From owner-skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Thu Jan 10 01:08:09 2013 Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 01:06:32 From: skunk-works-digest Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com To: skunk-works-digest@netwrx1.com Subject: skunk-works-digest V16 #16 skunk-works-digest Thursday, January 10 2013 Volume 16 : Number 016 Index of this digest by subject: *************************************************** skunk-works Fw: Ho 229 Testing Who invented the Stealth Fighter :) skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies Re: skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies Re: skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies skunk-works FW.....U-2 piloting - USAF Intell Analysis - today's Google Earth // Cuban Missile Crisis // skunk-works U-2 downloads from the CIA skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Re: skunk-works hello, is this nichrome warm? Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Re: skunk-works hello, is this nichrome warm? Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? skunk-works The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans & The Hunt for 928 (A-12 spyplane) skunk-works Why the A-12 became the SR-71 skunk-works FW.......Re: Any questions for a U-2 pilot? *************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:01:25 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works Fw: Ho 229 Testing Who invented the Stealth Fighter :) The B-2 is a far cry from this Nazi R&D, the Horten 229. The video is a National Geographic Channel creation, and runs about one hour. The attached document has some data as well as speculation. Terry -----Forwarded Message----- From: Jim Sent: Jun 26, 2012 3:19 PM To: fortean1@mindspring.com Cc: Subject: Ho 229 Testing Who invented the Stealth Fighter :) Quite long ! Very interesting ! Note how the thing closely resembles Arnolds' 1947 UFO sighting. They claim only one captured I heard six taken home to the US. -----Original Message----- Hallo Guys, Check out this interesting video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkevU3o5Z2Q&feature=related An amazingly comprehensive report on german technology. Attached is bits of info from various sources that I assembled. Joe Terry W. Colvin [demime 1.01b removed an attachment of type application/msword which had a name of Horten.doc] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 15:28:38 -0700 (GMT-07:00) From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies The logistics of recovering the 'alleged' crashed disc near (or far) from Roswell Army Air Field in 1947, is discussed in this short paper. The author is Anthony J. Tambini, a former MUFON investigator. He says his paper has previously been sent to several UFO web sites. He has given me permission to offer this paper freely. It is some 13 pages. I have it in two format, .doc (Microsoft Word) of 73 kb & as a .odt (Open Office) of 22 kb. Those who do not get the attachment, on those mailing lists not supporting same, can e-mail me and request a copy. The alleged alien bodies would probably have been air shipped to Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. This was the military center of aerospace medicine research in 1947. The alleged disc would probably have been shipped by rail or road to Sandia Labs in Kirtland Air Force Base, New Mexico. Below is an excerpt: QUOTE Methods of Shipment Prior to detailing the various methods that could have been used to ship the crashed vehicle, it must first be established that the vehicle was shipped as one complete unit. Researcher interviews with reported eyewitnesses to the craft describe a disk shaped object approximately 30 feet in diameter (report of the actual shape and size vary) with apparent significant structural damage. This damage in most instances had been reported as a significant rip/tear along the outer portion of the craft allowing limited observation of the craftb^Ys interior. With a craft of unknown origin and potentially unknown structural material used in its construction, along with the apparent structural damage, it would seem logical that any on-site engineering evaluation would most certainly have determine that the craft needed to be shipped as a complete assembly and not damaged in any way. Most certainly the craft would not have been disassembled or cut up in any way for ease of shipment. With the above criterion established, there would have been three methods available for shipment: UNQUOTE Terry Terry W. Colvin Tucson, Arizona ( 10 June to 13 August 2012 ) [demime 1.01b removed an attachment of type application/vnd] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 18:09:04 -0500 (CDT) From: larryjoe@westok.net Subject: Re: skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies Hi Terry, I would certainly appreciate a copy in .doc format - although being an admitted skeptic not about UFO's but about a UFO crash at Roswell...grin. Always in learn mode though. -- Larry Hancock > The logistics of recovering the 'alleged' crashed disc near (or far) > from Roswell Army Air Field in 1947, is discussed in this short paper. > The author is Anthony J. Tambini, a former MUFON investigator. He > says his paper has previously been sent to several UFO