance plane are reportedly part of a squadron of new stealth strike craft operating from the U.S.". Any known evidence for this alleged "squadron of new stealth strike craft"? "The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light panels that are only visible to special cameras or night vision gear. The panels are used in formation flying outside of hostile airspace to prevent the aircraft from colliding with each other or with support aircraft such as refueling planes. The panels are especially handy during aerial refueling with U.S.A.F. tankers, allowing the tanker operators to visually monitor the stealth planes in total darkness". "However, F-117A Stealth fighters normally operate inside the U.S. with special radar reflective panels attached to their planes in order to be tracked in commercial airspace and not attract attention". Are these assertions factual? "The new stealth aircraft is said to embody the latest technology, including special light panels designed to hide the plane in broad daylight". Any evidence that such technology has actually been deployed? "In addition, the recent UFO sighting in Mexico came within days of a report of a classified aircraft powered by an impulse type engine flying over Utah. The aircraft left a distinctive 'donuts-on-a-rope' contrail in a flight over the Utah Wasatch Mountains". "More than a decade ago, a similar classified aircraft was spotted and photographed by observers throughout the U.S. The aircraft left a telltale trail of puffs along a long contrail in the sky. However, sightings of the pulser engine aircraft dropped off during the late 1990s." ...'donuts-on-a-rope' contrails - were they not concluded to have a mundane explanation? For the full publication, see: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/5/13/91044. shtml [This URL will 'wrap around']. Smith's article contains some significant claims, with Smith purportedly being an 'informed source', yet it's strikingly devoid of any references. There's an author bio at: http://www.newsmax.com/pundits/bios/Smith-bio.shtml A knowledgeable appraisal on the above points would be much appreciated - please reply directly, if preferable to keep responses off-list because of the media's 'UFO' connotation concerning this story. James Easton. E-mail: voyager@jeaston.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:29:40 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: skunk-works Ramblings... I can't speak for stealth aircraft, but it seems reasonable. In 1991 we used IR panels during night operations in the mountains to keep track of vehicles in convoys. A relative tells me of similar applications on tanks in the early 80's. As for special panels and special cameras... Not really, fourty year old technology that can be seen by darn near any solid state camera, high end professional or kids toy and night vision equipment used for the past sixty or so years, nothing special, nothing new, different application... Well sort of I guess, RC airplane hobbyists have been doing similar things with surplus night vision goggles and IR LEDs on their planes for fifteen years or so. Something old is new again! Kurt - ----- Original Message ----- From: James Easton > "The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light > panels that are only visible to special cameras or night > vision gear. The panels are used in formation..." ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:18:07 -0500 (CDT) From: gregd@habu2.net Subject: Re: skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." IR formation lights are standard equipment on most US front line aircraft, and have been for some time. IR LEDs on the left formation light of a Block 52 F-16C: http://www.habu2.net/aeropix/scott2003/images/s523.jpg IR LEDs on the trailing formation light on the same F-16C: http://www.habu2.net/aeropix/scott2003/images/s509.jpg These lights have been openly acknowledged in many public sources, the following is an excerpt from Lockheed's Code One magazine, January 1998: (article is online at http://www.codeonemagazine.com/archives/1998/articles/jan_98/jan2a_98.html ) "Aviano F-16 pilots are equally pleased with the exterior lighting portion of the NVIS modification as well. "The exterior lighting is spectacular," Nichols says. "In covert mode, the airplane is completely dark to the naked eye. And the variable covert strobe allows us to discern different airplanes by the rate at which the strobe flashes. We can look around in a four-ship and know where everybody is." Nichols says the variable strobe is especially helpful in the forward air controller or FAC mission. "NVGs make it difficult to perceive range," he explains. "A bright object ten miles away may appear closer than a nearby dim object. Depth perception works differently at low light levels. A unique strobe rate makes it real simple to distinguish a wingman from other light sources." The NVG-friendly lighting also improves the