From skunk-works-request@netwrx1.org Mon Feb 10 17:18:35 2014 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:13:44 From: skunk-works-request@netwrx1.org Reply-To: skunk-works@netwrx1.org To: skunk-works@netwrx1.org Subject: skunk-works Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 Send skunk-works mailing list submissions to skunk-works@netwrx1.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://eagle.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunk-works or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to skunk-works-request@netwrx1.org You can reach the person managing the list at skunk-works-owner@netwrx1.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of skunk-works digest..." Today's Topics: 1. The Oxcart Story 1971 (George de Peyster) 2. Re: Skunk Works List Setup (Andreas Gehrs-Pahl) 3. Re: Skunk Works List Setup (George Kasica) 4. unsubscribe (Carroll, David T SIK) 5. Email Address Privacy etc. (George Kasica) 6. Re: Skunk Works List Setup (Andreas Gehrs-Pahl) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:11:37 -0800 From: George de Peyster To: skunk-works@netwrx1.org Cc: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Subject: [skunk-works] The Oxcart Story 1971 Message-ID: <76D16655-A5A0-4628-A06A-E3EA54FFF3A8@sonic.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii http://www.governmentattic.org/10docs/CIA-SII-theOXCARTstory_1971.pdf If you forward this message, please delete the forwarding history, which includes my e-mail address and name. Doing so is a courtesy to me and others who may not wish to have their names and/or e-mail addresses sent all over! Erasing the history helps prevent Spammers from mining addresses, to send junk and viruses. Thank you. ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:37:34 -0500 From: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl To: Skunk Works List Subject: Re: [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Message-ID: <1r479neh2nje$.18dkfqvasxxlu$.dlg@40tude.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George, >OK...it's been shortened even further to skunk-works >I can't go less than that it needs some type of a description. I think you misunderstood me here. Leaving the description of the list as "Skunk-works Discussion List" (or the longer version) was just fine. But the "From:" header of every skunk works list email showed: "From: Skunk-works Discussion List " which was the issue. This problem has been fixed now. Any description, like "Skunk Works Discussion List" or what ever you would like to use, would be just fine with me. >Again why you can't filter based on the [skunk-works] in the subject >confuses me. I can filter based on the subjects just fine, and having [skunk-works] in the subject line is great! I was just concerned about the "From:" header, and sorting by [Author] in the web interface. >As to the digests - I'm not sure what you mean by broken they what you're >looking at are Archives not digests in a compressed archive form - if you >want to see them individually you'll need to get the file and uncompressed >it. I can't change that behavior that's what it does for archives. Digests >are different thing than achieves which is what you're looking at. There are individual Digests -- one or more a day, depending on the number of posts -- that are numbered "Vol 1, Issue 1" through (at this point) "Vol 1, Issue 4". The website makes it appear as if one could download those Digests, which isn't the case, but also isn't a major problem, per se. But if you download the compressed archive from the "Downloadable version" link on the web site, you get a compressed GZip file named "2014.txt.gz". This file contains a compressed file named "2014.txt", which actually is another GZip file, rather than the expected text file. If you decompress the file, rename its contents to something like "2014txt.gz" and decompress the contained file, which again is named "2014.txt", you will finally get the actual archive text file. I don't think that this is the intended behavior, though. Also, even though this text file is similar to the Digest emails that are sent out, it (currently) only contains the first four list emails -- but none of the other 16+ posts that are available on the web site and have already been sent in four+ separate Digests. I just hoped that there would be something similar to the archive of the old Digests -- most of which are still available on the web site address that was mentioned in your original subscription email (at: http://skunk-works-digest.netwrx1.org). Starting with the September 2013 Digests, none of the Skunk Works Digests are apparently available for download, anywhere. If you missed one (or more) of the Digest emails -- for whatever reason -- there is no way to get a copy of them from a web site, which I missed. But because all the posts are now individually available on the web site, I don't think that this is much of an issue anymore. The only problem about having all the posts on the web site, might be the email-harvesting issue. Maybe there is a setting to completely remove all email addresses from the web site copies, rather than just replacing the "@" symbol in email addresses with the text " at ", even though that is already a step in the right direction. I hope this clarifies my concerns to your satisfaction. Thanks again for fixing the "From:" headers, Andreas -- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software, LLC phone: (989) 723-9927 email: Andreas.GP@Charter.net web: http://www.Aerospace-History.net ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:06:46 +0000 From: George Kasica To: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl , Skunk Works List Subject: Re: [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" OK Editing out here or this one message is going to make its own digest soon :) >I think you misunderstood me here. Leaving the description of the list as OK We