web sites. > He has given me permission to offer this paper freely. > > It is some 13 pages. I have it in two format, .doc (Microsoft Word) of > 73 kb & as a .odt (Open Office) of 22 kb. Those who do not get the > attachment, on those mailing lists not supporting same, can e-mail me > and request a copy. > > The alleged alien bodies would probably have been air shipped to Wright > Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. This was the military center of aerospace > medicine research in 1947. The alleged disc would probably have been > shipped by rail or road to Sandia Labs in Kirtland Air Force Base, > New Mexico. > > Below is an excerpt: > > QUOTE > Methods of Shipment > Prior to detailing the various methods that could have been used to ship > the > crashed vehicle, it must first be established that the vehicle was shipped > as > one complete unit. Researcher interviews with reported eyewitnesses to the > craft describe a disk shaped object approximately 30 feet in diameter > (report > of the actual shape and size vary) with apparent significant structural > damage. This damage in most instances had been reported as a significant > rip/tear along the outer portion of the craft allowing limited observation > of > the craftb^Ys interior. > With a craft of unknown origin and potentially unknown structural > material > used in its construction, along with the apparent structural damage, it > would > seem logical that any on-site engineering evaluation would most certainly > have > determine that the craft needed to be shipped as a complete assembly and > not > damaged in any way. Most certainly the craft would not have been > disassembled > or cut up in any way for ease of shipment. > With the above criterion established, there would have been three methods > available for shipment: > UNQUOTE > > > Terry > > > > Terry W. Colvin > > Tucson, Arizona ( 10 June to 13 August 2012 ) > > [demime 1.01b removed an attachment of type application/vnd] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2012 08:18:04 -0600 From: robertg@ida.net Subject: Re: skunk-works Roswell Recovery Strategies Terry, Can you send me a copy of the paper? Thanks, Robert Gates > The logistics of recovering the 'alleged' crashed disc near (or far) > from Roswell Army Air Field in 1947, is discussed in this short paper. > The author is Anthony J. Tambini, a former MUFON investigator. He > says his paper has previously been sent to several UFO web sites. > He has given me permission to offer this paper freely. > > It is some 13 pages. I have it in two format, .doc (Microsoft Word) of > 73 kb & as a .odt (Open Office) of 22 kb. Those who do not get the > attachment, on those mailing lists not supporting same, can e-mail me > and request a copy. > > The alleged alien bodies would probably have been air shipped to Wright > Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. This was the military center of aerospace > medicine research in 1947. The alleged disc would probably have been > shipped by rail or road to Sandia Labs in Kirtland Air Force Base, > New Mexico. > > Below is an excerpt: > > QUOTE > Methods of Shipment > Prior to detailing the various methods that could have been used to ship > the > crashed vehicle, it must first be established that the vehicle was shipped > as > one complete unit. Researcher interviews with reported eyewitnesses to the > craft describe a disk shaped object approximately 30 feet in diameter > (report > of the actual shape and size vary) with apparent significant structural > damage. This damage in most instances had been reported as a significant > rip/tear along the outer portion of the craft allowing limited observation > of > the craftb^Ys interior. > With a craft of unknown origin and potentially unknown structural > material > used in its construction, along with the apparent structural damage, it > would > seem logical that any on-site engineering evaluation would most certainly > have > determine that the craft needed to be shipped as a complete assembly and > not > damaged in any way. Most certainly the craft would not have been > disassembled > or cut up in any way for ease of shipment. > With the above criterion established, there would have been three methods > available for shipment: > UNQUOTE > > > Terry > > > > Terry W. Colvin > > Tucson, Arizona ( 10 June to 13 August 2012 ) > > [demime 1.01b removed an attachment of type application/vnd] ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2012 15:39:20 +0700 (GMT+07:00) From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works FW.....U-2 piloting - USAF Intell Analysis - today's Google Earth // Cuban Missile Crisis // Taken from the TLCB forum... U-2 piloting - USAF Intell Analysis - today's Google Earth // Cuban Missile Crisis // B+ on: August 21, 2012, 10:52:40 PM B; Quote I read & post on a forum comprised of former NORAD/USAF Air Defense Command operators, maintainers, comm, etc. The following is taken from recent posts there - because it also applies to operations in SEA. I started the dialogue with a post about the Cuba Missile Crisis - Soviet Order of Battle and Google Earth. I ended with a tongue in cheek comment to a fellow poster "Jerry" who is a retired USAF U-2 pilot who answered me with a good commentary on U-2 ops.... >From