air-to-air capabilities of F-16s at night. "We can easily distinguish our aircraft from aircraft with normal lighting," Nichols explains. "When we fly against an airplane without NVG-compatible lighting, we can sort other aircraft visually from a long way out, sometimes before we can sort them on the radar." Greg Fieser On Wed, 19 May 2004 02:22:16 +0100, "James Easton" wrote: > "The aircraft are equipped with special infrared light > panels that are only visible to special cameras or night > vision gear. The panels are used in formation flying > outside of hostile airspace to prevent the aircraft from > colliding with each other or with support aircraft such > as refueling planes. The panels are especially handy > during aerial refueling with U.S.A.F. tankers, allowing > the tanker operators to visually monitor the stealth > planes in total darkness". ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:27:54 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: skunk-works interesting recollection... I re-call about eight years ago seeing some interesting IR devices for sale at a swapmeet. They were little square rubber blocks with 9 volt battery snaps on the under side and an IR LED on top. I asked about them and the fellow told me a story of how he used them in Viet Nahm to indicate a cleared area for helicopters to land. Kurt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:40:52 -0400 From: John Szalay Subject: Re: skunk-works interesting recollection... At 09:27 PM 5/18/04 -0700, you wrote: >I re-call about eight years ago seeing some interesting IR devices for sale >at a swapmeet. They were little square rubber blocks with 9 volt battery >snaps on the under side and an IR LED on top. I asked about them and the >fellow told me a story of how he used them in Viet Nahm to indicate a >cleared area for helicopters to land. > >Kurt I personally would take that with a grain of salt.. I was a Pathfinder during that time period, (my job was to control the LZs) and I don't recall any LED devices then, we had small strobe lights that we carried on our "alice" shoulder straps, and larger battery marker lights for marking the LZ The LED models must have come much later.. 101st Airborne Pathfinders ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:57:49 -0700 From: "Mr. K. Rudolph" Subject: Re: skunk-works interesting recollection... Hmm... Early seventies maybe? They were in the aluminized brown paper packages, I should have made a note of the date of manufature. Kurt - ----- Original Message ----- From: John Szalay > I was a Pathfinder during that time period, (my job was to control the LZs) > and I don't recall any LED devices then, we had small strobe lights that we carried > on our "alice" shoulder straps, and larger battery marker lights for marking the LZ > The LED models must have come much later.. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:14:49 +0200 From: "Frits Westra" Subject: [none] ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:35:05 +0100 From: "James Easton" Subject: Re: skunk-works "a squadron of new stealth strike craft..." Thanks for the informative and helpful feedback, it's much appreciated. James Easton. E-mail: voyager@jeaston.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT) From: Wei-Jen Su Subject: skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems Hello everyone, I was reading an article of Janes Defence Weekly (April 28, 2004 pag. 20-21) about exporting problem of Czech VERA-E passive surveillance system to Peoples Republic of China. As we all know, a passive surveillance system (Tamara) was suspected of aiding Serb air-defence forces down the F-117 during Kosovo crisis. From the article, I understand that VERA-E system can detect any airborne targets via their radar systems and any other electronics equipment that emit an electronic signal, including onboard communications, jamming devices, secondary surveillance radar/identifications friend or foe transponders, tactical air navigation/distance-measuring equipment interrogators, datalinks and other pulse emitters. As I understand, whenever the F-117 flies to a hostile territory, F-117 will turn down the entire emitting electronic signal. Anyone know how can a passive surveillance system is able to detect the F-117? Sincerely, Wei-Jen Su E-mail: wsu02@utopia.poly.edu "What's the purpose of the propeller? To keep the pilot cool. If you don't think so, just stop it and watch him sweat!" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 16:04:33 +0200 From: Pavel =?iso-8859-2?B?qWVzdOFr?