have the From issue fixed - my misunderstanding. Sorry. >I can filter based on the subjects just fine, and having [skunk-works] in >the subject line is great! I was just concerned about the "From:" header, >and sorting by [Author] in the web interface. See above - fixed. >There are individual Digests -- one or more a day, depending on the number >of posts -- that are numbered "Vol 1, Issue 1" through (at this point) >"Vol 1, Issue 4". The website makes it appear as if one could download >those Digests, which isn't the case, but also isn't a major problem, per se. Correct no your cannot download digests that I'm aware of as they are just individual messages like any other. >the actual archive text file. I don't think that this is the intended >behavior, though. Actually its working as designed. The idea being that you can use the web interface to browse through the archive by date, author, thread, etc as it shows below they archive. If you want the whole thing you download and uncompress it. >Also, even though this text file is similar to the Digest emails that are >sent out, it (currently) only contains the first four list emails -- but >none of the other 16+ posts that are available on the web site and have That's odd when I look at it here I see (I used by Thread) http://eagle.netwrx1.org/pipermail/skunk-works/ 2014 Archives by thread Messages sorted by: [ subject ] [ author ] [ date ] More info on this list... Starting: Sun Feb 9 18:50:22 CST 2014 Ending: Mon Feb 10 14:37:34 CST 2014 Messages: 21 [skunk-works] Test message with content settings Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Test message with content settings Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Welcome to the new home of skunk-works Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Test message with content settings Discussion of interest to Lockheed Advanced Development Company (LADC), also known as the Skunk Works, as our list name suggests. [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Skunk-works Discussion List [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Andreas Gehrs-Pahl [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Andreas Gehrs-Pahl [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup George Kasica [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup George Kasica [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Andreas Gehrs-Pahl [skunk-works] The Oxcart Story 1971 George de Peyster Last message date: Mon Feb 10 14:37:34 CST 2014 Archived on: Mon Feb 10 14:37:47 CST 2014 Messages sorted by: [ subject ] [ author ] [ date ] >already been sent in four+ separate Digests. I just hoped that there would >be something similar to the archive of the old Digests -- most of which are >still available on the web site address that was mentioned in your original >subscription email (at: http://skunk-works-digest.netwrx1.org). So its all there up to date. >Starting with the September 2013 Digests, none of the Skunk Works Digests >are apparently available for download, anywhere. If you missed one (or more) As far as I can tell in looking at the old software and my email we didn't generate enough traffic to make one....I keep EVERYTHING here and I don't see one so I don't think we made one. >The only problem about having all the posts on the web site, might be the >email-harvesting issue. Maybe there is a setting to completely remove all The list is only available to members. >I hope this clarifies my concerns to your satisfaction. Yes, hopefully I've answered OK al Thanks again for fixing the "From:" headers, Andreas -- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software, LLC phone: (989) 723-9927 email: Andreas.GP@Charter.net web: http://www.Aerospace-History.net _______________________________________________ skunk-works mailing list skunk-works@netwrx1.org http://eagle.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunk-works ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 18:33:59 +0000 From: "Carroll, David T SIK" To: "'skunk-works@netwrx1.org'" Subject: [skunk-works] unsubscribe Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: skunk-works-bounces@netwrx1.org [mailto:skunk-works-bounces@netwrx1.org] On Behalf Of Skunk-works Discussion List Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 1:19 PM To: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Cc: skunk-works@netwrx1.org Subject: [External] Re: [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Note - I'm checking with Mailman support to see if we can support this somehow without major effort. George -----Original Message----- From: George Kasica Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 12:10 PM To: 'Andreas Gehrs-Pahl' Cc: 'skunk-works@netwrx1.org' Subject: RE: Skunk Works List Setup You can't get both a regular AND a digest to the same address and you can't post to the digest list obviously. I'm seeing you post here on list it may just take a moment to get to you. George -----Original Message----- From: mailman-bounces@eagle.netwrx1.org [mailto:mailman-bounces@eagle.netwrx1.org] On Behalf Of Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 11:48 AM To: George Kasica Subject: Re: Skunk Works List Setup George, My email to the list didn't go through for some reason. I didn't get a copy from the list and it didn't show up on the archive web site, either. Could you check if there are any issues with my subscription settings? The following is a copy of the email that I sent a few minutes ago: Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:29:04 From: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl To: Skunk Works List Subject: Re: Skunk Works List Setup I selected to (also) get the Digest, which seems to have disabled the sending of the individual emails. Is there (still) an option to get both, as before? For now, I have disabled the Digest option, to see how the individual emails look. So this email is being sent to the list, and I should receive a copy, too. Thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software, LLC phone: (989) 723-9927 email: Andreas.GP@Charter.net web: http://www.Aerospace-History.net ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 21:20:11 +0000 From: George Kasica To: "skunk-works@netwrx1.org" Subject: [skunk-works] Email Address Privacy etc. Message-ID: <0952efbffb30412584f70402d820f0da@BL2PR05MB177.