time to time we discuss our involvement in the Cuban Missile Crisis. I've found a posting here http://www.flickr.com/photos/martintrolle/3683916412/in/set-72157621696357587/ that combines one guy's visit to Cuba and to some of the 9 former Soviet IRBM missile sites. He combines his experiences, information from a CIA document, and Google Earth into a very fine compilation of Soviet Order of Battle both in Cuba and the Soviet Union (the missile regiment bases of origin). The CIA document is the "Memorandum, prepared for the Executive Committee of the National Security Council, titled 'The Crisis USSR/Cuba, Information as of 0600, 28 October 1962". He tells you which bases he was able to access and which are closed (3 years ago) due to classified military operations. The COMMENTS by several visitors are very interesting. The western 4 sites are the San Cristobal Regiments I, II and III, IV. SS-4 22B042'46.48"N 83B0 2'29.43"W East of there are the Guanajay Regiments I, II and the Soviet Division HQ SS-4 22B055'50.28"N 82B041'16.84"W Further east of there are the Regiments at Sagua la Grande (I, II) SS-4 22B048'31.00"N 80B0 4'16.00"W Much further east of there are the Regiments at Remedios (III) SS-5 22B029'32.00"N 79B032'45.00"W These were the actual regiments with nuclear missiles with your name on it! Bill Peterson P.S. Jerry - does this look familiar from a U-2 perspective? ...... And Jerry replied: Bill, The information you posted doesn't ring any bells for me. Our function as a pilot in the U-2 was to put the aircraft on the course line plotted for us. We were not told anything what ever about what we were trying to do on the mission. We never, never got to see any of our film, it was processed copies were made and it was sent out by T-39 from Barksdale I think. We saw the maps about an hour forty five minutes to two hours before takeoff. They were prepared by our navigators and was drawn on WAC charts. The navigators had a meeting with each new pilot as they came in to the operation and went over how the pilot wanted the course line plotted and preferred timing information was given to the navigator who made notes on how to draw the maps for that individual pilot. We generally got the notice we would be flying about three in the afternoon before the flight the next day. Take off was in the order of about 4 AM, so we took our sleeping pill and went to bed by about five or six in the afternoon. Was roused out about 1 AM to go have our preflight breakfast then to the operations where we got to see the maps drawn for us. Dressed in the pressure suit and got to lie down on a contoured couch for our hour of prebreathing, after that we were kept on oxygen and drove out to our plane, the buddy pilot had done all the preflight checks and as we called it, "cocked the aircraft." the Pilot got in the aircraft and the support people crawled all over us and the airplane getting us strapped in and transferred from the portable oxygen to ships oxygen and communications were made between the pilot and the ground crew, the buddy pilot read the checklist and the flying pilot responded. The canopy was closed and the ground gave the wind up signal for engine start. Then the show was on the road for the next six hours or so. That is what the pilots knew when he took off, nothing. If we knew nothing we could tell nothing I suppose. From the altitude we were flying and looking at the terrain passing by at 420 knots we sure were not able to do any sight seeing. The pilots didn't get in on any of the stuff we gathered, it was all done far further up the line than us. At Barksdale we had one airplane and two pilots. The assignment was for two months, the pilots were offset by one month, so when a new pilot came in the senior one went home to Tucson. The junior pilot moved up to senior and the incoming pilot was junior. I had one two month tour on the Cuban Overflights and three tours to Vietnam. Vietnam was about the same as Barksdale, we had two planes and four pilots. We went over two at a time the tours there were two months and the operation was just like the Cuban overflights. We were told nothing, just follow the line. I never saw any of my missions or heard anything about them. You probably know a lot more about our missions than we the pilots knew. Jerry M. Davis XU2pilot Willi Pete Terry W. Colvin Ladphrao (Bangkok), Thailand Pran Buri (Hua Hin), Thailand http://terrycolvin.freewebsites.com/ [Terry's Fortean & "Work" itty-bitty site] ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 07:08:57 -0700 (PDT) From: John Szalay Subject: skunk-works U-2 downloads from the CIA 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-flig ht-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf & https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publicat ions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf John in Ky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 11:01:45 -0700 (PDT) From: John Szalay Subject: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting caught in a spam filter somewhere ? 