= Subject: Re: skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems Hello list, On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 09:49:32AM -0400, Wei-Jen Su wrote: > Hello everyone, I was reading an article of Janes Defence Weekly (April > 28, 2004 pag. 20-21) about exporting problem of Czech VERA-E passive just a quick update: exporting problem was solved. Vlra is not giong to be exported to PRC. I have not read the JDW article, but the issue behind was that U. S. were complaining about Vlra possible ability to track U. S. military vehicles on Taiwan. Czech government blocked the export and I've even heard, that U. S. are considering Vlra purchase. > As I understand, whenever the F-117 flies to a hostile territory, F-117 > will turn down the entire emitting electronic signal. Anyone know how can > a passive surveillance system is able to detect the F-117? I am not sure, but as it looks now, this detection system will very much like move the distance from target, where You can acquire last update - meaning F117/B2 acquiring last update via data link can be seen if not aware of Vlra presence in the hostile area. - -- paja@actinet.cz Hi there. I'm a lonesome little system with a fast processor and and a high-bandwidth connection, running unsecured Red Hat just naked, right out of the box... not even a firewall between you and me, big boy... I'm just lying here with my ports wide open waiting for *you*, baby, oooh... I want you to probe me... use me... spew packets *all over* me... -- anonymous, nmap-hacker ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:08:44 -0500 From: "Allen Thomson" Subject: Re: skunk-works VERA-E passive survillance systems > As I understand, whenever the F-117 flies to a hostile territory, F-117 > will turn down the entire emitting electronic signal. Anyone know how can > a passive surveillance system is able to detect the F-117? I followed Tamara for a while a few years ago. There was a suggesion at the time -- never confirmed that I know of -- that the system could operate in a bistatic mode using either a remote cooperating transmitter or transmitters of opportunity a la Silent Sentry. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:00:39 -0700 From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works FWD (UFO UpDate) Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions From: Nick Balaskas To: UFO UpDates - Toronto Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 23:04:24 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) Subject: Re: Smith Responds On Aircraft Invisibility Questions Last weekend at San Francisco's 'Wired NextFest 2004' there were many UFO-type technologies showcased there. Some of these include the amazing invisibility coat http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_747591.html and the giant spherical UFO-like airship with an internal cabin for crew and passengers that is manufactured in the suburbs north of Toronto. http://www.21stcenturyairships.com/ Technology we thought we did not have is already in the public domain and available to everyone. Nick Balaskas - -- "Only a zit on the wart on the heinie of progress." Copyright 1992, Frank Rice Terry W. Colvin, Sierra Vista, Arizona (USA) < fortean1@mindspring.com > Alternate: < fortean1@msn.com > Home Page: < http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/8958/index.html > Sites: * Fortean Times * Mystic's Haven * TLCB * U.S. Message Text Formatting (USMTF) Program - ------------ Member: Thailand-Laos-Cambodia Brotherhood (TLCB) Mailing List TLCB Web Site: < http://www.tlc-brotherhood.org > [Southeast Asia veterans, Allies, CIA/NSA, and "steenkeen" contractors are welcome.] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 12:46:12 -0500 From: George Kasica Subject: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:05:21 +0700, "brock wright" wrote: I am attempting to obtain the following information. As you can see I've attempted to contact Andreas but his e-mail was returned. Can anyone put me in contact with Andreas or can anyone help me with my search? Best regards, Brock Wright. - ----- Original Message ----- From: brock wright To: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:03 PM Subject: B52 aircraft lost in Thailand Dear Sir, After reading lots of books, talking to anyone that would listen and searching the web looking for information I came across your detailed account of the B52's lost during Viet Nam war. The article was in a skunk works digest of 12 April 1999 vol. 08 number 053. The information was very detailed and must have required extensive research. I am currently living in Thailand an have been attempting to obtain the map coordinates of six (6) aircraft which you reported as crashing in Thailand. I've been in contact with Boeing, which supplied me with a link to the Air Force history office at Maxwell AFB. I have basically been unable to find anything close to what I'm looking for. Sir, Could you possibly point me in a direction where I might be able to obtain the coordinates for the aircraft I'm looking for? The aircraft are as follows: Date lost Type Fy-Serial C/N 1. 7/30/72 B-52D-35-BW 56-0677 464048 2. 7/19/69 B-52D-25-BW 55-0676 464023 3. 12/19/72 B-52G-110-BW 58-0246 464314 4. 12/20/72 B-52G-80-BO 57-6481 464186 5. 12/20/72 B-52D-80-BO 56-0622 17305 6. 