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Quick short message on the address and privacy issues: This list is membership only in terms of seeing its contents, etc. so unless you are a member you can't post, read, etc. HOWEVER, the Internet is by nature a public medium and I'm not going to try to be bold or arrogant enough to say that noone will ever get email addresses or content out of the list, postings, digests or archives. In the last almost 20 years of Digests it has always been a publicly accessible area as many people go to it for referenced etc. as there is info here that is simply nowhere else and it still is and its routinely indexed and scanned by things like Google, etc. Just do a search for Skunk-works. It was that way when I took this list over way back when. Is there a way to scrub or mask e-mail addresses yes, we set FROM to be skunk-works@netwrx1.org or similar which is what I had done here a short time ago to address someone's privacy concerns, yet I was immediately told (by the same person) that they wanted to see the poster's real email....so it's set back.... You can't have it both ways folks - either you deal with the privacy issue of real addressing or you get a generic from address. As to scrubbing or modifying the addresses the software as far as I can find out from support doesn't support that level of control, most mailing list software doesn't simply because it is designed as a public discussion medium. If you're that concerned about privacy the long and short of it is you probably shouldn't be on a mailing list then as it's by no means guaranteed secure. George ? ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2014 17:13:31 -0500 From: Andreas Gehrs-Pahl To: Skunk Works List Subject: Re: [skunk-works] Skunk Works List Setup Message-ID: <4mwgu5iu3v1h.1u8x76n2e4o1v$.dlg@40tude.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" George, There are apparently still a couple more misunderstandings here. :-) 1) The (downloadable) Digest -- a nice to have feature: >Correct no your cannot download digests that I'm aware of as they are >just individual messages like any other. But they could be saved and made available for download. I have a pretty much complete archive of all the digests from the beginning. >So its all there up to date. No, the Digests on the web site start with "v2.n001" and end with number "v16.n018", which was Volume 16, Number 018, dated Saturday, May 11, 2013. After that, another 10 (at least) Digests were emailed, named only by the date that they were sent out: * 2013-09-23 * 2013-09-24 * 2013-09-25 * 2013-11-05 * 2013-11-08 * 2013-11-17 * 2013-11-18 * 2013-12-11 * 2014-01-13 * 2014-02-08 And since then, there were at least four more digests in the last two days, but I missed the first one, named Vol. 1, Issue 1, as I wasn't subscribed to the Digests anymore. As I said before, it would be nice to have those available for download, but this isn't a real big issue, as now all the individual post are already available through the web site. 2) The Downloadable Version: "[ Gzip'd Text 2 KB ]" is not working right: >>I don't think that this is the intended behavior, though. >Actually its working as designed. The idea being that you can use the web >interface to browse through the archive by date, author, thread, etc as it >shows below they archive. If you want the whole thing you download and >uncompress it. Have you tried to download it? You will get a compressed file that contains another (wrongly named) compressed file, which (finally) contains a text file. Not only is the double-compressing probably not intended, but only (the first) 4 posts can be downloaded this way, even though there are currently many more -- 24 or more -- available individually on the web site. 3) Privacy and Email Addresses: Even though the email list is private, the web version is available to everyone. Removing the names and email address from the email list makes it pretty much impossible to tell who send an email and makes it impossible to email someone directly. Doing this was a terrible idea, and I can't imagine anyone requesting this. I had already asked last September when that change was introduced to not replace the email addresses, but that request was ignored. At least the original names were still there, so it was possible to find the corresponding email addresses in previous emails, when required. But because the web version is public, it might actually be a good idea to remove the email addresses -- but not the sender's names -- from the web pages. The software already does something similar, namely changing all email addresses to show " at " instead of the "@" symbol. As this kind of feature already exists, it isn't unreasonable to wonder if a similar feature for removing the entire email address also exist. But if that feature isn't available, then that isn't a big problem either, I suppose. Anyway, if anyone received the Volume 1, Issue 1 Digest in the last couple of days, I would very much appreciate it, if that someone would forward this email to me, so I can keep my digest archive complete. Thanks, Andreas -- Andreas Gehrs-Pahl Absolute Software, LLC phone: (989) 723-9927 email: Andreas.GP@Charter.net web: http://www.Aerospace-History.net ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ skunk-works mailing list skunk-works@netwrx1.org http://eagle.netwrx1.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/skunk-works End of skunk-works Digest, Vol 18, Issue 5 ******************************************