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf John in Ky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:10:12 -0700 (PDT) From: John Ault Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Hi --- It made it to my yahoo inbox, and saved it. Didn't check group site. John - --- On Tue, 10/16/12, John Szalay wrote: From: John Szalay Subject: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? To: "Skunkworks" Cc: john.szalay@att.net Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 1:01 PM sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting caught in a spam filter somewhere ? 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf John in Ky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 13:57:59 -0700 From: "mloufek" Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? CIA site: - "404 Not Found" - -----Original Message----- From: John Ault Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 1:10 PM To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Hi --- It made it to my yahoo inbox, and saved it. Didn't check group site. John - --- On Tue, 10/16/12, John Szalay wrote: From: John Szalay Subject: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? To: "Skunkworks" Cc: john.szalay@att.net Date: Tuesday, October 16, 2012, 1:01 PM sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting caught in a spam filter somewhere ? 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf John in Ky ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 22:12:35 -0700 From: Joy Cohn Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this nichrome warm? Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? CIA site: - "404 Not Found" - -=== That's because some email clients mangle the link. To fix them, simply make one link out of both parts. Or try these TinyURLs or and or Joy in CA sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting caught in a spam filter somewhere ? 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 10:37:34 +0100 From: "David" Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? I can hear you way over here in Blighty:) Thanks for sending the links. I've taken a look at both and I can see that they're going to be fascinating. Don't get much post from the SW list anymore, so yours was particularly appreciated. Regards David - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Szalay" To: "Skunkworks" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, October 16, 2012 7:01 PM Subject: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? > sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting > caught > in a spam filter somewhere ? > 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download > > https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli > ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf > > https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica > tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf > > John in Ky ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:17:03 -0700 (PDT) From: John Szalay Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this nichrome warm? Thank you ! You have no idea how that change in the subject line tickled me.. Nichrome, I wonder how many folks seeing that, even recognize the name..or know what it is. Used many many rolls of the stuff over the years at work.Of course, Ben Rich would know.......... John in Ky I - --- On Wed, 10/17/12, Joy Cohn wrote: From: Joy Cohn Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this nichrome warm? To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Date: Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 1:12 AM Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? CIA site: - "404 Not Found" - -=== That's because some email clients mangle the link. To fix them, simply make one link out of both parts. Or try these TinyURLs or and or Joy in CA sent this the other day, and had not seen a post...or is this getting caught in a spam filter somewhere ? 1959 U2 Flight Manual PDF [18.0 MB] a download https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/utility-fli ght-hb-1-Mar-1959.pdf https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publica tions/books-and-monographs/the-cia-and-the-u-2-program-1954-1974/u2.pdf ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 07:19:32 -0700 (PDT) From: John Szalay Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? Thanks, There does not appear to be much good Skunk news these days, but was checking for some other information in the CIA files and happened on those two items.. Glad to share.................... John in Ky - --- On Wed, 10/17/12, David wrote: From: David Subject: Re: skunk-works hello, is this thing on ? To: skunk-works@netwrx1.com Date: Wednesday, October 17, 2012, 5:37 AM I can hear you way over here in Blighty:) Thanks for sending the links. I've taken a look at both and I can see that they're going to be fascinating. Don't get much post from the SW list anymore, so yours was particularly appreciated. Regards David - - ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2013 22:46:26 +0700 (GMT+07:00) From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans & The Hunt for 928 (A-12 spyplane) The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans & The Hunt for 928 (A-12 spyplane) B+ on: Today at 09:33:22 AM B; The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans Date: Jan 4, 2013 12:18 PM The sad case of the German tourists who ventured into Death Valley, got lost and eventually