12/26/72 B-52D-70-BO 56-0584 17267 Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Brock Wright. George, MR. Tibbs, Nazerene, Ginger/The Beast Kasica(8/1/88-3/19/01, 1/17/02-) Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'_' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 20:58:30 +0000 From: "wayne binkley" Subject: RE: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand I don't know the coordinates but it brought back some memories.I was at Nakom Phonom(sp),usually called"naked fanny" one night and went to the outdoors movie.while there the rescue crew was scrambled,and we heard a B-52 had crashed.I had a radio that had VHF on it and I went back to the barracks and listened to the rescue live.I think everyone bailed out,but one guy,maybe the gunner was missing.I swear that we heard later on that night a guy walked throught the main gate carrying an opened chute.The joke was the Air Police wrote him up for curfew violation! wayne d.binkley ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2004 17:03:23 -0600 From: "Robert Gates" Subject: RE: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand Brock, You might consider getting a copy the cards for these particlar planes from Maxwell. I forget what they call them these days, but the AF keeps 3 X 5 cards on every serial numbered plane in inventory...as I recall they give the crash date, list the crew that was on board, approx location...or references what unit they were with so you can dig data from the unit history. I ran accross this when I was talking to the folks at Maxwell about something else and an old WW-2 airplane crash came up. I asked them how they were able to find out so much information within a day or two and the guy told me about these cards and if they know the plane, the serial number and model, they can go to the cards and pull the data quick. As I recall these cards are publicly accessable. Cheers, Robert - -----Original Message----- From: owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com [mailto:owner-skunk-works@netwrx1.com]On Behalf Of George Kasica Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 11:46 AM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works (fwd) B52 aircraft lost in Thailand On Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:05:21 +0700, "brock wright" wrote: I am attempting to obtain the following information. As you can see I've attempted to contact Andreas but his e-mail was returned. Can anyone put me in contact with Andreas or can anyone help me with my search? Best regards, Brock Wright. - ----- Original Message ----- From: brock wright To: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Sent: Monday, June 14, 2004 9:03 PM Subject: B52 aircraft lost in Thailand Dear Sir, After reading lots of books, talking to anyone that would listen and searching the web looking for information I came across your detailed account of the B52's lost during Viet Nam war. The article was in a skunk works digest of 12 April 1999 vol. 08 number 053. The information was very detailed and must have required extensive research. I am currently living in Thailand an have been attempting to obtain the map coordinates of six (6) aircraft which you reported as crashing in Thailand. I've been in contact with Boeing, which supplied me with a link to the Air Force history office at Maxwell AFB. I have basically been unable to find anything close to what I'm looking for. Sir, Could you possibly point me in a direction where I might be able to obtain the coordinates for the aircraft I'm looking for? The aircraft are as follows: Date lost Type Fy-Serial C/N 1. 7/30/72 B-52D-35-BW 56-0677 464048 2. 7/19/69 B-52D-25-BW 55-0676 464023 3. 12/19/72 B-52G-110-BW 58-0246 464314 4. 12/20/72 B-52G-80-BO 57-6481 464186 5. 12/20/72 B-52D-80-BO 56-0622 17305 6. 12/26/72 B-52D-70-BO 56-0584 17267 Any assistance you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Best regards, Brock Wright. George, MR. Tibbs, Nazerene, Ginger/The Beast Kasica(8/1/88-3/19/01, 1/17/02-) Jackson, WI USA georgek@netwrx1.com http://www.netwrx1.com/georgek ICQ #12862186 Zz zZ |\ z _,,,---,,_ /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'_' '---''(_/--' `-'\_) ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V13 #9 ******************************** To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe "local-skunk-works": subscribe skunk-works-digest local-skunk-works@your.domain.net To unsubscribe, send mail to the same address, with the command: unsubscribe skunk-works-digest in the body. Administrative requests, problems, and other non-list mail can be sent to georgek@netwrx1.com. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "skunk-works-digest" in the commands above with "skunk-works". Back issues are available for viewing by a www interface located at: http://www.netwrx1.com/skunk-works/ If you have any questions or problems please contact me at: georgek@netwrx1.com Thanks, George R. Kasica Listowner