died. Initially, no one even knew for sure what had become of them. Their disabled rental vehicle was eventually found in a remote part of Death Valley, but no trace of the occupants was found. Speculation and rumors abounded as to what might have happened to them. Several years later, a guy became curious and began digging into the story to learn more. He eventually developed a hypothesis as to where they may have wandered and eventually died. He tested his hypothesis by hiking into that back country in search of evidence, which he found, and which was eventually confirmed to be the remains of the missing German tourists. This is his story. It's an excellent account of an investigation - and it's absolutely gripping. http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-v alley-germans/ Bonus nugget - there's an Area 51 connection: "Oh waitb&..Before you gob&..If you enjoyed wasting waaaay too much of your time reading about pointless searches in the desert, you might be interested in the story of my Hunt for 928. Itb^Ys the sorry tale of a search I did a number of years ago for a classified spy plane that crashed on its return to its base at Groom Lake. You knowb&.Area 51. Itb^Ys an older story but still holds up and very few other people have ever been to the crash site since. Hunting weird ****** in the desert can be addictive, and that damn 928 was my gateway drug." http://www.otherhand.org/home-page/area-51-and-other-strange-places/bluefire- main/bluefire/the-hunt-for-928/ Terry W. Colvin Ladphrao (Bangkok), Thailand Pran Buri (Hua Hin), Thailand http://terrycolvin.freewebsites.com/ [Terry's Fortean & "Work" itty-bitty site] ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 10:51:32 -0800 (PST) From: Allen Thomson Subject: skunk-works Why the A-12 became the SR-71 Probably y'all know this already, but I thought it was interesting. http://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1964-68v10/d11 Foreign Relations of the United States, 1964b^S1968 Volume X, National Security Policy, Document 11 ________________________________ 11. Memorandum From Director of Central Intelligence McCone to the Deputy Director of Central Intelligence (Carter)1 Washington, February 10, 1964. Two subjects on which we must reach an agreed policy decision are (a) the surfacing of the Ox and (b) the management of NRO. With reference to the former, I reviewed the b^\visibilityb^] of the Ox on Friday.2 I find that Drs. Wheelon and Maxey3 are agreed that the improved Soviet radar capability makes the Ox visible both to the long range search radar and the radars associated with the surface-to-air missile systems. Therefore it is impossible to fly the Ox over Soviet territory without detection. Originally it was thoughtb^Tand as recently as 18 months agob^Tthat the Soviet radar would not pick up the Ox. The findings of Dr. Wheelon disprove this and this fact bears heavily on the future use of the Ox. If the decision is made by higher authority not to use the Ox for the purposes originally plannedb^Ti.e., clandestine surveillance of the Soviet Unionb^Tthen it must be considered as a b^\quick reactionb^] surveillance asset to be used in times of danger, under circumstances of heightened tension, with the full appreciation of the risks and the provocations. This raises the question of whether in its reconnaissance configuration it should continue as a CIA asset or be turned over to the Air Force. This question must be examined carefully and, quite naturally, the use of the Oxcart over non-Soviet denied territory such as Communist China, Southeast Asia and even Cuba should be taken into consideration. The above problem is one of the important questions associated with surfacing the Oxb^Tprobably4 the most important long term question from the standpoint of CIA, our budget, etc. I feel it must at some time be surfaced because of the military versions. Also we are sure to have an accident or forced landing at a public airport, or a b^\leakb^], which will have the effect of surfacing. Timing is of importance as well as method, and these should be studied and an in-house decision reached for guidance in talking with the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense and Director, NRO and higher authority. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 13:05:37 +0700 (GMT+07:00) From: "Terry W. Colvin" Subject: skunk-works FW.......Re: Any questions for a U-2 pilot? FWD (TLCB Forum) Re: Any questions for a U-2 pilot? B+ Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 11:50:45 PM B; Hi Willi, Please ask Jerry if U-2 missions continue to this day. I know an internet search will turn up some information; however, he has contacts in the active U-2 community. I know U-2s were flying over Iraq in 1999. I saw the messages for mission alert and we supported the USAF detachment at Camp Doha, Kuwait that provided telemetry and SATCOM. Terry Report to moderator 125.26.198.224 Terry W. Colvin / http://terrycolvin.freewebsites.com Ladphrao (Bangkok) / Pran Buri (Hua Hin), Thailand - -------------------------------------------------- Re: Any questions for a U-2 pilot? B+ Reply #2 on: Today at 12:45:42 PM B; My name is Steve Umland. I was a photo interpreter for the USAF starting with Task Force Alpha NKP 1969-1970. Which base did he fly out of? Where was film processed. I moved from NKP when we had the RF-4C's out of Udorn and went to the 67th Recon at Yokota AB Japan then on to 548th at Hickham. Don't remember seeing U2 film at NKP but might have at the 67th. 548th was SR-71 and sattelite. Steve Umland TFA, NKP 1969-1970 - ------------------ Re: Any questions for a U-2 pilot? B+ Reply #3 on: Today at 04:32:33 PM B; Terry & Steve, It's 1630 and Jerry just left, after 6 straight hours of mutual "debriefing". The SEA information he gave was this: In 196-1967 he had two tours of U-2 duty at Bien Hoa in Vietnam. Because of the unique nature of their work they have different flying conditions, hours, schedules and tour lenghts - so don't assume "tours" are like our tours. The pilots and a few flying staff officers are housed in a U-2 pilot trailer and they (and their Ops bldg) were in a separate physical location with special security, guards, etc. They flew out of Bien Hoa up over northern South Vietnam, Laos and had east-west orbits over the PDJ, for example. Later, in his second tour, the missions were flown in that area and also further north. They were able to fly meandering routes all over Laos. But they did avoid North Vietnam because of the SAM problem. We talked at some length about Radar Bomb Scoring units in SAC, and how that was used so successfully with B-52 Arc Light operations in Vietnam. We also talked about Lima Site 85 in that regard. As a former SAC B-47 pilot he was very familiar with all of that. In those days everything they did was actual film photography. They would recover at Bien Hoa and the film would be sent to the recce tech in Saigon. >From there it was processed, copied and sent to Guam for analysis and further distribution. As a U-2 pilot they had little or no knowledge of the technical collection means or processing or intell value. We talked about Buffalo Hunter drones + C-130 ops too. He didn't talk about U-2 SIGINT missions, although I referred to several. As time and technology progressed, and capabilities evolved, the collection and download method changed to digital with the ground site being Beale AFB, CA. (There are other capabilities but that's another story not for publication here.) Jerry said that the last information he had was from a national reunion in 2005 marking 50 years of U-2 Ops. The U-2 has been used in support of combat ops/combat readiness in Afghanistan and also in Korea. He isn't personally aware of any other "currrent ops". But he did say at one time the Global Hawk was thought of as a U-2 replacement - but GH is going to the Guard and the U-2 is expected to rermain in service until 2023. He has some great photos, and a very good newspaper story with photos covering the ops at Tuscon and Jerry by name - 1965. They referred to it as the WU-2 and the weather recon was a cover story. Jerry said "to a man, U-2 pilots revere Francis Gary Powers as a great U-2 pilot". He was not shot down. To clarify, briefly, a highly technical subject: there are severe aircraft buffeting effects caused by stall speed - and conversely by Mach buffeting effects. The pilots make some settings and then fly a small "window" of altitude and airspeed. As the fuel is used the airplane rises to higher altituides, apprroaching 62-72,000'. If you lose your position inside the window and approach either the higher or lower parameter of eith Mach number or stall speed the buffeting can cause a stall and loss of control. In a few moments that produces either a nose dive toward earth or a deadly flat spin. There was no ejection seat. Powers, having had many, many SA-2's fired at him, had one go off near enough to cause a blast effect. That forced the plane to bank, and that effected the "window" because it exceeded the pre-set angle of bank limits. He went into a flat spin. As he reached 40,000 feet and falling like a rock he climbed out of the cockpit and jumped. There was an "armed detonator switch with a safeguard on it near the right window pane". and the pilot is supposed to break a wire that lets the switch complete a circuit which creates a detonation of an onboard bomb. That should destroy the aircraft within 20 seconds. Powers apparently decided he needed to get out fast, did not pull the wire and break the switch limit control, thus the detonation never ocurred. kruschev got a lot of U-2 parts as a result. Powers hit the ground and was captured before he could take his cyanide. But he was not "shot down" per se by a SAM nor a MiG. We covered a lot of ground - 50+ years in 6 hours. Jerry always says the same thing after we talk: he is totally amazed at how many people and units and types of facilities were involved in flight following and safeguarding his safety. To them it was pre-flight, take off, fly the WAC Chart from Point A to B and go home. It was a great day! Willi Pete Terry W. Colvin Ladphrao (Bangkok), Thailand Pran Buri (Hua Hin), Thailand http://terrycolvin.freewebsites.com/ [Terry's Fortean & "Work" itty-bitty site] ------------------------------ End of skunk-works-digest V16 #16 ********************************* To subscribe to skunk-works-digest, send the command: subscribe skunk-works-digest in the body of a message to "majordomo@netwrx1.com". 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